1 Million 360s a Month By Year's End

GameDailyBiz reports that Microsoft plans to have one million 360's produced a month by the end of the year. From the article: "As has been previously reported Xbox 360 production and availability has already been significantly increased in recent weeks. In the period through Microsoft's fiscal year ending in June, the company expects to pump out 2 to 3 times the number of units it did previously. With Sony's PlayStation 3 launching this November across the globe, Microsoft still has a window of opportunity during which it can extend its lead in the next-gen race considerably."

Comments

That's no moon...

[voice_of_all_reason]

It's an XBOX Manufacturing station...

"the company"

[gabebear]

The quote in the abstract is quote misleading. Mr. Lin from the Wistron company said it; Wistron makes some of the 360's for Microsoft.

Smoke And Mirrors

[mikeisme77]

Just ramping up production won't mean more people buying them. Maybe some none sports/FPS games would help things out. Or a game that you can't buy for $10 less on the older generation (might not be as pretty, but it's $10 less and is just as fun). Lower system price would be nice too, as only the early adopters (most of which have their 360 already) are willing to pay $400+ for a system with little original content.

1 million per month?

[Generic Guy]

At one million per month, it sounds like they're going from terrible undersupply to terrible oversupply.

Re:1 million per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no 'undersupply' of 360s :)

360s have been in stock in all major US retailers since late February.

One just has to look at the 360 numbers:

Microsoft has been INCREASING production of 360s over the past few months.

However, monthly sales of 360s have been DECREASING over the past few months.

There just isn't much demand for the system outside of the existing hardcore Xbox demographic. Microsoft is on track to sell less than three million 360s this year.

Re:1 million per month?

[Anonymous Coward]

Any refrences to support this claim? Not saying it's wrong, but I can't find any sales figures.

Re:1 million per month?

[rehtonAesoohC]

Why would anyone care? In the consumer driven market, oversupply would mean the cost of an individual unit would decrease. Combine an overage of product with the competition of the PS3, and prices would fall even more. Consumers would be the ones who would make out like bandits here, so why is anyone complaining?

Re:1 million per month?

[iainl]

Actually, the NPD numbers I saw said 161k units for the US in February, 192k in March. So I'm not seeing a drop month-on-month at all.

Re:1 million per month?

[LordVader717]

Not necessarily. If the things aren't selling, retailers will stop buying systems. Microsoft could then try to lower the price to make it more attractive to the consumer, or if the retailers can't get rid of "them damn bricks", they could dump them at dirt-cheap prices.

It isn't a question of supply and demand when you have one supplier whose main interest isn't in making profits on the machine.

Re:1 million per month?

[brokeninside]

According to NPD March Game Sales Specifics Added, the PS2 is still outselling the XBOX 360:

on the hardware front, it was revealed that the Xbox 360 sold through just under 200,000 copies in North America in March, showing the continued shortages of the console, allegedly now ameliorated. Elsewhere, the PlayStation 2 still led the way with almost 275,000 sales, and the Xbox (just under 85,000) and GameCube (just under 65,000) brought up the rear.

This compares to 160k XBOX 360s sold in Februrary according to February game sales continue slide:

According to industry sources, more than 160,000 Xbox 360s were sold in February. That compares to more than 300,000 PlayStation 2's, more than 170,000 PlayStation Portables, and over 150,000 Nintendo DS units sold during the month of February.

The only really interesting number to me is that almost six months after the launch of the 360, PS2s are still moving off the shelves faster than 360s. But before one reads to much into that, it ought to be recognized that the 360 hasn't been introduced into all markets while the PS2 has pretty much gone into every geographic area where it will be sold. Hence when the March numbers were released, which included Australia for the first time, it wasn't the same comparison as for February. The flip side of that fact, though, is that XBOX sales in existing markets may have declined in March. I don't know how many units were sold in Australia and other new markets that ought to be subtracted from the 200k March figure to compare to the 160k Feb figure.

In any case, better numbers won't really be availible next year. IMO, the key numbers to watch for (assuming Revolution and PS2 launches this fall) will be the Q4 2006 reports. Although, it will be significant if the PS2 continues to outsell the 360 in Q2 and Q3 of 2006.

Re:1 million per month?

[Nightspirit]

Really? Because the best buy here in az checked the computers and there is not a single 360 at any best buy in arizona. Walmart and target said the same. So where are these 360s, Japan?

Re:1 million per month?

[ivan256]

So where are these 360s

Apparently, stacked in an enormous pyramid on the floor at BestBuy in Marlboro, MA.

Re:1 million per month?

[ivan256]

Oh, you mean those retarded bundles that for the most part try to con you in to buying the core system and some games you probably don't want?

Nope, just the "premium" system for $399.

Here order your damned Xbox, you can have it the day after tomorrow and quit your bitching... Oh, what's that you say? You already have one, or you wouldn't be blathering on like a fanboy? Where'd you get it? I thought there was a shortage?

Re:1 million per month?

[YU Nicks NE Way]

You mean the one on that page which is marked "coming soon"? The one that's, you know, like, out of stock?

Re:1 million per month?

[MHolmesIV]

I'm not surprised the PS2 is selling more than the 360, it's _half the price_ of the core system.

In fact, I'm impressed that the 360 is making the inroads it's making, if you compare the shares from February to March, the numbers go from 34% of the combined 360/PS2 sales to 42% of the combined sales. And the PS2 absolute numbers are trending down. That's a very good trend for a console that costs twice as much at a minimum.

When you count both XBox and 360 sales, they outperformed the PS2 last month. While you may consider this irrelevant, it's not, since the development tools and libraries on the two boxes are similar, so it's not that much extra work to target both (as a number of games have done, Ghost Recon, for one). In that way, you mitigate the risk of releasing on a new console with the established user base of the old one. That will make companies more likely to support the 360, and more support means more games, more games means more users etc.

Will the PS3 have the same advantages? I don't know. Initial reports from game developers indicate that the development environment is quite different, which requires all new skillsets, and therefore more risk for a company supporting the platform. But that's just initial reports. The toolset may change.

Re:1 million per month?

[iainl]

Good to see your sources agree with mine, then.

The launch of the 360 in Australia is a red herring, though - NPD numbers only cover US sales.

Re:1 million per month?

[Nightspirit]

That was awesome :)

How many 360's sold to date?

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Increasing the rate of production is all well and good, but how big is the installed base for 360 right now, and how big do they expect it to be by the time PS3 comes out?

I'm especially curious about non-US markets here. Has the 360 been selling ANY units in Japan? Last I heard, the answer was no; what happens if we have the 360 as the runaway winner of this console generation here in the States, but the PS3 or Revolution annihilates it in Japan? It would be kind of a weird dichotomy...

Re:How many 360's sold to date?

[Anonymous Coward]

The 360 has sold a little under 1.5 million worldwide so far.

About 100k in Japan.
About 800k in the US.
About 500k in Europe.

The 360 has been selling around thousand or so a week in Japan. It has been selling less than the GameCube over there.

"what happens if we have the 360 as the runaway winner of this console generation here in the States"

That just isn't going to happen. The 360 is the worst selling console since the 3DO; even the first Xbox and Dreamcast sold significantly better.

Most troubling for the 360 is it appears to be selling less and less each month.

Re:How many 360's sold to date?

[LearningHard]

Well, I wouldn't be too worried about Japan since they are a very small market especially compared to Europe and the United States. I know that the local Japanophiles would want you to believe they are the end all be all but unfortunately they aren't especially from the consumer side.

Re:How many 360's sold to date?

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

Just to clarify, those are basically the number announced for units sold between the launch (Nov 22nd) and Dec 31st '05. We probably won't get another set of reliable numbers until thier next quarterly report.

The numbers above are basically correct (but I think the number was 900k in North America), but just an thought I'd add in the date range that those were for as it could easily be mis-understood to represent more current numbers (which aren't yet available).

Re:How many 360's sold to date?

[westlake]

It would be kind of a weird dichotomy...

It would be the norm.

Exporting culture, whether it be in the form of a game, a book, a movie, or a high-tech gadget is difficult.

Re:How many 360's sold to date?

[sexyrexy]

US population - 300 million Japan population - 128 million Europe population - 705 million Now, if the US has twice as many technologically savvy people as Europe, and Japan has twice as many as the US (a rough estimate, but rather likely) then when looking at those sales numbers again, I don't think the argument of market size has anything to do with the discussion.

Re:How many 360's sold to date?

[shoptroll]

Granted this is from a Nintendo fan-site, but the 360 is only beating out the GCN in terms of sales by ~700 units. At the same time it's being soundly trounced by the the Game Boy Micro, Game Boy SP, and is getting a very large beat down by the PS2.

http://www.nintendojo.com/editorials/view_item.php ?1145322602

Unfortunately, they don't say where the stats come from, but I'm sure they can easily be found on the net (I just can't remember what company usually reports the Japanese sales figures)

Re:How many 360's sold to date?

[DeadScreenSky]

It's the size of the gaming market that matters, though, not some bizarre standard of technological savvy. I don't have the exact numbers handy, but Japan has been smaller than the US for some time (I believe since the PS1 era) and Europe is now larger too. More importantly the Japanese games market is basically shrinking and has been since the PS1. The same is not true of the US and especially Europe, which is growing rapidly.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market

[mikeisme77]

When you decide to build from commodity parts, you're deciding to sacrifice performance for development speed. Maybe the XBox 360 won't be as good as the PS3, but it will certainly be more available and cheaper than it. Which is the same reason Nintendo's "underpowered" system shouldn't be ignored. They're parts are even more readily available than those in the 360 (with the possible exception of the controllers) so they should be able to roll them out quickly right out of the gate and with some EXCELLENT first party titles. If they can just get Konami, Square Enix, Capcom, et al to fully commit to at least one launch game (or soon after launch) than they may be able to reverse their recent console fortunes.

Re:November?

[Ewan]

You read it, the story was widely reported, but it wasn't true, just another internet rumour.

Sony have committed to a worldwide release in November 2006.

Ewan
ButtonBashers.com

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market

[gabebear]

The 360 seems to have just about as many custom parts as the PS3. The 360's CPU and GPU are custom designed just for the 360 and the 10MB EDRAM is hardly a commodity part. The 360 even uses some funky proprietary wireless signal instead of bluetooth(like the PS3).

If you discount the Blu-Ray drive then the PS3 will probably use less custom parts than the 360.

Maybe not

[OSS_ilation]

I have a roommate who went back to WoW a week after plunking down more than $600 for a 360 and 3 games. Maybe Mr. Lin was talking about 1 million units total.

Great! I wonder if anyone will buy them...

[Schezar]

There is no more shortage, and there hasn't been for some time. I see Xbox360s for sale at standard retail price, both the "value" edition and the full one, all over. Anyone who wants one can just go pick one up.

I wonder how many people who don't already have an Xbox360 are actually going to buy one in the near future. Microsoft likes to spin this as though they're producing more units to cover the huge demand and reduce shortages, but said shortages are now nothing more than an illusion. I honestly believe that most everyone who wants one already has one or can't really afford one.

It's funny how, despite all this, I still think that Sony is in a worse position than Microsoft in this round of the console "wars."

360s

[the computer guy nex]

"I'm especially curious about non-US markets here. Has the 360 been selling ANY units in Japan? Last I heard, the answer was no; what happens if we have the 360 as the runaway winner of this console generation here in the States, but the PS3 or Revolution annihilates it in Japan? It would be kind of a weird dichotomy..."

Microsoft didn't even run one commercial or print ad for the 360 in Japan prior to launch. That is a good indicator of what MS thinks of the Japanese market.

MS would be perfectly happy of dominating the States (which it might the way the PS3 is going) and losing in Japan.

Friend of mine had to stand in a line of over 40 people for 8 hours a month after launch to get a console and they are still very rare to find on shelves. The demand for this product is unreal.

Re:360s

[PhoenixFlare]

MS would be perfectly happy of dominating the States (which it might the way the PS3 is going) and losing in Japan.

Based on their past performance - dead last in Japan, almost neck-and-neck with the Gamecube in the US, and losing billions of dollars....I wouldn't get your hopes up quite yet.

Friend of mine had to stand in a line of over 40 people for 8 hours a month after launch to get a console and they are still very rare to find on shelves. The demand for this product is unreal.

A whopping 40 people, and the wait was still 8 hours? I'm curious how that indicates unreal demand more than it indicates a horrible supply problem.

Re:360s

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

and losing billions of dollars

Just as a bit of a reality check, the last good numbers availble were through Dec 31, 2005 when they had sold 1.5 million 360s. Assuming that by "billions" you meant at least 2 billion they would have to be losing at least $1,333 per machine and getting no roalties on any games.

Re:360s

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

If folks in whatever backwards town you live in were lining up to buy 360s, why the hell were thousands of them sitting on shelves across the Pacific?

What is "Because the supply and the demand may vary based on geographic location", Alex?

Re:360s

[PhoenixFlare]

Just as a bit of a reality check, you could also realize that I was referring to past performance with that line, i.e the original XBox.

Re:360s

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

"through Dec 31, 2005 when they had sold 1.5 million 360"

That claim by Microsoft has already been debunked.

I would be very interested to see this debunking! Was it some blogger or something who just make the statements to that means it debunked? ;-) Below is a quote from the MS 2006 Q2 (period ending 12/31/2005) Form 10-Q SEC filing. Ask your accountant how likely it is that MS would lie about those numbers on a SEC filing ;-) Since SOX has been enacted these things are taken VERY seriously and could result in criminal charges against Ballmer (who signed of the the filing)!

Home and Entertainment revenue increased during the second quarter of fiscal year 2006 primarily due to an increase in Xbox revenue of $125 million or 12%. Xbox revenue increased mainly due to the launch of Xbox 360. 1.5 million Xbox 360 console units shipped,

Re:360s

[romrunning]

No standing in line @ Costco now... perhaps the shortage was to supply enough units to Costco/Sam's.

Re:360s

[scot4875]

Another reality check -- not only was the original poster referring to the XBox, not the XBox 360, but you seem to forget that there are other costs associated with selling these machines.

Advertising in every medium possible so that they can give potential customers the impression (illusion) that your product is cool isn't free. Paid award shows (informercials for people too stupid to realize they're watching an infomercial) on SpikeTV and MTV aren't free. They have to ship the boxes from the factories (though, admittedly, that might be included in the cost of manufacturing). They have to pay management types like the ex-Seamus Blackley tons of money to do whatever it is they do. They have to pay R&D costs, licensing fees for any technology they don't own (DVD playback), and god knows what else.

There are tons of ways to lose money besides selling something at a loss.

--Jeremy

Re:360s

[CaymanIslandCarpedie]

Since the entire thread was discussing the 360 I'd assumed he was talking about the 360 since he didn't say otherwise. My bad I guess.

My problem is all the non-sense numbers that get tossed around here. If I'd been able to guess that he was referencing a completely different product line than the one being discussed, than I wouldn't have been so bothers because by looking at P&L breakdowns in SEC filings I can at least see that it isn't complete gibberish. However, based on my false assumption that the numbers he was quoting were trying to be relevant to the conversation (360) I just haven't seen any numbers to come close to supporting such figures. Thus, I pointed out a simple breakdown of what he was saying would mean (in simple terms).

Of course there are other costs, but until you can quantify those costs your just another poster pulling numbers out of their ass. That's my point and my issue! If you want to make such statements have the numbers to back them up! For a separate product line than is being discussed, yes those numbers are in line. For the product we ARE discussing, I've seen no numbers to suggest such a thing so I was nicely trying to point out for him what he was saying. Since I don't have the numbers, I cannot do a complete breakdown to prove him wrong but my "reality check" numbers sure make the claim (I assumed he was trying to make) look very suspect. That's all I was trying to say.

Re:360s

[rtb61]

That of course is typical microsoft, 1.5 million shipped does not mean 1.5 million sold, even when it is sold to a retailer it is not really sold in terms of licence revenues and profit, rather than hardware sales and losses, until the end user actually buys it and starts buying games (exacly how many games does microsoft need to sell per console to generate a profit?).

I wonder if they are going to start that whole internal sales nonsence next, where microsoft manufacturing sells it to microsoft importing who then sells it to microsoft wholesaling who then sells it to the retailers and voila microsoft marketing can instantly triple it's sales (modern marketing it's all in the fine print).

Re:360s

[PhoenixFlare]

I hate to be a jerk, but christ, I can only take so much idiocy.

Since the entire thread was discussing the 360 I'd assumed he was talking about the 360 since he didn't say otherwise. My bad I guess.

If I'd been able to guess that he was referencing a completely different product line than the one being discussed,

However, based on my false assumption that the numbers he was quoting were trying to be relevant to the conversation (360)

What part of "past performance" and mention of competing against the Gamecube was so hard to understand? Should I have made it all blinking in capital bold letters with asterisks around it, instead of assuming you had basic reading comprehension skills?

Of course there are other costs, but until you can quantify those costs your just another poster pulling numbers out of their ass. That's my point and my issue! If you want to make such statements have the numbers to back them up!

because by looking at P&L breakdowns in SEC filings I can at least see that it isn't complete gibberish.

Google "xbox loss 4 billion". Take your pick. Notice how all the articles refer to the original XBox in the past, just like I did. Hell, one of the first 10 results is even a Slashdot story, and there's a Register story on the second page of the results with a direct link to a 10-Q form showing some of the loss.

For the product we ARE discussing, I've seen no numbers to suggest such a thing so I was nicely trying to point out for him what he was saying.

Amazing! I haven't seen anything saying that Microsoft had $4 billion+ lost on the 360 either! Maybe that's why I didn't even say that in the first place?

Since I don't have the numbers, I cannot do a complete breakdown to prove him wrong but my "reality check" numbers sure make the claim (I assumed he was trying to make) look very suspect

Extra double-plus good for you, proving me wrong on a claim I didn't (and wouldn't) even make, since I know how to do basic math and all. Thanks for having such an insulting opinion of my intelligence, too.

My point was that based on the past performance and gigantic monetary losses of the ***first*** XBox, one should not expect the 360 to automatically be a smashing success.

Re:Great! I wonder if anyone will buy them...

[emerrill]

While I do agree that this is hype from MS, and if they produce 1mil/month, they are going to need alot of warehouse space...

The shortage still exists in localities. In my area, the only the only 2 places that carry them (walmart and shopko) are barely getting them. Shopko hasnt had any in months, and walmart gets maybe 5-10 a month, and they sell w/in a day or 2 of receiving them.

Re:November?

[elrous0]

Sony have committed to a worldwide release in November 2006.

I don't buy that for a second.

Mark my words:

2007 (probably not even *EARLY* 2007)

-Eric

Re:November?

[Ewan]

You might be right, but they have been very vocal with their statements about November. Which just means they'll look very stupid if it does slip into Feb/March.

More likely I suspect they'll put out a token amount in Europe so they can claim a worldwide release and spoil the Xbox 360 christmas sales with "Wait until January for more PS3's" hype, then not ship any more until March..

They tried to crack Japan's market. And failed.

[ianscot]

MS meant the new box to make inroads in Japan. They did advertise, that's just wrong anecdotal information on your part. The first XBox died in Japan and they wanted to do something to break into that market, no question.

"Since the launch of the original Xbox in 2002, there was one thing that we have consistently said: Microsoft will inevitably succeed in Japan."
-- Takahashi Sensui, Microsoft Japan's Xbox division manager

From this Boston.com article:

"A major part of Xbox's troubles have stemmed from the lack of role-playing games, which are favored here over the shoot-'em-up and action games that tend to be hits in the U.S.

Redmond, Wash.-based Microsoft Corp. has made a point of signing on game designers popular in Japan to deliver works like "Final Fantasy XI," set to go on sale later this month."

...Microsoft will also beef up its entertainment downloads catering to Japanese tastes, such as animation trailers, and online gaming available on its online service Xbox Live."

Back in September The Register described MS's problems with Japan the previous time around:

"In a bid to get the product right for Japanese consumers, Microsoft was forced to delay the Xbox's introduction, from December 2001 to February 2002. Hints that it was pondering such a move surfaced way back in March 2001. It did little good, in any case. Microsoft went on to take the axe to its Japanese Xbox workforce in March 2003, before going on to announce a strategic rethink of the Japanese market the following July. Xbox has yet to dent Sony or Nintendo's sales in the country, however.

This time round, Microsoft has made sure it has recruited some of the biggest names in Japanese gaming to the cause. It said it would be showing titles from Square Enix, Genki, Konami, Taito, Namco and others at the Tokyo Games Show."

They clearly wanted to gain ground in Japan. Based on the huge advantage in release dates you'd think they'd have some traction. Right now their sales are last in that market -- behind the GameCube.

Meanwhile I can walk to the nearest GameCube here in Minneapolis and find 360s stacked up on the shelf selling at list price. Huge demand: no. Not here anyway. Some mild interest -- it's the newest thing -- but the kids playing Call of Duty down at Target can't afford to buy the dang thing.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market

[MBraynard]

I recall, however, that this was the same situation as with the last round. PS2 with custom parts and Xbox with commodity. But Sony was able to bring their costs down a lot more than the Xbox.

How would this not be different? Your Jap Zero analogy does not hold AT ALL.

Re:Great! I wonder if anyone will buy them...

[LordNimon]

I wonder how many people who don't already have an Xbox360 are actually going to buy one in the near future.

I know two people who just bought Xbox 360s, and I'm getting one next month. The constrained supply was a huge factor in our decisions to get them now.

What's the difference?

[tepples]

A whopping 40 people, and the wait was still 8 hours? I'm curious how that indicates unreal demand more than it indicates a horrible supply problem.

There is no difference between demand quantity that exceeds supply quantity and supply quantity that falls short of demand quantity: QD > QS iff QS < QD.

Re:November?

[dogbowl]

2007 launch for sure.

Think about it .. their 6 year old product is still the top selling console in the US and the top selling home console in Japan (and I only assume the same is true for Europe).

Why would the want to cut off sales from their cash cow when there is no imminent threat? They're going to ride the PS2 as long as they can (without hurting the PS3).. after all, Sony is in the business of making money, not producing shiny new videogames for the betterment of mankind.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market

[mikeisme77]

Reverse their fortunes was solely about the market share. While forming a niche is nice, every company wants to be the top dog. With strong third party support and a price that undercuts their competitors, Nintendo can regain that top spot (a spot that I, personally, feel they deserve--as long as they don't abuse it like they did last time they held the position). Plus, I remember reading somewhere before about a comment Iwata made before the launch of the DS that if the new handheld and the new console don't succeed that Nintendo would have to consider folding out of the game because even though they may have profited from the GameCube they thought of it as a failure.

Think logistics instead of economics

[brokeninside]

A horrible supply problem such as shipping thousands of units to retailers where there is no demand rather than to retailers where there is demand would certainly explain the conflicting anecdotes of some posters claiming that units are just collecting dust on the shelves while other posters claim that no one can find them in stock.

Re:November?

[Ewan]

That's true to an extent, but Sony do have a number of partners who's business plans rely on the Playstation 3 being on sale at the end of this year.

If Sony slip the release back, then the likes of EA, Ubisoft, Konami, etc, will make their displeasure quite clear, and might even stop or scaleback the PS3 developments they're doing - after all, the publishers would much prefer 1 system to have 100% marketshare, it would save them a fortune in development costs, and whether it's Sony of Microsoft doesn't really bother them.

Also, Sony are relying on the PS3 to drive Blu-ray in their battle against HD-DVD, if they were to announce that it wouldn't be out until next year, then you'd have some pissed off movie studios who have committed to Blu-ray movies when there's no mass-market players for it.

Ewan

Re: 1 Million 360s a Month By Year's End

[revlayle]

Quantum mechinaics, i'm sure....

But how many...

[cspariah]

...of those million units will be defective? Over the last two weeks, four of my co-workers bought XBOX360s. Three of them needed to be returned.

Re:But how many...

[redgopher]

I know five people, including myself, who have had to RMA their 360s. My 360 is in repair right now, actually. I think the quote was 2-3% of the units were defective. That means if 1,000,000 a month are produced, 20,000 to 30,000 units will be defective.

This just in, Microsoft now the biggest employer in McAllen, TX.

XBox 360 Production Schedule, 2006

[menace3society]

April: 1
May: 2
June: 3
July: 4
August: 5
September: 7 (kickin' into overdrive)
October: 10
Nover: 12
December: 1,000,000

Good plan.

Reason why..

[paullyjunge]

Has the 360 been selling ANY units in Japan?

Nope, that's why they can pump out a million a month for the US.

*Yawn*

[oGMo]

The PS2 sold just shy of a million on opening weekend . Just in Japan. And 10,000,000 in 13 months.

I think we already see how the dominance in this generation is going to play out (unless Sony prices themselves out of the market); Nintendo's not claiming it (by design) and Microsoft can't reach it (by ineptitude)

However, they're still important... having 3 competing consoles last generation was the best thing for customers everywhere; just remember the pre-E3 price wars. Competition keeps companies on their toes.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market

[gabebear]

"The wireless it uses is a standard household wireless technology found in headphones and the like - while it is not Bluetooth or Wifi, it is not proprietary."

Where did you come up with this??? I'd love to see the specs to the 360's wireless interface, but the only thing that has been freely published is that it uses the 2.4Ghz frequency... what are you basing this on? Do you have headphones that use this????

• HDMI ports - very commodity(you don't even need a stupid adapter). HDMI is going to have to be graphed onto the 360 if it wants to really support HD-DVD
• Cell - Cell has a much better chance of becoming a commodity part than the 360's CPU. Neither the Cell nor the Xeon are good with unoptimised binaries
• GPU - both use specialized GPUs, although the 360's incorporates an off-die 10MB EDRAM buffer
• hard drive - the 360 will not accept standard hard drives(that's why they get away with charging $100 for a 20gig), it's unkown how the PS3's HD system will work.
• memory sticks - still better than those stupid 360 mem cards
• USB - why the Hell even bring this up?
• software - The 360 uses an NT Kernel and has a lot of the win32 libraries(directx etc). This really only makes ports from PC games easier(not better)

The Blu-Ray drive is special and will increase the price, but it also lets you play HD movies. Oh, and I expect to see at least some of the ideas from the revolution's controller put into the PS3's controller.

Supply up - why can't the games pick up?

[romrunning]

I wish the games would now pick up - both in terms of quantity & quality. I'm starting to buy XBox Live games now due to the lack of enough good stuff available. There were what, 13 games at launch, and only around 20 now, almost 6 months later? What happened to all of the lead time the developers had?

Re:Supply up - why can't the games pick up?

[radish]

Actually there were 19 games at launch, and there are in the region of 30-35 out right now. And it's less than 5 months since launch (Nov 22), not 6.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market

[grumbel]

Aren't the CPUs just rather normal G4 PowerPC processors? And the GPU something close to what we have in PC? Sure, its still a bunch of custom stuff, but the PS3 Cell and BluRay seem to be quite a bit more complex.

Re:Great! I wonder if anyone will buy them...

[radish]

There's still a shortage in many areas, and a good supply in others. Hopefully we'll see that sorting itself out over the next few weeks. Having your product actually on the shelves can only help sales!

Come to ohio

[Nazmun]

We've got tons of 360's... All the samsclub's have a large number of the $399 bundles.

Re:Come to ohio

[tepples]

All the samsclub's have a large number of the $399 bundles.

Is a Sam's Club membership worth the 40 USD per year?

Re:Great! I wonder if anyone will buy them...

[jchenx]

I think it really depends on where you live. Where I live in "Microsoft country" (the greater Seattle area), Xbox 360s are still very much hard to find. It's gotten a lot better, no doubt, but I still don't see them just sitting on shelves. Everyone I know who REALLY wanted a 360 has one, but some of the folks I know who are more casually interested in the console are still waiting till they can just pick it up at their local electronics/game store.

I've heard the same shortages from friends around Austin and the Northern Virginia area. But I have heard people claim, in more rural areas, that yes, 360s are much more readily available.

That's an interesting take

[brokeninside]

But if you're going to add XBox + XBox 360 to make a comparison, should you not also add PSP + PS/2 and Game Boy + DS + Game Cube to compare it to?

I still maintain that the most interesting numbers won't come out until early next year.

Re:That's an interesting take

[MHolmesIV]

No, since PSP games are designed in the same way as PS1 titles, and are not really related to PS2 development.
Gameboy and DS can be added together. But the Gamecube again uses a different set of tools and abilities.

In general though, you don't want to be comparing the handhelds with the standard consoles, they're a different market entirely.

Now when Revolution comes out, it should be added to gamecube sales when determining development cost and possible returns from a game, since from what I can tell, the systems appear to be binary compatible. Development for them could release two games, one with a normal controller profile and toned down graphics, and a second with upgraded graphics and nifty controller stuff. Very little added cost, but huge benefit in established user base.

In these days of multi million dollar game titles, you can't afford to release a game to a small audience. Games have to sell over a million copies to break even a lot of the time, which makes being a launch or early title for a new console a daunting prospect. Being able to leverage known toolsets, or being able to parallelize development for multiple consoles with low overhead is a boon to game makers.

Re:November?

[Schemat1c]

I could have sworn I read somewhere that the PS3 was delayed until 2007. Am I remembering incorrectly?

I hope not because for some reason the release of UT2k7 is set to coincide with the release of the PS3. This includes the PC version, which is the only one I'm interested in.

I know this has been discussed before but I really don't like how the industry seems to be tied more and more to consoles these days. The only console game that has held my interest in the past 6 years has been Katamari. The only console I would even consider buying in the future is the Revolution due to it's controller but I'm still going to wait a few months after it's release to see if even that is worth it.

Re:November?

[PhoenixFlare]

after all, the publishers would much prefer 1 system to have 100% marketshare, it would save them a fortune in development costs, and whether it's Sony of Microsoft doesn't really bother them.

So Nintendo is just going to vanish due to sheer terror or something?

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market

[gabebear]

HDMI is the future for video cables and you can pick one up for $20ish today and that price will drop, the 360 requires a $30 cable for anything but composite.

IBM's CELL blades are interesting, although they are just prototypes. The Cell will be in some stuff, it has a chance of catching on in media apps, but I'm guessing it will end up only being successful in the PS3.

The 360's hard drive is completely unupgradable, you can't upgrade it even if you rip the damn thing apart. The 360's hard-drive situation really couldn't be worse...

The off-die memory is cheaper, but the fact that the video card needs two dies connected with a 200 GByte/sec bus just isn't cheap or "commodity".

The 360 can use USB drives and controllers, but so can everything. The 360 has no real intigration with the iPod(it can't play iTunes DRMed AAC) or the PSP(nothing but a jump drive to the 360)

PC ports generally suck... but I guess it takes all kinds...

Rumors... in Spanish!

[The-Bus]

I'd take this "news" with a day-long immersion in the Dead Sea, but as reported on a Spanish news site's forum and attributed to "Adam McLoryan" of Microsoft:

The 360 will see a ~$100 price drop come October.
(In response to PS3 online), Xbox Live's price will be reduced, possibly made entirely free thanks to sponsorship and promotion.
(In response to NDS's online play), a new for-kids version of Xbox Live will be created, with a kid-centric dashboard.

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market

[SSCGWLB]

They appear to be based on the G4, but have been redesigned:

"The chip contains three identical, customized IBM 64-bit multi-threaded PowerPC-based CPU cores, each implementing two simultaneous instruction threads and featuring clock speeds in excess of 3 GHz. The cores are enhanced with specialized function VMX acceleration for gaming applications, as well as with a high speed 128-bit vector unit. Additionally, the processor includes a 1 MB Shared L2 Cache with custom logic for high-speed data streaming for graphics and system applications, and provides an aggregate front side bus (FSB) bandwidth of 21.6 GB/sec, IBM added.

The chip is highly configurable and programmable, based on IBM's eFUSE technology. It contains 165 million transistors, and is fabricated in IBM's 90 nanometer Silicon on Insulator (SOI) technology to reduce heat and improve performance, according to IBM."

~nate

Re:November?

[SSCGWLB]

Didn't sony commit to a 'Spring 2006' launch? Repeatedly? Then deny they would miss the deadline until the deadline passed? Why is November 2006 any more reasonable or believable? That is merely the most recent line of BS they are feeding everybody.

~nate

Re:Commodity parts == Fast time to market

[bigman2003]

Many of your comments are correct, but you are (partway) wrong about the cable.

If you get the premium version, you get component (and composite) cables in the box.