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The Hiccups of Free Wi-fi for Cities

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the hard-enough-to-make-our-office-work dept.

smooth wombat writes "Several cities around the country are considering implementing free wi-fi for its residents. Currenly, St. Cloud, Florida is the only one that can make that claim. However, the 28,000 residents are still experiencing hiccups in the system more than a month after implementation including being able to see receivers but not being able to connect or connecting at different times with weak signals or not being able to connect at all. As a result, many residents are still paying for monthly landline connections. HP, which has been contracted to build the project and provide customer support, says it is working to resolve the issues by adding more access points to improve signal strength in isolated parts of the city. Despite these issues, HP says that there were only 842 help-line calls out of more than 50,000 user sessions in the first 45 days of service."

39 of 223 comments (clear)

  1. Free WiFi AP wiki by suso · · Score: 4, Informative

    Heh, just last night there was someone on the mediawiki IRC channel asking if his Free WiFi Lan wiki project was a good idea. People from here should go there and give this project a boost. Check it out.

    Ironically, someone asked the guy if his server could take a Slashdotting. From talking to him through email it seems that will will be fine for a comment link.

  2. A large scale project induces hiccups. by Trigun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would be suprised if there weren't hiccups in a rollout this large. Give it six months, and then we'll see. Until then, let's all reserve judgement.

    1. Re:A large scale project induces hiccups. by mikesd81 · · Score: 2

      I agree with this. But also I wonder if some people don't have unrealistic expectations for a free wifi setup. If you're expecting to pull gigs of warez down and hours of porn, you might very well be disappointed. If you're looking just to pull mail, casual internet browsing or passing through and you need to pull e-mail from your company, then it's good and probaly will do fine.

      But as Trigun said, let's give it time. It took the plant I work in (just one plant, 5 computers on the production floor, 4 in the foremans office, and 5 upstairs) more than a month to iron out all the wifi issues, and we still have some.

      --
      That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
    2. Re:A large scale project induces hiccups. by Trigun · · Score: 5, Informative

      Terribly sorry, I got to the part that said "More than a month after St. Cloud launched what analysts say is the country's first free citywide Wi-Fi network, Lusardi and others in this 28,000-person Orlando suburb are still paying to use their own Internet service providers as dead spots and weak signals keep some residents offline and force engineers to retool the free system." and thought, "Hmm, more than a month, that can't possibly be 24 months."

      After reading the article, I found out that it "... launched the network on a trial basis in May 2004 in a new division of town to help give businesses an incentive to relocate. After further exploring the benefits, officials decided to expand it citywide." Which means that it worked well in the trial, and they had issues as they expanded and added users.

      Now let's dissect all of that. May 2004, St. Cloud launches test bed. Works. Continue to run testbed.
      Sometime between 01/01/06 and 03/24/06, after having to go through committees, raise funding, and implementation of the full scale wi-fi network, they release it to the public. People complain (Which is their nature, and some of them their sole function) that they can't get wireless coverage, or that the access points are maxxed out. When they do connect, it's slow. Some lady at the beach, which has really decent line of sight when compared to, say an apartment building, can use it.

      So, after RTFA, I think that I'm still right. But I could be wrong about that. It's been known to happen,

    3. Re:A large scale project induces hiccups. by Trigun · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nice comeback, NineNine, and a decent way to pimp your site.

  3. Free as in... by paulthomas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Free as in Beer? More like...

    Free as in at least two million dollars in capital outlay and $400k annually (and they're probably underestimating). Free as in: people using it don't necessarily pay for it, and people paying for it don't necessarily use it.

    That's not a definition of free I can accept.

    1. Re:Free as in... by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just like Canadian health care is "free".

    2. Re:Free as in... by brunes69 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The difference is, when you get laid off from your job because then suddenly need open-heart surgery, you'll be damn-well glad that you paid for that healthcare you "didn't need" for all those years.

    3. Re:Free as in... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's what "public spending" is about. I have no kids, so get the hell away with child support! I don't own a car, so why bother spending money on more highways? Or I have a car, why the hell does the state still fund those bus lines that only clog the road ahead of me? Public broadcasting, what for, I got cable and their program sucks anyway! To carry it to extremes, I'm no woman, so why the hell should I pay for women's houses?

      Public services are by definition something everyone pays for and not everyone uses. That's not necessarily "unjust" or bad. It's provided to you. You're free to use it. Or not. It's there.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Free as in... by 955301 · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Socialism - we've been on the road to socialism. And a lot of it has been good. But comparing the fire department with wireless access is a bit much, don't you think?

      --
      You are checking your backups, aren't you?
    5. Re:Free as in... by 955301 · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Except for one thing - the revenue the city generates isn't *directly* tied to the performance of the network. So the desire to operate the network smoothly isn't driven by a swift kick to the government coffers like it is for a company.

      An organization whose financial well-being is immediately effected by problems with the network is more well suited to handle something as complicated as this. Incentive is everything.

      --
      You are checking your backups, aren't you?
    6. Re:Free as in... by sfjoe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...there's a potential general economic benefit to providing this service...

      But the right-wing doesn't recognize "potential economic benefits". If it doesn't enrich a very small, already wealthy contingent, then it's a communist plot.

      --
      It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
    7. Re:Free as in... by planetmn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Except for one thing - the revenue the city generates isn't *directly* tied to the performance of the network. So the desire to operate the network smoothly isn't driven by a swift kick to the government coffers like it is for a company.

      You mean like how if Comcast service sucks, I can go to Verizon, and if Verizon sucks I can go to Comcast? It's not like the guys in the ISP arena have a true economic desire to operate a network smoothly anyway.

      -dave

      --
      /., where "Apple and Google provide Iran with nukes" will be refuted with "But Microsoft is a convicted monopolist"
    8. Re:Free as in... by cam_macleod · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True, but as a trivia note the US Government spends more on healthcare per capita than the Canadian one does, and that's for coverage of far fewer. Rather off-topic though. :)

    9. Re:Free as in... by sfjoe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...everyone will pay even higher taxes for something they don't use

      Yeah, like I pay for a fire department I've never used and roads I've never driven on. The self-centered, greedy right-wing can't fathom the concept of doing something that benefits everyone. If there is nothing in it for them personally, they scream about having to pay for it.

      Sound familiar?

      Sure does. The same old greed-centered crap the right keeps pumping out. Funny how the right wing thinks that everything would be fine if we just handed over everything to the corporations.

      --
      It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
  4. Sunnyvale, CA has it too by callipygian-showsyst · · Score: 3, Informative
    Currenly, St. Cloud, Florida is the only one that can make that claim

    BZZZZZZZT Thanks for playing!

    Sunnyvale, CA (a city of 115,000 people) has free city-wide WiFi, too.

    --
    Best Buy can have you arrested
  5. Let's keep autonomy by Odiumjunkie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "As a result, many residents are still paying for monthly landline connections."

    Is this surprising, or some kind of a sign of failure? I think that free city-wide Wi-Fi is a nice idea, but I still wouldn't surrender the autonomy, privacy, control and efficiency of my own pipe.
    b

    1. Re:Let's keep autonomy by mikesd81 · · Score: 2

      It's not a sign of failure. It's a sign that people want the band width that you can't get with a free service or they run services like a web server or ftp server or what have you.

      --
      That which does not kill me only postpones the inevitable.
    2. Re:Let's keep autonomy by Surt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You, as a slashdot poster, are surely not like the majority of residents. I would expect that most people would ditch a $30/month tethered service (existing landline DSL or whatever) in favor of free, everywhere available service. Most people have much better things to do with that $360 per year, whereas a slashdot poster probably gets more use out of that service than anything else he could spend the money on. The fact that most people are not dropping that monthly bill is surely an indicator that some aspect of that service is simply not up to par.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    3. Re:Let's keep autonomy by lelitsch · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's probably a sign that many residents don't know how to buy or install a wireless card. Talk to some cable company istaller occasionally. They get called to plug in the cable in the back of the computer because customers don't know where it is supposed to go. Even though there are only one or two jacks an Ethernet cable will fit into and either of them works.

  6. Poor Quality? by kwiqsilver · · Score: 2, Interesting
    On a government provided service? Shocking!

    But at least they have the comfort of knowing they're paying more for the service than they need to. And since it's a tax- (or debt-) funded service, they get to keep paying too much for it, unless they can somehow find a politician who will vote to reduce a budget.

    1. Re:Poor Quality? by kwiqsilver · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Agreed!!

      Fortunately cable & phone monopolies are slowly going obsolete, because of competition from satellite, cell phones, phone over cable, tv over phone lines, etc.

      Just goes to show what wonderful things the market can do, even when burdened by government backed monopolies.

  7. Wrong, not if it is done correctly by brunes69 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In my city not only is the Wi-Fi free, but it actually turns a profit for the city, who resells bandwidth on it's fibre ring that powers it to local companies.

    In essence, the city is acting as an ISP. The ISP offers free bandwidth to residents, and leases surplus bandiwdth to other companies.

    It can also be seen that, even if a city did not turn a profit on it's own network, the increased tax revenue from people migrating to the area because the WiFi is there couldpay for the cost of the network.

    I am not saying that this is the case in this particular city, I am just pointing out that free Wi-Fi can be a win-win situation for all residents if you have smart people in charge of the thing.

  8. Wireless Remedy by digitaldc · · Score: 3, Funny

    Someone said they would get rid of the wifi hiccups, but then I was told, 'Don't hold your breath.'

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  9. It's as free as the roads by bigtrike · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your argument could easily be applied to public roads. I don't own a car, yet I'm forced to pay for them. I would hope that you are consistent with your viewpoints and are against public roads as well, as they are not "free" either.

    1. Re:It's as free as the roads by sootman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ah, but you do get the benefit of them--imagine how much it would cost to get goods to the store if these roads weren't there.

      As much as I like technology, I don't think wireless Internet access is something taxpayers should be footing the bill for right now. Maybe someday, but right now, it's expensive, hard to maintain, and not heavily used. It was already tried and abandoned in nearby Orlando. Someday, fast wireless will work as well as cell phone service will today, but until then, cities that try this are just throwing their money into a hole--though I'd like to hear from some residents of Sunnyvale, CA to see how their system is working out. You never know who will be the first to get it right.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    2. Re:It's as free as the roads by geoffspear · · Score: 2, Insightful
      First of all, GP poster was obviously making a point about how stupid the previous posters point was, not advocating stopping public financing of roads.

      More to the point, a retailer passes on the cost of transporting the goods they sell to the people buying them. If I accept that public financing of infrastructure (whether network or physical) is an unacceptable use of taxpayer money, why would I want to subsidize other people's purchasing of retail goods? Let the stores build their own roads, and pass on the cost to people who shop there.

      --
      Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
    3. Re:It's as free as the roads by sootman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You either support spending public money spent on items which may not benefit everyone equally (and some not at all), or you don't.

      Every public project does not have equal value, and saying you should support all or none is ridiculous. Like I said, I don't think municipal WiFi is a good idea RIGHT NOW. The US interstate highway system was implemented about 50 years after the invention of cars, and even then, it didn't happen overnight. See also water, electricity, garbage, police, firefighters, the armed forces, etc etc etc.

      --
      Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
    4. Re:It's as free as the roads by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "As much as I like technology, I don't think wireless Internet access is something taxpayers should be footing the bill for right now. "

      I hear ya. There are MANY more important things to spend money on than free wifi. Housing problems, bad roads....poor schools, etc. Problems in many cities.

      The internet isn't as much a necessity to living as those other things I've mentioned. And if you can't afford a connection...you probably need to be out getting an education and a better job so that a $40-$80/mo bill for a nice broadband connection isn't gonna break the bank.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  10. There are a bunch of these by drewzhrodague · · Score: 3, Informative

    There are a bunch of hotspot lists, including wireless anarchy. Hell, I even provide a hotspot list, but we get ours from people wardriving.

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
  11. Give 'em some time by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Remember when broadband came? I do.

    An uptime of an hour was rare. An uptime of a day was unheard of. Downtime of a day, on the other hand, was quite common.

    You're complaining after just a month? Don't tell me you already quitted your cable provider, thinking that this works "out of the box".

    Seriously now. Cut 'em some slack and let them iron out the wrinkles. If they don't improve after 6 months, you have something to complain about. But after a month? C'mon, be realistic, this is more or less uncharted water they're trying to wade in.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Re:Only? by 955301 · · Score: 2, Funny

    even assuming that people are going to call every time there is a problem.

    I don't see why they wouldn't. We're running a voip based call center - all they had to do was connect their notebook with our service, download a soft-phone and dial the number on the support page. What could possible prevent them from doing this? We even provide Email-accessible support for SMTP/IMAP issues ...

          - HP Support, St. Cloud, Florida

    --
    You are checking your backups, aren't you?
  13. Stupid idea by realmolo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anyone that has ever tried to setup a WiFi network to cover a large municipal area knows that it's essentially IMPOSSIBLE to make it work well. WiFi is just to sensitive to interference. Trees and building stop WiFi in it's tracks. The only solution is to flood the area with access points, which is so expensive to do that it's not practical.

    Supposedly WiMax has better coverage, but honestly, until the FCC opens up some of the lower UHF/VHF frequencies, wireless internet access "for the masses" is never gonna work right. 2.4Ghz is just too high a frequency to push through stuff.

  14. WIFI is the wrong technology by Urusai · · Score: 2, Interesting

    From what I gather, there are only 3 practically usable channels (1, 6, 11), it has an inefficient collision avoidance method, its bridging capability causes exponential bandwidth decay with the number of hops, and it uses open frequencies that are also used by wireless phones, etc., thus being susceptible to interference.

    Just give us fiber to the home already. We've already paid for it in the form of tax breaks to the telcos.

  15. A small portion of Sunnyvale, CA has it too by el+americano · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Strike two. Another Sunnyvale resident that lives north of the railroad tracks. Their advertising claims that it's "available" in Sunnyvale, but if less than half the city is covered, even that unqualified claim seems misleading. Sure it's available, just not for you.

    Life was better when we had Metricom. It was slower, but ran on 900MHz for better home penetration, and their protocols supported mobility.

    --
    Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
  16. EULA and Privacy of a municipal network? by thedletterman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Do these cities with free wifi access have an intrusive monitoring policy, is there an EULA for usage, or is it basically, you are using the government's shit and we can do whatever we want on it. This is why communications has always been a privatized industry. As someone who has helped design municipal communications architectures (Emergency band, New York City), I'm not a big fan of making them available to the public.

    --
    Any fool can criticise, condemn, and complain, and most fools do. - Benjamin Franklin
  17. And the really awesome part by Damek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The really awesome part of spending in the public interest is that there are usually residual benefits even for those people who don't directly use the services.

    Public roads? Lubricates the commerce (at the very least), which makes the economy as a whole better for you to participate in.

    Social security? Keeps the unfortunate & market-abused from being too much of a drag on society and potentially a destabilizing force; IOW, it keeps society secure for you, too.

    Subsidized communications (incl. wifi services)? Facilitates democracy, free flow of information, not to mention commerce like roads & public transport also do. Which makes the economy and your democracy all the better, even if you choose other avenues to participate in commerce & government.

  18. Re:Fascination With Free Wi-Fi by randyflood · · Score: 2, Insightful


    Offering free wireless internet access is better than launching free cell phone service. There is at least one cell phone that can switch seamlessly between using voice over ip and regular cellular networks even in the middle of a call. Plus, you could have a PDA do it as well. You could have a GPS device interface with Google maps over wireless to provide you driving directions. There are a ton of uses for this. If wireless internet access was availiable almost everywhere, then there are all sorts of wonderful things you could do.

    --
    Randy.Flood@RHCE2B.COM
  19. Marquette? by zip0nada · · Score: 2, Informative

    Marquette Michigan is one of those cities that DOES have a working WiFi network almost citywide. The Northern Michigan University provides nearly complete WiFi coverage throughout Marquette and plan to complete this coverage soon.