Slashdot Mirror
The World's Deepest Dinosaur
FiReaNGeL writes to tell us BiologyNews.net is reporting that Norway has uncovered their first set of dinosaur remains. The catch? They found it 2,256 meters below the ocean floor. From the article: "It is merely a coincidence that the remains of the old dinosaur now see the light of day again, or more precisely, parts of the dinosaur. The fossil is in fact just a crushed knucklebone in a drilling core - a long cylinder of rock drilled out from an exploration well at the Snorre offshore field."
Give us the details on the drilling rig!
A crushed knucklebone in a drilling core,
Everybody find the dinosaur!
I wonder what things will be like 200 million years from today, what adanced (or not so advanced) civilization will uncover the golden gate bridge, or statue of liberty. Entire continents submerged under thousands of feet of water and mud? This impetuous yet infinitesimal progression of gradualism really makes catastrophic events like Katrina seem like child's play. There's no greater force than time.
Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
Africus aut Europaeus?
The fossil is in fact just a crushed knucklebone in a drilling core
Quick! someone call CSI!
"The question of how dinosaur fossils could be submerged to that depth is pretty interesting."
A worldwide flood perhaps?
. . .the fact they can tell what species it was by just a knucklebone.
I agree. We should use science to figure out where the bones come from, rather than relying on supernatural explanations.
Also, if during the course of the scientific investigations, the researches should become hungry, they should eat food rather than praying for their hunger to end. Similarly, if their mode of transportation should run out of fuel, they probably would be better served by buying a tank full of gas, versus merely "wishing real hard" that they could get where they were going.
And, of course, if they post on Slashdot, they shouldn't Karma-whore by posting the BLEEDING OBVIOUS.
I though the worlds deepest dinosaur was cowboy neal
"I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google"
Hmm, so the old woman was wrong, the earth is not perched on the back of a turtle, it is dinosaurs all the way down...
Oh well, what the hell...
Reminds me of an old song "Dem Dem Dry Bones" or whatever it was called. However, I can't seem to recall the "knucklebone" stanza, so hopefully the scientists won't mess up the rebuilding. =)
Fighting over religion is like seeing whose imaginary friend is best.
The ultimate goal of science should be a complete, rigorous explanation of the natural world to the exclusion of supernatural phenomena.
This is a rediculous statement. The purpose of science should be to find the truth--whether that includes "supernatural phenomena" or not cannot be a foregone conlcusion for any _truely_ scientific search for truth.
That would be like somebody 100 years ago saying "The ultimate goal of science should be a complete, rigorous explanation of the natural world with the exclusion of the theory of relativity."
If scientific exploration is limited to our currently understood views of the world, and physical laws, then it's not science any more.
Until science _disproves_ something, that thing should not be discounted as a possibility. That includes God, goblins, and pink dinosaurs under the ocean floor.
Having said that, that doesn't mean we need to _assume_ these things exist, either. It simply means that an open mind, even to possibilities we may personally consider to be impossibilities, is necessary if the results we're going to get are to be unbiased.
There are so many scientific breakthroughs that we've seen throughout history that would never have been reached if they had been approached with your attitude--from flight, to electric light, to the theory of relativity, to space travel, to the "supernatural" time travel theory used by the time machine I used I used to get here to leave this post.
Fast-moving plates?
2256 meters after 200,000,000 years gives a sinking speed of *11 microns per year*.
Apparently "Planet of the Apes" references get you modded Insightful.
"The FSM put it there!" comments :)
So, they were drilling for fossil fuel? Looks like they knuckled down, and found the source. But still, with the odds of finding a fossil like that, so deep, it almost makes me wonder if the drill was intelligently designed...
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Surely the answer is obvious? It got pushed down by the drill bit.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
The lunar landing sites will still be recognizable in 200 million years. Even the footprints are estimated to survive for a hundred times the age of the Pyramids.
Voyager 2 and Pioneer 10 will outlive the Earth.
Usually the lower beneath the surface a fossil is, the old it, due to the fact that soil is deposited over time. I wonder what the results of a carbon dating would show.
The purpose of philosophy is to seek truth, but the purpose of science is to explain how things work. "Truisms" and "facts" are not good words to use in the natural sciences, where several hypotheses may be working at once.
The problem is that supernatural phenomena is untestable. Whether things like God or goblins exist are interesting questions, but without physical evidence, it remains speculation and is not within the realm of science. Fortunately, we don't need physical evidence to believe in God (or goblins)- this requires faith which by definition is NOT something we can see/hear/etc. Science can only deal with things that are testable. I do not know anything about the theory of relativity, except that my understanding is that it is largely based on mathematical modeling as well as physical laws, which again, are testable and completely within the realm of science - I think people will respond to you, offended that you believe that this scientific theory is "supernatural." Sometimes indirect testing is in order, but it still works. An open mind is required as you suggest, but to put forward an untestable hypothesis will get you nowhere, as no one can either agree or disagree with you, and therefore the answer will not be found.
I also call your bluff on you owning a time machine.
--
Better go now, running out of room.
2256 meters after 200,000,000 years gives a sinking speed of *11 microns per year*.
From this page, it says that the Snorre field is located approx 140km west of the coast. The ocean depth is at around 300-300m, but the reservoir is some 2500m down. It also says that the reservoir differs from most of the other fields in the North Sea in that the rock consists of fossil riverbeds from a time (triassic period) when the North Sea was dry land containing big rivers.
I'm guessing it doesn't really matter how much it has moved, since things were probably very different then anyways.
Whales have extremely dense bones, and they also didn't evolve until about 30 ma. Judging from the approximate age of the bone (oil drillers know all this stuff), as well as any diagnostic features, it would be easy to designate it as a Plateosaurus, which is an extremely common dinosaur in western Europe, and is from the Late Triassic (about 200 ma). Even if crushed, a Plateosaurus is the most parsimonious explanation. As I said in another comment, the prosauropods were going from bipedal to quadrupedal and, correct me if I'm wrong prosauropod people, I bet the "knucklebones" were unique, and perhaps easy to ID. I also bet that this bone was washed out to the ocean from a river, as Norway was covered in rivers during this time. You're assuming much less once you actually have a bit of background on the time period and the region.
The flood is pretty widely accepted. Every culture dating back to then (and conveniently located in the middle east/N Africa/Mediteranian) has its own flood myths, and the geologic record supports it. There probably was a huge flood that flooded the whole region at one point, but there probably wasn't a drunk with a boat and 2 of every animal.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
...and without evidence to the contrary they should establish that as a scientific theory?
That's not what Flimzy said at all. Read the post.
Until science _disproves_ something, that thing should not be discounted as a possibility. That includes God, goblins, and pink dinosaurs under the ocean floor.
Having said that, that doesn't mean we need to _assume_ these things exist, either.
Waiting on evidence before making a decision is hardly unscientific. The whole idea that something should not be regarded as possibly real until it can be scientifically observed flies in the face of scientific advancement. By this thinking, atoms only became real quite recently, and creationism was true until Darwin made his observations (or at least, evolution hadn't happened until the observations were made, at which point it became true).
http://marriedmansexlife.com/
The Norwegians dug too deep and greedily.
...and placed that knucklebone there about 6500 years ago because he knew in his infinite wisdom and omnipotence that someday we would send an exploratory core driller down in that exact location. I see it all clearly now.
We make a lot of things out of stone and ceramics too, and given the size of our civilisation, I'd say we make a hell of a lot more of them than those "olden cultures".
Taller structures may fall, but granite plinths, retaining walls, foundations and even smaller detailed pieces have as good a chance of surviving as a dinosaur bone had.
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
"The bugger died and just floated down to the deep."
"floated down"??
Is that at all like "sank"?
OR a sedimentary deposit rate of 11 microns per year.
Our (human) pyramids are only 6000 years old, and their outer surface is gone - another 100k years, they'll just be piles of rubble
I believe that their nice shiny white outer surface was actually stolen/reused... in the nice shiny white buildings around Cairo. People cant resist shiny stuff... so maybe that actually proves your point that they wont be around for ever, but it wasnt environmental factors that have removed their brilliant coverings...
a ref that says so... i have read it elsewhere too...
I think hubris isn't really the issue, since apparently I admitted that I didn't know what the theory of relativity entailed. I also seriously doubt that you or anyone else knows about "all things under the ocean," if you want to talk about hubris. I would also think that being an oil rig driller would require some geological knowledge, and so none of this would be news to you.
I think it is clear that NO ONE was around back then. Does that mean we should stop studying fossils, and stop acquiring evidence as is possible? Should we forget about studying things that we cannot see firsthand, but we can still find data about? Should we stop making experiments to try to replicate the environments that existed back then and from that get ideas on how bones are transported?
Though I am not Norwegian nor was I around 200 mya, I read that Norway was covered by a fluvial system during the time from which they are approximating the age of the bone. Based on my knowledge of fluvial systems to transport and deposit bone (this is the topic of my Master's thesis), I know that it is LIKELY that this is what occurred, and according to a later comment, this is indeed what had happened according to the geologists studying it.
The biased way in which you presented your "data," as well as the ridiculous off-topic remarks about Tom Cruise (WTF?), the Grand Canyon, and the entire field of paleontology tell me that you are taking this personally, that you may have some deep-seated issues with scientists, and that you really know extraordinarily little about how science is done.
While fixing cars is important, some of us must indeed go to college, as a civilization is judged based on the science, art, and philosophy that comes out of it, and not only that but also to make important discoveries regarding these, not to mention medicine. Not all of us can be car-fixers. Not to mention the fact that geologists play an important part in finding oil, a fact I'm sure you are familiar with. I hope you someday get over your problems with scientists. But I won't waste any more time with someone who refers to me as a "fool." Good day to you.
It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
The flood is pretty widely accepted. Every culture dating back to then (and conveniently located in the middle east/N Africa/Mediteranian) has its own flood myths, and the geologic record supports it. There probably was a huge flood that flooded the whole region at one point, but there probably wasn't a drunk with a boat and 2 of every animal.
The flooding of the Marmara sea and the Babylonian flood circa ~2,200 B.C.E. are fairly well-known, along with a number of other floods in the region. Some of these flood myths, such as the Turkish one, actually recalls the specific flood itself.
There is some evidence, though disputed, of extensive flooding about ten thousand years ago, during the end of the last ice age, that wiped out an extant bronze-age civilization. I don't put a whole lot of stock in it, though it is a nice fancy.
I am a science fantasy fan
The problem is that supernatural phenomena is untestable. Whether things like God or goblins exist are interesting questions, but without physical evidence, it remains speculation and is not within the realm of science. Fortunately, we don't need physical evidence to believe in God (or goblins)- this requires faith which by definition is NOT something we can see/hear/etc.
Yes, the completely generic and abstract question "Is there a God?" is untestable. However, the Bible is full of testable questions and events that are supposed to have occured, most of which have been thoroughly disproven. Same goes for most of the other world religions.
Relgion seems to be unlike any other form of reasoning we might have. If you found error upon error in the supportive evidence, you'd pretty soon debunk the whole theory. Not so with religion, you simply choose your selection of texts, interpret them to what you want to hear and rationalize the rest away as "simplifications" made either by God or those who wrote it down to make it understandable to mankind.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
as opposed to, you know, being sons of Adam or daughters of Eve...
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
... trying to trick us with fossils into believing the world is older than 10,000 years.
A lot of the comments here are as the result of a misquote in the headline. The headline reports that the bone was found below the "ocean" floor, while the article describes it as being the "sea" bed, the North Sea in particular. There is a very significant difference between the two (apart from the depth - oceans are typicially a few km deep, while seas are only a few 100m), namely the way that they formed. The North Sea was once continental crust (upon which this dinosaur lived), but it stretched, sank, and was flooded. Ever since, sediments have been accumulating, and over time these have buried the fossil to its current depth. Ocean floor is formed from spreading ridges, and has never been part of the continent - you would not expect to find a land dinosaur there.
Owl tried to think of something wise to say, but couldn't.
Before that the Black Sea was a freshwater lake and its North-Eastern shores were very fertile and well inhabited. People living there were serverly dislocated and fled the flood.
Only the descendants of those people who resettled in the Middle East (Noah), Persia (Gilgamesh) and North India (Manu) believe in the quick catastrophic flood, as a divine punishment for sinful mankind. Only Moslem, Christian, Jewish and Hindu religions belive in the Flood being punishment and a complete make over of the universe.
Other Flood legends from the Tamils, Japanese, Chinese, Incas etc talk about gradual Flood as a natural phenomena. World existing before and after in substantially the same way.
BTW all the water in the atmosphere is not enough to cover the world to the depth of four inches.
PS: First time breaking out of Readonly-mode in /. Please be kind to me ;-)
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact