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Computer Buying Experiences at B&M Stores
bob gnosh writes "The team over at [H] Consumer go into Best Buy, Fry's, CompUSA, and Circuit City and buy a computer at each store. They relate exactly what happened at each store, talk about warranties, and what to do to protect yourself or your friends when buying at these places." From the article: "Navigating these retail stores isn't for the faint of heart or those not armed with the right knowledge beforehand. As much as you'd like to go to your closest strip mall, have a salesperson discern your hardware needs, and walk out with a shiny new computer that does everything but load your dishwasher, such an experience is just not going to happen. Most retail sales people are simply not going to possess the necessary knowledge to correctly recommend or explain every nuance of a piece of hardware."
Um- this sounds like buying most things, from washing machines to cars. Salespeople that aren't knowledgable? No way! You need to research things yourself....
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I usually go into Best Buy because I don't want to be bothered by salesman. Alas, my last major experience with them was less than impressive. While I was browsing for a new home router, a salesperson decided to help out. While he did eventually point me toward a nice Netgear Wifi/Switch combo that was well-priced, his technical information left a lot to be desired. He informed me on no uncertain terms that the unit I had been looking at "wouldn't be full speed" because it was "a switch instead of a router." According to him, a switch was a network device that simply splits the signal, thereby allowing only one port to talk at a time. I shook my head and tried to explain that he was thinking of a hub, and that a switch gives full performance on each port. Unfortunately, I had a head cold at the time and probably wasn't very persuasive. He just sort of gave me a look like, "Whatever, dude".
All in all, Best Buy "geeks" (*cough* *sputter*) tend to have the computer knowledge of a third grader who's been throwing around factoids with his friends at lunch in a desparate attempt to arrive at a miniscule of real knowledge. It used to be amusing to ask the sales staff complex questions just to hear their wonderfully made-up answers, but these days I'm far too busy for that sort of nonsense. They would honestly be a lot more helpful if they just gave their recommendation (the same "here's the popular product" one they give everyone) and went away. For everything else they need to either profess ignorance or point the buyer to websites where they can do their own research. (Not that they're actually going to do that. They need to sell overpriced "Geek Squad" cables and useless warranties somehow.) *sigh*
That being said, I feel sorry for the well-intentioned geeks who spend some small portion of their lives with a Best Buy name tag affixed below their lapel. It must be horrifying to be expected to be so disinformative just to sell warranties and accessories.
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Not only that, but that's typically not their goal. They're typically on commission, so if grandma comes in looking for a computer, they're not going to try to find a computer to fit her modest needs--they're going to try and give her the biggest, most expensive computer with all the add-ons and extras they can manage. Buying a computer at one of these stores involves (a) knowing what you want, and (b) dodging the sales team's efforts to saddle you with extra stuff that you don't want.
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Clearly the submitter has never been to the Apple store. All the mall needs to do is combine Sephora (with all the hot girls) and the Apple store and it would be like a black hole that no one could ever leave from.
As a geek, who sometimes doesn't have a life, one of my favorite pasttimes is to pull aside customers and explain to them the amount of bullsh*t that the salesperson just fed them. It's actually quite a lot of fun.
My experience though is that best buy has a comparably small amount of BS. Circuit city certainly has more, but the worse is at the small mom-pop shops. These little places are TERRIBLE! They can't compete on price, so they stay in business by selling old hardware at inflated prices. They must hire used car salesmen to push 2 year old hardware. Buyer beware.
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I think a better way to say it is; Most shoppers won't pay the prices needed to ensure that retail sales people posses the necessary knowledge to correct recommend and expllain every nuance of a piece of hardware.
I used to have some friends who ran a small computer store. They built machines and sold hardware. They were friendly and knowledgable and did at-home-at-office service calls. Their target was a small but fairly affluent town and they did well for those customers who realized that "cheap" and "quality service" are often words not uttered in the same sentence.
When they saturatued their small town they were not effective at finding more customers that fit their demographic. The tried to compete with Best Buy and Dell and they failed miserably because at the end of the day they couldn't justify selling a computer for $20 profit.
They could answer a customer's question knowledgably and spend the time needed to make sure the customer ended up with a very good fit for their needs. They just couldn't find enough customers who were willing to pay for this level of knowledge and personal service.
Most retail sales people are simply not going to possess the necessary knowledge to correctly recommend or explain every nuance of a piece of hardware.
Yup, and this isn't just true of computers.
Circuit City sells audio equipment, for example. How many salesmen there know the first thing about any of it? My experience has been zero.
Try asking someone in a Wal-Mart a question about their bicycles.
The replacement of speciality stores with larger, general-purpose stores has, in my opinion, vastly reduced the amount of domain knowledge that the salesmen offer. Of course, it costs more to have salesmen with domain knowledge, and general-purpose stores pass on much of those savings to you, so it's a tradeoff...
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A friend of mine once said, after I told him about some bad experiences with computer salesmen: "If you know anything about computers, you're not going to work in a computer shop." He's right of course; you can make much more money elsewhere if you know anything about computers.
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I used to work at Staples during College. They didn't care how many computers, laptops, printers, etc. I sold ... all they cared about was warranties. Honest to gosh, and it really pissed me off, everytime a computer, laptop, or printer walked out of the store without a warranty, my on-floor manager would walk over and give me a lecture ... trying to tell me how to better pitch the warranty so that it wouldn't happen again. I even had one on-floor manager who told me I should never let a customer leave without a warranty ... tell them whatever it takes ... tell them the pc won't last, whatever ... just don't let them leave without that warranty.
My experience has been nothing but good in there (Regent Street), but others have reported problems so I'm perfectly happy to believe I've just been lucky and that flaws exist.
Not a fan post claiming superiority or anything, it's just something I would have been curious to see. Apple make a lot of their 'shopping experience' (ugh, really dislike using the experience word) and it would have been interesting to see how they stacked up.
Cheers,
Ian
A friend of mine was buying a printer at Best Buy a few years ago and needed a USB cable to go with it. The sales drone tried to convince him that he needed to buy one of the "gold" cables... and that going with a cheaper "silver" USB cable would result in blurry photograph prints. My friend (a computer engineer) almost started to explain about digital signals and all that, but decided it was pointless.
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The "printable" link, text is all in one page and no ads:
= MTAzOQ==
/too/ hard on the employee who mentions it to you, their job is on the line.
http://consumer.hardocp.com/articleprint.html?art
On another note, I used to work at Best Buy. I really needed a job at the time and couldn't find work anywhere else. I certainly know my stuff about computer hardware and software, so did a few other employees. One was even a computer science major fresh out of university just waiting for a real job opportunity to come by. Of course, a few employees knew absolutely nothing. So it's sort of a mixed bag, you could get lucky and find an honest and knowledgeable salesperson or you could get someone who knows nothing about computers and just wants to sell you an extended warranty.
On that note, stores are given a quota of extended warranty sales per day (usually they want 10% of profits to be extended warranty. Extended warranties are a major cash cow for these stores. Thus, employees (especially computer and home theatre) are told to promote the extended warranty and go through the checklist of it's features to EVERY customer, even if they flat out refuse upon first mention. So try not to go
My recommendation: buy online, avoid the sales pitch, do the research yourself.
And this is tough when you are holding a crying kid.
If you're trying to buy a computer at the same time as abducting children, then you're just doing too much at once.
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
Ha! I love it! I work at a major store as a big-shot manager type, and I found this article interesting for a number of reasons. What the article describes is a very common problem. The people who truly know about these computers are not working in retail. So, you try to hire people who sound like they know what they're doing and sometimes train them on the rest. The stores with the best trained staff consistantly outperform poorly trained stores. A lack of training often implies a cost leader strategy by the company, and cost leaders rarely outperform quality leaders' profit margins. However, cost leaders can make more profit by volume. Best Buy, in particular, has isolated those who truly understand computers and created a "Geek Squad" that does not spend much time on the sales floor. They want the knowledgable staff to work on the higher margin tech support tasks rather than the low margin sales track. Geeks tend to be better geeks than salespeople.
P.S. Commissioned sales staff tend to make a LOT more money than non-commission. Personal shoppers often work on commission, and their higher payrate gives them more weight to fight for you (the customer) when going through beauracracy or other paperwork functions.
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It has since closed down, but it was almost a game going to the Future Shop in Eugene, Oregon. For instance I went in to help my Dad get a printer for his computer. Salesman almost immediatly walks out sounding off how this certain printer was great, and oddly enough one of the most expensive. He continues to go on for about 5 minutes about how he got it for his dads computer never had any problems, works great, blah blah blah.
Cut to a few days later, I go in the next day to get some game or something. I over hear a different salesperson talking someone about a monitor. He continues to go on for about 5 minutes about how he got it for his dads computer never had any problems, works great, blah blah blah. You will notice the verbaitem cut and paste from above. Yep same spiel as the first sales guy almost exactly word for word. It seems, like most sales peoiple those at future shop lacked a soul and just had a clonded soul implanted from a master super salesman. Well maybe not, but I heard that same story a few more times. It has been a while, but I think it was five times I heard that.
Back in college I worked at Circuit City. I was a sales person in the computer department.
We wore a tie, blue blazer and had a name tag with stickers based on our certifications. They actually sent us for week long training at different times or when new products came out. We were tested and didn't receive each "icon" without passing the tests.
Granted, most of it wasn't difficult but it did require some general understanding of what you were doing! I was the only person in my store certified to handle the installs - I used to make so much money just installing graphics cards, etc. These days - how do you know the person knows what to do?
Best Buy introduced the "no hassle" shopping experience. They looked at things from a perspective of "everyone is an hourly employee, no specialized training - all you need to know how to do is work a cash register".
People who were in a hurry (most of the US these days) seemed to like the Best Buy way of shopping better than dealing with someone who could actually help them so Circuit City ended up switching over to the same business model. Notice the blue blazers and ties are gone? Replaced with kids in red polo style shirts who can barely point you in the right direction to find a product.
But hey, this is what America wanted. They didn't want to be bothered by someone asking them questions about what they needed.
Granted, some of the guys at CC did seem like used car salesmen but there were some that were very good at their job.
Hint: if your kid isn't well behaved or routinely cries in stores; leave him at home. On a busy weekend, the last person that a salesperson is going to offer to help is the guy holding a crying brat.
...is when the retail rep asks "What are you going to use the computer for?" I try to toss out a generic answer like "Programming" but that invites more annoying questions like "Well, what type of programming?" It's obvious to me the sales person wants to dazzle me with their expertise in recommending the perfect model for "programming". So whatever, I say "Web programming." Then fun starts because then the ever knowledgable sales person actually points at a specific computer further down the shelf (where the screens are little bigger and the price tags have a few extra digits) and declares "This is one is the best for web programs." Why? I have to ask, purely curious as to how skillfully they can massage a pile of crap into an answer. "That other one is not as fast. See this one is faster for web programs. And this one also has more graphics which is better for like web..." and so on. For my further amusement I have to ask "Does this one have more internet? I need more internet." just to hear incredibly stupid answers like "Yes, this one has more internet." Ok, let's click up the stupidity dial even further: "What about like, email? Does this one have email?" Now the sales person is going to be honest and assure you that "They all have email... but this one has better email." And so on.
Secondly they move people around the store regardless of their knowledge. I wanted to go to the Geek Squad because i did know my way around the inside of a computer and the software. Again, many of the people hired up there didn't know to much. Some were meant only to run half automated "diagnostic" programs and install software. Only a few of us back there actually could fix a computer.
Due to little hours, i was "forced" to go work in a different dept. I was put in Digital Imaging. This was not one of my more knowledgable area. The only reason i was there was to pay my bills. Thanks to a sparked interest in the area and lots of external research, i do know a lot more than most of the other employees in that area.
Best Buy does not offer adequate training to its employees. The training provided is in the form of a online articles and quizzes. Although these are mandatory, they are easily skipped through. Also the articles for computer and cameras are generally outdated to the current hardware on the shelf. This is the only form of technical knowledge training given.
Another thing to consider is that the majority of people coming in to buy a computer have little or no technical knowledge. When asked a question such as "what is hyperthreading?" Most, including myself, resort to a very simple non-technical answer as to not confuse the customer. This is adequate for 90% of the customers. The other 10% first see you as someone without a large amount of computer knowledge. When i can identify the person with a higher knowledge of computers, i tend to use more technical terms and more indepth explainations. Also i do understand that the majority of people at best buy do not have the knowledge for more technical terms and explainations.
As a college student, this is only a job to pay the bills. Most knowledgable people in my store are the same way. The ones that actually know what they're talking about don't usually stick around that long. Just enough to get through school or land a good internship/co-op. All of these reasons would contribute to why many sales associates don't have much computer know-how.
Two words: laptop trouble. That's when buying an extended warranty is a good thing. If you go and buy a laptop, best to spring for the little bit extra for the warranty.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I applaud the amount of effort the author(s) put into this research. I especially found their summary of warrantees a useful bullet.
;-). Yes, this is very anecdotal, but I tell this story to illustrate that nitpicking the salesforce at a B&M store is useless. In fact, unless you go to a specialty store, ANY GENERIC RETAIL SALESFORCE IS CLUELESS! This holds for kitchen appliances (Target), or power tools (Home Depot), bicycles, televisions, etc. I re-realized this when I was shopping for a table saw: The Home Depot doesn't know shit, they sell volume; but the Contracter Tool Supply store spent two hours with two staff members teaching me everything, in explicit detail.
However, I think they approached this as if they were grading the marketing propaganda. What I mean is this: they zeroed in on specifics, marketing specifics: 64 vs 32 bit, Vista, video cards for games, memory upgrades. Asking these sorts of questions is testing to see how well the salespeople know the marketing icons, and if they are gamers.
This is useless: no human being can explain how this marketing BS translates to real-world usage to a newbie in a 30 minute sales session, and no non-newbie is going to ask these questions.
I worked in retail for about a decade and went to many sales conferences. One thing I learned is: it's all about price point. Everyone has a threshold they are willing to spend, and the sales/marketing force tries to push them as high as possible. In my experience in bicycle retail, ~80% of the customers would be more than satisfied with anything at their price point. Pushing them to the next price point serves no one but the salesperson (my commission!).
In my recent experience recommending a computer to a seriously NON TECHIE people, I've found the same is true. Most of these folk were ready to fork over up to $1,000 (thinking there were no machines $1000). I've recommended this approach for 7 or 8 people, two were relatives. Basically, pick the best warantee and buy the machine at your price point.
100% were happy (3/4 bought a DELLs, 1/4 bought an candy-colored iMac
If you really want to be educated, go to a store that specializes in only what you want to buy. Don't rely on generic high-volume retail malls to give you any real information.
I think that is the real conclusion of this B&M research.
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"As much as you'd like to go to your closest strip mall, have a salesperson discern your hardware needs, and walk out with a shiny new computer..."
No, I think I'd rather rub my head with a cheese grater while chewing on aluminum foil.
I work at Best Buy in the Geek Squad, and as far as I can tell, most machines we get when we open the box (for a functionality check) don't have install media. They either have a restore partition, or bug you on first startup to make DVDs. I've always thought that when I'm testing it out (I can't do the media burn unless the customer pays for that), and I click "not right now", it would ask again, and AFAIK, thats SOP - and we may be wrong on that...
If they just don't have media, they come sealed in the box without it - we aren't taking it out at my store.
I'm guessing what is happening is a combination of manufactuers *not* sending reinstall media, and customers either
a) not making it at startup for whatever reason - they don't understand, don't care, or we said ask later and the program never asks later (got to check on that one)
b) no option to make disks, manufacturer only provides partition (really bad if the HD goes, but I've seen this setup on some machines we sell).
The Geek Squad doesn't charge "more" (per SOP and where I work) if you don't have install discs, we just insist that you have legal install media - we don't care where/how you get them. Our fee to install an OS is the same in any situation.
The other confusion may be our modular fee structure (or maybe confusing). We bill per service, but it may be badly broken up, IDK.
There is the HD cost if you are doing COD. Then there is our install fee for the HD - $39 for a desktop, $59 for a laptop IIRC. Finally, it's $59 to install an OS, but again, *you* MUST provide legal install media. We can sell you a boxed XP copy first if need be.
If you have a PSP, the whole thing is covered under that, except you still have to provide legal install media. Due to what I think is beuracratic issues (could be legal, contractual, or just coporate is lazy) we cannot obtain restore discs from the manufacturers for you, the customer has to do that. Some manufacturers charge for restore discs, I've seen quotes from $20-$90 so that may also be the issue, but that clearly IS NOT going to Best Buy.
What we CAN NOT do is pull a CD from the back, slap in your install code and go to town, Activation, and probably legal issues make this a non-starter. This is a PITA all around, and I wish it wasn't so, but those are the rules.
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It's far better for him to indicate uncertainty (in my opinion) than to spout on about stuff that he really isn't sure of. Cut him some slack.
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