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Financials Indicate Microsoft Prepping for War

SpaceAdmiral writes "Microsoft has surprised analysts by forecasting significantly higher expenses in the next fiscal year, an indication that the company might be getting ready to do battle with its online rivals. According to analyst Eugene Munster of Piper Jaffray, 'It looks like Microsoft is going to war with Google.'" From the article: "According to Mark Stahlman of Caris & Company, the fact that Microsoft plans to spend significantly more in 2007 was an indication of renewed aggressiveness in its competitive strategy and an indication that the company was returning to the kind of actions it exhibited before the Justice Department's antitrust lawsuit in the mid- and late 1990's. 'It's pretty clear that Bill is running the company again,' Mr. Stahlman said, referring to Bill Gates, 'and they are going to remake the business. They are being much more combative and much more strategically managed.'"

53 of 349 comments (clear)

  1. Spot the dinosaur by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Business / Microsoft

    Spot the dinosaur
    Mar 30th 2006 | REDMOND
    From The Economist print edition

    Microsoft’s core business is under threat from online software

    IMAGE

    RECENT advertisements for Microsoft show office workers as dinosaurs, stuck in a bygone era. Aptly, it is an accusation that some are now making about the software company itself.

    Microsoft earns more than half its $40 billion or so of annual revenue—and the vast majority of its profits—on just two products: the Windows operating-system and Office, a collection of personal-computer (PC) applications including word-processing and spreadsheet programs. Both, however, are coming under threat from new technologies.

    The pressure Microsoft is facing in its core businesses is similar to one confronted by IBM—another firm that was once synonymous with computing. At the beginning of the 1990s IBM had to face up to the shift from a computing world dominated by mainframes to one dotted by personal computers. In this new world hardware became a low-margin commodity and Microsoft’s operating system took the privileged position. Today, Microsoft still dominates the PC market. But like IBM before it, today’s giant knows that its position is under threat.

    The threat to Microsoft comes from online applications, which are changing how people use computers. Rather than relying on an operating system and its associated application software—bought in a box from Microsoft, and then loaded onto a PC—computer users are increasingly able to call up the software they need over the internet. Just as Amazon, Google, eBay and other firms provide services via the web, software companies are now selling software as a subscription service that can be accessed via a web-browser. Salesforce.com, the best known example of this trend, offers salesforce management tools; other firms offer accounting and other back-office functions; there are even web-based word-processors and spreadsheets. This lowers the economic and technical barriers to entry for firms wanting to compete with Microsoft, as well as diluting the advantages the firm gets from controlling how the computer works.

    These huge shifts in computing take a very long time, because there is so much inertia in the marketplace—the idea of online applications has taken years to get even this far. Microsoft is still in a position that most firms would kill for. Its two main products—Windows and Office—remain fabulously profitable quasi-monopolies. Even if online applications and open-source software make rapid progress, Microsoft would retain a powerful and profitable position for some time.

    For all that, however, online applications clearly threaten the way Microsoft makes its money. Its licensing agreements are geared for a world where software is a physical product, purchased on discs, and paid for at once or in regular instalments. But its online competitors charge each user a subscription: some like Google are even supplying software as a free online service, financed by advertisements. Last month Google acquired the firm that created Writely, a popular online word-processing program that is an obvious potential competitor to Microsoft Word.

    Online competitors have also mastered quick development and deployment times that Microsoft cannot match. Meanwhile open-source software—developed co-operatively and distributed free of charge—is also gaining ground. George Colony, the boss of Forrester, a technology-research firm, believes Microsoft faces the biggest challenge in the firm’s history: “Bill Gates knows how to compete with anyone who charges money for products,” he says, “but his head explodes whenever he has to go up against anyone who gives away product

    1. Re:Spot the dinosaur by Daniel_Staal · · Score: 4, Informative

      Netscape was selling products when Microsoft came along. They didn't start giving away their browser until Microsoft was giving theirs away.

      --
      'Sensible' is a curse word.
    2. Re:Spot the dinosaur by Dis*abstraction · · Score: 3, Informative

      Free for individuals, but not for corporate use. Businesses had to pay for Netscape licenses. If memory serves.

  2. Vista by JediLow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Vista will be out in 2007... doesn't an increased in spending by Microsoft reflect marketing they'd have for a new OS?

    1. Re:Vista by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Vista will be out in 2007... doesn't an increased in spending by Microsoft reflect marketing they'd have for a new OS?

      No. Vista is due out every year, so the increased marketing costs should already be accounted for.

    2. Re:Vista by guice · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Technically MS was expecting to release Vista in '06. If the money was indeed used for marketing, why wasn't it accounted for in last year's forecast?

      I don't think it has much to do with Vista. I think analysts are right in believing this has to do with an oncoming battle for the online market. MS has been trying for it for several years now. I can see them pushing harder once Vista is (finally) out the door.

    3. Re:Vista by WhiteWolf666 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yak Yak Yak.

      I'll believe it when I see it.

      There's nothing new in the MS pipeline. MS loves vaporware, and lately MS hasn't been able to execute.

      Even at the top of it's game, MS would have trouble dealing with the current landscape, and MS is most definitely not at the top of its game right now.

      If MS didn't have huge marketshare and a huge pile of cash they'd be in serious trouble. As it is, MS can coast nearly indefinitely.

      But stop with the "MS is going to kill everyone else 'real-soon-now'". It's
      bullshit, and even MS employees don't believe it anymore.

      Put up or shut up. Your posting as AC; so lets hear these wonderous future plans that caused you to change your business plan.

      --
      WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
  3. Maybe they gave up the battle by nizo · · Score: 3, Funny
    Microsoft has surprised analysts by forecasting significantly higher expenses in the next fiscal year...

    Or maybe they are just planning on migrating services to Linux? Where their announced expenses 5-20% higher than expected?

  4. Need login? bugmenot is your friend by whoever57 · · Score: 2, Informative
    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  5. No no no - wrong conclusion by plankrwf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Or they could be spending more money on patents

    Or they could be spending more money on developing Vista

    Or they don't really think they have a chance in their feud with the European union after all...

    There are more options than "prepping up for war"...

  6. Microsoft is betting on online services by Gunzour · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Their expenses will be related to building out their online services infrastructure and shifting their business strategy to it. There was a good article in Fortune recently about this shift.

    1. Re:Microsoft is betting on online services by truthsearch · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And they'll pay for it with the extra revenue from the release of Vista. As usual they'll use their OS and Office money to fund their other black holes. And they'll keep hoping the other money losers eventually turn a profit, or at least help their OS and Office market share.

    2. Re:Microsoft is betting on online services by shaitand · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "I mean, you write as though Microsoft hasn't built itself into a major multinational corporation from nothing, or brought vast wealth to its principals."

      HAHA You almost had me going. You made it sound almost as if the company wasn't started by a wealthy individual from a wealthy family with almost limitless startup capital. And then your post would almost seem to imply that Microsoft had become a major mulinational corporation through good business practices instead of lies, theft, and where those failed luck.

      Lies and theft got them onboard with IBM, the rest was simply riding the success of the PC. Since they were onboard with IBM when the pc became successful, they were the default choice to load on clones and this carried them through feeble competative OS attempts in the early days. Then of course they have maintained that position since through anti-competative and monopolistic tactics and leveraged that monopoly to spread into other areas.

      This is not exactly the story of some guys starting up a garage business on sweat and pocket lint and then making it to the top by providing something needed at the right time. Almost every step of the way Microsoft/Microsoft founders have succeed through acts that were illegal, immoral, or both.

    3. Re:Microsoft is betting on online services by Jason+Earl · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's *precisely* the reason that investors are getting jumpy about MSFT. MSFT is still priced as a growth stock and Microsoft isn't growing. Microsoft keeps promising that its non-Windows non-Office investments are going to pay off, but for the most part they haven't. Many of Microsoft's investors would rather see the money that currently is being routed into black holes routed into their pockets instead.

    4. Re:Microsoft is betting on online services by truthsearch · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's correct. Until they changed their accounting practices 2 years ago they were not profitable. They were doing Enron-style accounting, especially paying people without counting it as an expense. This has since been fixed. However, historically, most of their vast wealth is built from their stock valuation, not revenue. This has changed a lot over the years, but for many years was true.

      And none of their products break even. Office and Windows turn profits. The rest return very heavy losses. Open an annual report sometime.

      And where do you think we get much of this information from? Industry analysts. They've always known exactly what's going on with Microsoft. They're questionable financial practices have never been a secret.

  7. They are already losing this war by chriss · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the end of TFA:

    The company also noted that its search ad revenue fell during the quarter as it tried to shift its online advertising away from a service provided by Yahoo to the newly developed MSN Ad Center system.

    This may of course change in the future, but I somehow doubt they can touch Google or Yahoo. The whole race for the crown is about the search based ads, not about who uses which search engine. So Microsoft has not only to get a lot of users to use MSN search as their standard search engine, they also have to convince all the advertisers that their system works at least as good or better than those from Google or Yahoo/Overture.

    When Microsoft entered a market late in the past, they always could leverage their market position. It was easier to use the already installed IE then to download another browser, it was easier to use Windows Media Player than to download and install RealPlayer or Quicktime. If Microsoft had no leverage in the market, they used their money: They bought shares in cable companies, started cooperations with mobile phone makers or massively subsidized XBOX/360.

    But what could they use this time? Desktop search integrated into Vista? Standard search in IE7? Lower prices for advertisers? Most likely all, but nothing will give them a real advantage. They will have to really compete and innovate this time, and that is not something they are good at.

    1. Re:They are already losing this war by just_another_sean · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When Microsoft entered a market late in the past, they always could leverage their market position. It was easier to use the already installed IE then to download another browser...

      Yes but you could easily and logically carry that to the next step and say "because MSN search will be the default home page in IE7 they will draw a number of users who simply find it easiest to keep it that way". Heck, my Mom used IE for a couple of years before she realized she could even change the homepage. I would guess that this "default page" strategy will attract at least some portion of advertisers. If nothing else I could see a lot of them investing in all three (google, yahoo and msn).

      Right now (or last I checked anyway) the MSN portal page is the default home page for IE. If MS decides to make their new search page the default in IE7 then that may attract some attention. So I would look for an uptake in MS search based advertising when Vista is released... sometime around or after 2010 that is. :-)

      --
      Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
    2. Re:They are already losing this war by chriss · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yes but you could easily and logically carry that to the next step and say "because MSN search will be the default home page in IE7 they will draw a number of users who simply find it easiest to keep it that way".

      Yes, but this is (as you stated) already the case: msn.com as the standard IE startpage features a "Search the Web" field at the top of the page. If this would be sufficient, MSN/Microsoft search would already be the most popular search engine. But Google managed to catch the top spot. It is much easier to type www.google.com into IE than to download and install software, so I guess the advantage in comfort does not apply here as heavily. I know a number of people who use Firefox as their standard browser, but search not by entering the search term in the field in in Firefox, but call Google manually first. I'm always astonished about that, but they don't seem to mind. Calling an URL is sufficiently low tech to be handled by the majority.

    3. Re:They are already losing this war by Excelsior · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But what could they use this time?...Standard search in IE7?

      You nailed it right there. If you look at IE 7 you see they have the search box like Firefox. Instead of Firefox's default search engine being Google, IE7 defaults to MSN Search. With 85% or more of the market satisfied to stick their default browser, what percentage will take the time to change their default search engine in IE7? I don't know the answer, but I'd bet it is less than half. I don't know about you, but I always use the search box (well, actually the similar Google Toolbar) to start a search.

      And I think that Google knows it, too. Right at this moment, the Google homepage shows an advertisement for Firefox right on their home page! (only visible for non-Firefox users) And Google Pack includes Firefox. Yes, Google knows that Microsoft wants to leverage their monopoly by using IE 7 to drive searches to MSN Search, and Google must do everything they can to prevent it from happening.

    4. Re:They are already losing this war by CaymanIslandCarpedie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm running IE7 beta now and actually noticed something VERY suprising and interesting. The first time I browsed to google.com a little semi-transparent box poped up in the upper right-hand corner basically saying "Click here to make google your default search".

      Not sure if that was a Google or MS feature, but pretty cool and makes switching very easy. Though since I've gone back to the site I haven't seen the message again, so it may just be a one time thing.

      --
      "reality has a well-known liberal bias" - Steven Colbert
    5. Re:They are already losing this war by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Interesting
      The problem here is a cultural one, I'm afraid. A good many of the people I know, and work with in my position in tech support, get a new computer and immediately want to set the home page to Google. Putting a prominent search bar on the MSN site is, to my mind, a long shot at changing the culture. MS fell asleep at the wheel on this one, letting the Internet side fall to the wayside as it busied itself crushing other kinds of competitors.

      Here's the reality. Google isn't just a brand name, it has become a bloody verb. I can only think of a handful of products that have so invaded the consciousness of our culture. Microsoft isn't battling a product, it's battling what is rapidly becoming a multilingual 21st word for "search"

      I'll be honest, short of trying to cripple access to the Google site, which, at this moment, could lead it into legal waters that it might not survive intact, I think MS is screwed, and if it is true that apps will be delivered online, then perhaps the end of its hegemony over the PC world is in site. It was too busy splatting the little fleas biting at its toes when the future came up and bitch-slapped it.

      Part of it, I think, is that Microsoft was never terribly serious about the Internet. Sure they bashed Netscape out of existence, but once that was done, it just left IE to lie fallow. It, as many observers pointed out, fell back on its business plan, pushing Windows as a platform to run Office. The Internet was a gimmick to sell Windows, there for the same reason that virtually every car you buy has a radio in it. In short, MS lost any vision it might have had in the late 1990s, and now it looks doomed to perpetually play catch up to younger, more innovative companies who have found a way to divorce themselves from the platform.

      If Vista is two years late, who cares? Drivers, file systems, file formats and all that stuff that MS and its traditional partners and servants spend their days and nights pondering is pretty damn meaningless. The cycle of interdependency between the hardware, software and MS operating system industries is threatened, and it's that interdependency that has given MS nearly two decades of near-total dominance. It's a Neandertal, trying clumsily to imitate its new, faster competitors.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  8. How? by reldruH · · Score: 2

    How does one get from the fact that Microsoft is planning on spending more money this year than last to the assumption that they must be going to war with Google? If this was Google, everybody would be trying to figure out what new product they were going to come out with (Goobuntu, GInternet, etc). I've got a pretty low opinion of Microsoft, but I try to stick with justifiable reasons to dislike them, not jump to the worst possible conclusion every time they do (or plan to do) something.

    --
    I've always pictured the color of OS zealotry as a sort of bright flamingo pinkish hue
  9. Microsoft started the battle long ago by t0qer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The own a browser.

    First round, they tried to steer the web in their direction. Fortunatly open standards kept things under the public's control.

    IE7 they're starting to get a little better supporting stuff like AJAX, and PNG transparencies. What i'm seeing is a shift in Microsoft from "Let's make all the rules" to "Let's adopt everything".

    Not a long comment, but that's my thoughts on their strategy.

  10. Google? wtf? by moochfish · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they plan to go to war, it's already started. Just look at MS Live, xbox, origami, etc.

    On the other hand, I imagine marketing, shipping, supporting, and even patching a new OS that will be installed on the majority of the world's newest computers will increase costs quite a bit for a company. Let's not forget IE7 and Office Live either.

  11. Bill is Back, Productivity Soars by digitaldc · · Score: 5, Funny

    'It's pretty clear that Bill is running the company again,'

    It's true.
    And to increase productivity, everyone at Microsoft now has their homepages set to /. and their desktop outfitted with three screens.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  12. Google's market share by MCSEBear · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Gee, I saw recently that Google's market share for search is up again and so is Apple's share in mp3 players. Firefox has a climbing share in the web browser market. Microsoft can't dominate every market it enters. As a matter of fact, here lately they've been getting their ass kicked a lot. Does anyone think the original xbox would have sold near that many units if MS hadn't bought Bungie and not allowed them to ship for Mac and PC at the same time as they had planned? Instead we had a very cool game that would only play on xbox. The only way MS wins is by manipulating the free and open markets.

  13. Not really by CastrTroy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The last time I remember them doing any real marketing for their OS was when Windows 95 came out. They didn't really market any of the other OSes all that much. I think the only reason they will have to market this one is because there isn't really any new features, and the old version is pretty stable. Also, the fact that you need a high powered computer to run the new UI (the only new feature) means that they're won't be a lot of people buying it off the shelf, only people who buy new computers. You don't have to market it to the person buying a new computer, because they are going to buy windows anyway, and the only version offered will be Vista.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  14. Re:No no no - wrong conclusion by truthsearch · · Score: 3, Interesting
    From TFA:

    After Microsoft released its report, Mr. Sherlund issued a research note saying it appeared that the company planned to spend $2.4 billion more than he had expected in the 2007 fiscal year. He pointed to the costs of building the new Windows and Office Live online services, both intended to reposition the company to compete against Google and Yahoo.

  15. War Cry by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Funny

    According to recent rumors, Bill Gates is purchasing a Bradley Fighting Machine. He believes that it will provide Microsoft a leg-up in their war with Google. When asked about the situation, Larry Page responded with "we don't make forward looking statements." He was standing in front of an M-5 tank.

    In other news, Google has announced the release of the F-22 Raptor Beta(TM) program which allows for anyone with an internet account to remotely control an F-22 fighter. Anti-war groups have expressed a fear that teenagers remotely flying armed warplanes could pose a threat to world peace. Google responded by stating that the weapons systems are locked out except when over the testing range at Latitude 47.6 by Longitude -122.1.

  16. More expenses? I have a couple of guesses by erroneus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe even three.

    1. More money to lobbyists and politicians
    2. More money for lawyers in more lawsuits and appeals
    3. Start paying down the fines in EU that won't go away any other way.

  17. I for one welcome our Microsoft overlords by Enrique1218 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Oh wait... They already are our overlords and they suck at it. Oh, nevermind!!!

    --
    You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
  18. Google is only one front, there are many others... by postbigbang · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Here are the issues, pick anyone:

    1. Launch the most expensive product in your history (in terms of development dollars)
    2. Try to prevent nearly-free server operating systems from eating your lunch
    3. Pay off the EU fine (just a paltry $700 million or so)
    4. Launch a new version of your flagship application (Office Vista?)
    5. Stem the losses from your flagship gaming appliance (Xbox360)
    6. Make your Longhorn into steak
    7. Continue to avoid the wrath of various litigation efforts, some which you will lose...

    And there are many more, but these are sufficient to need to build a war chest, Google's success notwithstanding.

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  19. Say Goodbye To The Xbox 360 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It wouldn't be so bad if the stock wasn't flat to declining over the past five years.

    But the lack of growth means Microsoft is having to spend more and more of its large amounts of cash on:

    1) Dividend increases
    2) Stock buybacks

    When you have around 10-11 billion shares issued to fuel your growth over the past couple of decades that ends up being many, many billions of dollars the company needs to keep spending every year just to keep shareholders from dumping the company and putting their money in real growth companies, like Google.

    The Xbox project has been the number one financial sore spot for the company for the past five years. The financial press has been wondering when a grownup is going to take charge up there in Redmond and clean house for the company. It sounds like Microsoft is finally starting that process.

    The days of the company throwing billions of dollars at marketplace failures like the Xbox and Xbox 360 are going to be coming to an end. Microsoft's core business monopolies are now no longer just being chipped away at but under direct assault. It will be interesting to see Microsoft awoken. The Ballmer era of the past five years or so has had the company acting like a aging and bumbling fool.

  20. Cue "Ride of the Valkyries" by spun · · Score: 3, Funny

    And Ballmer shouting, "I love the smell of Vista in the morning. It smells like victory."

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  21. This is stupid by XMilkProject · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Classic slashdot... Microsoft says they will be spending more money next year, so we get articles formulating elaborate stories about Bill Gates taking over the company again and using his monopoly to break anti-trust laws and kill the little guy, etc, etc.

    This is just random bullshit speculation, might it just be that microsoft is in the middle of some of the largest product launches in their history, with SQL server, new development tools, a huge new Operating system, new web browsers, and a new website www.live.com.

    I suppose it would just be too logical that they might be spending money marketing and supporting all these huge new endeavors.

    --
    Big ones, small ones, some as big as yer 'ead!
    Give 'em a twist, a flick o' the wrist...
  22. Windows monopoly is secure by jimmyhat3939 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    As an experiment, I recently tried switching to a Gnome-based Linux system to replace my Windows desktop. I do a bunch of fairly standard office tasks -- spreadsheets, word processing, email, etc. But I do have some specific needs, such as needing to use a particular scanner, save files to a SMB share, etc.

    Using Linux was an unmitigated disaster. Things that seem like absolutely basic functionality don't work right. I spent literally 40+ hours poring over online forums trying to figure out how to get pieces of software to work right together. OpenOffice pops up random dialog boxes when you try to save to a file share, Flash doesn't really work right on Linux under Firefox, Evolution doesn't like having its email repository stored on a share, etc, etc.

    Then there are the user interface difficulties. Windows and OSX are the only 2 OSes I'm aware of where companies actually have done meaningful user testing to verify what works and what doesn't. Gnome and KDE are nice window managers, but they're just not set up right for office tasks. Sure I can sit around and change everything from the icons' sizes to the taskbar size, but who wants to spend days configuring their computer like that?

    And don't even get me started on file associations (what program runs when you double-click on a file with a given extension). No matter what I tried, I couldn't get Gnome to let me change the file associations for files on an SMB share. And, it's absolutely opaque how to change them for regular files too without resorting to editing text files in /usr/share/blahblah.

    As for this perceived threat from webapps, I don't think Microsoft should be worried at all. Even the mighty Google knows that trying to reimplement MS Office using Ajax would be an absolute disaster. And, think about it. How would I make my scanner scan files into Word? Does Javascript have an Ajax routine "useScanner()"? How about if I want to fax something to someone?

    Personally, I dislike Microsoft's monopolist tactics. But, I have to admit, Windows is a better office OS than Linux (Gnome or KDE), and it's not even close. It's just that simple.

    --
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    1. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by jimmyhat3939 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      How about instead of moderating my post as "flamebait", giving me some insight into how I'm wrong.

      To be clear, I *WANT* to use Linux as my desktop. I've used Linux for development purposes since 1995, and I'm a big fan of open source. I'm not trying to start a flamewar; I'm trying to understand how we could have a meaningful alternative to Linux.

      --
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    2. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It was unfair to mod you down, but at the same time, your's is not a universal experience. I have used *nix software for some time, and while there's no doubt problems with the interface, it's not really like Windows has some sort of foolproof one. What seems to be the key difference is that people are used to the Windows GUI, and that the metric being used isn't actually usability, but rather familiarity.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by Com2Kid · · Score: 2, Informative

      Microsoft said awhile back that Open Office is "10 years behind Microsoft Office".

      They are right.

      Open Office's interface is horrible. Inconsistent. 2.0 is an improvement, but what wouldn't be an improvement? I remember when Sun first released Star Office for free. It was a decent alternative to MS Office at the time.

      Back in what, 1998?

      It wasn't even a fully featured replacement then. OOo has gotten better, but it still needs a ton of work.

      This is not even mentioning that MS just revolutionized the entire idea of an office app UI with their ribbon concept. Yes I said revolutionized, I use Office 12, and it freaking rocks. Ok it is beta code and is slower than heck and a huge resource hog, but it still opens about as fast as OOo does. That is sad. Very sad.

      Gnome is one of the more polished UIs for Linux as well. Fairly consistent, well, within any one given version, they seem to like doing UI changes every version number. Whatever. It still is professional looking and reasonably usable.

      Linux rocks for development. Multiple desktops, tabbed console windows. Those two alone are killer features for a programmer. (I have multiple desktop support up and running on Windows, but I do missed tabbed console windows!)

      It sucks for pretty much everything else

    4. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by tacokill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seconded. I "get" Linux and use it for some things I do. I am very proficient in getting it to do what I want it to do. BUT the usability of the OS as a desktop stinks. It is nowhere close to Microsoft in that realm. KDE/Gnome/whatever....I don't care. It's still not close (Aqua excluded).

      Great for servers. Terrible for desktops. And I don't even want to imagine taking support calls from my employees using Linux. It's hard enough to walk someone through "simple" things in Windows, much less Linux.

      I can only imagine the call:

      Me: "Yea, so go in and edit your /etc/fstab"
      them: "What do you mean edit?"
      Me: "Open Gedit, and modify the file"
      them: "So how do I open Gedit?"
      Me: (sigh) "I quit"


      I am just now starting to see most people grasp the concept of files and directories. And that's people who have been working on "business" computers for most of their adult lives. Never underestimate how clueless the typical computer user is and always overestimate how much time you have to spend with them to do the simplest things.

    5. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Most of your problems seem to stem from trying to work with SMB shares under Linux. Now imagine a Linux user switching to Windows and trying to get the apps to work smoothly with NFS shares from Windows using only built-in features of the OS. The Linux user would naturally conclude that Windows sucks or is unuseable.

      Your file association problems are probably a result of Gnome's overzealous dumbing down of its features. I suggest sticking with KDE. At least none of the Linux file associations have trashed hundreds of thousands of systems due to security holes with buggy file association auto-launching the way Windows has.

    6. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by FatherOfONe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ok, I need to understand a few things about your Linux experience. But before I do I want to tell you about a friend of mines "windows" experience. He got his brand new computer with Windows installed on it.

      It didn't come with Microsoft Office, and he just assumed that it would have that package. He was a bit taken back by the fact that to do Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Access he would have to shell out another $500-$600.
      He connected to the Internet and was off in running after a few hours of work, and suddenly he started to think how much Windows sucked. The problem you ask? Well he started to get all these "Windows" on the screen that prevented him from working. He also noticed that his computer was now crawling along, and much slower than it use to be. He has no clue of pop-ups and spyware. He does now. He went to load a "new" game and found that the his "video driver" from ATI was beyond buggy and crashed so much that he needed to reload Windows with a recovery CD. (The only CD provided by the manufacturer). He then realized that recovery meant "loose all your data on your HD). Now all this guy wanted to do was surf the web, use and office package, email and print.

      Now back to your problems. What exactly was your issues? What distro did you install? You say that you want to use Linux, then you have taken a giant leap forward and I can say without a doubt that almost every online support group is very friendly to new linux users. I would also trying a distro like Ubuntu.

      Also what exactly do you want to do with your computer?
      What hardware are you installing it on?

      Lastly, be prepared to hear that Linux may not be the OS for you. If you want all the simplicity of a Macintosh and know that all the Mac hardware you buy will work without ANY hassle, then you probably should go out and buy a Macintosh. Does this mean that Linux sucks? Nope, it just isn't a fit for you. Now if you want to play all the latest games and don't mind fighting spyware, viruses and stability issues, then Windows is probably the best for you.

      The advantage of Linux is that there will be competition. RedHat, SuSE, Ubuntu, et all are fighting to provide the best experience, and thus things are improving rapidly in the Linux world. Much much much faster than either Microsoft or Apple, and to be honest it amazes me that Linux has come so far so fast. So if Linux isn't for you today, then perhaps next month....

      --
      The more I learn about science, the more my faith in God increases.
    7. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by jimmyhat3939 · · Score: 4, Informative
      I dont want to get into some huge thing here, but here's some info. I used Fedora Core 5. I'm extremely familiar with Linux, having used it to do development and as a server platform continuously since 1995. It's the best platform for those two tasks, in my opinion, bar none.

      So, I decided to try using it as a desktop product, now that I'm doing more "office" type tasks. Those elements I found very difficult, as described in my original post. Some stuff I figured out, after fooling around with config files. Other things I just couldn't fix. An example is the fact that when you're using OpenOffice Calc and try to save a file to an SMB share, it pops up windows about not being able to save a backup copy of the file. Yes, I checked all the permissions. Yes, I mounted the SMB share both by using Gnome's built-in smb:// interface and just sticking it in fstab. No, I don't have time to go through OOo's source code and fix the bug. I have a job.

      Just installing the thing and getting a good set of apps on it took about 8 hours. I followed a guide posted online. It worked well, but that's 8 hours I'll never get back.

      I think people are fooling themselves when they say people are just more familiar with Windows. As between Windows and OSX, I can accept that argument, since in my experience OSX works pretty well. Gnome and KDE are a different story. It's not just familiarity. It's the fact that they have serious bugs and problems that affect everyday users and make using them really hard.

      --
      Free Conference Call -- No Spam, High Quality
    8. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by Scarblac · · Score: 2, Informative

      Let the clueless use Windows, I don't care. Just don't say that that is the entire measure of what constitutes "ready for the desktop".

      Personally I don't feel at ease in Windows because there _isn't_ a simple text file I can edit by hand to make something do exactly what I want.

      At the software company I work for, 80%+ of the people run Linux on their desktops, and it works fine. Just that the clueless need something limited, doesn't mean that the more complex stuff out there is bad. It just means it's not for the clueless.

      --
      I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
    9. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by kcbrown · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Just installing the thing and getting a good set of apps on it took about 8 hours. I followed a guide posted online. It worked well, but that's 8 hours I'll never get back.

      Different distributions have different strengths and weaknesses.

      Package installation is not one of Fedora's strengths, and never has been.

      For that, the title goes to Debian and its derivatives (Ubuntu, in particular).

      So because your mission is different, I think you might do well to look at a different distribution, like Ubuntu.

      --
      Use 'slashdot stuff' in the subject line in any email you send me if you want to get past the spam filter.
    10. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by Xyde · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Most of your problems seem to stem from trying to work with SMB shares under Linux. Now imagine a Linux user switching to Windows and trying to get the apps to work smoothly with NFS shares from Windows using only built-in features of the OS. The Linux user would naturally conclude that Windows sucks or is unuseable.

      This is a red herring. OS X also uses samba for SMB shares and there are never any issues reading/writing from any application (that i have encountered)

    11. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by the_womble · · Score: 2, Informative
      I'm extremely familiar with Linux, having used it to do development and as a server platform continuously since 1995.

      I have used a Linux desktop for the last 5 years, starting with a retail copy of Mandrake and knowing almost nothing about Linux/Unix. While there have been problems, it has not overall, been any more hassle than Windows. This is why people suspect you of trolling - your experience is so much worse than ours or that of anyone we know that it seems highly improbable.

      and try to save a file to an SMB share

      All the specific problems you have mentioned over the course of several posts have to do with SMB shares. OK, so at most all we know is that there are problems with SMB in FC 5. Going from that to "Linux sucks as a desktop" is a big leap.

      Just installing the thing and getting a good set of apps on it took about 8 hours

      I only took about three hours to install Mandrake with all the apps we needed on all four PCs in my small office a year and a half ago. Its not what I would do now - the way to use Linux in that environment is to have a single server and x terminals but I was still too much in the Windows mindset then.

      Installing Ubuntu is faster. In fact if you have something else to do while waiting for the install, the actual amount of time you spend doing anything is very small.

      Gnome and KDE are a different story... they have serious bugs and problems that affect everyday users and make using them really hard.

      I found the Linux desktops I have used, the default KDE desktop on Mandrake and the Gnome Desktop in Ubuntu to be very productive - not just for me but for several people in a small business and several more home users. Your not liking Linux desktops is just a matter of taste or bad luck.

    12. Re:Windows monopoly is secure by swelke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I recently spent about 20 hours (including 2 reinstallations) trying to get a sound driver on Windows to work properly. Does that mean Windows is a bad OS? No, it just means that it has its flaws. Keep this in mind: one flaw that happens to really bug you doesn't mean that the underlying product is without value.

      --
      Have you ever wondered How to Take Over
  23. Intersting effect on the stock too... by Mr.+Flibble · · Score: 3, Informative

    MSFT took a hammering today as it lost 11% of its value today - it remains to be seen if this is a permanent fall or not.

    [url]http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060428/microsoft.html ?.v=4[/url]

    Almost makes MSFT look like a value stock... (That is, if you can evalutate MS on technical merits and not knee-jerk "Linux r00ls M$ SuX0rs!!!" criteria.)

    However, I personally wonder if Mac OS X won't take a larger chunk out of MS in the coming future... What do you guys see in the crystal ball for Microsofts Future?

    --
    Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
  24. Re:Interesting effect on the stock too... by robertjw · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Almost makes MSFT look like a value stock...

    All my Linux opinions aside, what is there about Microsoft that would project any growth? Vista is late and has had most of the mildly interesting features stripped out. The Office suite is about as bloated and ridiculous as you could possibly make word processing and spreadsheets. I don't see much for revenue there. I don't know if the Xbox has actually made any money yet. There was a bunch of noise about Groove and Ray Ozzie a while back, but we haven't seen anything come from that yet. AdCenter is just getting started, a little late. The only thing anybody seems moderately excited about it is IE7 (oh, and the fact the godaddy converted to Windows Servers).

    While Microsoft may be a value stock based on previous performance, the competency of their leadership as businessment and the tremendous resources available, I wouldn't make any such judgements on their technical merits.

  25. And Their Stock Price Takes the Hit! by twitter · · Score: 3, Informative
    An eleven percent stock price fall has stunned Bill. Once bitten, twice shy, investors doubt Bill will ever share the wealth. Those investors might also have doubts about Vista as they scratch their heads and think twice about moving their own computers to the new same old, same old. From the article:

    Shares in Microsoft Corp. (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research) slid more than 11 percent on Friday, their biggest drop in more than five years, after the software giant said earnings would be hurt by increased investments aimed at fending off rivals such as Google Inc. ... The move shocked Wall Street, which had hoped to benefit from the company's biggest product releases in years, with its Vista operating system and Office 2007 scheduled for January. ... "This is still a company that is extremely profitable. What people are worried about is whether that ever flows through ... to the benefit of shareholders, or does the company spend that money," said Charles Di Bona, an analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein.

    No doubt disspointing reviews of Vista and DRM'd content are part of the fizzle.

    The long predicted downward spiral has begun. Employees are leaving for greener fields, product sucks and the competition is better. It will only get worse for them. They had their chance to fix things back when they promissed to take care of security four (five?) years ago. Instead of fixing, they wasted their time and energy with more anti competitive junk like Bitblocker, Paladium and lock box media. Their efforts to expand into the server market flopped and so will their efforts to expand into the kinds of services they derided back in 2000. Such a spiral could not have happened to a nicer company.

    The Microsoft idiots thought they were going to come out swinging and are surprised that people are tired of being punched in the nose.

    --

    Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.

  26. Energy is being lost to the universe by achesloc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Different distributions have different strengths and weaknesses. Package installation is not one of Fedora's strengths, and never has been. For that, the title goes to Debian and its derivatives (Ubuntu, in particular). So because your mission is different, I think you might do well to look at a different distribution, like Ubuntu.

    Dude. That is his point. There shouldn't be mission level granularity. It should just work for some things. I have had similar experiences and I only use linux for development or web-based applications. As far as using it for desktop, forget it. People have jobs, families, wives and girlfriends. Linux is the biggest double-work creation system in the world. Think of all the times people are recreating the exact same problems nearly simultaneously. There is energy being lost to the universe. Some day that will change, but it doesn't appear to be any time soon.

    1. Re:Energy is being lost to the universe by pcmanjon · · Score: 2, Informative

      "As far as using it for desktop, forget it. People have jobs, families, wives and girlfriends. "

      I have a job, a car I work on in spare time, a girlfriend, and volunteer work I do. I still have time to use linux. Linux works for me. I do gaming on it, host my own webserver, office, chat, and everything else you do on your workstation probably.

      I don't see the problem. People act like Linux is the most complicated OS ever. I guess they just don't know how to use the tools included in linux. It makes sense anyway, if you don't know how to use a tool, it's useless to you.

      It's ignorance in use that only makes it the wrong choice for you. I learn more about linux/unix every day, and it feels better in the end. I use to be a Windows user, but it's not as satisfying as linux has become for me.

      Just my thoughts