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Using Laptops to Steal Cars
Ant writes "Thieves are using laptops/notebooks to steal the most expensive luxury cars. Many of these cars have completely keyless ignitions and door locks, meaning it can all be done wirelessly. Thieves often follow a car until it gets left in a quiet area, and they can steal it in about 20 minutes..."
20 minutes to remove the laptop from the bag, smash the window and pound on the steering column with it? They must be using those modern, fancy-pants, lightweight laptops. In the old days we could get a car in under 5 minutes with a Mac Portable.
Trolling is a art,
And thats why people will want a regular key. Its worked for hundreds of years on other things, so a car should be no problem.
All they really need to do is start randomizing the locks on cars, and not just use the same pattern...
yea, expensive, but safe.
Yay, I have a sig.
Laptops are evil.
Fortunately, friendly Republican senators are even now pushing a bill through Congress to outlaw these devil-machines. Always looking out for our interests, those guys.
Note to mods: I'm probably being sarcastic.
I saw a video from a conference in Germany that has to do with infared hacking. It's quite interesting if you have the time to watch it.
I've been under the impression that thieves steal cars to strip them for parts, as its impractical to re-sell a stolen car as a whole.
/20 minutes and a laptop? //more like 2 minutes, a brick and a screwdriver
Are parts for luxury cars that specialized? I thought most parts were more or less universal these days. Does a H3 take a special spark plug or something?
This is exactly why my daughter will not have a keyless chastity belt...
Text of article:
High-tech thieves are becoming increasingly savvy when it comes to stealing automobiles equipped with keyless entry and ignition systems. While many computer-based security systems on automobiles require some type of key -- mechanical or otherwise -- to start the engine, so-called 'keyless' setups require only the presence of a key fob to start the engine.
The expert gang suspected of stealing two of David Beckham's BMW X5 SUVs in the last six months did so by using software programs on a laptop to wirelessly break into the car's computer, open the doors, and start the engine.
"It's difficult to steal cars with complex security, but not impossible. There are weaknesses in any system," Tim Hart of the Auto Locksmith Association told the U.K.'s Auto Express magazine. "At key steps the car's software can halt progress for up to 20 minutes as part of its in-built protection," said Hart.
Because the decryption process can take a while -- up to 20 minutes, according to Hart -- the thieves usually wait to find the car in a secluded area where it will be left for a long period. That is believed to be what happened to Mr. Beckham -- the crooks followed him to the mall where he was to have lunch, and went to work on his X5 after it was parked.
While automakers and locksmiths are supposed to be the only groups that know where and how security information is stored in a car, the information eventually falls into the wrong hands.
According to the Prague Post leaving such information on a laptop is what got Radko Souek caught for stealing several cars. "You could delete all the data from your laptop, but that's not good for you because the more data you have, the bigger your possibilities," he says. He says any car that relies on software to provide security can be circumvented by other software. "Every car has its weak spot," he says. Souek faces up to 12 years in prison.
The Leftlane Perspective: Many modern cars now rely on software entirely for security. Gone are the days where microchips supplemented mechanical locks as an additional security measure. In the case of true 'keyless' systems, software is the only thing between a thief and your car. As computers become more powerful, will stealing cars become even easier? Never mind future cars with better security -- what about today's cars a few years down the road? With cars as inexpensive as the Toyota Camry offering entirely keyless systems, these concerns a relevant to all consumers.
Posted anonymously to avoid karma whoring.
Are they referring to their server? 5 minutes after the link arrived on /. and I already get a timeout error.
".torrent?"
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
"While automakers and locksmiths are supposed to be the only groups that know where and how security information is stored in a car, the information eventually falls into the wrong hands."
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
My updated keyless 1968 Rambler 550 classic is going to be stolen soon?
Guess I'll havee to down grade.
It's not like 99% of keyed systems were very secure. Except for the newer laser/dimple keys, thieves are going to easily get into your car.
I remember seeing on TV a news thing they did with a former car thief. He said that a car with a club, a brake pedal lock and an alarm system were the most secure. Not because they were un-stealeable, but because it wasn't worth the time or effort.
Maybe Car MFGs will get serious about security in the future, but I doubt it. The only business they lose is from people who see the top ten most stolen cars and think "I don't want one of those". Otherwise, stolen cars = money for them, mechanics and part manufacturers.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
...favorite Knight Rider joke here: "Michael, someone's trying to connect to me via Wi-Fi and and override my locking mechanism!"
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
1. What kind of embedded os they are running? I am at total loss with modern cars.
2. It seems that this problem is more solvable than attacks on computers from the Internet, because the car hackers have the following disadvantages
*) less time to hack
*) less time to use the car after hacking
*) more visibility and danger of immediate apprehension
*) even the most luxurious cars are of a less source of income (after stealing) compared to what modern hackers can earn
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
That's only allowed in Soviet Russia.
There are reports out of Nebraska today that people with laptops have been seen plugging them into airport electrical outlets, and stealing electrons in an unguarded airport. The Department of Homeland Insecurity has declined to comment on the matter.
Details at 6:00
Oh You POS
And that's insecure? Your run-of-the-mill car can be broken into in about 20 seconds. How'd I know? I managed to leave my keys in my car and called AAA. The guy showed up and had it open in under 20 seconds, just using a coathanger.
From that POV, give me the fancy-pants stuff any time.
There is a student on campus that was bragging that he could do just as the article describes. A professor put down $100 and bet the student that he couldn't get into his car in 15 min without breaking anything. The student took the bet. Needless to say, the whole class was out in the parking lot 5 min later to watch. It took the student about 5 minutes. The car chirped and the lights flagshed. I assume this meant the doors had been unlocked. Next, the car started, the student opened the door and got it.
This was really cool to see live. There is a something about seeing it done live that is very impressive.
I am a viral sig. Please help me spread.
If for no other reason than to steal the headlights & rims.
A friend of mine knew some people that would go out in a 4 man team to steal rims. They had an expensive hydralic jack and some power tools. He said they were shady guys, but would do a NASCAR Pit Crew proud.
And that's not even the pro's.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Why go through the hassle? It's WAY easier to back up to a car with a flatbed or wheel lifts to steal a car. You can lift the drive wheels and be gone in 30 seconds or less. You can then override the rest of the system at your leisure.
All I need it to do is advise me of its location, and if it's not where I think it should be, I want to snap a picture of whoever's in the driver's seat. Then, I'll either fax that picture and the car's location to the cops, or just wait for the perp to leave the car and go take it back myself.
Of course, wiring a 2 or three farad capacitor into the steering column so that I could zap him unconscious would be fun, too.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Im pretty sure the fact that it is a Prius is the best deterrent against theft you can have.....
And thats why people will want a regular key. Its worked for hundreds of years on other things, so a car should be no problem.
No, they're not safe. The key merely turns a lock that closes a contact telling the computer it's okay to proceed. After my 2001 Sukuki GSXR was stolen and recovered, I had to learn a thing about hot-wiring ignitions because the thieves had changed the locks. Within the ignition tumbler was a small PCB that connected circuits to ground for parking lights, accessories and the ignition. The added "security" was that a resistor was used in the circuit for the ignition.
Turns out, the wiring harness for the ignition has a molex connector underneath the right side fairing, right about where my fairing had been shattered by blunt-force-trauma. With nothing more than some knowledge, a spare connector, some wires, a switch and a specifically rated resistor, you could build a plug that would "start" any modern GSXR in about 20 seconds.
Keys are no safer. As far as the computers are concerned, they're either on or off. RFID, challenge/response, better encryption, failed-attempt lockouts, these things are going to become more common because they do a better job slowing the thieves down.
These opinions guaranteed or your money back.
The scam when I was young was to take a crane truck, grab a nice new vette and take it out to the toolies flip it upside down in a ditch and gut it. Took about 20 min to remove the running gear.
... Standards and Practices !
It was kinda cool to come across a vette upside down looking like an old crab shell with all the guts missing.
PenGun
Do What Now ???
Finally, I pour some cod liver oil on the upholstery and lock a couple of cats in it for a few days (with the windows cracked and plenty of food and water - I'm not mean.)
That just about puts an end to anyone's desire to steal my cars.
posted anonymously so THEY won't find me.
at least they upgraded from the old method, standing there with your PSX pad pressing 'X'
I never understood, why bother trying to start the cars at all when you're stealing them for parts? Isn't it a lot easier and quicker to just hook up a tow truck and off you go, 20 mins later it's a pile of parts anyway. Seems like a waste of time and effort to start it.
I can see if you're a teen going for a joyride. but not a "pro"
Cool! The resale value of my 10-year-old car just went up!
Chief auto theft deterant device: Driving a ten year old, Monkey Shit Brown Oldsmobile Delta 88 with flower vases in the rear window and a "Support the Troops" ribbon on the trunk lid.
KFG
Now all I need is an article explaining how to swipe a laptop.
>While automakers and locksmiths are supposed to be the only groups that know where and how security information is stored in a car, the information eventually falls into the wrong hands.
If you replicate a "secret" a few million times, put it in places outside your control, and if you have no way of changing it in the field then you do not have a secret!
>"...There are weaknesses in any system," Tim Hart of the Auto Locksmith Association told the U.K.'s Auto Express magazine.
What, Mr. Hart, are the weaknesses in OpenSSH public key authentication? It sounds like the automakers are trying to roll their own crypto, with the usual results. Designing a crypto system is like playing chess with a grandmaster. You'll make a mistake somewhere, and your opponent will find that mistake and use it to break you.
As long as people make blunders like this we'll have fiascos like the TI chips with 40-bit encryption.
I would just use my tow truck...
A car getting towed often gets noticed, but a guy with a laptop parked in the next space doesn't...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Cars use similar systems to garage door openers. They are immune to pure replay attacks. And they have a 48-bit keyspace, only about 6 bits worth of which is active at a time (about 30 or so codes out of the keyspace will work at a time).
So you are looking at hitting a 1 in 2^42, or 1 in 4 trillion needle in a haystack.
Even if you rifle through codes, you're not going to hit one soon.
And if the system is designed to lock out after 3 failures, and make you wait 5 seconds to try another key, that means you won't stand much of a chance of rifling through the codes in your lifetime.
So, if these systems have flaws right now, it's in implementation, not design, and it'll be rapidly fixed.
BTW, for about 15 years there were only about 40 different door keys on all GM cars. We happened to have two at once that had the same door key (although they didn't use the same ignition key, GM used a two key system at the time). So this electronic system is still pretty much better, the only downside, is there is no deterrent to sitting a few feet from a car and trying to open it electronically versus putting a key in the door of the car and trying to turn it.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I hate to break it to you but I found her "Hide-A-Key". You chose an obvious place to try to hide it.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
I think his point is it's not that much different with a luxury car then it is with a more traditional car. If you know what you are doing, it only takes a minute or two to steal a car. Here's a video of some amaturish appearing kids stealing a car in about 2 minutes. A minute of that was working the lock and about 40 seconds was working the ignition wires. If it's a quite area, just breaking the window takes a second or two.
In reality the only differences between the two types of theft is the amount of money spent on the vehicle, and the amount of time no one notices (or cares about) someone working on it. 20 minutes or 2 minutes, either way your car is gone.
And I can implement a system that locks out ssh from any IP address that tries more than 3 wrong passwords. That won't stop someone from exploiting a vulnerability in Apache or PHP, and rooting the box. It also won't stop someone from trying passwords from the console, if I didn't set that up as well...
If you had bothered to read the article- the whole point is that theives are exploiting weaknesses in the systems and doing so successfully. Some early systems were hilariously bad; GM's first attempt involved a resistor at the base of the key, and the ECU would simply check if the resistance was correct.
You remind me of the Iraqi Ambassador, with buildings getting shelled behind him, declaring that the Americans are being repelled and have not entered Baghdad. Cars are being stolen right now, despite all the lockouts and "rules" car manufacturers have imposed.
See, modern cars have variable valve timing, coil-on-plug ignition, and a whole bunch of other stuff that simply will not work without the cooperation of the computer.
Variable Valve timing and coil-on-plug ignition do not make a car harder to steal; you still need fuel and a spark, and if the ECU won't allow the car to start, it won't allow the car to start; a 2007 A6 with direct-injection, Variable Valve Timing, Variable Intake Geometry, Coil-on-Plug ignition, etc is no harder to "force" to start than my '91 Audi with none of the above; both ECUs will simply not allow fuel or spark. Plus all of these components are 'stupid'; they're just valves and whatnot. It is not cost-effective to make each coil-pack module demand authentication from the ECU. The manufacturer's job is to make it difficult to steal a car; the rest is society's job (ie low motivation to steal, public awareness ie people notice someone doing something they shouldn't, and last but not least, government- ie police, courts, jail, legislation.)
Futhermore, dealerships use computerized scan tools to communicate with the various modules in the cars. When the owner uses the wrong key 6 times in a row to try and unlock his shiny new Mercedes- they don't package the car up, slap a UPS label on it, and send it back to Germany...nor do they do that with any of the computer modules like you implied; it honestly sounds like you had no idea what you were talking about and confusing RADIO lockouts (where MANY radios WOULD permanently lock themselves if too many incorrect keycodes were entered, and had to be sent to "repair" centers.) The dealer tech plugs in a computer, possibly calls a hotline and validates himself to get a code based off the vehicle VIN number or a code the ECU spits out, aka challenge/response - and then unlocks the security system. VW uses a particular system that is almost completely emulated by software packages like VAG-COM and ProDiag, and both can be used to re-associate a dashboard and ECU without any dealer involvement.
Anti-theft is about theft deterrent; as we network people say, "you can't stop a big enough hammer." There are now towing/recovery companies using tow-trucks that have crane, reach over the car, the tow truck operator slips arms under each wheel, and then the crane picks the car directly up and plops it on the back of the tow truck. You can do almost the same thing with a regular flatbed tow truck and a set of wheel dollies (designed for moving cars that can't be started, have been crashed, etc.)
Please help metamoderate.
My first car was a Ford Pinto with an unbreakable anti-theft system. Every so often, at seemingly random times, it would stall and couldn't be started for approx 24 hrs. It usually did this in the worst possible places (left lane of highway, busy intersection, etc). Any thief who could bypass this system could have had the car if he only told me how he did it because no mechanic was ever able to figure it out.
On a good note I did get to use 100% of my free AAA tows for that year.
My wife's Honda Civic has a similar feature that prevents it from being started if you leave the cruise control on. The cruise control button "on" light is dim and well hidden behind the steering wheel for extra security.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
No it isn't. It takes 20 seconds to cut through the steering wheel to remove it.
This is very true - happened to me. You would not believe how expensive a factory steering wheel is! $1000+ Only insure companies ever buy them.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
You need to build up it's self esteem. Talk nicely to it, tell it what a good car it is. Buy it some premium when it's being good.
Don't belittle or yell at your car when it's naughty, a firm "No!" perhaps followed up by thwacking it in the grill with a rolled up newspaper should suffice to let the poor auto know it has been bad without destroying it's self esteem.
When the time comes and your car starts to notice cars of the opposite sex, do not make this a big deal, that can cause deep seated insecurities in any automobile. Let it know that the feelings it is having are natural and no big deal.
It will also help if the car does not have to worry about it's old age and retirement. Let your car know you have invested some money for it to live off of when it leaves the workforce.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Late to the punch, I realize, but I used to do odd (electronics) jobs for a car stereo/alarm dealer, where I learned a great deal about car alarms.
No, car alarms don't disble themselves on an angle. In fact, a common accessory is an angle *detector* to make the alarm go off in case someone (legit or not) attempts to tow. Often this is just a ball bearing in an assembly that completes a circuit when tilted, although I've seen ones made out of mercury that work essentially the same way as the older-school a/c & heating thermostats.
When an alarm WILL disable itself is when you enable the courtesy feature. Say you have your sensitivity set high, and the night is unusually windy. Instead of going off all night, your car alarm will disble the inputs for that ZONE for an hour (or 2, whatever... programmable).
Note that door switches, window break sensors, motion detectors are all still active, since each of these is on its own zone.
Sony ha
I know this comment will be offtopic! ITS OFFTOPIC!
My car been broken into for the 5th time for the past 5 years. And it seems to me it happens in April every year. I want a anti-theft system that will stop those trying to steal my car stereo, incl anything else they want to steal.
This time around, they took my $650 stereo, DC-AC power inverter, power adaptor for my laptop, and adaptor for my cell phones (while leaving behind the plugs). Emptied my glove box for the radar detector, and $100 cash hidden underneith in a black cash fold, while causing $500+ in damage to the center console they tore up trying to take the well mounted stereo and they took my insurance papers for my car. (didn't notice the missing insurance papers until after I got pulled over a week later... the police officer was kind enough to let me go because my car was hit prior)
I've devised a nice anti-theft system for car stereos, so please bear with me on this.
I intend on placing a live grenade behind the stereo head unit. Now I know heat might set the thing off... but I'm willing to take that risk on the test bed. alot of trial and error will happen while I test this system with many cars, in very bad neighborhoods.
I plan on mounting a grenade behind car stereos, fashioned together by a trigger release wire, that is attached to the rear of the stereo and the mounting harnest.
(I've tried the 12guage wire, to help prevent the theft of my last stereo, and learned with enough force, the weak point in yanking out my stereo was the screw holding the wire to the frame of the car.)
Now this time the wire will hold the pin and tab of the grenade until the stereo is yanked out of the mount, the wire seperates from the head unit. I say, time/set the grenade for 5 seconds.
You know what happens at this point. We loose a theif, and a car + stereo + other vehicles nearby, and some casualties of war. But in the grand scheme of it all. I feel better because the bastard didn't get my stereo.
"Don't Forget to Salt the Fries"
And the student happened to have his programmable 390MHz transmitter with him?
what you dont?
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...