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Wi-Fi Routers - The Differences for Each Region?

Wi-Fi Wonderer asks: "I've been wondering what the difference is between the different regions that can be set on a Wi-Fi router? I know the region determines which channels are available, but I can't find any concrete information on anything else. Do regional settings also determine power output, bandwidth, and/or encryption mechanisms? If you are in a Wi-Fi dense area does it make sense (legal ramifications aside) to choose a different regional setting so as to avoid interference? Will one region give a greater broadcast range than another? Is there any documented information on exactly what configuration settings go with each region?"

46 comments

  1. It's hardly a secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    United States uses channels 1-11, Europe uses 1-13, and Japan uses 14. Changing it won't get you anything, as most people use 1, 6, and 11, and 13 isn't far enough from 11 to save you from other user inteference.

    Google is your friend.

    1. Re:It's hardly a secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      how about 14

    2. Re:It's hardly a secret by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, Japan now allows use of 1-14 now. The only restriction on 14 is that 802.11g is not permitted (but 802.11b is).

      --sf

    3. Re:It's hardly a secret by biglig2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Too lazy to google? Wikipedia is your friend too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wifi

      --
      ~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
    4. Re:It's hardly a secret by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      Changing it won't get you anything, as most people use 1, 6, and 11, and 13 isn't far enough from 11 to save you from other user inteference.

      No, but 14 would be far enough from 11.

      I operate mine on ch 9 since most people around me are using 6.

    5. Re:It's hardly a secret by Martin+Blank · · Score: 4, Informative

      Note: Channels 12, 13, and 14 are illegal to use in the United States.

      You're overlapping, then. Channels are 22MHz wide -- 11MHz on either side of the channel's frequency. Channel 1 is centered on 2.412GHz, channel 6 on 2.437 GHz, and channel 11 at 2.462GHz. Notice that the high end of channel 6 is 2.448GHz, and the low end of channel 11 is 2.451GHz -- a mere 3MHz apart, and subject to some overlap because the 22MHz spread isn't perfect, and bleedover is common.

      Now, in your case (channel 9), you're operating 11MHz left and right of 2.452GHz. Your bottom range (2.441GHz) is just above the middle of channel 6 and your top range (2.463GHz) is actually above the center of channel 11. In addition, channel 9 is also right about the frequency used by microwave ovens, according to Joshua Wright (whose name you'll see on plenty of wireless security tools), and many inexpensive microwave ovens leak enough radiation to poison connections.

      This is all on top of the change coming with 802.11n, which uses 40MHz ranges, many of which may default to channel 6 out of habit, though 3 and 9 will be better selections based on legal bandwidth, and their use of channel 9 will probably swamp your little 11g unit.

      Basically, you're using possibly the worst frequency set you can possibly select.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    6. Re:It's hardly a secret by Phreakiture · · Score: 1

      This is all on top of the change coming with 802.11n, which uses 40MHz ranges, many of which may default to channel 6 out of habit, though 3 and 9 will be better selections based on legal bandwidth, and their use of channel 9 will probably swamp your little 11g unit.

      That is not the way I read it. 802.11n uses a 20MHz channel twice, banking on phase differences and multipath reflections to sort out which part of the signal came from which transmitter. This is that "solution to spectrum scarcity" that comes up every time someone mentions radio interference around here, actually applied practically.

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    7. Re:It's hardly a secret by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      That may well be, since I've not read anything especially detailed on the mechanism, and I'm not willing to pay the money required to see the actual draft. My knowledge comes from a combination of what I've read and something I heard from an engineer in the wireless industry (though he admittedly had not had hands-on experience in the spec at that point). However, it does nothing to ameliorate the effective three-channel selection (1, 6, 11) that we now have in place; all it does is preserve that space for now.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    8. Re:It's hardly a secret by John+Miles · · Score: 1

      In addition, channel 9 is also right about the frequency used by microwave ovens, according to Joshua Wright (whose name you'll see on plenty of wireless security tools), and many inexpensive microwave ovens leak enough radiation to poison connections.

      One data point in support of that: microwave.jpg. This is a long-term max-hold plot; most of the trace in channel 6 is my WiFi connection, about eight feet away from the analyzer's antenna. *All* of the crap near channel 11 is leakage from the microwave in the kitchen, two rooms away. Some of its energy is clearly bleeding all the way down to channel 6.

      So yeah, anything above channel 6 is going to need to use short packets if you want it to coexist with this particular microwave oven. Much better for most people to stick with channel 1 or channel 6.

      It's also worth noting that the microwave oven leaks at least 1,000 times more RF power than the WiFi hardware uses. This isn't unique to the oven I have at the moment; other microwaves I've owned exhibit about the same amount of leakage.

      --
      Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
  2. FCC vs Other Areas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So not all of the 2.4Ghz space qualifies as "Unlicensed" in the USA. The region settings generally allow other areas of the world to assist in locking the device to only the correct space. (Eg: Japan has more than just channels 1-11, the local regulators allow up to 13)

    1. Re:FCC vs Other Areas by sexyrexy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Unlicensed means there is no one who pays a license for exclusive use of the space. That is not the same as restricted, wherein the unlicensed use must conform to certain specifications.

      --

      Rex is 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    2. Re:FCC vs Other Areas by LordEd · · Score: 1

      Incorrect about Japan. Japan only permits operation on channel 14:

      A quick Google search says:
      The 802.11b standard defines a total of 14 frequency channels. The FCC allows channels 1 through 11 within the U.S.; whereas, most of Europe can use channels 1 through 13. In Japan, you have only one choice: channel 14.

    3. Re:FCC vs Other Areas by Phreakiture · · Score: 1

      Unlicensed means there is no one who pays a license for exclusive use of the space. That is not the same as restricted, wherein the unlicensed use must conform to certain specifications.

      Close, and probably close enough for the most part.

      In the interest of being complete, though, let me point out that it is possible to acquire a licence for channels 1-6 in the US that comes with extra priviliges and some extra restrictions. This is because the band used by 802.11 overlaps one of the amateur radio bands, and so any licenced ham can punch a LOT of extra power on those frequencies (up to 1200W) as long as they operate under the amateur radio rules.

      Mind you, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near an open-air 1200W transmitter on 2.4GHz.... that's enough to boil water in just a couple of minutes or warm up a frozen burrito in just two. :-)

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    4. Re:FCC vs Other Areas by Chelloveck · · Score: 1
      In Japan, you have only one choice: channel 14.

      I think it depends on where you are in Japan. I've seen indications that 1-13 are allowed in some places, only 14 in others. Some countries, like Mexico, have different power restrictions depending on whether the item is used indoors or outdoors. I have no idea how AP manufacturers possibly manage to untangle all the wacky per-country regulations.

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    5. Re:FCC vs Other Areas by technos · · Score: 1

      I seem to recall a lot of the early ham equipment for 13cm consisted of not much more than a key, a stubby waveguide, and a microwave oven. Well, they did have the decency to PLL the magnetron at least, but I can't imagine it would have impacted the ability to cook food too much..

      --
      .sig: Now legally binding!
    6. Re:FCC vs Other Areas by aminorex · · Score: 1

      > In Japan, you have only one choice: channel 14

      Those lucky Japanese. They get 14, and we just get Fox News. I knew I picked the wrong dictatorship to be born into.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    7. Re:FCC vs Other Areas by Phreakiture · · Score: 1

      Now that's just neat. Scary, but neat. I wasn't aware of people doing this.

      I don't think I'll try it myself.... I seem to have the most fun operating in the 10m and 2m bands. :-)

      73 DE KC2IDF

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
  3. you spoiled it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    now what will we spend hundreds of posts rambling about?

    1. Re:you spoiled it by Raindance · · Score: 1

      I'm sure we'll find something...

    2. Re:you spoiled it by fm6 · · Score: 0, Troll

      GWB! Threat or menace?

    3. Re:you spoiled it by fm6 · · Score: 1

      Jeez, talk about wasting a mod point!

  4. That says it all. by drewzhrodague · · Score: 1

    United States uses channels 1-11, Europe uses 1-13, and Japan uses 14. Changing it won't get you anything, as most people use 1, 6, and 11, and 13 isn't far enough from 11 to save you from other user inteference. Google is your friend.

    Yup. That pretty much says it all. Sorry for the redundancy, and all. Does this kill the thread?

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
    1. Re:That says it all. by E+Zimmer · · Score: 1

      Yes but this one goes to 11.

  5. don't screw around by Yonder+Way · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you mess with your WAP to operate outside of legal bands, there is an excellent chance a local ham radio operator will track you down and submit a couple of pounds of evidence to the FCC (or other regulatory body if you are outside of the US) which could (and sometimes does) result in a nice fat fine.

    Your access point has limits for a reason. Please respect them. If you start pissing all over someone else's hobby with your computer junk, they're licensed and you're not, you're the one in the wrong.

    1. Re:don't screw around by alienw · · Score: 1

      If you think the FCC actually tracks down violators, you have another thing coming. In reality, you can get away with a lot before the FCC is going to do anything. It's next to impossible to get a jammer off the ham bands (I've tried), and I REALLY doubt the FCC will bother investigating complaints about operation in the ISM bands. They don't give a shit.

    2. Re:don't screw around by Yonder+Way · · Score: 2, Informative

      The FCC doesn't do much at all to track down violators. But hams and scanner buffs do. If the FCC is presented with evidence, they usually will act on it.

    3. Re:don't screw around by pe1chl · · Score: 1

      You are lucky to have a ham band interference problem at all!
      Here in the Netherlands, we lost the top (2400-2450) part of 13cm last year, to protect those poor accesspoint owners that were trampled by the hundreds of watts ERP the hams were allowed to transmit there :-(

      6cm will probably be next. Some of the 802.11a channels are in the ham band as well.

    4. Re:don't screw around by pla · · Score: 1

      Your access point has limits for a reason. Please respect them. If you start pissing all over someone else's hobby with your computer junk, they're licensed and you're not, you're the one in the wrong.

      My "computer junk" actually has some use in the modern world. Ham radio has gone the way of the dodo, and for good reason. Oh, wait, let the protests of "during Katrina, hams did foo, bar, and bat!" begin. Boo hoo. And I can transmit an SOS using sparkgap, but I don't see anyone trying to protect that obsolete technology. Suck it up and give me my BPL so I have a third choice in the current regional broadband duopoly.

      As the number of people using WAPs increases, the difficulty of getting a good signal increases as well. Currently, at least in the US, geeks can cheat and use channel 13 or 14 to get a good solid clean signal, and that without needing to push the transmitter power to always stay at max (and if you think the FCC cares about a <100mw omnidirectional transmitter operating inside my house a mere 0.9% out of range, I have a bridge to sell to you).

      But even that only represents a band-aid for the real problem - Namely, that while we have literally GHz allocated to the highest bidding commercial users, we mere plebes can go pound sand trying to fight over the use of a few meager MHz. And not even a "good" few MHz - The FCC only gave that range to us because the whole goddamned planet acts like a giant 2.4GHz sponge, making it useless for anything more important than your phone talking to its base station.

      The FCC does a good thing, in general (when it sticks to controlling spectrum allocation rather than censorship). But they need a harsh reminder that the interests of the people come before the interests of the highest bidder.

    5. Re:don't screw around by jridley · · Score: 1

      Well, hams invented or greatly refined most of the technology used in your computer junk. A ton of radio and electronics innovations were made by hams, and ham radio has and continues to inspire kids to go into electronics and engineering.
      Ham radio in the US is becoming less useful to some extent, but it's still an important form of communications in some repressive areas of the world.

    6. Re:don't screw around by JoeD · · Score: 1

      Nah, all they have to do is say that you're somehow using it to show boobies, and the FCC will be all over you.

    7. Re:don't screw around by NickDngr · · Score: 1

      If you mess with your WAP to operate outside of legal bands, there is an excellent chance a local ham radio operator will track you down and submit a couple of pounds of evidence to the FCC (or other regulatory body if you are outside of the US) which could (and sometimes does) result in a nice fat fine.

      The FCC normally sends a warning letter first.

      --
      Yoda of Borg am I! Assimilated shall you be! Futile resistance is, hmm?
    8. Re:don't screw around by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      And do those repressive areas of the world include the US or Canada?

      Ham radio in North America is a hobby. Something done for fun, that has no actual practical value. WiFi, on the other hand, is useful. Be it aiding a homeowner in networking computers in different rooms, or sharing data among doctors in a hospital, WiFi actually does something useful. The same can't be said about Ham in the US or Canada.

      Besides, it isn't like there aren't alternatives to Ham radios. In the US and Canada, there aren't many places that don't have at least analog cell phone coverage (And you can always resort to the old 80s/90s brick phones that do a lot better at analog reception than modern phones). There's also satellite phones, which should work pretty much anywhere, even when you can't get cellphone coverage. And of course, if the FCC hasn't crippled UWB, you'd be able to use that to set up a country-wide network with complete coverage and transmission powers a fraction of that of a cellphone, but with the miniscule transmission power the FCC permits, the best you can hope for with UWB is hundreds of megabits or several gigabits at a few feet, or wifi-type speeds at wifi type ranges.

  6. Every Time I Scan 12-14... by SlashdotOgre · · Score: 1

    Every time I scan channels 12-14 (in the US), I've never found anyone using it. I happen to live about a block from UCSD (the school that I graduated from and where I'm now a research staff member) so this is relatively surprising. I have to admit I've considered it; launching kismet from where I'm sitting on my couch I can detect well over 20 AP's; however on my 802.11A card I can't see any so it's easier (and a lot more legal) to just use the 5GHz band.

    --
    Sadly, PS/2 was yet another victim of USB, which doesn't care what you plug into it, the electrical slut.
    1. Re:Every Time I Scan 12-14... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Note: Channels 12, 13, and 14 are illegal to use in the United States."

    2. Re:Every Time I Scan 12-14... by Bretai · · Score: 1

      I believe this is the point we were discussing - "Legal ramifications aside." Given the inability of the FCC to effectively prosecute home users, should I set my AP to channel 14? Personally, I wouldn't bother.

      --
      Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming. -Brian Kernigan
    3. Re:Every Time I Scan 12-14... by tech_guru5182 · · Score: 1

      There is basically no point to setting it to anything in that range. The next channel you would need to go to for a difference from a co-channel interference standpoint would be 16 (if the channels were extended that far.) If you want to avoid interference, stick to 1, 6, and 11, as any channel inbetween these will interfere with the channels on either side. If you use 12-14, you will cause interference to 11.

      --
      BAN BPL! Keep the radio spectrum free fro
  7. 1 and 6 and 11 by yttrium · · Score: 2, Informative

    The channel bandwidths all overlap, but every fifth starts a new piece... So 1, 6, and 11 are all completely disjoint bandwidths and will not interfere with one another. If you use 8 and 6 in the same area, they will interfere.

  8. Just use 11a, if you can by Bretai · · Score: 5, Informative

    Products sold in the U.S. will generally fix the behavior to conform to U.S. rules, and if the Country Code can be changed at all, it probably won't change the operation to add more channels or more power. APs from countries other than US and Japan are usually more flexible.

    Some differences:
    FCC(US) limits average tx power to 27dBm on 1-11
    ETSI(Europe) has a limit of 20dBm on 1-13, although individual countries could add further restrictions.
    MKK(Japan) 20dBm on 1-14

    In 11a, there are greater differences:
    FCC - 17dBm on 36,40,44,48, 23dBm on 52,56,60,64, 30dBm on 149,153,157,161,165
    ETSI - 20dBm on 36-64 and 27dBm on 100-140
    MKK - 23dBm on 34,38,42,46 and possibly 20dBm on 100-140 plus a few other odd lower channels.

    The actual rules are too extensive to list and they're constantly changing. If you have an older 11a Access Point, you might only see channels 36, 40, 44, and 48 available. Another big factor to consider is DFS. DFS applies to channels 52-64 and 100-140. It requires the AP to switch channels immediately when it detects a radio signal that might be Radar, and the user is not allowed to return to that channel for 30 minutes. Client devices must passively scan for APs and APs must scan the channel for radar for 1 minute before starting operation on that channel. The US is adding DFS requirements in July 2006. Fortunately they're adding the 100-140 channel range at the same time, so it's not all bad.

    You might think that the upper channels (149-165) are ideal for higher power and no DFS, but I think that is the range that get interference from 5.8GHz cordless phones. I'd go with 52-64 pre-DFS rules. 11a has less range, but that also means less neighbor interference. There is less channel overlap. No microwave oven interference. There are no 11b stations to trigger 11b protection modes, or God forbid, a concurrent 11b user on the same AP as you. Most importantly, there are still fewer users of 11a. Where I live, I have neighbors across all of the 11b/g channels, but just a couple on 11a, so I can find an unused channel all to myself. This is much more important than any B.S. Speedburning, RangeMaxing, Super features which have always under-delivered with performance.

    Anyway, I think you can see that the U.S. rules are pretty good, so there's not much reason to set the wrong country and violate FCC rules... unless you like that sort of thing.

    --
    Controlling complexity is the essence of computer programming. -Brian Kernigan
    1. Re:Just use 11a, if you can by pe1chl · · Score: 1

      DFS is no fun... after you have carefully determined the channel with the lowest background noise level and enjoyed good communication for days, a sudden spike of interference (lightning?) makes the AP jump to another channel. This might be a noisy, busy channel, but the AP will stay there until it gets another spike, which may take days.

      This probably is implementation-dependent. It could be a good thing when the AP attempts to go back to the selected channel after some time, and/or a number of channels could be manually locked out from use by DFS.

      At work I run a point-to-point link between two buildings about 400m apart (a quarter mile), and I had some quite interesting experiences.
      Of course, as a ham I know a bit better what I am doing than the average consumer would, but the effect of antenna position and trees along the path still surprised me.

  9. 802.11d by hockeydude · · Score: 2, Informative

    The country codes are related to the 802.11d addendum. 802.11d is for International Regulatory Domains. It provides a mechanism to allow subscriber stations to automatically detect the country that they are operating in and limit their maximum transmit power accordingly. Each country's regulating body (like the FCC) sets limits on transmit power for different operating bands. If you look around, you'll discover very little consistency from country to country. It's a regulatory nightmare, really. An AP that supports 802.11d will include the country code in its Beacon and Probe Response messages. A subscriber station that has 802.11d enabled shall not transmit at all until it discovers the country code from at least one AP beacon. When it discovers the country code, it looks up in its own regulatory table (eeprom or flash) the maximum transmit power for that country. Once it determines max power, it may begin its normal transmit operations. So, the intention of the feature is to allow subscriber stations to be certified for operation in multiple countries. For those countries, it would know the maximum transmit power in advance and be able to transmit. However, the spec is not all that clear on its operation, and specifies no regulatory requirements itself, so it's really just a feature that enables operation, but isn't necessarily widely used and implemented. Most mobile station solutions support 802.11d by now, but most have it disabled by default. When 802.11d is disabled, it just uses a home country profile that is programmed in eeprom or flash. Also, there is no requirement to not transmit until discovering the country, so the mobile station can transmit probe requests right away.

  10. Re:Korea by PHPfanboy · · Score: 1

    bwa ha ha, everyone knows that in Korea only old people use wifi router pages....

    --
    29 mpg. YMMV.
  11. caring for your overseas guests by dark_day · · Score: 1, Insightful

    if you're in the UK and expecting US visitors to your wireless network you would be well advised to avoid using channels 12-14 since US wifi cards won't see your wireless router

    1. Re:caring for your overseas guests by jaredmauch · · Score: 1

      I've had similar problems when visiting our offices in Tokyo.