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Apple vs Apple -- Judgment Day
DaphneDiane writes "According to the Times Online Apple Computer successfully defended themselves vs the suit brought by Apple Corps." If you are looking for background on the case we had talked about it earlier. I'm just relieved that the battle of two bazillion dollar companies turned out well. Phew. And, of course, Apple Corp has filed an appeal already.
I hate to see The Beatles lose, but let's face facts: If you could possibly confuse the two, you're likely too dumb to appreciate The Beatles' music and too stupid to figure out how to turn on a computer.
Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
I'd have to say - why bother. If I'm not mistaken the audience that would download it has P2P'ed them to death, and it'd be too little too late.
Unless they remaster everything - which they're proportedly doing - but the restirctions they're trying to lay down make the recent "big 4" vs iTunes look like a cakewalk.
If you hate the laws, spend your lives trying to get them changed. Do not hate the companies that use the laws in their favor [emph mine]
You note that companies have 'almost unlimited funds' - they use these funds to:
1) Change the law to suit themselves.
2) Discredit / ridicule those who spend their lives trying to get laws changed.
3) Bury in legalities / court fees those who oppose them.
How can we not hate the companies that do this?
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
off limits trademark, they should have instead used a made-up word (something like Exxon?) that doesn't mean anything in any popular language but sounds cool, and not a word in the dictionary/history or common place item.
This is a travesty - not for the gain or loss of two billionaire corporations, but for the simple concept of fair play that has been ignored. It's true that now nobody would confuse the two corporations, but the simple fact that Apple Computer exists is because Apple Corps agreed to let them continue using a name which could (at the time) have been confused, on the condition that Apple Computer not get into the music business. The distinction today is that Apple (computer) has greatly outstripped Apple (corps) is brand recognition. Heck, you may as well take Apple Corps trademark entirely, as the common person would likely mistake Apple (Corps) for the wildly popular international trademark Apple (computer).
My question would be - can Apple Corps start their internet Download Music Store and not get sued by Apple Computer? Is there a potential for mistakes in Apple iDMS and Apple iTMS?
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
They were thinking of settling out of court, and it was going quite well for Apple Corp until, in the middle of negotiation, they broke down.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
>If I want to slap another stick of RAM into my machine, I should be able to without being a licensed Apple technician. You can, dude. Always could. Never seen a Mac I couldn't upgrade. Why do you spread this falshood?
You're kidding me right?
... because otherwise no-one would remember they exist. There's still a market for Beatles songs, but who cares what the record label is?
I'm neither a business expert nor a historian, but I have never understood how Apple Corps had any possibility of winning a trademark infringement case against Apple Computer... whether in the same business or not.
Look at these two examples:
Budweiser (Budvar, Czech Republic) and Budweiser (Anheuser Busch, USA). Same name, same business. And I have seen both products sold in the same location before (I prefer the Czech version myself).
ABC (Australian Broadcasting Company) and ABC (American Broadcasting Company). ABC... ABC. Same business.
And these are just off the top of my head. Certainly there are others.
I don't get where the Beatles were going with their action. Clearly Apple Computer was not going to be made to stop using their own logo and name. Nor were they going to be made to stop selling music via iTunes. What gives?
The problem with socialism is that they always run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Imagine for a moment if Apple Computer had obeyed copyright and trademark laws to a “t” in this case. What products we never have seen the light of day? When you ponder this for a moment, it becomes clear how out-of-hand this nonsense is.
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Whiney Mac Fanboy: Oh for Gods sake - stop being such a whiney fanboy.
Pot, meet Kettle. Kettle, this is Pot.
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
Apple won out against the RIAA, Apple won out against France, and now Apple won out against the Beatles' old label. Despite it, every investor knows the truth: Apple is dying. Watch their stock price for a decline this afternoon in light of this terrible, tragic, positive news.
Yes, this is sarcasm. Except for the stock decline thing.
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
-K
"We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
That said, in this case, I'm not sure Apple Corps did anything immoral. Most people have concentrated on the fact Apple Corps isn't a big computer company, as if the situation was that Apple Computers was suing Apple Corps and not vice-versa. Apple Corps clearly thought there Apple Computer's decision to enter the music selling market may cause brand confusion given they're a company called Apple who're involved in selling music (albeit at a higher level.) Whether the decision was right or wrong, I believe Apple Corps had legitimate reasons to be concerned, and they had every right to bring the courts into it.
The sole argument against Apple Corps, so far as I can see, which wasn't raised by the defense, is that they're not really expanding in any serious way. They've limited themselves to periodic re-releases of a handful of back-numbers. As such, their "market" mostly knows who they are, being a small number of retail executives, and the handful who doesn't can be easily availed of their misapprehension with a one line disclaimer at the end of their letters. If Apple Corps was a little more active, signing on new talent, then I think there'd be a greater risk of confusion.
Trademark law is a legitimate buffer against confusion and fraud. So I'm not going to hate either Apple Corps or the government over this. But if it wasn't, and Apple Corps was just trying to extract money from Apple Computer and we lived in a perfect world where similarly named entities operating in similar markets never cause confusion, I would consider Apple Corps just at much at fault as the government who let them sue. Just as I dislike patent trolls, overly proprietary software makers, and telemarketers.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Even better, call it eMacs and bundle it with GNU/Herd and Emacs.
24 beers in a case, 24 hours in a day. Coincidence? I think not!
Apple is a label as much as Amazon is a publisher.
Rubies and Pearls are not what you think.
This could very well be a mistake on my part in that I have never seen or heard of anyone able to do that.
Probably. Most all Macs take standard PC memory. Since almost the beginning. Even the first PowerMacs used a slight variation of normal SIMMs. Many brands of PC memory worked in them. Add to that how easy the cases on Macs open up, I get the feeling you've probably just never seen and played with a Mac up close.
On top of that, I thought that their machines had a temperature sensor that would trigger it to internally mark itself as VOIDED if the case was open and the temperature in the room wasn't low enough.
Yeah, not sure where you got that from. They have no special hardware in them like that at all. And, I can't remember ever seeing a Mac with a sticker on it to keep you from opening the case. I've opened up pretty much every PowerMac ever made, was an Apple certified tech at a store for a few years. They really have no clue if you open the case and put in your own ram, harddrive, PCI/video card, NIC, modem, etc. All of these devices can be bought 3rd party, and there is no rule that I've ever heard about installing these voiding warranty. We sold 3rd party hardware all the time, and told them how to install it if they asked.
They flat refused to sell him a new drive without him bringing the machine in so they could install it saying that in order for his warranty to remain valid they had to send the failed drive back to Apple for testing. He asked what would happen if he bought a 3rd party drive and replaced it himself and was told that his warranty would be voided and he could be subject to up to $20,000 in fines for violating his "customer agreement".
If this story is true, then that reseller was blatantly lying, and needs to be bitchslapped for consumer fraud. This is not the way Apple works things.
Now, about sending the dead drive back, yes, they do have to send defective parts back *if they replace them under warranty*. However, if he just bought one straight out, even a 3rd party one (yes a standard PC version of a CD/DVD drive will work!), they can just sell it to him, at a slightly higher cost (as they don't get a discount by sending the broken one back). And, there is no such thing as a fine for adding your own hardware, or voiding a warranty. That's such bullshit. The problem is, they don't make much money on hardware sales. They make their money on labor. So they end up fucking Apple customers, and dragging Apple's name through the mud to make a profit.
Personally, I'd tell your friend to report that store to whatever consumer protection agency handles your state. They probably didn't break any laws, but lying to consumers about made-up fines and their rights is not acceptable.
;-)
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
Even better, call it eMacs and bundle it with GNU/Hurd and Emacs.
*snort* - that would be funny! I'd distribute it with Darwin over GNU/Hurd tho' - for extra (Alanis Morissette style) irony points. (Plus, you could actually ship it)
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
Looks like Apple Corp. is appealing the decision! You think Apple Corp. would know their limitations. See here http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/05/08/apple_to_a ppeal_verdict/
The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity....Calvin
... and I was pretty fearful that Yoko Ono was gonna own me!
That'd really suck!
For a band that basically redefined the popular music of its time, years ahead of their time, their management has been atrocious. I remember waiting for Beatles CDs to be released, long after everything in the major label's catalogues had already been ported to digital (Sgt Peppers was released 20 years to the day after it originally came on on vinyl, and the line stretched around the block at Cactus Records in Houston that day). I remember the Beatles choosing to release the first four in Mono (good choice), issue no American releases (they later changed their mind, to make money no doubt), then reduce their sizable Vault down to three good (if incomplete) double-Cd volumes. If the Beatles fail to secure their legacy by making their recorded music available as widely as possible (which they seem hell-bent on doing) then it is their own damn fault. And it is a crying shame. Every last child on earth should know Revolver, if nothing else.
I'm just relieved that the battle of two bazillion dollar companies turned out well.
:-)
Apple Corps has however appealed the decision.
Also, there's some name hilarity in this article:
"I find no breach of the trademark agreement has been demonstrated," Mr Justice Mann said in his judgment on Monday. "The action therefore fails."
Justice Mann is even more cartoony than Judge Dredd.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
This gives a whole new dimension to the Penny Lane lyrics:
There's a story at macworld uk and el reg
Quote from Apple Corp's lawyer:So - the fight continues!
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
This is not really on topic, but anway...
If you mean that their pricing could change with the switch to Intel-Chips: Yeah, it has changed. Since the Intel chips cost about twice as much as the G4s, the Mac mini and MacBook Pro prices have effectively gone up. Still competitive with comparable PC makers, though.
If you mean that the "closed machine mentality" could change: Uhm, what closed-machine mentality? Have you used a pro-level Mac made during the last decade?
FYI, "Moron in a hurry" isn't necessarily meant to be insulting under English law. It's the language that a judge used in a case there some years back in dismissing a trademark-infringement suit, so it's an established phrase. This was explained in the comments of a previous Apple-Apple /. article here.
Beatles: Hey Jude, I thought we agreed there's only room for one apple in this business!
Apple: STFU, we're not IN your business.
Beatles: I know it's been a hard day's night for you, but yeah, you are.
Apple: STFU.
Beatles: Right, we'll see you in the Court on Penny Lane.
(later)
Court: Beatles, STFU.
Apple: We have triumphed yet again!
Beatles: Waaaaaah! Twist and Shout! You never give me your money! We'll appeal and then you're going to lose that girl!
All: STFU!
Towards the Singularity.
Maybe if Apple Corps had actually participated materially in the market in the last thirty years there would be confusion, but now it's a niche player and Apple Inc. owns "apple" mindshare.
Apple corps had some relevance in the market 15 years ago when they made a deal with Apple Computers.
And for all those Apple Corps apologists that suggest Apple Corps market a macintosh coat
All those Apple Corps apologists?
There was only one person making a macintosh coat jibe (me!) and I'm not an Apple Corps apologist. I'm just disgusted at the hypocrisy displayed by Apple Computers.
There are shills on slashdot. Apparently, I'm one of them.
I enjoy the fact that OSX has Bourne-Again SHell (BASH) capabilities (correct me if I'm wrong) although I hate their pricing and closed machine mentality--though that may change with x86 architecture. If I want to slap another stick of RAM into my machine, I should be able to without being a licensed Apple technician.
Well that's news to me, as I have a G4 tower and a G4 PowerBook at home which I have upgraded the memory in, as well as a Mac Mini, a G5, and this MacBook Pro on my desk here at work that I have upgraded the memory in.
Guess I better go take the licensing exams before someone figures out that I've broken some kind of FUD.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,200-217097 7,00.html
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be. - Douglas Adams
True, any amateur can try, but apple will void your warranty if they found out you opened your mini.
No, they won't. You are either badly misinfomed or else you are just spreading FUD.
I have a mini, ordered the day they were introduced, and I upgraded the memory myself as soon as it arrived. I also swapped out the hard drive for a 7200 RPM one a few months later.
The 1-year warranty remained 100% valid. (Although, obviously the 3rd-party items I installed are not covered by AppleCare.) I didn't buy the extended warranty, so I believe it just ran out last month.
The mini is very easy to open. The little clips are not nearly as brittle as the FUD-meisters would have you believe. They bend away and/or snap out with no damage at all.
I found the tricky part to be getting it to close back up correctly. You gotta line up the airport antenna just right, then get all those little plastic clips clipped back in while lining up this little pad with the back panel. Took me 2 or 3 attempts the first time I did it.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
But all of the "all in one" types with the built in monitor are a fricking nightmare. Where have you been for the last 18 months? The latest iteration of the iMac (the "all in one" models you must be talking about) are almost completely user accessible. In fact, when there were noise problems with the Rev. A version, Apple was sending out the mid-planes directly to the users for replacement. I'll agree that the "sunflower" model was not terribly accessible, nor was the original CRT iMac, but the flat panel is incredibly well designed from an accessibility standpoint. Adding RAM is a snap - just look at this diagram http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=303 084. In fact, there is a whole list of things you can replace on your iMac - all involving opening up the back of the computer http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=868 12.
The article says that Neil Aspinall, now manager of Apple Corps, was the Beatles' first roadie. Neil wasn't a roadie, he was a press agent. Mal Evans is well know as the Beatles roadie, go-fer and body guard.
The Beatles were great musicians, but terrible business men. The story of the mess that was Apple has been documented in several books including "The Love you Make" by Peter Brown.
Apple Computer sells digital content - Music, TV shows, audio books.
If Apple Computer is in the music business, then so is 7-11 for selling cheap CD's in the store.
Apple computer is in the retail business, not the music business.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If Michael Jackson ala Sony owns the beatles library, what does apple corps own?
I've heard of the Beatles
I've heard of Apple (computers)
But I've never heard of Apple Corp., I doubt a lot of consumers have heard of Apple Corp. even though they are a wealthy company. I doubt Apple (computers) is affecting their bottomline.
Can I bum a sig?
This is a good point. Apple Corp was initially started as a distribution channel that small or unknown artists could use to produce and release their higher risk products. The Beatles, owning said company, used it for their own projects as well.
Of course, the Beatles products are the only ones that had any persistant appeal. But Apple Corp is still marketing and distributing those products.
In that context, Apple Corp is a packager and distributor with a diminished, but still very profitable and valuable, catalog. If iTunes is also considered to be a distribution channel, and had the Apple logo on it, one could understand why Apple Corp felt to need to protect it's brand and trademark.
Windows: The operating system built for the internet. Unix: The operating system the Internet was built for.