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Microsoft Responds To 360 Hackers

Microsoft would like to remind you that hacking your console most definitely voids your warranty. From the Eurogamer article: "Modified consoles, Microsoft added, 'will not be eligible for technical support, and the user's warranty will be voided ... the protection of intellectual property rights is a high priority for Microsoft and our partners, one that significantly and positively impacts economic growth, technological innovation, and most importantly, the confidence of customers who count on the integrity and quality of their products.'"

16 of 170 comments (clear)

  1. well, duh! by macdaddy357 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Did some baboon actually call them for technical support after soldering in a mod chip and watching it go boom?

    --
    How ya like dat?
    1. Re:well, duh! by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 3, Funny
      Argh, s/approximately/approximation/

      I guess that's a hint at where I fall in the distribution...

    2. Re:well, duh! by DrSkwid · · Score: 4, Funny

      Half of all people are below average height.

      Being in a room with the Harlem Globetrotters doesn't affect this assertion.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  2. Dear Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Understand that the last thing I need is your support.

    Signed,

    Anonymous

  3. Meaningless by Sean0michael · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know about other /.ers, but I've never had to call tech support for a game console, nor have I ever needed to use the warranty. As far as I can tell, voiding your warranty is only a nominal loss, nothing more. Most people who are thinking about modding their XBox won't care about the warranty--they know full well they are voiding it. They probably have the connections to fix whatever they break. I guarantee MS doesn't.

    --
    Funtime Candy Wow! - my plan for eventually conquering Japan.
    1. Re:Meaningless by kahanamoku · · Score: 5, Informative

      Its not exactly technical support, but I DID actually call them for support on my Xbox360 in an effort to recover the copy of HexicHD that I deleted (as many others have) in an effort to reclaim some space on the HDD (expecting the game to take up the 7 gigs of space that was missing from the 20GB drive).

      After giving them my GamerTag, Email Addresses, Phone Numbers and Xbox360 Serial number they gave me a reference number for the call and I am to "expect a return call from them within the next week with the prepaid code" that I need to enter to enable to download from xbox live .... THAT WAS 5 WEEKS AGO!!!

      How can they claim they wont give you support if you void your warranty? it's no different than what they provide at the moment with a valid warranty.

      --
      ----- Concentrate on promoting more than demoting.
    2. Re:Meaningless by Osty · · Score: 5, Informative

      Its not exactly technical support, but I DID actually call them for support on my Xbox360 in an effort to recover the copy of HexicHD that I deleted (as many others have) in an effort to reclaim some space on the HDD (expecting the game to take up the 7 gigs of space that was missing from the 20GB drive).

      Either you can't read, or you can't do math. :) When you go to delete anything from the hard drive, you can see exactly how much space it takes (in KB or MB, depending on the item). Even if you saw that Hexic is ~30MB and didn't realize that it was accurate, you're never going to get 20GB out of that hard drive. First off, 20GB == 18.6GiB (silly hard drive marketing using the SI definition of GB, while Microsoft displays "GiB" as "GB" on the dashboard). From that, subtract another 4GiB for game buffers (same deal as in the original Xbox, though they never told you the exact size there. Everything was in "blocks"), some amount of space for Xbox emulation, filesystem overhead, and the dashboard, OS, and related resources, and it makes perfect sense that you only get ~13-14GiB of usable space on a 20GB/18.6GiB drive.

      Oh, yeah, if you haven't heard back from support, call them again. They're people, too, and it's not unheard of for people to forget things once in a while. You just may be unlucky.

  4. so wrong by foQ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let's look at the things which Microsoft claims are "significantly and positively impact[ed]" by trying to protect their Intellectual Property:

    economic growth
    The only economic growth impacted is the upward growth of the modchip makers -- an industry Microsoft can't dominate and bully. What happenned to the economic growh of Netscape when Microsoft integrated IE into Windows -- a design flaw that has not been corrected even in Vista! How about all of the patents illegally used by Microsoft over the years? Why was their "economic growh" and Intellectual Property not worth protecting?

    technological innovation
    The modchip industry is pretty damn innovative! You have a huge multi-billion dollar company in a huge multi-billion dollar industry designing these consoles to be hackproof, yet a few guys in a garage can hack them in under a year. That is technological innovation, too, it's just not in a way that Microsoft can stifle and control. It is open innovation, published and available to all.

    and most importantly, the confidence of customers who count on the integrity and quality of their products.
    Integrity like scratching discs to unpreadability? Quality like overheating and frequent crashes? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the modders and makers who designed ways to cool the power supplies and devices? From strings to hang the power brick to watercooling for the processors, the hardware hackers have been improving on the designs of the XBOX 360. It seems to me like these problems should have been fixed BEFORE shipping by highly paid designers, not AFTER shipping by fans who didn't want to feel cheated out of their money.

    1. Re:so wrong by Nos9 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually I for one, do prefer not to have people cheating when I play them in online games...
          Halo 2 used to be fun, running into a guy who shoots you from his flying warthog (and yes I mean the damn thing flew through the air) through walls with automatic headshots is anything but fun, nor is playing capture the flag with a guy who can run across the map in 1 second, capturing your teams flag about the same time the system tells you it has been taken.

    2. Re:so wrong by Osty · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The modchip industry is pretty damn innovative! You have a huge multi-billion dollar company in a huge multi-billion dollar industry designing these consoles to be hackproof, yet a few guys in a garage can hack them in under a year. That is technological innovation, too, it's just not in a way that Microsoft can stifle and control. It is open innovation, published and available to all.

      This is the classic dilemma of anybody doing anything security-related. If you're defending, you havet o protect the entire system against any possible hole, usually with limited man power (yes, even in the OSS world), and under a time constraint to get the software/hardware out (you may patch it later, but you need "good enough" from the start). If you're attacking, you just need one tiny little hole, and you have all the time in the world to do it. And, you're working with essentially infinite man power (while you're focusing on one hole, another attacker somewhere else is focusing on a different one). Innovation here lies in how long you can keep your system unhackable.

      Integrity like scratching discs to unpreadability?

      It's your own damned fault if you don't understand the physics of a spinning disk and try to reorient your Xbox 360 while a disk is playing. Maybe Microsoft shouldn't have made the Ring of Light adjust with the orientation of the console, as that would keep the sheeple from screwing up their games because they want to see the pretty lights. Not a design flaw (go try it with a PS2 -- you'll have the same problem. Nobody was ever stupid enough to do it with a PS2 because there is no Ring of Light on the front).

      Quality like overheating and frequent crashes?

      I can't help but think the overheating issues were way overstated by early adopters and the media. By all accounts, my own 360 is "launch window" (build date of early December, purchased mid-December), and I've yet to run into an overheating issues. Then again, I don't box my 360 up in an enclosed media center, with no airflow around the console or the power supply. You wouldn't put a PC in an enclosure with poor circulation, so why would you do that with an Xbox? There was a verified problem with a bad batch of power supplies, but you could get that replaced under warranty (but not if you modded!). Not to mention the many cases where crashes were attributed to overheating when the real culprit was a poorly-connected power supply (you have to push it in until it clicks and the little clip catches. Otherwise, you're not going to have a solid power connection and could easily crash the box because of it).

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the modders and makers who designed ways to cool the power supplies and devices?

      You're both right and wrong. Modders did design ways to cool the 360, though none of them were particularly innovative (if you can't cool it better than Microsoft did in the same form factor, it's not an innovation). However, those modifications are unnecessary with a little common sense, and potentially a power supply swap.

      You want to talk about innovation? Okay. Go build a comparably-powered PC in the same form factor or smaller. I bet you can't do it. No, Mini-ITX.com doesn't count, because those PCs are nowhere near as powerful as a 360 (they make great media centers, though!). Even Sony can't do it. The PS3 is going to be huge. The 360 is no larger than a PS2. Don't believe me? I'll take a picture. I have my PS2 standing right next to my 360, and the 360 is approximately .5 inch taller due to the hard drive, and no wider. It's a little deeper by about 1.5 inches, but that's less than the old Xbox and much less than my cable box or my DVD player.

  5. Only voided warranties...? by JediLow · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "will not be eligible for technical support, and the user's warranty will be voided."

    Does that mean Microsoft is actually respecting the owner's right to own the console unlike they did with the Xbox? I'm fine with companies saying that its no longer covered by them if you tinker with it, but when they attempt to go beyond that line (ie: claiming DCMA violations, claiming the owner has no right to do what they want with their console) its gone way too far.

    1. Re:Only voided warranties...? by Osty · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Does that mean Microsoft is actually respecting the owner's right to own the console unlike they did with the Xbox? I'm fine with companies saying that its no longer covered by them if you tinker with it, but when they attempt to go beyond that line (ie: claiming DCMA violations, claiming the owner has no right to do what they want with their console) its gone way too far.

      Can you point to even one case where Microsoft prosecuted an individual for modding his Xbox? Sure, they and Sony went after Lik-Sang for selling mod chips, but not the people who use them. They've attacked sellers who sold modified Xboxes with 100s of pirated games, but that was because of the pirated games, not the modchip. They patched holes in games and the dashboard that allowed for soft-modding, but that's their perogative and your fault for buying a re-release of a game or signing in to Xbox Live (and if it was IE or Windows, you'd be bitching if they didn't patch the holes ...). They banned modified Xboxes from Xbox Live, but they have the right to choose who uses their service and who doesn't (and once you're banned, you no longer have to pay for it). Read the TOS you agreed to when signing up. Microsoft has never stopped anybody from installing a mod chip and running Linux.

      Expect all of the same to happen now, too. In fact, I'm surprised that their only response was to remind you that you void your warranty with this hack. The current hack is only useful for playing pirated games. You can't use it for homebrew software or to run Linux, so there's no legitimate justification to shield it. When (not if) a real hack or mod chip appears, expect to get banned from Xbox Live for using a modified console (which will be much worse this time around, since Live is so much more important to the core experience of Xbox 360). Expect Microsoft to continue to go after people selling consoles with pirated games. And expect them to stay out of your business if all you want to do is run Linux and stay the hell off of Live.

  6. Microsoft hardly cares about piracy by Myria · · Score: 4, Informative

    The hack only allows piracy. As Microsoft said, the rest of the security system isn't broken at all.

    That's the sad part. It's very obvious that Microsoft cares much more about preventing Linux, Xbox Media Center and Game Shark much much much much more than they care about preventing piracy.

    The 360's security against unauthorized software undoubtedly cost millions of dollars to develop, and an unknown amount to manufacture. Meanwhile, the anti-piracy system of the 360 is almost identical to the Xbox's weak system. They barely changed anything, even though they knew it was already broken.

    By the way, the piracy hack for 360 was finished months ago. They probably spent the rest of that time designing their stuff to make it incredibly hard for Microsoft to detect it through Xbox Live.

    Expect Microsoft to very soon reflash the drive of anyone connecting to the Internet with a version with no back doors and that checks digital signatures of future flashes. And they'll do this instantly upon detecting a connected network cable without asking for your permission.

    Melissa

    --
    "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
  7. Honestly I don't care by Psykechan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Microsoft's warranty for the original Xbox wasn't worth the digital paper it was printed on. I had to send mine back three times with a defective DVD drive before I finally gave up and stopped buying games for the damn thing. It would refuse to play any discs be it movies or games intermittantly. The braindead techs at Microsoft's Xbox repair center would run their diagnostic disc on it once and then send it back with the same defective drive.

    I only started using it again when I decided to mod it to run unsigned binaries like XBMC on it. An interesting side effect was that I was able to copy my until recently unusable games to the hard drive to actually get to play them without the system locking up with an "Unable to read disc" message all too often.

    I actually bought a few games after I modded the system due to the fact that I was now able to once again use the console for what it was intended to do.

    Honestly I'll wait for the hackers to perfect a similar method for the 360 before I'll pick one up. I have no interest in pirating games but I would like to ensure that I will be able to play games that I purchase without being frustrated again. /rant

  8. "warranty" by Eivind · · Score: 4, Informative
    Especially for consumers in countries with non-silly consumer-protection laws this is irrelevant.

    In Scandinawia for example, there is a (by law) 2 years of indemnifications from defects in materials or craftmanships on all items marketed to consumers. And even 5 years on items meant to last significantly longer than 2 years.

    Now, this doesn't cover normal wear and tear. Nor does it cover consumer misuse (like say dropping the console from 6 feet), but neither does Microsofts "warranty".

    If you do mod your console, this affects your rigths under law not at all. The only exception being, offcourse, if you break the console by doing the mod. That is, offcourse, not Microsofts fault.

    But if you say mod your console by soldering in a new BIOS, and then half a year later the DVD-drive breaks, MS will have to replace it at their cost, unless they can show that it's likely the DVD-drive broke because of the soldering-in of the new BIOS.

    Americans buy expensive "extended warranties" to get what people in other countries have by default. (not that it stops companies from trying to push "extended warranties" here too, it's just even more pointless here.

  9. Warranty was only 90 days anyway by techstar25 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    According to this page. The warranty is only 90 days on the 360, which means that if you bought it on or around the launch day, in November, your warranty expired 3 months ago.

    To be unbiased, the PS2 also had a 90 day warranty as well. The gamecube has a twelve month warranty.