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Illumio to Launch Social Network Advice Software

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the putting-your-friends-to-work dept.

hdtv writes "The New York Times is reporting that Palo Alto-based Illumio will soon try to figure out the experts among your social network with a new online service." From the article: "Illumio is not a search engine, like Google or Yahoo. The system works by transparently distributing a request for information on questions like "Who knows John Smith?" and "Are Nikon digital cameras better than Olympus?" to the computers in a network of users. The questions can then be answered locally based on a novel reverse auction system that Illumio uses to determine who the experts are."

35 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. Hmmm ... by Petrushka · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hmmm ... sounds kinda like the Slashdot moderator system.

    1. Re:Hmmm ... by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Funny

      "if Google and Clippy fell in love..."

      ...their Gooppy love child would know everything about nothing?

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  2. My first question by Negatyfus · · Score: 5, Funny

    Is Digg better than Slashdot?

    *ducks*

  3. Opinions anyone... by packetmon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How could this model label someone an expert when all they're doing is an assessment and rendering an opinion. I can see this posing a problem if say Company X introduced fakesters into a social circle to hype up a product. For example, a social circle with MS workers will likely give negative influence to someone seeking to say purchase Redhat. Coca Cola... Pepsi, and the possibilities become endless. Sounds like an idea, but there is no guarantee of getting untainted honest results simply catered opinions.

    --
    Infiltrated dot Net
    1. Re:Opinions anyone... by innocence18 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ideally you would want to end up with a situation like Wikipedia where you have such a large number of contributors (experts) that it cancels out all the garbge like you've mentioned. Whether or not that is feasible in a system like this remains to be seen I guess.

      --
      Anonymity of the internet is responsible for the views expressed in my post.
    2. Re:Opinions anyone... by Escogido · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There are enough unsolicited fakesters as is, no need to introduce more. :)

      Seriously though, you don't 'introduce fakesters into a social circle', you introduce them to a system. What goes for someone considered an expert isn't obligatory to work for you, especially where usability/design/fashion-trend issues are concerned. If you have a working system that allows you to rate how peoples' opinions conicide with yours, and a hiscore table from among your friends of sorts, it's all that it takes to be at least of some use for you -- you wanted 'weighted advice', you got it, not like you're obliged to follow it or something.

      Oh, and if properly implemented, brands fighting holy wars could probably cancel each other out.

    3. Re:Opinions anyone... by Meneguzzi · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Perhaps they can use some kind of trust and reputation assessment tool. If you look at some papers on the http://www.springerlink.com/(wrwksw55m1sbuk55j3laz 1yi)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&bac kto=issue,3,6;journal,4,38;linkingpublicationresul ts,1:102852,1subject , there are some interesting approaches which have been proposed to validate systems of autonomous agents. I don't think it would be much of a problem to use them to validade people's opinions.
      Of course, a high-level of collusion can jeopardise the system, but I remember having read that even in that case their reliability can be assessed based on who agrees with whom, in which case you will see pockets of people with 0 reliability (these people can then be banned from the system).
      If that's what they are proposing, it would be a nice change on how information is gathered using the internet, because as it is, I am always suspicious of those product review sites.

      --
      www.meneguzzi.eu/felipe
    4. Re:Opinions anyone... by kfg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      reliability can be assessed based on who agrees with whom, in which case you will see pockets of people with 0 reliability (these people can then be banned from the system).

      This assesses consensus, not correctness. The two are often at odds with each other.

      As Thoreau noted a man more correct than his neighbors already constitutes a majority of one.

      I am always suspicious of those product review sites.

      And this, I am afraid, is already the optimum solution to the problem.

      KFG

    5. Re:Opinions anyone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      They're not looking for real experts, but for people who have influence over others. The question about how many "John Smiths" you know is a sociologist's question to determine the span of a person's personal network (in a predominantly Anglo-Saxon society).

      I don't know whether it will work, but the holy grail is to identify a few highly influential people who can be the focus of marketers. It's in no company's interest to mis-identify the "experts", because they all need to find them.

      A focus group is just a bunch of random morons off the street, but someone with a vast social network whose opinions are respected and followed is gold to marketers. If the marketers are ethical they'll pass these people's opinions on to product managers as prioritary and may even give free stuff in exchange for advice. If they're unethical they may try to bribe these people into spouting lies for them, but that carries a huge risk of backlash. If opinion leaders tell their friends "don't trust this company - they asked me to lie about their crappy product" it's time to short the stock.

    6. Re:Opinions anyone... by kfg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Consider, however, a situation in which an audio engineer actually recommends Bose speakers as an optimum solution to a particular problem, even though in general they are crappy.

      He'll be out in left field all by himself, even though his opinion is the most correct.

      Trust systems are really only valuable in finding average solutions to average problems. In unique situations requiring real expertise they will tend to reject the true experts right along with the clueless wonders.

      KFG

  4. Sounds promising. by Escogido · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What could be complicating matters, though, is the fact that the concept is very natural for any blogging or social networking service. It would make sense if the feature gains popularity (which seems very likely) if LinkedIn or even LiveJournal would release such a feature shortly. There we could have a problem Houston for Illumio, because it would be then hard to compete against the existing monsters.. unless their "killer algorythm" is "too good".

    Otherwise, *rubs hands in anticipation*

    1. Re:Sounds promising. by AuMatar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At the moment it sounds like vaporware- no links to the website, and google returns no results for illumino. Tacit Software's website shows nothing except some collaboration software for buisnesses. Hard to say if something is promising or not if you can't look at the thing.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    2. Re:Sounds promising. by Escogido · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The piece of software may be a vaporware for what it's worth. The idea, however, is not, and in fact very clever. They may flop with the way they want to implement it.. but think of all the possibilities.

      Say, you need a new mobile phone and have some twenty or something friends in a social circle whose opinion you value. You decide you want to start with a brand first. You do some preliminary research and end up with say Nokia and Motorola. From that point, you can proceed no further since you really haven't a clue.. or maybe torn for options.. or maybe behind the trend and want to keep up.. doesn't matter. You want opinions of the people you know.. so now here's what you supposedly do in such a system:

      You issue a 'call for opinions', type your question and nokia on the left and motorola on the right. Your friends hopefully indicate their opinions, maybe attach some notes why they think so and what models they recommend. You have your answers and make your decision. Now you have to select a model, you follow the same routine, probably in more than one step, and somehow end up with a conclusion. You now go and buy the phone and after using it some time you can issue some feedback by rating how helpful and truthful the friends' tips were.

      Now if your friends do the same, and their friends etc. and a system that does some magic with the ratings is in place. There you can have a weighted rating of how useful or not opinions of the people you know to you are. With the advantages of the other networking, and public queries/answers you would hopefully then be able to fine tune your preferences in such a way so that you would be taking advice from the people you feel you trust the most.

      From a commercial POV, this really seems to be a goldmine, if implemented properly, that is. Given that in general some personal information on you is availiable to the owners of such a system, Nokia and Motorola would kill for such information as who buys their phones and what models and possibly attached feedback.

      Well let's see anyway. Oh, and somebody else in the comments has the link to the site.

  5. New way to create a blacklist by slarrg · · Score: 4, Funny

    Now all I need is a way to automatically blacklist all of the "experts" and the number of opinionated blowhards who contact me will decrease.

  6. How does it sort the posers from the gurus? by rolfwind · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The beginning of the article has a makebelieve scenario where you get answers to question like "are brand X cameras better than brand y". But that is such a generic question - how do you answer that? What metric? It really depends on what you want, and being an informed consumer, hitting all the usual spots for tech specs and opinions (usenet, amazon with reviews, other places with reviews, etcetera) might be better.

    I'm sure they are trying to develop something more commercial, perhaps to be used in large organizations, but the article begins badly to present it that way, and isn't really clear.

    1. Re:How does it sort the posers from the gurus? by Escogido · · Score: 5, Insightful

      From what I've read, it looks like they are trying to make it work like this. I ask a question, is A better than B? My friends state their opinion. I then make a decision, given all the opinions, and rate afterwards whether it was useful to me or not. There we have a rating. And if I know somebody is rated by the majority of their friends as an expert, I would be more inclined to believe them.

      As to commercial possibilities, the capability to know who really your TA is (sex/age/background/whatnot) is priceless, and the questions kind of reveal it. Looks like they could hit a goldmine if done 'properly': it's much like polls, but with more or less honest answers and done voluntarily!

    2. Re:How does it sort the posers from the gurus? by irc.goatse.cx+troll · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem is they'll more likely rate based on appearence than content. If you can appear smart(like the idiot from marketing whos good with users) then people will take your word for it rather than the guy who actually knows the right answer but has no people skills and doesnt "pad" the answer with fluff to sound more knowledgeable.

      --
      Pain lasts, kid. Its how you know you're alive. Sometimes I think this growing up thing is just pain management-TheMaxx
  7. Another odd note... by packetmon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A desktop search engine enhances your Illumio experience. The DSE creates an index of the files (all or just the ones you designate) and Illumio uses this information to more efficiently filter requests so you receive more precisely matched recommendations. How can a search of files on my machine enhance someone else's opinion... "This is searching your friends' heads as reflected in what's on their computers," Ms. Dyson said. I have about 4 laptops at home. This happens to be my FreeBSD "anything goes machine" and I have my business laptop kept off of my home network. I have about 14+ years working experience in the IT field. On this machine I have nothing but music and art. Does this mean I would not qualify to answer questions about routers, session border controllers, VoIP equipment. Outside of what is known about this software, their words on privacy seem a little off-beat to me... "A simple search of what's on someone's machine will determine their level of expertise... I have another laptop my girlfriend uses to surf. Her cache is filled with "fashion" stuff... Will I be asked to partake based of her cache. Seems slightly ridiculous the more I think about it...

    --
    Infiltrated dot Net
    1. Re:Another odd note... by AccUser · · Score: 3, Funny
      On this machine I have nothing but music and art.


      Yeah. Right. mp3s and pr0n?

      --

      Any fool can talk, but it takes a wise man to listen.

    2. Re:Another odd note... by cgranade · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That does seem very odd. Of further note: the "service" is based on an application that requires Windows XP. Though I imagine it would run under Linux w/ Wine, the default assumption seems to remain that only Windows users are experts. By excluding users of *BSD, Linux, OS X and other OSs, they are dramatically reducing the size of their network, which seems like would only negatively impact the entire project. If they're serious about building a social network, they should either design the frontend to their service in (X)HTML, which has clients under any OS that I can care to name, or they should write versions of the app for all major operating systems at the least. Even using a VM framework like Java or .NET would be better than just leaving all but your pet OS out in the cold.

      --

      #define DRM chmod 000

    3. Re:Another odd note... by icepick72 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Of further note: the "service" is based on an application that requires Windows XP.

      Gotta' start somewhere, and the broadest base isn't a bad place. I'm sure other operating systems will be added if this thing proves viable. There's certainly no conspiracy against certain users of other systems, just good old home-grown marketing.

    4. Re:Another odd note... by commodoresloat · · Score: 2, Insightful
      By excluding users of *BSD, Linux, OS X and other OSs, they are dramatically reducing the size of their network

      Especially if you're looking for an expert on one of these OSs.

  8. Eat shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    millions of flies can't be wrong!

    1. Re:Eat shit by Vo0k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mod parent up.

      This thing will enforce the power of urban legends, myths and other false but popular memes, people opposing them will be a minority.

      "What is more secure, Windows or Linux"?
      And you get 1000 votes for "Windows" from 10% of Windows users of the service who bother to answer so, and 100 votes for "Linux" from nearly 70% of Linux users who will take time to answer plus another 2% of Windows users who know better.

      And this will favour positive answers for questions with bias on your interests.

      Say, you're an emo. You have your disk full of emo mp3s and dark poetry. And like every emo, you ponder suicide. So just to make the final decision, you type "Should I commit suicide?" and your question goes out to different people. But the most answers come from people who too have lots of emo mp3s and dark poetry on disks, simply, other emos. And you can guess the answers, "If I had enough guts, I would do it." "Yes, darkness, finally", "End your life, I'll envy you." Normal non-emo people don't keep that kind of crap on their disks and their advices to just drop that dark shit and get a life will get dropped by the system as not matching your interests...

      --
      Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
    2. Re:Eat shit by PatrickThomson · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This illustrates an important point about the internet in general. It enables people to only mingle with those similar to them, which is a shame because my most enriching experiences come from a diverse range of different people, coworkers, family, none technically literate. If we are permitted to choose everything we encounter, then life becomes boring and you lose perspective unless you throw in a "surprise me" or two.

      --
      I am one of many. My idea is not unique, nor do I expect my voice alone to sway you. I speak in a chorus of opinion.
    3. Re:Eat shit by syousef · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This illustrates an important point about the internet in general. It enables people to only mingle with those similar to them, which is a shame because my most enriching experiences come from a diverse range of different people, coworkers, family, none technically literate. If we are permitted to choose everything we encounter, then life becomes boring and you lose perspective unless you throw in a "surprise me" or two./I.

      That's a load. Seriously if you lack the imagination to go out and research subjects you don't know, talk to people about other topics than the one the conversation began with etc. don't blame the Internet.

      I've talked to people about aircraft and that's led to talking about photography. Other conversations that began with asking advice for a loved one about a medical condition have progressed to much wider friendship. In fact I've spoken to a much wider variety of people from many countries, persuasions and age groups than I ever would have without the Internet.

      If you're going to make sweeping statements like that you're just going to annoy and alienate people. Quite frankly all you're doing is spreading FUD.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  9. How strong is the anonymity protection? by jginspace · · Score: 2

    ...because I would like to find out who the experts are and then DDoS them. I'm tired of people knowing more than me...

  10. Re:"Who is..." by jbrader · · Score: 2, Informative

    He's a long-winded boor with a bad attitude. Stay away.

    --
    You are so boring that when I see you my feet go to sleep.
  11. URL to the site by mahesh_gharat · · Score: 5, Informative

    The URL for the illumio is
    URL: http://www.illumio.com/web/home.jsp
    It is still not launched and all you can do is register for their early release program. Looks like they are generating hype by all the means they can utilize including posting on the slashdot.

  12. What about spammers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sounds like a spammers dream.

  13. reminds me of the Usenet Oracle by Danny+Rathjens · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet_oracle

  14. Teh Ultimate Expert Filter Test by ettlz · · Score: 2, Funny

    In our Computing classes, we were taught that a system should also be fed garbage data to see how well it really coped.

    Now, have any of you around here heard of a guy called John C. Dvorak?

  15. Re:"Who is..." by commodoresloat · · Score: 2, Funny
    yes but he is a god to millions of people in Asia.

    Uhh, I mean, fourteen people at the CATO institute and another seven on #objectivism in IRC.

  16. Lets ask google! by 16384 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What does google trends has to say about /. vs digg?

  17. Great way to spread disinformation by TuxPaper · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Sounds like a great way to spread disinformation.

    Want the answer for "Is there WMDs in Iraq" to be "yes"? Just get enough "experts" saying so.

    Want the answer for "Do most scientists thing Global Warming is real?" to be "No", get enough "experts" to say so.

    "Are violent video games linked to kids murdering people?" The gut answer is "yes", and I'll bet that's what the expert reply will be.

    The list can go on and on. When you live in a society where there are only two sides "your side" and the "wrong side", people will defend their believes to the bitter end. They will spend vast amounts of time obfusticating the truth, giving the perception that the general concensus is unknown or even in their favor.

    You only have to SOUND like you know what you are talking about, and most people will think of you as an expert. Especially if their views match your gut feeling.

    I'm very skeptical it will work, but I look forward to playing with the service (and of course to make sure my side, the right side "wins"! ;)