Ubuntu 6.06 Reviewed

But does it run... by Ant+P. · 2006-06-03 04:51 · Score: 3, Insightful

XGL?

Here is why it is a big step by El+Cubano · 2006-06-03 04:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

This year has been a huge step forward for Desktop Linux users.

I know that people here frequently complain about things like duplication of effort and forking as things that dilute the impact of Linux and free/open source software on the world. I tend to be of the opposite opinion. You want something geared at the business desktop with good integration and commercial support? Get SuSE. You want something that carries the name of a recognized brand? Get Fedora (yes it is still in many places considered the standard, just look at how many hosting providers provide is as the primary or only platform). You want something different that has a reputation for rock solid stability? Get Debian. You want a user-friendly Debian? Get Ubutnu.

The point is that the diversity is what makes these things possible. None of those things would be done nearly as effectivly under a "one size fits all" approach.

Re:Here is why it is a big step by packetmon · 2006-06-03 05:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

I agree with your post however I choose not to use Linux anymore. (I use FreeBSD). I recall the days of Slackware, Stormix, Redhat (Hurricane) and know that Linux has come a long way from my days of Slackware. While I have used Fedora, CentOS, Debian (Knoppix), and Ubuntu, I felt a long time ago there was a bit too much diversity for me and no core focus. I've always been a Solaris fan as well as well as (yikes) Irix. It's nice to see a more userfriendly Linux though since it becomes easier for Linux to go mainstream. I've had computer illiterate people use Fedora without issues. At the same time, I can see too many distros confusing newer people. "What's the difference between, Fedora, Ubuntu, Redhat, CentOS, SuSE, Mandrake, Slackware, YellowLinux?!". While I and those who've been using Linux, BSD, etc., may know, I feel its a bit too much. Seems like every year another distro pops up, gets hyped up, then slowly fades away...

--
Infiltrated dot Net
Re:Here is why it is a big step by yankpop · 2006-06-03 06:02 · Score: 2, Insightful

I really don't see a problem here. The majority of what you learn in installing and setting up a linux box is distro-independent. When you add to that the fact that 90% of the desktop oriented distros ship with one of two desktops, there's really very little to distinguish among them for the uninitiated. It's true that newbies may not understand the differences among all the available distros, but they don't need to. All you need to know is to look at the top five or ten distros at distrowatch, and start trying them out. The first one that installs and recognises your hardware is the best distro for you.
Eventually you'll learn how to run your first distro, and in the process learn enough to evaluate some of the others. There's nothing wrong with switching distros when your needs change. I mean, inevitably we all end up running Debian, but there's no need to rush people into it ;)
And I'm not sure that the more limited number of *BSD systems offers any real solution to this 'problem' anyways. Consider the MSWindows user thinking of making the switch. If they are really put off by the number of linux distros, are they going to look at BSD as a simpler set of decisions to make, or does it just add one more decision they don't know enough to make?
Ah, shit, I was having trouble deciding which linux to use, and now you're telling me that first I need to decide between linux and this BSD thing?

yp.

Dapper is good, but it's not there yet. by bwd · 2006-06-03 04:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's not ready for grandma to use, and as such, it's not an XP replacement. It still takes many keystrokes to get MP3 and video codec support. Want a binary nvidia driver? Due to ideological reasons, you'll need to manually enable universe and install it. And exotic wifi protocol support is still spotty (but better). Try explaining all that to someone who is computer illiterate. All they know is that this stuff works automatically in XP or OSX.

Not that I'm ragging on Dapper Drake; I installed it the first day it came out. But it is being touted as an XP replacement when it isn't. I think it is only a marginal improvement over the last version in terms of ease of use for people who aren't already savvy. The improved theme certainly looks good, but that only goes so far when you are looking to replace XP for normal users. I think the Ubuntu team really needs to rethink leaving out MP3 decoders and regular codec support. Microsoft doesn't seem to have 'licensing issues' when they ship XP with those features, and neither does Apple.

Re:Dapper is good, but it's not there yet. by swab79 · 2006-06-03 05:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

Yeah but if YOU do the install, it is ready for grandma to use. I don't think grandma would do too well installing XP either.
Re:Dapper is good, but it's not there yet. by say · 2006-06-03 05:38 · Score: 5, Insightful
Bah! Is MS paying these people to write one post like this on every mention of linux progress anywhere?

Dear Sir,

Your post is addressing the needs of a computer user (Grandma). You argue that she could not use Ubuntu Dapper for her computing needs. According to you, she would have problems with the following:
- Getting mp3 and video support
- Getting a binary NVIDIA proprietary video driver
- Getting a driver for her exotic wi-fi card
Because this is why she can't switch, I am guessing that you presume she does not know anyone who can help her with that. Fine. And because you argue that this is what makes Ubuntu inapt as an XP replacement, you must be arguing that she em can do all of that on her own with Windows XP.

"Grandma" does not exist, so stop pulling her out. Let's analyse what kind of person Grandma would have to be to fit the description: She is concerned about the performance loss between the nv and nvidia drivers, but unable to follow the three steps documented under "documentation" on Ubuntus webpage to get the nvidia driver. Also, she is completely able to download and install an updated executable from the correct website when she is in Windows. That kind of person does not exist.

I am really sick and tired over these kind of comments. "It is really good, I use it, but I doubt anyone could manage to use it". What you are trying to say, is that not everyone can setup and manage a computer, and maintain a healthy, powerful and updated operating system on it. This is old news. It applies just as much to your favoured operating system (which pshyciatric examination would reveal to be Windows) as Ubuntu Dapper.

As a counter-point, and an exercise to the GP, please do compare the routine of installing office applications on Windows compared to Ubuntu Dapper. Oh, it came pre-installed on Dapper? OK, that's unfair. Then compare installing any other application on Dapper vs. Windows. The ease-of-use for new users is vastly better with Dapper's extremely user-friendly shell over apt-get and dpkg. Windows is more difficult on this much more common task for a newbie than installing custom, 4%-extra-performance-gaining graphic drivers.
--
Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base are belong to you
Re:Dapper is good, but it's not there yet. by orasio · 2006-06-03 06:33 · Score: 4, Insightful

You are a troll, whether you know it, or not.

I could tell, because you highlight "./configure; make install"
In fact, if it was _that_ simple, it would just be "make install", but it isn't.

About clicking the "setup.exe" , well, someone need to tell you to do that. People don't know by default that they need to click that to install. Plus, they can't se the ".exe" in XP, because file extensions are hidden. So they need to click the "setup" file with the flashy icon. And with no help whatsoever, of course. Plus, the CD with the software popped out of nowhere. Or maybe "grandma" went to best-buy and bought the software.

Let's talk a little bit about me. I use Ubuntu, and I didn't use ./configure;make;make install since I am using Ubuntu. It has _all_ the software I need. I'm very confident that "grandma" doesn't need more software than I do. If she has more esoterical needs, maybe she could get someone to help her, but then your user is not "grandma" anymore.
Re:Dapper is good, but it's not there yet. by brainee28 · 2006-06-03 06:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

You just don't get it do you? The vast majority of PC's that "Grandma" are using are Dell's, Compaq/HP's, Gateway's or Sony's These all come PRE-INSTALLED with MP3 Support, DVD Support, and Multimedia CODECS. This type of user never reinstalls their systems from scratch. Restore discs, Geek Squad, or grandson with computer experience. The comparison is flawed. Windows XP on its own does not prepackage any MP3 support, any DVD support, and any "accelerated" video drivers from Nvidia or ATI. None of these are available from Microsoft via Windows Update that I know of. I'm sick of hearing this FUD argument.
Re:Dapper is good, but it's not there yet. by Eideewt · 2006-06-03 06:51 · Score: 2, Insightful

Your kidding yourself if you believe that good old Hypothetical Grandma can install Windows XP and get her video drivers (preperatory to pwning some noobs in CS:S, one would imagine). I won't try to convince you that she could do it in Dapper either, but Grandma is not going to track down ATIs driver page, download the drivers, answer whatever questions come up in the install, reboot her computer, then get her game on. Grandma isn't dumb, but Grandma has no interest whatsoever in drivers (whatever those are). Grandma just wants here Counterstrike fix. It's going to be her tech-savvy grandson that gets the computer set up.

Maintaining a computer is not difficult, although is can be a little arcane. Anyone *can* learn to maintain them. It's whether you want to that counts. If you can't figure out how to work Linux, it's because you don't want to, not because it's too hard. "Too hard" just means that you don't know how to do it already, and you don't want to learn. Windows is just as "too hard" as most Linux distros to someone who doesn't know how to work it yet (like Grandma).

As a side note, it's never as simple as clicking setup.exe and letting it do all the work. Almost any installer asks for an install path. Drivers generally like to ask you about installing some support software. That's not much, but it's still something, and it will confuse Grandma as much as ./configure ; make ; make install*. You're making Windows out to be a lot easier to use than it is. Windows doesn't even *have* a package manager, or an update service for every package installed through it. You get security updates, and occasionally a driver. Why complain about what happens under Linux when a package doesn't exist, but not complain about how Windows completely lacks the feature?

* Actually, it often goes more like ./Here'sMyInstaller.run -- exactly the same as double clicking setup.exe.
Re:Dapper is good, but it's not there yet. by symbolic · 2006-06-03 07:28 · Score: 4, Insightful

I think I said that quite bluntly. And when grandma, or any other non-tech savvy person, can't play MP3s or family videos on Ubuntu because of "licensing restrictions," they aren't going to know what to do.

Actually, I'd be more concerned that they know what this means rather than exactly what to do about it. They need to know that in some situations [insert licensing entity here] is either refusing to avail their 'technology' on this platform, or that they require payment in order to use it. I'd like to see Americans start to gain a greater understanding of the political aspect of technology, and how it affects the choices they have.
Re:Dapper is good, but it's not there yet. by advocate_one · 2006-06-03 08:21 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's not ready for grandma to use,

whoah... let's kill this "It's not ready for grandma to use" meme... I'm a grandparent and I have absolutely NO problems with Linux at all... If Grandma can follow a recipe in a recipe book, or follow a set of knitting instructions (and I'm pretty sure very few of you could), then she's perfectly capable of following the instructions for doing easyubuntu or automatix... although looking at Arnieboy's thread for automatix... even I'm confused... trying to work out where to start with it
and the easy ubuntu page of instructions, while simple, fail to mention that you have to copy and paste each line at a time into a terminal... durr... come on guys... switch on... some people require very explicit step by step instructions to do this...
mind you, recipe books assume a lot of basic knowledge and so do knitting patterns...

--
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Re:Dapper is good, but it's not there yet. by SlimFastForYou · 2006-06-03 08:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

This is one of the things that has bugged me the most about Linux distros, but it's all as a result of software patents and copyrights, not a fault of the distros.

On Ubuntu's site, there is an easy and excelent step-by-step walkthrough to get everything to work, as well as an explanation for why they legally cannot include that stuff in the core distro. RestrictedFormats. Another thing I had trouble with is getting midi to work (not sure why that didn't work out-of-the box, but Ubuntu's wiki had good instructions for getting midi files to work too. I downloaded the DVD iso and I must say, the install and desktop experience is the best I've had - Windows or Linux.

They are also in the process of trying to reach a point of automation where getting everything working is as easy as possible while still complying with the law. See RestrictedFormatsProblem and RestrictedFormatsSolutions.

And as always, if you want it done faster, feel free to lend them a hand. The solution you propose is being worked out and discussed; for starters you can look here. As far as the law goes, well, the congressional elections are coming soon (if you live in the US) so find out how your incumbent has been voting and get 'em out if you don't agree with how they've been voting on tech issues.
Re:Dapper is good, but it's not there yet. by Just+Some+Guy · 2006-06-03 09:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

My co-worker wasted a couple hours trying to install a second graphics card on Ubuntu, before inserting the card into a Windows machine and realizing that the card simply didn't work. IMO, that illustrates a significant reason to stay away from desktop Linux.
Yes. That reason: your coworker should not be doing his own installs.
I'm honestly not an elitist - I tease my coworkers about using Windows and they tease me about Linux, but it's all in fun. However, Linux tried for two hours to tell your pal that the graphics card didn't work, and he wasn't willing to believe it until Windows said the exact same thing. That doesn't indicate a flaw with either OS, but rather a serious problem with your coworker.
Did he also get frustrated when Linux wasn't able to find his SCSI drives, and even more so when Windows confirmed that he only had IDE installed?

--
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?

This is useless by MoogMan · 2006-06-03 05:05 · Score: 3, Insightful

I'm sorry, but you cannot review a whole operating system in two days. Sure, you can get the immediate "ease of use" and an idea of the speed of things. But it's only when you start using it properly every day for at least a month or more, you can appreciate whether an Operating System is good for you, or not.

Saying that, Ubuntu already won me over at Breezy. With the new Gnome 2.14, Dapper is much faster again.

Re:MEPIS: (K)Ubuntu with codecs by Anonymous Coward · 2006-06-03 05:42 · Score: 1, Insightful

So now with MEPIS, you get Ubuntu, except that it's KDE default, and it comes with every player (Real, Quicktime) and codec plugin for Kaffeine that can be found.

And all those are compatible with the GPL license?

Gnome is unusable. by Anonymous Coward · 2006-06-03 05:50 · Score: 1, Insightful

I had to setup a linux machine recently for someone who isn't very familiar with unix. He is however a very smart guy, and isn't afraid to poke around and try to figure things out. He needed to fix some ugly output from a gps device, so he learned a little awk to write an awk script to do it.

He couldn't use gnome. Even the simplest things are painfully awkward and obtuse. Just putting a link to a windows share on his desktop was a chore. We ran into stupid little problems like that over and over for 3 days. Then I installed KDE for him and switched him to that. All the things he had trouble with and needed me to help in gnome worked just fine for him on his own in KDE.

Re:Gnome is unusable. by gimpimp · 2006-06-03 06:28 · Score: 3, Insightful

you and your friend musn't be very experienced users then, as the ui for adding a windows share is very intuitive - where else would be be but the 'Places' menu? it's one click away.

--
i wish i was but oh well
Re:Gnome is unusable. by 13bPower · 2006-06-03 07:29 · Score: 2, Insightful

Well I just tried this to see if it was that hard. Go to the places menu, hit network servers, browse to wherever, drag the share to the desktop. Thats all I did and it seems to work. The thing wiith gnome that I am learning is drag and drop everything. I couldn't figure out how to send someone a picture in gAIM because there were no menu options for it, but all you gotta do is drag the file to the chat window and it works.

Re:Painless Upgrade by poolmeister · 2006-06-03 06:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

Maybe try and teach your granny [Ctrl]+[C] & [Ctrl]+[V].

:)

--
CN=poolmeister.OU=lurkers.CN=slashdot

Automatix and Kubuntu by Anonymous Coward · 2006-06-03 06:21 · Score: 1, Insightful

The codecs and the rest of the "illegal in USA" things are quickly installed with Automatix. Also for KDE you could install Kubuntu.

Re:Painless Upgrade by Random+Destruction · 2006-06-03 07:21 · Score: 2, Insightful

Viva package managers is more like it. This doesn't require apt.

--
:x

Re:Painless Upgrade by Aadomm · 2006-06-03 08:04 · Score: 2, Insightful

Sorry but i think that was your parent's point. APT is a single example of a package manager, therefore it is wrong to attribute specifically to APT behaviour which is characteristic of package managers in general.

--
Mention the Lord of the Rings one more time and I'll more than likely kill you.

Re:MEPIS: (K)Ubuntu with codecs by cquark · 2006-06-03 08:18 · Score: 2, Insightful

Ubuntu doesn't incorporate MP3 and other codecs as part of the distribution because of legal issues, but you can install support for MP3s and most of the other software you want that's excluded with a few clicks of the mouse by using EasyUbuntu.

Re:Impressive by Gothmolly · 2006-06-03 09:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

Needing to edit Xorg.conf just to get a GUI up is a retarded premise, if, in 2006, you expect people to take the OS seriously. If it wont INSTALL and at least fire up on the reboot, people will dismiss it out of hand, and rightly so, as poorly packaged software.

--
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.

Re:MP3 in Free Distros by Dcnjoe60 · 2006-06-03 10:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

The issue is about mp3s and other codecs covered by copyrights and/or patents. Mepis ships them, but they are a reletively small company. If somebody sues Mepis for copyright or patent infringment, what will they get? Not, much, it is a one man show. If somebody sues Canoncial and/or Mark Shuttleworth, on the otherhand, well there is a whole lot more money to be made and therefore they are a much more likely target.

Re:MP3 in Free Distros by Dcnjoe60 · 2006-06-03 11:49 · Score: 2, Insightful

MP3s are patented and licensed. The fact that the legal rights aren't normally enforced doesn't mean they couldn't be enforced (and have been in the past). That is the same reason that there are not any "free" (as in beer or anything else) dvd players in linux. As for Java and Flash, you are correct that they are free to distribute, even though they are not free software.

I do believe that with Sun's change to the Java license that it is supposed to be included in the next version of Ubuntu. The change came too late for the 6.06 release.

As for Flash and Java on Windows XP and OS X, I thought that you had to install them manually, too. They aren't included with the OS (unless the hardware vendor pre-installs them).

Re:MP3 in Free Distros by xenocide2 · 2006-06-03 14:32 · Score: 3, Insightful

From the Ubuntu front page:
"The Ubuntu community is built on the ideas enshrined in the Ubuntu Philosophy: that software should be available free of charge, that software tools should be usable by people in their local language and despite any disabilities, and that people should have the freedom to customise and alter their software in whatever way they see fit.

These freedoms make Ubuntu fundamentally different from traditional proprietary software: not only are the tools you need available free of charge, you have the right to modify your software until it works the way you want it to."
emphasis added

--
I Browse at +4 Flamebait

Open Source Sysadmin

28 of 351 comments (clear)