Lenovo To Shun Linux

dominique_cimafranca writes "CRN reports that Lenovo will not install or support the Linux operating system on any of its PCs. Lenovo is positioning itself as an exclusive partner of Microsoft, several weeks after the companies announced they were 'reaffirming' global market development and cooperation agreements." From the article: "A Lenovo spokesman later said the non-Linux strategy is also applicable for the company's Thinkpad brand of notebooks, although Lenovo will provide advice to customers who insist on deploying desktop Linux systems in some fashion. While Lenovo and Microsoft have had a long OEM relationship that pre-dates Lenovo's takeover last year of the former IBM PC Co., IBM had been supportive of Linux throughout its product line -- including preloading it on Thinkpads -- before the sale to Lenovo."

Comments

That's OK...

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll come crawling back to us when Vista turns out to be a flop.

They were right!

[MrSquirrel]

Hmmmm, Lenovo ditching Linux and partnering solely with Microsoft? ...Microsoft being full of security holes... oh look, the US gov't predicted this: http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/22/04 36250. Of course, now I see! If they're going to bug PC's, it would be easiest to do through Windows... those crafty Chinese!
Really though... why are they doing this? Seems like they would lose a decent amount of customers considering they're not sold to no-speaky-tech people at Walmart/Circuit City... isn't Linux gaining market share?... Seems to me if a market is growing, you should capitalize on it rather than shun it.

their loss

[m874t232]

They have missed a big opportunity. They could have used this juncture to become a leading Linux supplier for the corporate desktop and server market. Instead, they're just handing more and more control over their business to Microsoft.

And if they think they can always do that later, they're kidding themselves. People already don't trust their brand name and their ability to innovate, and shipping beige boxes to Microsoft specs is going to damage their brand even more.

Re:their loss

[m874t232]

The reason I don't run a Linux machine is BECAUSE no vendor (known to me) sells hardware that will be guaranteed to run Linux with 100% hardware working.

You really have to look around a bit more: there are thousands of vendors that sell Linux pre-installed and guarantee that it's working, including same-day hardware and software support.

The lack of Linux adoption is really first and foremost a hardware issue

There is no "lack of Linux adoption"; at this point, Linux is the most common OS after Windows, with OS X trailing a distant third on servers and a closer third on desktops. Linux supports far more hardware than OS X, and far more hardware out of the box than Windows.

The only area where there is any practically significant difficulty with Linux and hardware these days is on laptops and with 3D cards--both of those are real problems, but they don't matter that much to Linux's core market, and they will get fixed sooner or later. It's a shame Lenovo didn't take this opportunity to help address these issues, but it's ultimately their loss.

Re:their loss

[drsmithy]

There is no "lack of Linux adoption"; at this point, Linux is the most common OS after Windows, with OS X trailing a distant third on servers and a closer third on desktops.

I think the claim that Linux has more presence on the desktop that MacOS [X], requires some evidence.

Is this surprising?

[kaiwai]

Linux like UNIX's in general (including *BSD) aren't, sad to say, in great demand by typical end users; if it isn't the hardware support issue, it'll be an issue of ISV's that provide their software on Linux.

Some see this as "Microsoft strong arming", but Lenovo is simply asking, "where is the biggest market", and the biggest market is for machines loaded with Windows, and laden with software ontop.

Is this a set back for Linux on the desktop (on any other UNIX), not really; given that the largest is Dell - who quite frankly, couldn't care less what is loaded onto their machines; start to worry when Dell snubs other operating systems.

Also, lets remember that 40% of the computers shipped today are from small 'white box', local computer stores not the large mega corporations.

Ultimately, however, the ball is in Linux's court; opensource is getting there; it just depends on how patient people are; if they're willing to wait (like me), in a few years time, you'll start to see commercial feature rich software opensource software with in the next couple of years - lets remember, the rate at which features are being added to commercial software is decreasing, companies ( Microsoft namely) have reached a point of diminishing returns - every new feature they're adding, is yielding less and less enthusiasm from the 'geek crowd' and their main customer base.

Its just a matter of time; personally, its going to be the commercial companies who will suffer, they either make the port of their software to alternative operating systems, and gain customer loyalty, or shun these platforms, resulting in opensource software becoming the equal and defacto standard on said platforms.

Yes, although this is slightly off topic, in the end it all ties back to *NIX/*BSD on the desktop, customer demand, and how that customer demand is derived from whether the operating system can provide the same level of software which they need at home, at the office or on the road.

Re:Is this surprising?

[kaiwai]

I think that the feature issue will be a tipping point for Free Software in general, not just Linux/Linux distros. MS adds more crap to their software that nobody wants, yet people keep paying for it because they know there's a certain level of support that's going to be there no matter what.

Most definately; some say, "oh, well, thats what customers demand", but I've yet to find someone who has asked for sharepoint, for example - what is the purpose of that? it seems to be nothing more than a glorified php + DB back end + phorum running on top, which, quite frankly, doesn't yield a single improvement in productivity as to justify the costs of upgrading and retraining.

Another good example is Photoshop - how many have moved beyond version 9? I mean, apart from the Mac user who upgraded from classic to the carbon version, then eventually to the universal binary, look at the number who are happily running their 4-5 year old copy of Photoshop, doing the same sorts of things without any problems. The only people I see upgrading, are those who have this fetish that software wears out, and needs upgrading regularly.

Chief example would be Windows Vista; having a look at it, compared it to Windows XP and alternative operating systems, one has to ask, "where is the beef"? where is the customer pulling, earth shattering, clean slate, 'lets get things right the first time' factors which will make Vista an improvement over XP? already the new 'Limited User Account" (or what ever it is named) has been a flop; Winfs has been purged already for 'shipment at a later date' and the remaining components left are of no benefit to the end user given that they can either be achieved via installing third party tools ontop of Windows XP, already available on MacOS X or if they're inclined, they could upgrade to one of the many quality opensource operating systems out there; in my case, I run FreeBSD + Xorg + KDE + Koffice; far superior to Microsoft or any commercial entity has to offer.

As for Microsoft, they won't 'weaken' but they'll become less and less relevant in the IT industry, but like a spoilt bratt, they'll jump up and down, they'll try to make some noise, like they're doing with Windows Vista; but most people have gone past Microsoft, no ones interested in their products anymore, the hype, the momentum is gone; customers are looking elsewhere, they want a different way, a different approach to how customers are serviced in the software industry.

Sun is making moves; PC-BSD is making head roads as users are looking at an easy to use *BSD for their desktops, Red Hat are concerntrating on the servers are the moment, and Novell are focusing on getting their corporate offerings being based around mono. Microsoft know what the future will entail, and they're scared; no more multimillion dollar dinner parties and trips with customers, no more excessive number of staff employed and being funded off the back of monopolistic practices; the 'reform' will be tough, but it will happen in the end.

Never thought I'd say this

[StarKruzr]

but I agree. Vista has *not* impressed me so far. xgl is just as impressive (or at least, just as useful) as Aero Glass, and with Dapper being as gorgeous and capable as it is...

By the time Vista comes out, Edgy will have been released. I'm seriously considering thoroughly forsaking Microsoft when Vista rolls around.

Re:Never thought I'd say this

[QuantumG]

Who gives a shit what impresses you? I don't mean that in a rabid, you're not important kind of way. I mean that in a you'll install what we tell you to install kind of way. Microsoft still calls the shots. You might like living in alternative land but the majority of people like the mainstream, that's a truism, and the mainstream is whatever the hell Microsoft says it is. Maybe one day that won't be the case, but until a good majority of the mainstream are more technically literate, that day won't be any time soon.

Re:Never thought I'd say this

[m874t232]

Microsoft is entirely capable of producing a next-generation OS with lots of new, innovative technology. Vist isn't it.

Microsoft has some of the smartest CS researchers in the industry But that is neither necessary nor sufficient for producing a commercial next-generation OS. "Innovation" in a commercial OS doesn't mean inventing new stuff, it means being able to sell stuff that was invented 20 years ago but hasn't made it to market yet.

Re:Never thought I'd say this

[SanityInAnarchy]

Microsoft still calls the shots.

I don't know about you, but I'd like to change that. And the easiest way to change that is to put Linux on as many systems as possible, no matter how much work it might take to get an equivalent system, because that reduces the power Microsoft has over you and the world, and can directly and indirectly impact how easy it will be for other people to slip out of MS's control later.

Somewhere.....

[ericdano]

Somewhere in Microsoft H.Q., all the chairs are breathing a sigh of relief.

Conclusion is simple

[Rehdon]

Linux users will shun Lenovo.

rehdon

It all about getting a better deal on Windows

[mattcoug]

Of course this would happen. Lenovo is trying to cut to costs as much as possible. IBM as a brand can for double what Dell sells for, but Lenovo can't. One big way to cut the price, is to make the deal with MS. Cut out Linux support and Windows is suddenly much cheaper....

Gotta wonder how IBM feels about this...

[allroy63]

I used to work for IBM supporting other IBM employees. We certainly had users who ran Linux on Netvistas, Thinkpads, etc. or who ran AIX. You have to wonder what IBM's feelings are on this - after all, IBM has helped to push Linux out the door in the past. They've offered the OS as an installation option so that you boot into Linux fresh out of the box. They also offer support to clients running Linux - typically on IBM hardware.

They've also done substantial work developing a href="http://linux390.marist.edu">S/390 Linux [linux390.marist.edu] in partnership with Marist College. S/390 Linux runs on IBM mainframe systems and allows clients to connect to their own Linux "workstation" hosted off the mainframe (think VMWare - but now instead of running an additional workstation in a window on your own machine, you're running an additional workstation on your own machine but all the processing power and resource utilization is hosted on an OS390 mainframe).

There are a multitude of other places where one can see IBM's support, endorsement, and development of Linux. The big question is where is IBM getting its hardware for its own employees these days? If there's an agreement with Lenovo to purchase PCs from them, I would imagine that this decision will create some serious support problems. It's one thing to have technicians working on laptops that have been designed in house. When the specifications you're working with are open to the communities you serve, you're far more able to create workarounds to specific problems or resolve recurring issues between hardware and OS. If Lenovo is now designing their machines with a commitment to exclusive Windows compatibility, how will this affect the very business that sold the Thinkpad/Netvista etc. names to Lenovo in the first place? What kinds of kinks does this throw into continued IBM development and endorsement of Linux?

Lenovo is making its own decisions...

[DiamondGeezer]

Anyone who has actually dealt with the New Brave Chinese Economy knows fine well that its basically irrational, and not to put to fine a point on it: racist. So it's made it's business decision to ignore a small, growing market and go with the dominant worldwide brand. That's fine. It's made a brave corporate decision. We'll just see some of its customer base inherited from IBM go somewhere else. Especially as its not trying to reassure its customers that it wants what its customers want. I won't be buying Lenovo and nor will I recommend buying them to anyone else.

It doesnt make much sense

[oztiks]

They go off and advertise on /. then they tell everyone that they arnet supporting linux? obviously the marketing dept doesnt speak to the support dept very often at lenovo...

Re:Or when the Chinese government tells them to

[corrosive_nf]

Read the article you link to. Lenovo is based in the PRC (mainland China) while the Linux requirement was mandated by the ROC (Taiwan). Two totally different countries, even if the rest of the world does'nt have the balls to acknowledge Taiwan.

That's what Microsoft wants

[njdj]

if you force everyone to take the wine, some of them throw it on the floor and fill the glass up with water.

After paying Microsoft for the Windows XP that they delete.

Seriously, this is the real problem. As long as Microsoft gets paid for Windows on every PC shipped, regardless of whether that PC will actually run Windows or not, Microsoft wins. It will use the money that you paid it to, among other things, buy more anti-Linux "studies".

That's one of the reasons that the Lenovo decision is a genuine victory for Microsoft and a real defeat for Linux. Let's face the facts and not pretend otherwise.

The problem is Linux, not Lenovo

[jopet]

I do not see how Lenovo, or any computer seller could possibly support Linux the way it is done with Windows: these companies do not manufacture all of the computers themselves. They assemble components from other hardware vendors. The problem is - there is no stable, working way how these hardware components are supported. Hardware vendors do not provide opensource drivers and Linux does not want closed-source drivers. If 3rd parties provide opensource drivers they often are buggy and lag behind current hardware.

But in order for a computer seller to "support" Linux, these things should just work at least to some acceptable degree. Which is not the case really.

Do you know of any other laptop where *all* hardware components work under Linux as they are supposed to?

As long as Linux will continue its "opensource only" policy for drivers, this situation will continue. Simply because Linux does not have the market power to enforce anything (as MS does have). It is quite easy for harware manufacturers to simply ignore Linux. Developing good drivers for Linux would cost more money than they would gain by additional sells.

As somebody who uses Linux 100% of the time, I am not happy about this, but unfortunately, these are the sad facts. Given the current move of Linux advocates against closed source drivers and DRM the situation will get worse in the future. I do not see how it will be possible to play HD/BR-DVDs on a Linux machine or how to handle encrypted HDTV signals.

Unless there is a drastic change of who Linux is getting developed the gap between Linux and Windows will widen -- no matter how crappy, buggy, or insecure Vista will turn out to be (probably not that much, given the effort that was invested in it).

Sightly offtopic but still...

[Masa]

Am I the only one who thinks that newer IBM / Lenovo laptops are just pieces of crap?

Company I'm working for has a contract with IBM and we are using an IBM hardware. I have an R50 laptop and last week I had a chance to try some X series laptops. I have heard that the T series are (were?) a good laptop brand, but I have no experience of them (I've heard that the T series, T42 to be more specific, is quite a nice machine for Linux). Anyway, my R50 - and every other R50 I have dealed with - is just a huge pile of crap. And now the light-weight X series seems to be following the footsteps of the R series. The thing is, both models are, as far as I know, provided by the Lenovo factories.

Oh, and the legendary "black IBM design" with well-finished product quality (case and components) is just a joke. Pieces are not fit together well enough and the finishing touch is just missing. Also, the assembly of the LCD screen is just terrible. Every time, I open the laptop lid, it feels like the CD drive and the lid would come off in any minute.

The worst thing is that most reviewers have been giving absolutely glorious reviews for the R50 series laptops. But maybe drug-abusing is common trait in the laptop-reviewer-circles.

Distributions should start recommending hardware

[deragon]

I think it would be good for distributions to start recommending hardware manufacturers. Imagine Red Hat and Novell recommending HP over Dell, Nvidia over ATI for example. That might give a push to hardware manufacturers to better support Linux.

Re:"wonderful" dapper my ass.

[camcorder]

It's not the distro fault for not being able to dual heads with GUI. You better blame your card vendor for not supporting Linux, instead developing shitload of useless applications for Windows. Just send a mail to ATI and complain about the situation. If you were using NVIDIA chipset card btw, you would have GUI for dual head display, which is not very intuitive but still would do the work.

Btw, for your peculier problems like dual heads, and sticked usb drives, you can't judge if linux (ie. dapper) not ready for desktop. Vast majority of desktop users do not have dual head display, and for vast majority of the desktop applications Ubuntu desktop is superior than Windows, like having ready ofiice suite, pdf reader, im client and powerful graphic editors etc. Besides these applications you also have a proven security.

there's plenty of Linux vendors

[m874t232]

For servers and workstations, you can go with companies like Penguin Computing (there are many more of them) that put together machines out of Linux-compatible components, integrate it, preinstall everything, and ship it.

For laptops, there are actually plenty of Linux compatible laptops, but there is no single recognizable brand that is consistently Linux compatible, making the problem one of selection, not availability. Fortunately, a number of companies like Emperor Linux do the legwork for you.

With hardware virtualization on the new Intel mobile chips, using Windows or OS X as a "bootstrap loader and device driver" for Linux is another reasonable choice. That way, you get all the goodness of a Linux desktop environment on your hardware, but installation is trivial and you can strip down the host OS to its bare minimum.

What really pleases Microsoft?

[dbkluck]

This is actually quite telling. I'm living in Beijing at the moment. On a quick trip to one of the many electronics markets, I can find hundreds upon hundreds of Lenova PCs available for purchase--not one of them running a legitimate copy of Windows. Logically, one might think that the way for Lenova to buddy up to Microsoft and "affirm global cooperation" would be to crack down on piracy of MS software in their home market. Au contraire, it appears, what really pleases MS is not the purchase of Windows (they don't care if you steal it, so long as you use it) but rather the non-use of a competing product.

Re:don't care about mainstream support

[Cheerio Boy]

I honestly could care less if mainstream PC companies leave out linux. they usually don't really get it right anyway - offering a limited selection of pre-installed distros that are installed their way.

You'll care once they start producing hardware with encrypted software drivers that only work on Vista or whatever the flavor-of-the-day Microsoft OS is.

The fact that they're working towards becoming an exclusing Microsoft partner means that at some point they will cease to produce anything that is compatible with anything else. From their business point of view it won't make sense to do so.

Re:When Marketing and Sales dept control products

[Glonoinha]

Maybe the reason Lenovo is shunning Linux is that all the spyware they are bundling in the firmware only works if Windows is the operating system.

T-series

[Noksagt]

I've had both a T42 (IBM) and T43 (Lenovo). Both are solidly built.and both are excellent Linux machines.