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DRM and Democracy

jar writes to tell us Bruce Perens has a short editorial on why DRM could have an impact on much more than just our record collections. From the article: "Within the last century, electronic communications have increasingly become the vehicle of democratic discourse. Because radio and television broadcasting are expensive with limited frequencies available, the wealthy have dominated broadcasting. The Internet and World Wide Web place into the common man's hands the capability of global electronic broadcasting. [...] In order to protect democratic discourse in the future, the Internet must remain a fair and level playing field for the distribution of political speech. The full capability of the Internet must remain available to all, without restriction by religious, business, or political interests."

25 of 211 comments (clear)

  1. Yeah maybe, by 2.7182 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But probably not. The truth of the matter is that there will be a 100 petabyte flashdrive that people hand around that has ALL of music on it and the issue will be moot.

  2. Why Net Neurtality legislation is so important by elrous0 · · Score: 5, Insightful
    This subject really applies more to "Net Neutrality" than DRM. When big media controls the pipes, they effectively control the internet, unfortunately. We should stop that now, before it's too late and the Internet becomes every bit as locked-down as the airwaves and big media outlets.

    -Eric

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Why Net Neurtality legislation is so important by Zeio · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Until we have public key voting and the ability to verify that the votes we cast were counted (verification of the vote should be able to be done online or at kiosks at City Halls, Post Offices and Police Stations) we don't even have a democratic constitutional republic.

      DRM, DMCA, the Patriot Act are making aggressive progress against the rights of "The People," where there seems to be a basic assumption of guilt.

      Back to the problem. If you don't know how the votes were tallied and that the elected officials were really the ones who won and have more than two parties allowed in each election (for all intents we have a two party exclusive system here in the US) we are going to keep getting these empty suit politicians.

      Both the GOP and the Dems are screwing the public so bad with illegal junk un-constitutional legislation it hurts to watch.

      Focus on how we count votes and making voting VERY transparent and verifiable online and may be able to make inroads.

      --
      Legalize the constitution. Think for yourself question authority.
    2. Re:Why Net Neurtality legislation is so important by kfg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Though I was referring to the copying of copyrighted material and distrobution by a party other than the original distributor for profit.

      So? Point being that encryption doesn't do anything to prevent this. Nothing.

      And the customers for the pirated DVDs typically already own licensed DVD players so there is no impediment to playback.

      It's key licensing fee protection, not copy protection. The list of original ten founding members of the DVD Consortium (now the DVD Forum, which sounds ever so much less like a cabal) makes interesting reading:

      http://www.dvdforum.org/about-mission.htm

      KFG

  3. That's true, but... by malraid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the issue is that most people (in the US at least) don't care about democracy. They use the Internet to search for thinds that require little actual thinking. Right now top searches for Google are: the omen, french open, and father's day. The issue is that people just don't care. People don't care that their liberties are taken away as long as the can watch the game on tv and look for porn on the net.

    --
    please excuse my apathy
    1. Re:That's true, but... by iminplaya · · Score: 2, Insightful
      On that note, I can do and say what I want, becase if they want to come and arrest me over bull, I wont just go quietly, I'll shoot back.

      And you will die. It's all good if you can accept that. That Lady Smith (:-)) of yours might slow them down for about five seconds, max. The stock pile at the Branch Davidians didn't do them much good in the end, did it? If you want to win against the government, you'd better have bigger nukes that they have.
      --
      What?
    2. Re:That's true, but... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think your example of Iraq is flawed in a number of ways. The question there is not `why didn't gun ownership topple his regime?' But `why wasn't his regime toppled, despite a populace that was relatively well-armed?'

      I think the answer there is because quite a few people didn't hate his government as much as we'd like to think they did. Maybe they weren't real fond of it, but generally they didn't hate it enough to take to the streets and start shooting. People will deal with quite a lot of repression for their government, if it keeps the lights on most of the time and the water flowing and the gasoline cheap. Saddam did that, and outside of the Kurds I'm not sure if the general population was ever as rebellious as we here in the U.S. like to think they were.

      Second, although I'm as big a proponent of gun ownership as anyone, the value of a single person with a gun is limited. Several people with guns is better, but still probably ineffectual in the long run. But a few thousand people with guns, acting in concert, is an army. So really, in order to make much use of your 2nd Amendment rights, you have to be able to exercise your 1st. It's the ability of people to talk and organize that makes them dangerous, particularly when they're armed.

      Conversely, you can keep even an armed populace docile, if you can squash dissent early before it has a chance to grow, and you can keep people from talking about what's bothering them, and realizing that there are other people who feel the same way they do. I suspect Saddam's government operated this way quite effectively. Even if you have a gun, you're a lot less likely to do something by yourself than you are if you're standing with other people who share what you believe.

      I very much doubt that the drafters of the Constitution ever thought that any one particular right would act as a check against tyranny by itself; rather, it's a combination of our rights: that of the press, of speech, of assembly, to bear arms, to not have soldiers in our homes, which together make it more difficult for a government to oppress the populace. Without any one of those, our position would be substantially weakened versus an oppressive regime; conversely none of those alone would be able to protect us.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    3. Re:That's true, but... by PB_TPU_40 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wouldn't wait for them to show up at my house. The best defense is a good offense. Most dont realize this but you can immeadiately find out any warrants that have been issued for you. All you do is call 911 and tell them it is not an emergecny and request a list of any warrants issued in your name. Logistically this all is a pain in the ass. But have you noticed that minor things, and most of the BS laws, they do NOT show up at your house for, there's a solid reason for that, it is considerably more effort, time and money. Also should that actually end up in court infront of a jury, one thing that alot of people dont realize is that the jury can also look at the validity of the law. If it is completely assanine they can vote to acquit. Such as trying to nail you for copyright infringment for playing a CD in your computer because it gets copied into memory.

      Also in refrence to Iraq comment. Please also note how insurgants are so effective against the American military. Most of the reason that the armed people in Iraq didn't do anything about Saddam is many of them were on his side. Ask any Jew about what Hitler did just after coming into power. Those who were a threat to him were disarmed while leaving those who were supportive armed. Also you state that most things aren't done with firarms. Yes alot of what we see on TV is exposives, RPGS, etc, however firefights are not uncommon. I have three friends there currently, I would be if it wasn't for a medical disqualifier, two of my friends were in firefights.

      Now I'm going to avoid running completely offtopic, however I will say this, everyone looks at it as if we would fight the military. The military would actually end up divided, just like the Civil War. Reason being, there are those that truly pay attention to the oath to defend the constitution and American Citizens. There is nothing actually saying to defend the politicans or the current institution used for governemnt.

      Personally I feel that the primary role of firearms are self defense, however they do serve others as well. To discount them thinking times have changed is not right. Another example is the revolution, the British had a Navy, Artillery, Cavelry, the best army in the world. We were a bunch of farmers with rifles and pitch forks. The reason we won, was because of determination, creativity, and logistics. Fighting a war far from home rarely works.

      I would suggest studing American military history intensively, especially everything before the Civil War.

      --
      -PB_TPU_40 The trick to flying is to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
  4. Uh... by everphilski · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the issue is that most people (in the US at least) don't care about democracy. They use the Internet to search for thinds that require little actual thinking. Right now top searches for Google are: the omen, french open, and father's day.

    No... yeah of course those three are going to be popular because they are common. Plenty of people make uncommon searches. But the thing about diverse searches is ... if we all made the same diverse searches ... wait for it ... they woudln't be uncommon or diverse anymore! Just because the most popular searches are brain-dead doesn't mean everyone is brain-dead, it just means that there is a common thread among people.

  5. Re:Not True by doconnor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How many of those top thousand sites consist of user created content, like groups.yahoo.com and www.blogger.com

  6. Private networks will arise... by deficite · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If the internet gets destroyed by a bunch of idiots that don't understand the internet, I don't think people will just turn around, bend over, and drop their pants. Instead, I think people will just create their own networks. Think of the "good" old days BEFORE the internet.

  7. Re:always ask for a refund by dick+pubes · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Nonsense.

    Whatever conditions appear when you play the disc are not part of your agreement to buy the disc. You bougth one copy of the DVD, you own it. No question about it.

    It's still true that you cannot do everything you migth like with it. But that's because of copyright-law, and not because of any legal-sounding bullshit on the disc itself.

    Copyright-law prevents you from, among other things performing the work in public and distributing copies of the work.

  8. This issue is orthogonal to DRM by WalterGR · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A number of "Internet radio" and "streaming TV" devices and programs have become available today. Most of the products sold for this purpose only receive stations that have been enabled through the gateway site of product's manufacturer...

    Imagine the problem for democracy if, when that day dawns, the manufacturers of our access devices are a few companies that have attained a market lock on Internet broadcasting, thus determining what political viewpoints the electorate can receive.

    This issue is orthogonal to DRM. The problem is restricting what data sources these devices can listen to.

  9. Re:Freedom of Speech trumps DRM by aaribaud · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I guess the idea is that once DRM is generalized, it is a trivial matter to switch from a "non-DRMed content is allowed by default" to a "only DRMed content is allowed" stance, and then, to be able to produce content that anyone can actually see, any individual would depend on DRM providers. But surely no DRM "key holder" would even only think of deciding which content deserves being DRMed and which content should be banned, err, bared, from being viewed, or even known of.

  10. Simple Truth by boyfaceddog · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If people own something they have the right to protect their items from beings stolen. I'm sure theft is very clearly defined in the law - all types of theft. On the other hand, there is nothing in the world that says people must use DRM. If you think it is an abomination, don't use it and don't buy things with DRM. But here is a question for all of you who think your liberties are threatened buy big business and DRM; when was the last time you baked your own bread or grew your own potatoes or made your own ketchup? Convenience will keep people coming back for more. I will buy my music in whatever format I find most convenient, and so will you.

    --
    Here will be an old abusing of God's patience and the king's English.
  11. The Future Is Locked by eieken · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Indeed it is, here is an old article I wrote about this same subject. From the article:

    A system that works best for recording and tracking each and every individual transfer of creative work will serve to diminish that work. A system that works to give that creative work to its audience in its purest form, without restrictions will both reward the audience and the creator (though the artist will not be nearly as financially supported by his work).

    We would have never seen many of Da Vinci's works if he had access to technology that imposed expiration dates on his writings. We know he used encryption in his work, so just allow yourself jump a step further.

    --
    Meet new people, and kill them.
  12. Re:Monopoly by MrSquirrel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Yes, the equipment is cheap... but the broadcasting license http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_License will get you. You could set up a pirate radio station, but it's not extremely difficult to track those down. Also, how are you going to get people to listen when they can hear that one song for the fifth time in the hour?

    --
    A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
  13. Tiered Internet isn't about Bandwidth by spun · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That is not what we are talking about. Everyone here is fine with the fact that people pay more for more bandwidth. The problem is that the Internet is like a lot of interconnecting kingdoms. Each kingdom wants to make the citizens of every other kingdom pay to cross it's borders. The problem is that to get anywhere, you have to cross dozens of kingdoms. Right now, you just pay the kingdom you live in, your ISP. And the places you go, they pay their own kingdom. And the kingdoms have a deal: Kingdom A lets Kingdom B's traffic cross it's borders and vice versa.

    What the tiered internet is all about is extorting more money out of you and the places you want to visit. Anytime you want to visit someplace outside your kingdom, you will have to pay extra. Most backbone level ISPs are owned by media companies. So, say you use AOL. Any time you want to access something not owned by Time/Warner, you wil have to pay a premium or suffer slowdowns or outright blockages.

    Will you even be able to find speach critical of Time/Warner? Doubtful. Will you be able to find political speach that potentially damages Time/Warner's interests in Washington? Highly unlikely. Do you see the frightening problem here? I sure hope so.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  14. It's a Mandate for Spammers by giafly · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Re: In order to protect democratic discourse in the future, the Internet must remain a fair and level playing field for the distribution of political speech. The full capability of the Internet must remain available to all, without restriction by religious, business, or political interests.

    Be careful what you wish for ... You can't allow all political messages without also allowing spam and offensive content.

    Politics and spam already get confused. For example I was recently involved with a news mailing about economic policy, and this triggered spam filters. Why? Because there's a heck of a lot of spam advertising cheap loans, comparing rates, and my email compared interest rates too. But you couldn't unblock my democratic mailing without also unblocking some of that spam.

    --
    Reduce, reuse, cycle
  15. Re:Freedom of Speech trumps DRM by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm sorry, but I left my tin-foil at home on my dresser today. How exactly would DRM suppress freedom of speech (at the heart of the democratic process)?

    Simple. When "trusted computing" is out there, then everything must be signed to run. If you want to speak freely, you must sign it. That gets rid of anonymity. Don't think about how DRM now would be a problem, think about when Trusted Computing requires signed DRM on everything. For our own good, of course.

  16. Re:Not True by EonBlueTooL · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While in a theoretical world, this makes sense, in reality this isn't what's happened. When you look at the distribution of wealth (or knowledge, or access, or whatever), you find that since the internet these gaps have grown bigger, and while the big players may be new, the truth is out of the billions of sites online, the top thousand sites get 99.99% of the traffic. How's the democracy? How's that "power to the people"? While new technologies may come out that gives the "little guy" a voice for a while, this period goes away quickly as either entrenched companies jump into the fray (i.e. Microsoft/Apple/Dell) or new companies spring up (i.e. Google/Ebay/Amazon).

    Yeah but there is a fair playing ground. If people want to see it then they can. You don't think myspace was put up and it just got popular. People found it interesting people wanted to go to that site. They wanted to put up their page on the internet.(Sorry for using mysapce but its a good exmaple) People are controlling themselves, no one is being told you can only go to x sites.

    Anyone can make a site, anyone can put what they want on that site (I think we can all agree there are limits to everything) Any site can get popular. When anyone can succeed, and everyone has their own power that is democracy.

    Where do you think google, yahoo, craigslist, microsoft, slashdot, digg, apple and dell started from. If I'm not mistaken a couple of those started in a garage. Remember that the american paradigm of opportunity is not guarunteed success, but the chance to be succesful with hard work.

  17. Re:exactly... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    for another the guy seems to completely ignore open formats which will remain so either by virtue of the GPL or by virtue of the lack of a DRM specification (such as MP3) in the standard. while major outlets may end up drm'ed to hell, there will always be a format allowing people to make an internet stream on their own.

    This is true, but only if people can play back data that's been encoded into one of these free formats.

    I don't think it's very hard to imagine a future where the most common playback device would only play music recorded in a proprietary format: as much as I like the iPod, it's pretty close. It plays MP3 (patent encumbered, although everyone just seems to ignore that), AAC (semi-proprietary, although documented, probably patent encumbered), and Apple Lossless (proprietary, not sure if it's open or not).

    Right now we don't see this as much of a problem -- after all, anyone with iTunes can encode to any of these formats. So if I wanted to make a radio show and distribute it, easy enough. But that doesn't have to be the case: suppose the next-generation of CDs weren't easily rippable, or they just came pre-encoded in one of the proprietary formats. Then there would be no need for the average consumer to have an encoder. It would be like MPEG-2 was a few years ago: you could buy a lot of pre-encoded content, but making your own was a real bitch.

    Suppose also that computers by default become incapable of running code that hasn't been signed by an approval authority. Even if somebody wrote a free encoded for the non-free formats (which would probably be illegal to import and use), most people probably wouldn't be able to run it. Similarly with decoders for the free formats.

    The fact that formats like Ogg Vorbis or Xiph exist won't matter if 80% of the population doesn't have an easy way of listening to them. Alternatives like that will always exist for geeks and people interested in technology, but they're pretty far from mainstream. The majority of the population lives at the whims of whatever's available on the the mass market, and given that they're allowed to vote, it's worth keeping an eye on the situation there, even if you and I and all the other people reading this on Slashdot won't be directly impacted.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
  18. Re:internet politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The point of democracy isn't necessarily smart political debate, but also coverage of topics the powerful don't want covered. Example: the sony DRM case was brought to light by a techie blogger. If all outlets were controlled by big media, that story may never have broken, setting back the viral DRM agenda at least several months.

  19. Bad ordinance by Mal-2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So the proper answer to a bad ordinance is to drop the "i" and open up with the ordnance?

    This is why those in power boil the frog. In order for them to get what they desire, there must be no flash point, no single act so heinous that the populace says "hey wait a minute!".

    The fact is that when the shit hits the fan, you won't be able to fend off a tank with your shotgun. Certainly you can fend off one cop, or fight a dozen to a standoff, but if you're wanted bad enough and your location is known, you won't be on the loose for very long. You may just be sieged until you have to come out or starve, or you may have the authorities go Waco on you. Or you could just be "disappeared" and declared an "enemy combatant".

    Did you know David Koresh used to walk to Wal-Mart three or four times a week? If authorities had wanted to arrest him, they could have. Instead they wanted to set a loud example, knowing full well it could go to hell in a handbasket the way it did. The War on Terra is just a logical extension of this existing policy. Both parties are responsible for putting us frogs in the water and heating it up. It's just that one of them lately has been so blatant about it -- it may yet work, or they may get tossed out for the moment. As soon as the furor dies down, it's back to politics as usual, and power grabbing as always.

    Of course there is a difference in which groups get scapegoated by those in power, and there is a small handful on both sides who truly believe they are doing what is best for all concerned, but ultimately, money talks and all else walks. We don't have a voice. The bankrupting of the middle class (have you checked debt loads lately?) and of the country itself mean that dissenting voices will be too busy scrounging up enough money to "put food on their children" and not have time to cause problems for government.

    Face it, your gun is only going to help you fight off your equally starving neighbor. You won't be putting up any significant resistance to air strikes, commando raids, or even SWAT teams.

    Mal-2

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
  20. Re:exactly... by kozumik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    DRM makes filtering much easier though. If Net Neutrality is lost and DRM is implemented, that's really the perfect storm scenario. Then Telcos are given the right to filter at thier discretion and the tools to do so. For example they could block or encrypt content (downloads/streams/VOIP/etc) and require propriatary players. It'll become a standard part of service contracts that the provider can filter content and the customer has no legal recourse. They'd justify it as blocking piracy or child porn or some other absurd law and order excuse. For example, many people could sign up for cheap interent service that requires them to run DRM mail clients (to prevent SPAM supposedly) or even DRM hardware with spyware preventing any unsigned, unapproved content from working. In order for the data to even be transmitted it could require encryption and DRM keys, also forcing the reciever to be DRM'd and using the propriatary apps and formats. It wouldn't happen overnight, that would cause a backlash from the public. But if various Telcos and big media associations slowly ratchet up the DRM and filtering/censorship, people will accept it. People better wise up now before this ugliness gains too much momentum to be stopped. The scariest thing of all is that the general public is clueless on tech matters and many geeks are politcally apathetic. Bad combination.