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Judging The Apple 'Sweatshop' Charge
jurgen writes "MacWorld summarizes an article published in the U.K., stating that Apple's iPods are made in China by women who work 15 hours/day, make $50/month, and have to pay half of that right back to the company for housing and food. The article also claims the workers live in dormitories where they are housed 100 per room, and are not allowed visitors." A Wired article looks at the same story, exploring the reliability of the Mail on Sunday's claims. From that article: "The situation is too murky for a rush to judgment on Apple's ethics here, and it may well meet minimum global standards. But for a company that has staked its image on progressive politics, Apple has set itself up as a potential lightning rod on global labor standards. Sweatshops came back to bite Nike after its customers rose up in arms; and Apple can expect a similar grilling from its upscale Volvo-driving fans in the months ahead."
- How much responsibility falls on Apple to encourage its contractors and subcontractors to significantly exceed statutory labor guidelines or governmental requirements in host countries? (Yes, yes, we can all say that "consumers" have the power to force companies to take up the banner. After all, you can't make China change, so why not go after Apple?)
- Reports about someone earning "X" per month are meaningless out of context. How much, exactly, do other workers in their locale earn? What is the overall cost of living? (Yes, I'm aware that the article makes reference to food and rent consuming "half" their salary.) If the pay is "dismal" even by China's standards, as one of the articles asserts, then why is anyone even working there?
- No one has to work at a Foxconn plant making iPods. No one. And if it's viewed as the best alternative by individual workers who choose to work there, then it's probably, well, the best alternative. (Arguments about how people have no choice, or assertions about how people may be "persuaded" to stay in the employ of such a company once "hired" are likely to not be very persuasive to me. And if it's Chinese police or governmental entities that don't let workers leave and/or don't let them have visitors, well...)
- Who cares if there are more female than male workers? What possible bearing does this have on the situation? (I'm trying to figure out exactly why this was mentioned, because it's clearly intended to imply something, though I'm not quite sure what.)
- How, precisely and specifically, has Apple "staked its image" on "progressive politics"? (And wouldn't more effective change come from the US being able to have a global position such that it can exert pressure on the Chinese government and other human rights abusers, rather than trying to mobilize consumers to target US companies?)
I guess it always pays to go after the market leaders. And I'm saying that in all seriousness: I'm sure people saw targeting Nike as the most effective way to fight sweatshops at large, just as some might say, "Free Tibet, and you free the world." I will say that it's rather unfair that, in campaigns like these, it's often that one target, however, that bears a hugely disproportionate burden of vilification, blame, and bad press. I can't blame them though; the iPod is certainly an easy and high profile target.
I'm fairly certain that this will be read by a number of people who think that corporations and corporate behavior are inherently "evil", and that the larger a company or business interest is, the more "evil" it is and indeed must be by definition, which is an awfully one-sided and half-blind way to look at corporations.
I'd expect and hope, from a supposedly intelligent group of readers, that the majority of the comments here will be examining China's labor laws and China's human rights record, and mechanisms via which those might be changed and how responsible governments of the world can affect that change, rather than thinking about ways that corporations that legally do business in China may be further targeted.
Pay only $25/month for rent and food! Wow...sure, no visitors, 100 per room, but it'll be like being in college all over again.
...then stockpile all the U2 iPods you can. They'll quickly become quite rare and collectible once Saint Bono gets wind of this.
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Good christ, I pay a damned sizeable portion of my income for rent and food. I have two jobs, and my typical work week goes well into the 60+ hours range with no overtime. Where's the news story on that?
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This is all meaningless hyperbole. For example, who can consider working on Apple products "work"? Instead it is like Christmas play time every day. When you work on an Apple product, you are like an elf in Santa's north pole! Sure you only get 50 bucks a month, but you can go visit the marmalade forest and make bubblegum pie whenever you want!
And furthermore, you get good karma which ensures that you will go to heaven and receive 72 virgin powerbooks with infinite Altivec and a double dual core. We should be envious of these lucky women. They are an inspiration to us all.
I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.
From this, I take it there are three possible realities:
1. Apple knew of the work conditions, and set up the "third party vendor" system so that they didn't have to hear how it was done - kind of like Ken Lay tried with Enron. "Oh, my goodness, I am shocked - shocked! - to hear that there are bad labor systems being used!" And then they can plead ignorance.
2. Apple didn't know about the work conditions. Their system was "Look - here's the work, let's go tour the plant, looks good - modern equipment, this will work. Quality of the iPods is good, so let's go with this." They didn't look into the work conditions - though I'd be curious to see if there was any kind of contract stating "treat workers kindly".
3. The situation is not as bad as it looks. I'm not counting out the original article, but since it does mention that there are several countries, including Japan (which I understand has decent employee laws compared to other countries), it could be this plant is an isolated incident - but 1 and 2 still apply about "What did Apple know, and when did they know it". It could even be that the rules of "employ mainly women" was used as a good point - "Let's give work to these women so they can earn a decent wage", which may now look bad. It's all about the intent.
Either way, I would suggest there is only one answer: That Apple take immediate steps to show how it "Thinks different", and insure that no matter what the conditions are *now*, that those conditions are up to par with good employee relations.
I have a lot of faith in Apple, but I'll find it very hard to purchase future products if these allegations are true, and the company that Jobs built is unwilling to take steps to ensure good living conditions for their employees.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
I agree that Apple should have the opportunity to investigate and cancel their contracts if necessary before we crucify them. However, it should have investigated this company more thoroughly for human rights issues before it awarded the contract in the first place. For failing to do this, Apple indeed deserves some heat if these allegations are true.
Now that the allegations are out, Apple reputation as a "progressive" company relies on what they do next. If they ignore the allegations until they get too big, like Nike did, then their reputation will take a big hit. If they act immediately to investigate and take appropriate action, I think all will be forgiven and forgotten fairly quickly.
You want cheap consumer electronic goods? That's what happens i'm afraid. Their manufacture will be farmed out to the cheapest bidder. And don't just think it's Apple doing this, it's all the big electronics companies. Hell it's not even just electronics, take the dairy industry. Farmers want a fair price for thier milk, the big supermarkets want cheap milk so you shop at their shops. So the big chains force the farmers into taking less money.
iPods are made in China by women who work 15 hours/day, make $50/month, and have to pay half of that right back to the company for housing and food.
I don't know about you, but I sure wish that my living expenses were $25 a month. Heck, I wish they were only half of my income!
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
You asked:
From the Wired article:Can you imagine there are countries where women would NEVER be employed by local companies, and the only companies offering jobs to women are from outside the country? There are still countries where female workers are considered "inferior", to the point that, if they don't sell themselves considerably below standards, they don't get a job at all.
Why is anyone working there? Why is anyone working at (insert random fast food chain here)? It certainly isn't the best paying job in the world, the work hours suck but it is A JOB! It gets you money. Not much, but it's still better than NO money at all. It's not like jobs grow on trees in China either. If you can't get anything else, that's still better than starving to death.
That comment alone sounds a lot like Marie Antoinette asking the starving to eat cake if they can't get no bread.
Bottom line is, this kind of practice SUCKS. And I'm glad we hear about it, even if it is Apple this time that gets the unwanted spotlight. But this kind of sweatshop labour is, amongst other things, what makes outsourcing to third world countries and countries with very poor social standards very attractive to corporations. So it is VERY much in your interest that this kind of exploitation ceases to exist.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
This is stupid. I look around my room, and It's probably likely at least half, if not more like 80% of the stuff here probably has some sweatshop labor in it (with 20% being made in the US if I push it). Although Apple and the related company are no small fries, they are in the overall picture of this sweatshop labor stuff. Ohhh, Apple indirectly uses sweatshop labor. Time to gang up on them, and about every other company that does it, especially directly.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
Being better than the worst thing imaginable (death by starvation) does not make something good. It makes it not the worst, which is an entirely different matter.
And no one can "work their way out of poverty" on sweatshop wages. It's living hand-to-mouth. You might as well recommend that someone "work their way out of poverty" by collecting 5c deposits on Cola bottles.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah"
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
It still matters to me. I just bought a pair of New Balance shoes, and I only buy NB athletic shoes because they still make some in the USA (check the inside label, because they also make some models abroad). I'm also a bit of a woodworker/tool junkie, and I refuse to buy tools made in China. I'll settle for Japan, Europe or Mexico if USA isn't available. But nothing from Taiwan, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, etc.
The only people to blame are consumers. Demand something else and you'll get it. Settle, and you get sweatshop labor. "Free Tibet" isn't just a bumper sticker slogan. If you really cared about it, you would change your ways.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Ever notice there is no crying over the fact that the US/EU/Etc allows trade with China even though its known that China (or insert any country of your choice) has labor practices which are no liked/lawful/etc where the product is eventually sold?
Why is that?
Simple, its far easier for these activist to pick on corporations than governments. Governments don't care. People call corporations souless but governments are too. Worse we put these people in power only to have them ignore us.
Plus one thing corporations do that governments don't do is pay you to shut up.
Either stop all trade with countries whose labor practices don't agree with your local or shut the fuck up. Want to see your economy tank, fine, try to apply your laws to someone else's country before dealing with them.
Hold Apple/Nike/etc accountable, yeah right. What a spineless concept. Requires no risk on those objecting.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Ah yes, the excuse of greedheads everywhere. Yes, we had factories with child labor. Do you know why we don't anymore? Was it because of the glories of the free market? No, it was because legislators, under pressure by those commie do gooders, made it illegal. So factory owners were forced to hire adults, and because they couldn't get adults at the same low wages they hired children, they had to raise wages. The result -- the kids could go to school, and everyone had more to eat.
China has the ultimate labor surplus. So long as workers can't organize (as is usually the case in Communist countries) and people in industrial countries keep making excuses the life of the average Chinese factory worker will be hell. And by keeping his wages low, you ensure even more outsourcing and a continuing transfer of wealth from working people everywhere to a small global elite.
I asked my Chinese co-worker who lived in Beijing all of her life, and she said that $50US/month (400 yuan) is very little money. She said that welfare (social assistance for the politically correct) in china pays roughly around 400 yuan/month. She said it's also possible that the workers come from rural areas, where farming pays very little. The women may earn more money in this situation than by working on their farm.
However, she said absolutely she thought the numbers would indicate that this was a sweatshop, and the term she was more inclined to use was "slave labour".
I have spent a lot of time near the area where the ipods are manufactured. It is a huge city that is almost entirely industrial park as far as the eye can see. It is a repeating pattern of factory, dorm, factory, dorm, on and on. The workers seem to make about a dollar a day and from the plant owners I talked to there is a labor shortage and they have to bid against other factories to get the better workers, the result of that bidding is about a dollar a day right now. That is why companies are starting to leave China and farm out work to other countries with cheaper labor. On they whole though, although the people live in dorms, they seemed to have a reasonable amount of buying power. At the plants I saw, it was not required that they lived in the dorms, but it was the cheapest way for them to live. All the consumer goods in China cost absolutely nothing so I would assume the people could buy a reasonable amount on a dollar a day. It sounds like the ipod plants are normal market-competative employers for the area.
So if you assume 4, 6-day work weeks per month, thats about 24 work days/month $2/day == $48/month.
So they're doing better than 46% of the population of China on total income. 50% of your pay on room and board is pretty reasonable.
And not having visitors can be a bonus if you're a young single gal worried about her virtue (which I'm told actually happens in China ;-))
I don't hear anything here about anyone being beaten, worked more than 50 hours/week, etc. And given the slant here, they would have mentioned it if they had a whisper of it.
And compare this to old U.S. "mining towns" where between rent and the company store for food you spent 90% of your income on room and board, it's really quite good.
- "History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men" -- Blue Oyster Cult, 'Godzilla'
The commie do-gooders would have accomplished nothing if it weren't for the market system. People started seeing this (child labor) as immoral only when they were at the point when they would not starve if they children didn't work.
Your ad could be here!
Freakin' echo chamber. One person says something, others repeat it, whether it's right or wrong.
_ ld_1118ipod.html) makes iPods for Apple (Foxconn does too).
The original article claims the iPod factory is 200,000 people, despite the fact that Foxconn only employees 211,000 people total. The Longhua campus has about 200,000 people. Not all of them make iPods.
Then the Wired article repeats two paragraphs almost word for word and adds a little more info, like Invatec (giving a horrible link) makes iPods for Apple.
Except they don't. Inventec (http://www.forbes.com/personaltech/2004/11/18/cx
These stores are nearly-fact free. And as to people being surprised about this, did they look at the back of their iPod? They didn't see the "Made in China" mark? Or they thought perhaps it was made in China, but Apple still paid employees $50,000 a year?
These people make decent money. That's why it is difficult for Chinese to get one of these jobs, many people compete for them. People just don't have any idea of the cost of living in other countries. Heck, look at me above, putting down $50,000 a year for factory workers! That's my Bay Area experience messing me up, where I grew up in the Rust Belt, it would be more like $38,000!
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
All -
Based on what I know about labor costs in China at present, these charges don't hold up.
For background, factory workers (usually young women), are not so surprisingly in short supply and high demand in the manufacturing areas of the PRC these day.
Given this situation, they are demanding better wages and working conditions. The wages and working conditions are no where near what I have seen in the last 10 years of working with China and bear no resemblance to what is the market now.
1. Wages
Wages for factory workers are actually above those of recent college graduates (there is a glut of college graduates). A good college grad can expect to make 1500 to 2000 RMB (about USD 180 to 250) starting out. A factory work will make 1800 to 2400 RMB.
2. Room & Board Chargs
As part of the job package in China, a factory work receives housing and food. They aren't charged for these.
3. Housing Conditions
By and large they are college like and are above the average for Chinese housing for young adults who are living at home.
Based on my first hand knowledge of China, I have to heavily discount the claims in this article and question the rest of it.
Yours,
Jordan