Slashdot Mirror


Jakob Nielsen on Design, RSS, Email, and Blogs

Carl Bialik from WSJ writes "Jakob Nielsen took some time to chat with the Wall Street Journal's Lee Gomes about RSS, email newsletters, web design and blogs. When asked whether blogs must maintain a 'conversation' with readers, Nielsen says, 'That will work only for the people who are most fanatic, who are engaged so much that they will go and check out these blogs all the time. There are definitely some people who do that -- they are a small fraction. A much larger part of the population is not into that so much. The Internet is not that important to them. It's a support tool for them. Bloggers tend to be all one extreme edge. It's really dangerous to design for a technical elite. We have to design for a broad majority of users.'"

26 of 161 comments (clear)

  1. Email newsletters better than feeds? by ThinkingInBinary · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Nielsen says in this article that he prefers email newsletters to news feeds because "the email newsletter comes to you; it arrives in your in box, and becomes part of the one place you go to get information. That's the great strength." This is an interesting idea, but I don't think he realizes that it doesn't scale. Sure, a couple newsletters would work fine, but a few years back, I was subscribed to so many newsletters that I started filtering them into folders and essentially treating them just like feeds.

    What I prefer to newsletters is user-requested content, where you can say "Send me an email when you write a new blog post/article/whatever about $SUBJECT". I'm not usually interested in everything a site has to offer, but if they're willing to pick out the things I would be interested in, I'm much more likely to want to see it.

    1. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by Billosaur · · Score: 3, Informative

      What I prefer to newsletters is user-requested content, where you can say "Send me an email when you write a new blog post/article/whatever about $SUBJECT". I'm not usually interested in everything a site has to offer, but if they're willing to pick out the things I would be interested in, I'm much more likely to want to see it

      I agree. I'm not a big fan of blogs, but there are occasionally ones that contain useful information and come across with some thought-provoking ideas. I like this idea of the customizeable email alert; I get these already from my bank and credit card company, and from CNN, why not a blog? When you think about it, it's similar to doing a search on a topic and following the links, except that instead of getting a lot of irrelevant crap, you get a more focused set of data. THe only caveat would be to make sure that if it's keyword based, there's some kind of threshhold that says, "alert me is $SUBJECT comes up, but only if it's talked about at length." Someone might mention a keyword once in a blog, but that shouldn't be good enough to trigger an alert -- it should only get sent out if there's enough about that subject to make it worth reading.

      --
      GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
    2. Re:Email newsletters better than feeds? by MacJedi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As the old saying goes, email newsletters are just a (poor) reimplementation of USENET.

      --
      2^5
  2. What a joke! by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I can't believe this guy is a design/usability guru. His web site is easily one of the most garish and unfriendly pages I've ever seen.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:What a joke! by Pink+Tinkletini · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed. He sneers at graphic design and pretty much anything beyond plaintext, claiming that "gimmicks" like animation impair usability. What he fails to understand is that when properly applied, these very same techniques can aid usability substantially (e.g. Genie effect to tell you where your windows are going).

      An oversimplification of his position, I'm sure, but that's the impression he gives. As you say, it doesn't help that his homepage is an oil spill of inscrutable links, an assault on the senses.

    2. Re:What a joke! by nv5 · · Score: 3, Informative

      you may still not be impressed, but but he does explain his reasoning for the absence of graphics.

    3. Re:What a joke! by ribuck · · Score: 4, Funny
      Yeah. He didn't even bother to select a font size for the body text; he just left it at the browser default.

      There are no animated graphics, and he missed the opportunity to provide an interactive Flash marketing experience.

      And black text is just, like, so readable.

    4. Re:What a joke! by great+throwdini · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Indeed. He sneers at graphic design and pretty much anything beyond plaintext, claiming that "gimmicks" like animation impair usability. What he fails to understand is that when properly applied, these very same techniques can aid usability substantially ...

      An oversimplification of his position, I'm sure ...

      Your second thought is the correct one: your opening statements are a gross oversimplification of Nielsen's position.

      I've read more than my fair share of his writings -- and disagree with Nielsen on any number of points -- but he isn't opposed to paratextual content in the least. He is, as you sense, quite opposed unthinking graphic and interactive design, though.

    5. Re:What a joke! by DrVomact · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I couldn't disagree more with the original poster--I think it's an absolutely great web site. The layout is clean, simple and instantly comprehensible. The purpose of this page is to direct you to information about web design...so it gives links to articles and conferences. What else could you want? A bunch of animated screenshots of web pages that dance in circles around the text? --In fact, that's what popped into my head when the original poster mentioned "garish"!

      As for your (parent) comment, I think that following conventions such as using dark type on a light background, blue underlined links and legible type is not a bad thing. In fact, it's a very good thing for web pages to follow conventions. A good user interface is always a consistent interface. This principle is what made the Macintosh such a success--nearly every program that ran on the Mac had a similar menu structure, the buttons looked alike and did what you expected, and so on. (I speak in the past tense because I haven't used a Mac in years.) I hate programs that use a glitzy unique interface just to be different; you would say they are establishing "brand" identity or something--I say that they are annoying the crap out of me by having to learn a new interface just for their stupid program. (This happens a lot in games.) In this case, doing things differently doesn't make the software cool--it makes the program look amateurish.

      Now, I understand that the web isn't an operating system, or a set of related application programs. Web pages serve many different purposes, and what works for one page doesn't necessarily work for another. But I have seen many more examples of web pages that defeat themselves with their unique graphics or typographical layout than I've seen examples of successful web pages that depart radically from convention. The same general rules do apply to most web pages as apply to any user interface--make me feel at home, make it clear where I'm supposed to click to do what, let me recognize a link when I see one. The first rule about breaking rules is, "Have a good reason". Break the rules only when it makes your page more effective--don't break them just to be "different".

      --
      Great men are almost always bad men--Lord Acton's Corollary
  3. Hmm by aftk2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The blurb didn't make much sense to me, so I thought I'd actually *gasp* RTFA...

    His idea about calling RSS feeds "News Feeds" makes sense to me (c'mon Apple, do you really need the blue RSS badge in Safari's bar? I predict this is gone in Safari 2.5/3 - replaced with an aquafied version of the universal newsfeed icon)

    Beyond that and what appeared in the summary, there isn't much to the article. How does one "design" for a blogging audience? I can understand his point that bloggers, while influential on the web, are a vast, technical, vocal minority - but what does that mean in terms of design? What does it also mean that, with regards to MySpace, one of the most popular destinations on the web is also one of its most amazingly poorly designed? I mean, it's slapdash - but it's agile, meaning that they've succeeded by throwing a whole bunch of stuff to the wall, and seeing what sticks.

    --
    concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
  4. Blogs by dubmun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Blogs will penetrate the masses much more than Mr. Gomes thinks. They are the journals of our age and may not be read on a regular basis by the masses now... but think about future generation being able to go back and read the blogs of the past.

    Journals and diaries have fallen into disuse. Our old blogs and emails are what OUR children will be reading when we die.

    --
    (end of post)
  5. Nothing New Here, Move Along by gbulmash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It may be Nielsen talking on a subject that's newer than his seminal book (which is now over 5 years old, an eternity in Web time), but he's just hitting the same old points... broad usability, design for the broadest audience, etc.

    Why should I design for or even think about my grandmother's tastes if I'm doing a coding blog, or a baseball blog (that's assuming Grandma isn't a rabid Ichiro fan)?

    I view Nielsen as someone who has taken a good idea and turned it into ideology. And when you do that, the goodness begins to evaporate.

    Design for two audiences... your users and Googlebot. That's my motto.

    - G

  6. Acronymns by neonprimetime · · Score: 4, Insightful

    one of the real strong recommendations is to stop calling it 'RSS' and start calling it 'news feeds,' because that explains what it does

    I've been trying to convince my work that for years now! But instead we have systems named ... LTD, MARDAT, APRP, CLSPMT, CSR, etc. It's insanely hard to work with! Call it what it is ... not by some stupid acronym.

  7. RSS and blog design by TheViewFromTheGround · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nielsen has an interesting riff in this very slight interview (couldn't WSJ have expanded the online version of it?) on what to call RSS. It's an excellent point -- lay people don't know "RSS" the way they know "web" or even "Myspace". It is useful technology that could help a good number of people. But between the utter proliferation of newsreaders and naming conventions, it far too fragmented to cement widespread public understanding.

    For a guy who loves to throw around numbers, I find Nielsen's comment about blogs incoherent and worthless. Is there evidence that blogs are being designed for the technical elite? What is this "one extreme edge" that bloggers are on? Is there evidence that blogs are corporate marketing tools even are trying to find a broad audience? These are incredibly dubious assertions. Any thoughtful strategy for reaching out to customers is going to combine blogging, email, RSS and other technologies in an audience-specific way. Duh.

    --
    Online citizen journalism from the inner city: The View From The Ground
  8. Ahhhh by drpimp · · Score: 3, Informative

    "For Web-Design Expert, Ease of Use And Clarity Are Essential for Firms"

    I'm definately not an English major, but I believe it should either read

    For Web-Design Experts, Ease of Use And Clarity Are Essential for Firms

    OR

    For a Web-Design Expert, Ease of Use And Clarity Are Essential for Firms

    Almost sounds like a post from engrish.com

    --
    -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
    1. Re:Ahhhh by matantisi · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's actually "headline-ese": "Web Expert" here, refers to Nielsen. Newspapers use this kind of locution all the time in headlines.

    2. Re:Ahhhh by JayDot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, it's a typical newspaper method of trying to pack the headline with as much information as possible. Most folks who read the WSJ may not know who Jakob Nielsen is, but they can understand the concept of a Web-Design Expert. The second half of the title refers to the content of the interview, with the main point highlighted. So, to summarize, this newspaper headline could be translated as "Web-design expert Jakob Nielsen believes that ease of use and clarity are essential for firms," thus satisfying proper English usage requirements at the cost of valuable newspaper space. Ironically, an English major would have had a good chance of recognizing this as a newspaper headline instead of an attempt at a properly constructed sentence. Please do not misunderstand; I merely am pointing out a situational irony, not condemning anyone's intellectual prowess.

      --
      Meh, a real sig would take too long, and I have an MMORPG to play with....
  9. RSS and email are different modes of communication by jfengel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The nice thing about email newsletters is that they look just like your other communcations; you use one tool to manage them.

    But email is a two-way communication; RSS is really primarily one-way. That makes for a technological difference: with RSS, because it's fetch, you know you're not getting spam. Email is push, and so it's hard to distinguish newsletters from spam. And it's one more site to give your email address to, meaning one more opportunity for spammers to steal/buy it.

    Getting newsletters out of the email loop will make it easier to support some anti-spam technologies. Newsletters are one of the downfalls of pay-to-send schemes, because a free newsletter emailed to a million people at $.00001 turns into real money.

    I like integrating RSS into the email stream. Some email apps already support RSS, and I would like to see them show up in just a single queue of "stuff to read".

  10. The blogosphere is already dead by MikeRT · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's worth nothing that the political blogosphere has already started to consolidate along "MSM lines." I predict that within five or six years that "blogging" will be just another way of maintaining an information-rich website. Now, no snickering about how valuable that information might be from the anti-bloggers. The point is that "blog software" represented a commoditization of CMS software in a way that your average user could handle and is thus a step forward. It is now much easier thanks to WordPress and Movable Type for people to maintain small websites, and WordPress can handle very big ones as well.

    The problem with the blogosphere is that it is "democratic" by nature, but the future evolutions like vlogging and podcasting will not be democratic. They can't be. If you aren't making serious advertising money, the bandwidth fees from your amateur video hour would actually run into bankrupting-levels if a blogger got hit with several "instalanches" in one month on top of say, 10,000 regular viewers a month.

    The interesting part is the software. WordPress has proven to be particularly powerful in terms of forming the framework for websites, as ZDNet has proved with their TechBlogs.

  11. What? by Odin_Tiger · · Score: 4, Funny
    It's really dangerous to design for a technical elite.

    Yeah, just look at what a colossal failure Slashdot is... ... ...Wait a sec...
    --
    Unpleasantries.
  12. Fighting the good fight against irrelevance by faust2097 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Jakob is a great pundit but I think he's becoming aware of the fact that most of the sage advice he compiled almost a decade ago has becoming common sense. Aside from getting interviews he hasn't really contributed anything new or exciting to web usability. First the design community figured this out and stopped buying his books, and I think now those designers' bosses are starting to realize that the $5k they spent sending their people to Nielsen conferences would be better spent on talking to their customers and doing more testing [and doing it themselves cheaply instead of hiring NN Group to do it].

    It's nice to have a face for your industry but I'd really rather see someone like Steve Krug, Luke Wroblewski or Jennifer Tidwell who have done more than design a pre-Cambrian version of Sun's website and a bunch of pie-in-the-sky concept projects. The fact of the matter is that "real artists ship".

  13. right, but not that right by bitspotter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "It's really dangerous to design for a technical elite. We have to design for a broad majority of users."

    By "dangerous", he means just to the corporate bottom line. by "we", he just means businesses.

    The rest of us "elite" are being designed for just fine, thanks.

    He does have a point about the difference between email and rss. That's why I swear by rss2email. it scans feeds, and wraps up items into my email inbox. best of both worlds.

    1. Re:right, but not that right by yofal · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Reading Nielsen's quotes used to make me curse, but I really see him as a pundit whose era passed him by.

      Most of his pronouncements in this article show a shocking resistance to the current directions of the web. His 82% of user are unaware of RSS almost directly correlates with a MSFT browser share - and it being unable to handle it. You've got a massive population frustrated by the lack of tools to monitor fresh web content, including blogs, that will suddenly tune into the infinite channel network of the web, because they can do it without wasting their time visiting sites serially. So in a year or so when Vista and a new Explorer are launched watch that RSS/Atom, etc penetration explode.

      Ooh, sesh-ual that.

      --
      lisa bonet ate no basil
  14. Re:RSS by ChristTrekker · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The web is, and was intended to be, graphical

    Says who? TBL's first version of H T ML didn't include IMG, and his first web browser couldn't display graphics.

  15. More information by Bogtha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's gone into more detail in his latest Alertbox column. One thing that caught my eye:

    Finally, some of our users resented the fact that news feeds are divorced from the context of the publisher's website. They preferred the serendipity that came from visiting a full-fledged website that offered additional content beyond the current headlines.

    This makes no sense whatsoever. If you are reading a feed, the website is a click away. If you are reading an email newsletter, the website is a click away. In both cases you aren't reading the information on the website.

    It only make sense once you substitute "some of our users" for "some publishers". Email newsletters don't really have a strong tradition of including the entire article in the notification email, but plenty of people complain if you only provide partial feeds as opposed to full-text feeds.

    I've seen a lot of resentment from some publishers because they think that because the person is reading their article, that they should be able to dictate that they read it on the website. But I've never seen any users complain that Atom/RSS feeds aren't "serendipitous enough". That makes no sense.

    --
    Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  16. An idea for the ultimate tool by Alaska+Jack · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What we need is a tool that gets us the info we want, in a timely and convenient manner, right?

    So here's what is needed: A web-based service or client-side program (either one would be fine, I think) that lets me set up finely-tuned RSS "smart folders".

    Let's say I am shopping for a 120 gb hard drive.

    * First, I tell the folder what feeds I want it to check: DealNews, Fatwallet, etc.

    * Then, I tell the folder what criteria or terms I want it to look for. Ex.: Show me all items that, in the title or text, include the word "120" AND "drive" AND ("hitachi" OR "seagate" OR "toshiba" OR "samsung").

    * From then on out, I can see the results with just a single click on the folder, like a smart playlist on iTunes or a search folder in Thunderbird.

    I've tried doing this so far with Vienna (mac) and Thunderbird (pc). Both support smart folders, but are crippled because they don't allow finely grained searches, (I can't believe no one has written an extension that improves on T-Bird's rudimentary filtering criteria!) like regular expressions.

    To me, this sounds like the perfect solution. Does anyone know if it exists?

    - AJ