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Immaturity Level Rising in Adults
Ant writes to tell us that a Discovery News article is exploring the old adage, "like a kid at heart", which may be closer to the truth than we would like to admit. New research is showing that grown-ups are more immature than ever. From the article: "Specifically, it seems a growing number of people are retaining the behaviors and attitudes associated with youth. As a consequence, many older people simply never achieve mental adulthood, according to a leading expert on evolutionary psychiatry."
I'm not sure if that's the world's best definition of immaturity, since its corollary would suggest that maturity is defind by predictability, having balance of priorities (what does that mean?), and not overreacting (does that mean reacting appropriately - how do you define appropriate?).
I hate to reduce things to an argument over definitions, but this stuff seems a little fruity to me. I think a simpler definition of maturity is a willingness to accept responsibility for oneself and for others. By that definition, then we definitely do see a lot of immature, i.e.: irresponsible, behavior among adults - probably because irresponsibility no longer gets you eaten by lions and tigers and bears the way it did for our hunter-gatherer ancestors.
But this guy is definitely right about the value of maintaining mental elasticity as an adult. My grandfather is a good example. He was a prof at a big university and has always had an amazingly agile and adaptive mind. And today I got an email from him of some pictures he took on his digital camera that he doctored in photoshop. Th guy is 86 years old. Email went mainstream when he was in his late 70s, for God's sake.
A-Bomb
I can only speak for myself.
I reject the traditional concepts of maturity. I refuse to spend my life doing things I don't like because of some outmoded notion of 'have to.' The pressure to grow up, to think like an adult, is ridiculous and useless from an objective standpoint.
This doesn't mean shirking responsibility is part of the mindset. It simply means I try to retain a childlike viewpoint on the world. One of the most important things children have that most adults lack is a sense of wonder and discovery. The benefits are astonishing.
That said, I didn't actually read the article, as it were, so I may be wildly off-topic. In true immature fashion, whatever.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
From the artice:
The theory's creator is Bruce Charlton, a professor in the School of Biology at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne, England...
"People such as academics, teachers, scientists and many other professionals are often strikingly immature outside of their strictly specialist competence..."
I'm amused that he singles out academics, teachers and scientists - pretty much the exact description of people he has in his department. Not that I wish to suggest that the fine fellows at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne are in any way immature (I did my Bachelor's degree there), but I can't help thinking that his paper is by implication not exactly flattering to them.
Having too many of the peasent moving up the Kohlberg scale is bad for_ moral_development
profits, war and control?
What if they start wanting and understanding ethical principles?
Best keep them all at stage 2?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlberg's_stages_of
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Before we got married, my wife and I decided to not have kids. Over the years since and to this day, when people ask us why we don't have any kids, we simply say "We're not done being kids, ourselves."
And its true. We'd just rather spend all of that child-rearing money on ourselves and keep our options open (go out/take trips whenever), while not having to put up with the hassles of tending to kids.
I'm sure many traditionally-raised folks might see this as immature or selfish, but it all depends on the point of view.
Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, START
Adults are typically hard to sell to. Children on the other hand typically make easy marks. So how do you make sure that your target market remains in a blissful pre-lapsarian haze in the face of age and oncoming responsibility?
You produce them as such.
Thomas Doherty once quipped that "movies reflect teenage, not mass - and definitely not adult - tastes". Hollywood, The TV industry, glossy magazines, etc, are all interested in doing one thing: producing you as an unquestioning consumer whose core concerns are childlike.
Take for example these new Nike Ronaldino ads whose catchphrase is "never grow up". I don't want to go all Barthes here but these ads are so shameless in their meaning production that you wonder how any adult with an IQ over 80 could fall for their message. It's pitiful really.
I'm 19. To politely state how I feel about my generation is that I strongly dislike them. What's worse though is having to deal with adults at my college, who attend to get a "second chance" at whatever it is they want. What's annoying about them is that they are immature. They act exactly like my generation. A group of people who are more focused on social aesthetics rather than concerning themselves with the overall good, they don't even focus on a goal besides graduating. It's annoying, and it probably won't stop. Education is being pushed on younger people to attend at an early age so they don't have to go back, or won't have to do a lot of work later in life while raising kids, and that might make it change because they'll be able to focus on adult responsibilties and socialize with people who are farther along in their life. As far as people in "the west" living in cushy little houses and having everything provided for them by their hardworking parents, that is untrue. My mom made me go get a job. My mom told me if I didn't save money that I would be the man who had to walk to work because he blew it on a game system instead of preparing for an accident from his car or saving for my retirement. Currently I'm renting my own house leased under my own name and sure I had her help finding it, but it's me and my roommates paying for it. She prepared me for it, but I am proof that "the west" doesn't have everything given to them and that some of my generation can appreciate deeper things than how many friends you have on myspace, or who got drunk at what party. Personally I find my generation offensive, but that's just me.
When you are 6 you are unburdened by the full weight of reality, and even though you may not have the intellect to enjoy a game of Risk, you don't care about that. You get enough from the simple things in life, and you didn't have to worry about anything. I fail to see the point you're making about being mentally undeveloped. So what if you're 6 and you can't enjoy a game of chess? If a 6 year old were to get the same enjoyment out of playing with sticks in a puddle as you do in playing Risk, who's to judge the 6 year old for being a simpleton? Whatever brings you happiness, is all that matters to you, no matter what anyone else says.
Growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional... and I opted out.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
Being young, wee and full of vim is certainly a fun thing to be; of course our memories of the times are rosy and wondrous, etc. etc. But saying such glory cannot be found again, that innocence and purity and what-have-you are vital to true happiness is misguided and overly nostalgic. I'm sixteen years old, and despite the weight of earning the driver's license, getting a job, working on those grades, and the horrors of social contact in general, I'm twice (if not thrice!) as happy as I was when I was six. It's the feeling of moderate independence, the freedom to make absurd decisions that in no way affect the long term, the feeling of accomplishment at just about everything you do (well at least all the stuff you like), and (especially) the quasi-distorted, palpable, truly scrumptious view of the future.
I know that eventually I'll have to trade it in for some less-than-stellar job and a smelly home with a wife I quickly tire of, but in the meantime, life is as delicious as a ham salad, and just as savory.
In other words, I'm more correct than you.
If you look at the rate of war, murder, and general chaos, you'll find that those regions of the world where children are not allowed to mature before being forced to act like adults are far worse off than places like the west. While I won't argue that western children are "spoiled" far more often than their african counterparts -- I think I'd rather my children be spoiled than broken.
I don't think that is true - at least not universally. Where I am there is obious poverty and hardship wherever you look however the city is thousdands of times safer than most Western cities. Crime is very low here (virtually unheard of) and most of the crime that might happen is very small petty theft.
It is of course true that hardship can lead to desperation and desperation could lead to violence. So if you point is Africa is more violent than Western Europe then that might be true. However, there are other factors involved rather than just poverty and hardship. However, I would hardly say the US is a non-violent nation it is just the type of fighting undertaken by the US is usually more distant. Long range missles rather than street to street. The visual impact is therefore different and people mistakenly think that dropping cruise missles is somehow more humane.
However, my point is not directly about hardship but about responsibility. People here (in Africa) generally have to act responsible from a young age where socially they are required to look after themselves and their families from a younger age. In the West the children are generally spoilt and don't even have to look after themselves.
Also, I am not saying that one way is better than the other. I think childhood is great time and it is a shame that many children here in Africa miss out on being children. I am just highlighting what might be a potential cause of the alleged increase in immaturity.
perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'
Well Í have. It's sad BECAUSE two personalities (genius vs. retard, excusez les mots) are described, and none are preferable. The responsibillity of having to make choices, and be doomed to bear the consequences: thát's what it's about. Being cared for at six, play with sticks and mud-pools, enjoy life as it is without having to thing further than another day, perchance a week. When summer holidays lasted forever, chocolate was plain good, bikes could fly if you just tried hard enough and animals could speak. Have you ever read Calvin and Hobbes? Winnie the Poeh? 'His Dark Materials'?
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
I think to a certain degree, that something like this happened to me. I grew up dirt poor, and worked diligently to absolutely pulverize school, finish a fully loaded IB curriculum, and get a college degree to escape that whole mess. I went to bed hungry, lived in trailers, moved a lot, and basically ran the house myself until I went to college.
There's something about barely having a childhood that makes me want to be childish. I was 40 when I was 15, so I think I deserve the luxury of a few video games and a silly outlook now that I've made something of myself. I know what it's like to live a banal existence where laughs are forced or tied to shutting out everything looming menacingly ahead. I burned out at 18, and reached the conclusion that people take life too seriously; I made a vow to live and enjoy the little time I've been allotted. It's a cycle, really. I could spend the rest of my days resenting my past, be a bitter old fart ranting of rules and rigid discipline to reach success, but I know where that road leads.
Responsibility? Sure, no question. Maturity to a fault? No. We have a rare opportunity to retain some of our childish antics in our old age, so why not enjoy it? Ever notice people generally calm down considerably once they are grandparents? They've experienced the utter maturity of raising children, they've tried the rules and regulations, punishments and experimentation. Grandma knows the deal now, she conspires with your children to undermine your authority, because she knows something you haven't quite learned: sometimes it's better to be "immature."
But the parent poster had a major point: spoiled children aren't merely immature, they're sheltered and unprepared for maturity. It's a critical difference, and one the article misses. Without any other recourse, people continue with what they know and slowly realize it doesn't suffice when confronted with the inherent complexity of the adult world. Without a bailout, these people flounder horribly, and make immature decisions mostly through ignorance. They'll "grow up," but it'll take longer. Now we see where "helicopter parenting" truly leads.
Not pretty, is it?
By the way, some of those friends of yours who act immature? Talk to them sometime. That part of them which lived hard and grew up before their time is still there. Tell them to flip the switch and speak candidly, and they'll likely comply. If you ever want to see one of your funny or seemingly flippant friends suddenly become a wise old sage, it's a simultaneously terrible and awe-inspiring sight to behold.
Read: Rabbit Rue - Free serial nove
Becoming an adult used to take an explicit ceremony, with months or more of preparation, which every adult completed. Encoding cultural history as well as the expectations of adult behavior.
As more traditional culture is lost, more people go through life without the benefits of it, or a "new version" that can update it to work in modern society.
Girls have lost more of these procedures, filtered out along with lots of oppressive female institutions, and probably represent lots of the people not converted into adult personalities. If women's culture included explicit "rites of passage" from girlhood into womenhood, more girls would become women. At least some men have the bar mitzva, or the fraternity pledging.
I think that if every girl learned about the biology of becoming a woman in "midwife clubs" assisting a group of adult midwifes for a year, then celebrated their own "coming of age", they'd be a lot better integrated with their gender identity as well as their maturity identity. Boys would benefit from it as well, but not as much as girls, just as girls benefit from the masculine cultural bar mitzva, but not as much as boys.
--
make install -not war
I can't remember where the quote came from but it seems in the same vein as what you are saying:
It is not enough for some people to be happy that they win. Others must lose as well.
You just described me to a T. And, you know what, I am _PROUD_ of it. ... let's just say ... less than impressed. Shrug.)
(Sure my family is
However, being immature does not, for me, mean I am not serious about things it's necessary to be serious about.
"Consistency is contrary to nature, contrary to life. The only completely consistent people are the dead." A. Huxley
The ability to change one's mind about things is something that tends to be exclusive to childhood. As people age, changing your mind about something becomes more difficult as the burden of existing evidence increases our psychological momentum. This is a process that I refer to as calcification. Eventually, a person decides that learning new things and changing their minds is no longer worth the effort. The person becomes less flexible and less adaptable to their environment. It isn't a given, but it's very difficult to avoid as one ages.
Although the article doesn't describe this, I'm wondering if calcification is happening earlier due to a lack of urgency to change one's mind, or if it's happening later because people are presented with more tempting options.
Wake up - the future is arriving faster than you think.
This is a bizarre list. In my fifties now, I can recall as a teenager having a much longer attention span. For instance, if I began reading a book in the evening I'd often stay up through most of the night to finish it. I don't do that any more. Sometimes I'll get that focused on a programming problem - but the young have all the advantage in attention span there too.
Cultural shallowness? Most cultural depth comes from youth. Many of the greatest works of the greatest classical composers were achieved while they were young. And all of the great musical advances and inventions of the 60s - aside from those of Ornette Coleman and Miles Davis - were accomplished by people in their twenties - many of whom had encyclopedic knowledge of the musics they were extending from.
Short cycles? Sure, invention can move quickly. But arbitrary fashion? Are long-cycle fashions less arbitrary? Should we more respect the whale-bone corsette than bell bottoms on boys? Were the centuries of wearing powdered wigs more "mature" than the several years of goatees and mullets?
And are we better off in life with no sensation? Would this psychiatrist prefer we were all comfortably numb? Figures. But I'd hardly call his the "mature" approach.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
The author of this article lacks any understanding of the difference between the negative effects of aging and maturing. Being flexible and adaptable are good things, which if kept while you are getting older are a sign of wisdom. Acting irresponsibly is totally unrelated to being flexible. People tend to become inflexible and set in their ways if they don't make an attempt to keep growing. However, personal growth takes effort and while necessary to achieve a minimal state of competence as you grow up, it becomes less important once you reach minimal competence. As a result many people would rather coast and become set in their ways than to put forth the effort and take the risks of growing further.
Once you have become familiar which one area of life, you take a risk branching off into a less familiar areas of life/learning and expose yourself to the possible ridicule of (small minded) others for making the beginners mistakes in this new area of growth or learning. The payback is well worth it, but you have to be willing to put forth the effort and accept the growing pains.
People tend to coast if they are not goal driven in some way to continue to improve. Sometimes, a wiser person gives us a nudge or sparks our curiosity so we continue to grow. Most people become more inclined to settle for less as they grow older, especially if you achieve a certain level of financial success intitially.
The problem is, once people become set in their ways, they want everyone else to act the way they do, so that they feel less insecure. I'm over 50 now, and my worst nightmare is becoming set in my ways, and fearful of change. In the meantime, I will continue to downhill ski down expert ski slopes, go backpacking in the mountains, learn new computer languages, tools and techniques and meet new people.
We can give the political equivilant of "I'm gonna hold my breath 'til you give me my candy" -- because we aren't in very much real danger. We live in the first world, a world where "poor" doesn't mean digging for food in the trash, dysentery, or even a shack made of cobbled together materials. "Poor" means no plasma screens, no statilite TV, and Dial up internet.
We can waste time argueing about flag-burning and gay marriage because we really don't have that many serious domestic problems to be dealt with. Other nations would laugh at our battles. What -- we're "persectuted" because the Wal-Mart greeter doesn't say "Merry CHRISTMAS"? Okay, so exactly what is it called when a man can be beheaded for daring to not be a muslim? We think it's censorship because some jackass wants to ban the sale of M-rated games to 16 year olds? What about the http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/11/16/saudia12049 .htmSaudi teacher sentenced to 40 months and 750 lashes for "declaring listening to music, smoking, adultery, homosexuality and masturbation as permissible under Islam"?
The problem -- if you could call it that, keeping Americans and Westerners in general in a "childlike state" is that we don't have nearly as many problems as other people. We stay childlike because the hardships that force other people to grow up quickly just don't happen here.