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Judge Calls SCO On Lack of Evidence

Rob writes to mention a CBR article on Judge Wells' assessment that SCO just hasn't made its case against IBM in the well-known and long-lasting legal battle. The magistrate called the lack of evidence inexcusable. She further likened their claims to a shoplifter being handed a catalog for a store after being stopped, and being told 'what you took is in there somewhere, figure it out.' From the article: "In the view of the court it is almost like SCO sought to hide its case until the ninth inning in hopes of gaining an unfair advantage despite being repeatedly told to put 'all the evidence... on the table' ... given SCO's own public statements... it would appear that SCO had more than enough evidence to comply with the court's orders." Groklaw has coverage of the decision, and the complete text from the judge. Update: 06/30 15:14 GMT by Z : This story bears more than a passing resemblance to this one from Wednesday. Sorry about that.

20 of 187 comments (clear)

  1. This is still going on? by a_karbon_devel_005 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This case was lost in the public court of opinion long ago, I'm kind of surprised it's even still going on. Apparently the judge is of the same mind.

    1. Re:This is still going on? by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It depends on your perspective.

      This case dealt a near fatal blow to end-user linux in business. Over the last two years Microsoft made previoulsy unimaginable gains in server market share, and they are using it to increase their desktop lock. The vast majority of IT managers, CIOs, CFOs, and corporate legal departments are scared to death of the GPL. The FUD is made even worse by lawyers cashing in on those fears by telling people they need to pay for costly audits and license reviews.

      So who lost again?

    2. Re:This is still going on? by X43B · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Huh? From what I heard/read about 90% of people thought RIM was a group of hard working, entreprenurial Canadians who came up with and sold a wonderful product that enriched the lives of thousands of people. NTP was a evil leach on society taking advantage of the sytem and should be shot. RIM still paid huge, I guess public opinion isn't the deciding factor.

    3. Re:This is still going on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Hey, Mr. Glass-half-empty dude,

      You're forgetting that linux came from literally nothing, and has managed to gain the respect and share it has based on it's merits as an OS, and to a lesser degree on the free beer/speech stuff. Even in the astronomically unlikely event that SCO wins, and Microsoft goes on to world domination, linux will still be there, and will be active. Why? Because Microsoft is evil - it's their nature. That paradigm will live on as long as we have SCO & MS.

      Remember the AT&T/BSD smackdown? What happened after that? They removed the offending code, and BSD lives on to this day.

      So go have a beer, relax, and know it's all going to be ok.

    4. Re:This is still going on? by cuantar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm a student in high energy physics and the sysadmin for our machines. Our entire research group at my university uses Linux exclusively for our servers and our desktops, aside from my advisor who's in love with Apple. When Linux newbies join our group, within a few months they've decided to install it on their laptops because for what we do, it's clearly superior.

      Linux is no longer simply the domain of CS students and hobbyists. Anyone who suggests otherwise is avoiding the truth. It may not be ready for "mainstream" desktop use, but for specialists in many fields, it's the best choice. I can't imagine trying to do my work on a Windows box; we use Linux because it's free, it's powerful, and it works. There's also usually a hobbyist in groups like ours who can admin the machines, and in my experience, a Linux cluster takes a lot less work to keep running than a bunch of Windows machines.

      Fermilab even hosts its own distribution called Fermi Linux. It's Red Hat Enterprise with some changes, essentially.

      In my opinion, Linux doesn't have to overtake MS or Apple to accomplish something in the world. Market share is silly to talk about with free software because the word "market" means something completely different. I don't care if Joe User runs Linux; I just care that I can. Joe User can't contribute anything back, so he's really almost irrelevant from a point of view that ignores marketspeak. If I can run Linux myself, then so can others, and there are enough like-minded people in the world who will help me write software for it and give it away for free. Therefore, if Linux so much as exists, it has accomplished quite a bit.

      --
      Legalize it.
    5. Re:This is still going on? by sfjoe · · Score: 1, Insightful


      Someone with deep pockets; someone who would greatly benefit by Linux's demise.

      Conspiracy theories aside, your deep-pocketed financier theory doesn't hold much water. Public companies have to make public their revenues and expenses. SCO's financial reports show no such income. On the contrary, they have shown that they are struggling to pay the mounting legal bills.

      --
      It's simple: I demand prosecution for torture.
    6. Re:This is still going on? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "The FUD is made even worse by lawyers cashing in on those fears by telling people they need to pay for costly audits and license reviews."

      The only companies I've heard of in the news who've been audited and had to do license reviews are those who use Microsoft, Adobe, or other proprietary software. As such, going open-source seems like it would make you less subject to auditing, not more. But then again, I'm not in the corporate world...

    7. Re:This is still going on? by Pat69 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's pretty naive. Microsoft doesn't indemnify its customers against lawsuits either. At least with OSS (linux) you can look at the source code to determine for yourself if there's any infringing code. Windows? Who knows what's in there?

      --
      You get what you pay for - if you're lucky.
    8. Re:This is still going on? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I view academia as not too different from the private sector. The private sector sponsors much of research and in return benefits from your work by bringing new products or ways to improve the way they are made.

      You also have limited budgets and need results as well. Things like integration and lower support while increasing productivity is essential in the research domain as well. The difference is the market is alot more grueling and less tollerant to failure than the public or research sector.

      Linux is heavily used serving web and database apps in the private sector and also many big corps have r&d labs doing research as well. But liability scares could hit your work environment as well. I suppose some MBA bean counters set the accounting and budget for your operations as well. So yes its serious that fud has got into the way and Darl McBride should not get away with this.

      Corporations might not seem to give but they do bring products to the public and without the public would ceast to function. They are part of society. Helping them do their job cheaper by using good computer systems helps everyone and lowers prices and brings more jobs in.

      Free software and computers should be for everyone. Not everyone should be forced to be extorted because some monopoly likes to fund litigation friendly companies to scare accountants and bean counters.

  2. Waste of time and effort by gasmonso · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This case was a complete waste of time and effort. Hopefully they will disappear into the woodwork never to be seen or heard from again. Quite pathetic that it went on this long.

    http://religiousfreaks.com/
  3. Well, that's not entirely true. by kahei · · Score: 2, Insightful


    SCO _have_ made their case. Specifically, they've effectively gone "our case is extremely weak and you should throw it out."

    They can do this because their aim was to encourage investment in SCO (both via share buying and directly from coMpanieS willing to support anything that might weaken IBM), not to win a case.

    If only all litigants were so forthright. Three cheers for these latter-day Washingtons!

    --
    Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
  4. Re:SCO's mistake by paladinwannabe2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What you may have missed is that SCO's parent company released a lot of source code under the GPL- and once released they can't 'unrelease it' later. As a result it was perfectly legal to use a lot of those files in Linux. Besides, don't you think that SCO would have shown this source code to the Judge if they had a case at all?

    --
    You are reading a copy of my copyrighted post.
  5. Re:SCO's mistake by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fuck off, troll.

    Since nobody outside SCO except perhaps the MoGTroll, Didiot, and a few people who were paid to look at it, have seen it, I call bullshit - or should I say backinfullforce-shit.

    1. Both SCO and Linux can legally take anything they want from the BSD code base - so they would have the exact same comments, etc.
    2. The LKP module that SCO had to yank is a good indication that copying went from Linux to SCO Unix, and not vice versa;
    3. Header files? Sure, for things like POSIX, they WOULD be the exact same. No copyright infringement.
    4. Those "millions of lines of code" in Blepp's suitcase seem to have disappeared.
    Stock scam. That's all it ever was, after the extortion attempt failed.
  6. It's like dealing with women.. by HockeyPuck · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "It would be absurd for an officer to tell the accused that 'you know what you stole I'm not telling'.


    Anybody here think that this resembles some guy dealing with his girlfriend/wife who is mad at him..

    Him: What did I do?
    Her: You know what you did, and if you don't know, I'm not telling you.

  7. Re:The judge's analogy isn't quite right... by PinkyDead · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The quote isn't quite right either. She said someone 'accused of shoplifting'...

    I thought it a bit odd that a judge would leave something hanging like that - i.e that IBM were guilty, but that SCO couldn't prove it.

    --
    Genesis 1:32 And God typed :wq!
  8. Hold The Board Accountable by Rhett's+Dad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would now like to see the SEC and/or the major SCO stockholders (non-MS obviously) hold the executive team accountable for this major company loss of money, business, and most of all CREDIBILITY in the technology market. Those Linux-using companies that SCO intimidated into buying indemnity licenses should further pursue legal action to get their costs back, with punitive damages to boot.
    In my mind, this strategy of theirs fits right in line with the same kind of covert accounting strategies that Enron/Worldcom/etc were investigated for, where the EXECUTIVES themselves were held accountable to the tune of big $$$ and jail time.

    --
    Let me introduce you to my very own DMCA-protected encryption key: BC 1B 64 4A 8D DE 49 E8 C3 7D CC EE 1A AD EE
  9. Shoplifting by corby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The shoplifting analogy isn't quite there.

    Actually, it's as if you walked out of Neiman Marcus, a security guard accused you of shoplifting, and then refused to tell you what you shoplifted.

    Then, the guard pulls over his buddy, respected Yankee Group Laura Didio. She looks in your bag, then looks at the Neiman Marcus catalog, and announces on national media that you have stolen something from Neimann Marcus but she won't say what it is.

    Three years later, during trial, the guard is still unable to explain what you stole from the store.

  10. The Real Tragedy by PingXao · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The real tragedy here is that a gang of crooks are able to game the legal system and drag on a bogus lawsuit for years and years. How many small business owners or private individuals could afford to defend against a legal claim - any legal claim - where the opponene, even though his case had no basis in fact, was ready to litigate for YEARS.

    So I applaud the Judge in this case (I think) and IBM for having the backbone to stand up to the SCO thugs. But we're all losers here.

    SCO executives and possibly even the goddamned shareholders should do jail time for fraudulent use of the courts.

  11. Re:Summation of the PDF by LoyalOpposition · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Right. Basically, SCO is submitting source code with no reference to anything. Heck, they probably are taking random lines of code in LINUX and CLAIMING that they are also in Unix.

    No, mostly what they've done is to highlight emails from IBM employees to the linux kernel mailing list, among others, telling them to use certain techniques or not to use certain techniques to accomplish certain goals.

    What a feeble attempt at defrauding the court. If this were a legitimate case, all the evidence would be available now. At this point, SCO is getting closer and closer to the borderline of being nothing more than a patent troll.

    Yes, but that's not the correct term as SCO have no patents. Vexatious Litigant? Frivolous lawsuit?

    -Loyal

    --
    I aim to misbehave.
  12. See I told you so... by Laura_DilDio · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Laura DiDio, a senior industry analyst of the Yankee Group who tracks SCO, says Wells's latest ruling isn't a surprise.

    Laura is such a two-faced windbag! She spends months berating Linux and IBM -- hell, she's seen the supposed evidence, and now she's doing an about-face so she can proclaim that as an industry analyst, her forcasts are "spot on".

    The Yankee Group (and especially Laura) wouldn't know their own asses from a hole in the ground.