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The Grumpy Gamer Speaks
Ron Gilbert, well-known for his work during the golden age of LucasArts adventure games, is also well known as The Grumpy Gamer. Gamasutra has up an interview with Gilbert, discussing his career in the post-Threepwood period of his life. From the article: "It's actually kind of frightening, you know. You sit down with a publisher and the minute you mention anything like an adventure game or something story-based or adventure-game-like in any way, the meeting's basically over. So the publishers do have a huge resistance to this. And I think a lot of it is that they cannot point to anything like this that is successful in the market today. So it's very difficult for them to put anything behind it. It's a very difficult process."
The grumpy gamer ended his interview by shaking his fist and yelling "You damn kids! Get of my LAN!!"
Some of the best gaming moments I ever had were from the Monkey Island/Sam and Max/Day of the Tentacle days. Never played them but from what I know Full Throttle and Grim fandango did extremely well critically too - I should also include Psychonauts here too, a game which I have absolutely caned recently?. For contrast I have had many other great gaming moments RE4, Bubble Bobble, Gradius etc.. You know what I'm trying to say. Fuck the publishers they really ought to look further than the balance sheet if they want their (read:our) industry to survive past PacManBisexual.
Don't get me wrong, I play San Andreas just as mush as the next guy. SA looks great, the game play is fun and the controls are easy. And yes, I can pull a lot of social commentary and some story out of it. I also turn SA off and fire up my old consoles and play Chrono Trigger or FF7. Even though these games look like crap by modern standards, I still enjoy them because, either because of the quality of the gameplay or the story. Heck, I even bust out the old Infocom text adventures on occasion.
Lose: misplace or fail || Loose: not bound together
Pointing out that GTA-style games aren't very good at storytelling isn't 'GTA-bashing'. It's obvious to anyone who knows anything about game design. I don't see any comments in the article by Gilbert that remotely qualify as GTA-bashing.
Of course, you probably didn't read the article...
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games today are lacking in story and adventure when compared to games of old. Sure they look great, but they lack that compelling factor.
That isn't a problem for everyone. If I am playing a game with cutscenes, stories, etc. I always skip them. Is the idea that I am supposed to "pretend" to be the character and become engrossed in pathetically scripted storylines? Please. Most people have trouble enough distinguishing reality in the first place. It is important to distinguish in your mind that your "desktop" is a virtual space that is created through signs and symbols but the reality is that you are staring at a computer monitor.
Personally I would worry about someone who became engrossed by moving images to such an extent and "preferred" these "story and adventure" games... television and the internet are isolating mediums which create illusions of engagement with society. There is a famous argument that the Gulf War never happened for the reason that the real "war" as it was understood was a series of moving images on a TV screen.
I have to say that's really why I was dissapointed in HalfLife2... the story simply didn't do it for me.
HL was a journey. You started off with nothing and the character learned along the way... the bad guys changed and the demands on the player's abilities grew as well (this isn't a book it's a game. I want to learn stuff, even if it's how to take out the giant gorilla thing with the buzzy bee gun). By the end of the game I felt I'd done something.
HL2 looked way cooler but really, where was the story? It was hit and run, shoot everything and then, THEN, just as you get to the big Boss fight at the end... we get the Matrix effect and you're away with the fairies. There was no upgrading of the bad guys along the way, no new skills (notice how the boat and the dune buggy handled the same way? Learn it once, use it again and again) and OK, I enjoyed sending the sand lions in to fight on my behalf but really, that was the high point.
I'm not talking about the look (which was excellent) or the "feel" of the game (which I enjoyed) but the story line itself.
I am a leaf on the wind
Yes, the adventure genre had its golden hour back in the Sam and Max/Monkey Island days, but there are still companies that are dedicated to the genre. For example, I can't wait for the guys at TellTale to release their first Sam and Max episode. (This is the company that was formed by those who were on the Sam and Max sequel team when LucasArts idiotically abandoned their Sam and Max development when it was estimated to be 90% finished.)
You're not going to make a successful adventure game for $10 million. But you can certainly make successful one for one or $2 million.
This really sums up the problem with the current video game industry. The big wigs apparently have this ridiculous attitude that spending more will mean earning more, but only with certain genres. Otherwise, it's just not worth it because they apparently believe that they "have" to spend big bucks. Look at how many licenses are purchased every year, particularly from sports organizations. You can't tell me that in all circumstances changing the offical logos, changing the names of the players, getting very talented voice actors who sound like the real announcers but cost 1/10th a much, but keeping the exact same game play suddenly means death for the game. People want games that they can play and enjoy. Changing a name from NFL to "Pro-Football" thereby saving who knows how many millions in licensing costs might turn a few narrow-minded morons away, but if the game is really good, people will buy it. History has shown that time and time again. A probably-now-forgotten company originally called "Apogee" comes to mind.
And that brings up another question. Does he really need a publisher? With electronic distributions as popular as they are, the increase in the number of people who have broadband, and the increasing popularity of delivery methods like Steam, does any game company really need a distributor to hold them back from at least an initial release - just enough to get the word spreading about the games that he releases? Again, look at Apgoee and its associated company iD, both of which were very popular from the electronic/shareware release method. No, it won't work with all types of games, but in this world of broadband and the Internet, where we only had dial-up and BBSes, I think that electronic distributin has a much better opportunity for success than ever.
Just my two cents.
The Overrated mod is for reversing inappropriate, positive mods, not for voicing disagreement with a post.
One of the things that made adventure games good back in the day is that if you got stuck on a puzzle, you really had to nut it out. Walkthroughs and hints were not as easy to come by. Much of the gameplay in an adventure game is the solving of the puzzles, if you can easily get help when you get stuck, there isn't that much gameplay in such games. I think this is why games like Psychonauts are the next logical step, they have similar elements but more elements to them than the old adventure games that are purely problem solving.
Blessed are the 1337, for they shall pwn the earth.
Over reliance on cut scenes and expositive narrative techniques are a sign of weak story telling in the game genre. A good game that tells a good story needn't depend on these. In fact (I think you'd agree from what you're telling me) they get in the way.
Perhaps what Game companies need to do is hire a dramaturge.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
At this point I'd half expect someone to be able to make a game in their freaking basement, and then jump start a studio off just a few thousand digital download sales, with a few thousand in revenue. I mean really, we've got the Gimp, various free audio editing tools, Python is Free/Free. Studio recording equipment is Ass-cheap. What's stopping people?
You sit down with a publisher and the minute you mention anything like an adventure game or something story-based or adventure-game-like in any way, the meeting's basically over.
Your Honor, how do you explain the existence, and subsequence release of the popular Nintendo DS adventure-attourney game, 'Phoenix Wright: Ace Attourney' (Originally a Game Boy Advance game: 'Gyakuten Saiban' roughly 'Comeback Court')
No, terrible localisations full of "clever" jokes, and lead voice-actors they'd literally pulled off the street are what killed Working Designs.
GTA, all iterations, are pathetically overhyped. They offer the illusion of a 'freeform' world, but always become bogged down in a series of scripted missions that can more or less only go in one particular order. Then, we always get a samey 'story' about some gangster (Or Blaxploitation in San Andreas) and immature drug/sex/violence jokes. There are games that outdo every aspect of GTA, except they don't have to lower themselves to encouraging the player to murder civilians for no reason. Hell, even Fable and Freelancer were better than GTA. They looked a whole lot better too, and the worlds felt like they had been crafted with care.
I'd argue with you over this, there are some games who tell a lot of the story in cut scenes of one form or another and do it extremely well. Resident evil for example does it well, the plot is perfectly b-movie grade and works awesomely witht he cut scenes.
I tink people forget something. Games are all different, some games suit some things and other games suit other things. I'm an old school RPG player so I perfer my characters to talk in text and cut scenes more or less to start and end the game (Tales of symphonia and Shin Megami Tensei 3 come to mind here, as long as you turn the dubbing off in ToS as I did).
But there are people who love the FMVs and huge overly unneeded movie sections in FF games. These people are also part of the same market and should be accepted and allowed their share of the pie. The problem is as the article says, people at the top are going "okay sure!" when they ask for more, but when we ask for more we have to pray Japan makes something and Atlus picks it up (BTW, Super robot taisen : Original generation on the GBA is out soon, for the love of God support the series, it's awesome and I've never seen a single FMV on the GBA versions).
Just because you don't like interactive movies doesn't mean the same applies to you.
I like muppets.
It's "when".
And the answer is: somewhere around 1999.
Nintendo thinks more people will buy an affordable 480p console than an expensive 720p console. Yo muthafscka Wii!
Why is stretching an image not acceptable? In 2006 we have smarter line art stretching algorithms such as Scale2x/Scale3x and hq2x/hq3x, and we have LCD HDTVs that stretch SDTV to 720p and also stretch 1080i to 720p. Heck, on a 1280-pixel monitor, you can emulate a 640-pixel monitor.
Why is running the game in a window not acceptable? For one thing, it lets the player more easily switch between the game and the online hint book.
Third choice: Vector graphics. Ever heard of Inkscape?
So why did Lucasarts stop with adventures?
To be honest I think this guy might be too blame with his "getting adventures into the mainstream" crap. Now its RPG he tries to bolt ontop of it to create some frankenstein monster, back then it was 3D.
Yes I know some people loved Grim Fandango and the last monkey island but can it be a coincedence that these were also the last adventures? A long line of 2D adventures, a handfull of 3D and bam, the end of the adventure era.
I am not totally against 3D but that one MI game didn't really do anything with 3D just made it a bitch to control. The sleeper hit The Longest Journey also used 3D but in a 2D world so that 99% of the time it behaved just like a old 2D game but with 3D models. Mmm, 3d April in her undies.
Adventures worked when they were adventures. Easily controlled puzzle games that were fun to play. Who here really thought the fighting scenes in Full Throttle were fun? The 3D world in the last monkey island. For that matter any of the mini arcade games that Sierra always tried to squeeze in?
If the adventure is going to make a comeback it is going to be in the form of the old adventure. Just the adventure and nothing but the adventure. If you look at the small successes that is exactly what happened.
Stop listening to game reviewers who laud every game that does something unusual and simply rely on your gaming audience.
This guy says it himself, there is a market for old scumm games but then totally fails to realize what this means by saying he wants to add RPG elements. Hello! There is a market for old scumm games. That is it! The OLD scumm games. So any new game should NOT try to add anything new. If people wanted that they would be playing the new games.
The whole adventure debacle reminds me of the new coke crap. Except that game developers like this guy seem unable to grasp the fact "people upset with new product, lets give them old product back". Instead he keeps coming up with new recipes while the customers just want their old coke back.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
games today are lacking in story and adventure when compared to games of old. Sure they look great, but they lack that compelling factor.
How can we forget the amazing plot twists of Pac-Man, not to mention the surprise ending! And no other game tells the story of the futility of mankind's survival like Asteroids.
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Nintendo DS, this platform already within the last months has had two higly successful adventure game releases one being Phoenix Wright the other one Another Code by Cing. The next one, Hotel Dusk already is in the line, adventure games fit perfectly into the lineup of the machine, which also has a very high emphasis on adult puzzle games like Dr. Kawashis Brain Jogging,and also the stylus is a perfect blend to point and click mechanisms.
GTA3 - Story about a bank heist double cross and a series of mob bosses that double cross each other plus a media tycoon whose nuts, and the eventual catch up with said bank double cross.
Sounds like a fucking story.
Vice City - Cocaine deal goes bad, you have to track down and infiltrate the guy who did it, pick up a power-hungry parter (or 3) and double cross the origonal family that didn't reward you for going state's evidence.
Sounds like a fucking story.
San Andreas - Bad cops, toss you into the gang wilderness, and you have to build your way up with minor turf wars until you work with regional mob bosses and the governement.
Sounds like a fucking story.
The article - which I read - put out in glowing letters, that the open sandbox nature of the game lent itself for only player driven narritives. This is bullshit. So Mod me down fuckos, or play the goddamn game.
Actually, many games attempt to rectify this, and fail miserably. The standard nowadays is an incredibly hackneyed, tacky, cliched and, if voice talent is present, terribly overacted plotline. Most this/next gen storylines are an embarrassment, and generally you want to wear headphones in case anyone happens to overhear the mortifying content that's sold as "compelling story". Usually, it's boisterous californians, complete with modern san francisco mores, transplanted into a sci-fi or medival fantasy world, taking themselves way too seriously and delivering woeful lines with enough sauce to make Plan 9 look like an expertly choreographed space epic.
Look at Super Mario. Classic games, stand the test of time. Games that good don't need a story. Sonic and Knuckles managed to convey all the plot progression it needed to without a single utterance, text or otherwise, and wth one paragraph in the manual. The game did not need anything else. That's how things should be done. I shudder to think about the Sonic Adventure games, and how perfectly playable games were almost ruined by some idiots junior hight attempt at a "compelling storyline".
Metroid Prime is an example of a modern game that got this 100% right. The story is there, but only if you give a damn. It's nice and text based, so no west coast hysterics will bring the whole household in to gawk at the idiocy. I would have gotten rid of the ridiculous V/O, but since it's only a few lines, I'm willing to let that go.
If you want an example of how to put a "compelling story" complete with voice acting and "movie quality" action, then you have to go to Metal Gear Solid. The first one. That's the level you have to go to. If you're not prepared to, please don't have the characters, especially the NPC's speak. It's very irritating.
May the Maths Be with you!
From TFA, Gilbert describing what he would want to do with a game: You've got the action, some light combat, you know, Diablo-style combat going on with it, but it is also infused with really good adventure-game-style puzzles and adventure-style sensibilities to the storytelling. So what you can do there is take those puzzles and that storytelling that really appeal to people on a certain level, but you can fuse it with the kind of action and mindless play mixed in.
While I pretty much like what Gilbert says in TFA, here is going completely in the wrong direction. He does not seem to realise that the people who want stories and adventure-style puzzles are turned off by mindless action sequences. Mixing up different styles is a surefire way to make a game fail miserably. Try to please all, and you wll please none.
Has no one played Dreamfall: The Longest Journey??? (Note: I did not have time to read prior comments, apologize if this was already mentioned...) I finished that game recently, it came out April of this year, and I was thoroughly impressed. Yes, it's an adventure game...and it was awesome. I'm just sitting here waiting for the sequel...and I find this article. *shakes head* It makes me sad. Adventure games are wonderful.
"Success isn't a result of a spontaneous combustion. You must set yourself on fire." - Arnold H. Glasgow