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UK Gives Go-Ahead to Gary McKinnon Extradition
robzster1977 writes "Judges in the UK have given the go-ahead to the extradition of UK hacker Gary McKinnon. McKinnon is accused of breaking into US Navy, Army and Department of Defense computers in 2001 and 2002." From the article: "On 4 July the secretary of state signed an order for Mr McKinnon's extradition to the United States for charges connected with computer hacking. Mr McKinnon had exercised his right to submit representations against return but the secretary of state did not consider the issues raised availed Mr McKinnon."
Gotta wonder if he picked July 4th on purpose. :)
This is a real tragedy for those who believe in the freedom to break into the computer systems of foreign militaries looking for UFOs.
Whoever they are.
Hey, Gary.
Conjugal visits? Mmmm. Not that I know of. Y'know, minimum-security prison is no picnic. I have a client in there right now. He says the trick is: kick someone's ass the first day, or become someone's bitch. Then everything will be all right.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
One finds it hard to disagree with the judgement that a hacker who illegally breaks into someone's system should face jail time. Regardless of his supposed hunt (and his curiously as yet un-proven discovery) of UFO technology, or the dubious figures of damages the US government produced, what he did was wrong. The problem really lies in the way we in the UK have implemented extradition legislation to the US. Evidence is not required going one way - UK -> USA - but is the other, as congress has yet to ratify / pass the law. This seems remarkably un-fair on British citizens, and in this sense, you can understand his frustration - and that of others - note the so called Natwest 3 who appear to be heading off to western shores in the near future.
If they leave the big red button there with no security around it or guards, eventually someone is going to push it simply because they can. This guy could have actually been destructive, and took their network down. He didn't. spare me the "yadda yadda it was very serious" replies, anyone with a glint of technical knowledge knows it wasn't.
Hail the new american slogan, "It isn't fascism when we do it!"
I've seen this guy in interviews. A clever man, who obviously has a lot more to give to the world. Shame he's going to get disappeared.
What's the consensus on this board, guys? Will Mr. McKinnon receive a trial of comparable fairness in the US as in the UK? If found guilty, will his sentence be proportionate to his crime (the DoJ has indicted him on seven counts of computer fraud, each with a maximum of ten years imprisonment and a $250,000 fine)?
Gary McKinnon is another poor dumb son of a bitch. He may well be mentally ill. There's a saying among criminals, don't do the crime if you can't do the time. I think McKinnon will get eaten alive, served up as a reminder that big brother cuts you no slack when it comes to stealing their information.
Master criminals execute plans, most convicts commit crimes. Convicts get caught up in committing a crime, they're their own drug dealers and they're junkies. Their brains serve them up a high that comes from breaking the law. Convicts fill our prisons and take their cred from the hard time they do. McKinnon is his own junkie, a convict juiced on committing a crime. His delusions will probablly cost him his life whether he gets to go on living or not.
just my loose change
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
Spare me the "hacking i OK if I ain't trying to break shit" bullshit.
Every hacker that has every been arrested has always claimed that he was only curious and looking around. Let me tell you something, if you walk into my front door, locked or not, that is still trespass, I don't care if you just wanted to get a look at my collection of potato chips resembling presidents.
This isn't a witch hunt. If you even use a phrase like "I broke in", then you know what side of the law that you are on. These guys are just angry because they know they are criminals, they got caught, and now they are facing the full force of the law. When are all of the Mitnick humpers going to get a clue and maybe not do things tha are illegal?
Great to see the UK judiciary bending-over for a foreign power. Maybe there's a some sort of medal in it for you too?
McKinnon committed a crime here too and, as a UK citizen, he should be tried here. Of course, the USUK 'special relationship' is the most important factor here so the extradition order was signed without so much as a second glance.
"Britons never shall be slaves?"
Not in this day and age.
I can't wait to see his American lawyer claim that he didn't understand what he was doing -- how was he to know that the defense computers were actually defence computers? How could he realize that his behavior was bad behaviour? After that, you can only hope that the court will table the claims...
Bit of a worry really. McKinnon is a British subject, found guilty of a crime against nationals of a foreign country. Why is he being extradited rather than sentenced and imprisoned in the UK?
Another case is Richard Read - the "shoe bomber" from a few years back. He was a British subject (admittedly they didn't want him) and is held prisoner somewhere in the US (or you-know-where in Cuba).
Does holding a passport, or nationality mean nothing? No matter what your nationality when you do a crime against the US, they get to do what they want with you.
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
Spare me the "hacking i OK if I ain't trying to break shit" bullshit.
This is about someone being condemned unfairly to set a public example. Sort of what the RIAA does with "OMG the evil pirate filesharers!".
Because if you STILL believe there's justice in the USA, you might as well believe in spaceships from another planet. The USA should be treated like a dictatorship where human rights CONTINUE to be abused systematically.
Want an example? The NSA spying on the citizens. Curiously, it could be ALSO interpreted as "hacking" AT&T users. Are the guys who ordered wiretapping in jail? No, they aren't.
Justice, yeah right.
When a cop, dressed like a hooker, comes up to you and says, "Two hundred for the night", and you try to haggle, that is entrapment.
Do you see the critical difference?
Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
The damage is probably pretty accurate. It might seem to you that if nothing were changed, then no harm done. I'd urge you to make that your corporate policy when any sort of break in, be it physical or electronic occurs. The fact is that any breach needs to be investigated, and every system auditted to ensure that nothing was put in place. I'd imagine that some systems were restored from a backup. All of that costs man power, down time, and lost data.
Only it's not a very grave crime, is it? I like the potato chip analogy - he did look at military potato chips, though, which most people would know is considered more naughty by most countries. I hope his counsel is good and makes sure the sentence fits the crime. I don't like it when somebody hacks my computer, it makes me angry. I'd want to be able to tell them how angry I was. I hope the judge stops there, and marks McKinnon's card, maybe wastes some of McKinnon's time and money. I think a custodial sentence would be harsh, but then, he didn't break my rules. And like others have pointed out here, you have to play by the local rules. I get the impression the USA isn't the worst place to be extradited to. At least they're doing it in public this time!
It's going to hurt a bit Gary, but you have been a naughty boy.
There is an argumenent in the UK at the moment about deporting and extraditing people to nations who have poor human rights records. I think a nation who imprisons people without trial and without legal representation is a perfect example. Step forward the land of the (mostly) free.
Not quite.
The point missed by many of the posters in this thread is that the UK has a stupidly unfair extradition treaty with the US, allowing the US to gain the extradition of a suspect using no evidence of the suspect's involvment in the case. Ostensibly, the treaty was an anti-terrorist measure. We now see it being used against suspected hackers and in bank fraud cases.
And in case you were wondering, the US Congress has (sensibly) not ratified the treaty, meaning no reciprocal arrangement exists for UK suspects to be brought over from the US without evidence.
If you live in his constituency (Airdrie and Shotts.), you can try Here [theyworkforyou.com].
Otherwise, find your MP on theyworkforyou.com, and write to them, explaining why you think it was the wrong decision, how it affects you, enlighten them on some of the technical issues if necessary, and request that they ask a question of John Reid or Blair in Parliament.
Writing direct to someone else's MP (even if they are the Home Secretary) is rarely succesful. Get your own elected representative to do teh talking for you.