Opera Seeks Developer Input For Opera 10

taskforce writes "Opera Watch is reporting that the folks Opera Software are asking web developers for input on what they think the most important features are which could be added into the next version of the Opera desktop browser. Considering what has been added in Opera 9, what do you think would be most important for the browser from both a developer and a user standpoint?"

Comments

Extensions

[slack_prad]

API for extensions !

Re:Extensions

[Bogtha]

Compared to what? http://www.howtocreate.co.uk/browserSpeed.html

It's worth pointing out that the person publishing those benchmarks is an Opera employee. Not that I think they are fabricated, but it's always good to know potential biases.

Re:Extensions

[jgrana]

What can be done in Opera with extensions that can't be done with widgets, its own internal ad-blocking system, and UserJS, which supports most Greasemonkey scripts? I'm just thinking of the extensions I was using before switching to Opera full-time from FF. ForecastFox is covered by a widget in 9, AdBlock's replaced by the ad-blocker, and I've gotten the GM scripts I'd been using running with very little trouble.

Re:Extensions

[Wildclaw]

This should be possible with the current opera. I'll describe how to add a shortcut key that launches the current webpage in internet explorer. If you want to add it to a gui element (like the right click menu) you will probably have to edit an ini file. Anyway, here is how to add it as a keyboard shortcut, step by step.

* Goto Tools->Preferences->Advanced->Shortcuts.
* (Optional) Duplicate the current keyboard setup using the duplicate button.
* Edit the keyboard setup you want to change.
* Select the "application" entry in the list that appears and click the "New" Button
* Enter the keyboard shortcut to the left. For example: i ctrl shift alt
* To the right enter the following: Execute program, "iexplore.exe", "%u"

Now, whenever you click ctrl+shift+alt+i, internet explorer should launch using the current url as an argument.

64bit support

[Jack Malmostoso]

Probably it's not the answer to the question, but I'd love to see a native 64 bit version of Opera. As for the argument "there's no 64bit flash", screw adobe/macromedia/$proprietary_technology_owner. The web is a nice place also without Flash. Maybe even better!

Niggling

[rinkjustice]

Give users more monitor real estate (less toolbar, more web page) and reinvent favorites/bookmarks. Say automatic online backups to Simpy.com and an easier way of keeping bookmark catagories organized. I've recently gotten into genealogy and the links pile-up in a hurry. I almost want to use a browser exclusively for that research alone.

The Linux support is awesome however. It's the best browser for that platform.

Re:Niggling

[Rameriez]

MORE real estate? One of the reasons why I love Opera is its interface is one of the most easily configurable. Not only do you have a lot of control over what toolbars are displayed and where, but exactly which buttons appear on them. The side-panel is much nicer than Firefox's in my opinion, and is another great space saver. What more could you want?

Re:Niggling

[RobbieGee]

I have a few tips for you.

1. Put the status bar next to the address bar.
2. Use search shortcuts instead of the search bar. Typing 'g something' in the address bar will search for 'something' on google, while 'z something' will do the same for Amazon.
3. The progress bar can be toggled to show only when something is loaded, and you can even make it appear inside the address bar.
4. Instead of showing the tabs, you could use the window panel. You need to enable it by customizing the panels.
5. Ctrl-F8 will toggle the address bar, also while in Full-screen.
6. Alt+F11 will toggle the main menu.
7. Ctrl+F7 will toggle the scrollbars.
8. For quicker switching between tabs in fullscreen mode, I recommend holding right mouse button while scrolling. Personally, I prefer to set that list to use the tab-bar order instead of which were last used, you can find that setting in Tools->Preferences->Advanced->Tabs then "Cycle in tab bar order".

These are just things off the top of my head though, so if you *really* wanted to go nuts you could probably get away with a lot more.

From a developper point of vue

[yogikoudou]

- More CSS 3 - A Javascript Debugger (including XMLHttpRequest debugging, as with the Firebug extension) - XForms - XUL ? And from a user point of vue: - Extensions

Re:From a developper point of vue

[Jicksta]

I'd have to second the request for XUL support. With Microsoft producing its XUL clone XAML for use with Vista software, it's only a question of when, not if these technologies take off. Is this an area out of which Opera truly wishes to stay?

The parent's request for better AJAX debugging is another possibility certain to turn a number of web-dev heads. Few doubt AJAX's destiny. I for one would love to see this.

Additionally, I'd also like to request an option to specify how the middle-button responds to clicks for scrolling. Presently, and for prior versions, pressing the middle button to begin the hands-free scrolling feature snaps the cursor to the middle of the page. This becomes an issue when trying to open a page in a background tab with a middle click and, if the click is off by a little, the cursor shoots away, causing the user to move their cursor back to the link. A minor nuisance but one I've heard complained about for years.

Still no Opera topic in Slashdot

[Hank Powers]

It's time for you to stop dissing Opera. There are applications that get news coverage really seldom and even they have their own topics in Slashdot. Opera gets mentioned every once in a while and always gets placed under the general software topic. Do I smell an anti-Opera Software bias among the editors?

Adblock

[Umbral Blot]

Adblock, adblock, adblock. I know you can do something like adblock with Opera, but it doesn't even compare with firefox's version. That's the reason that I still use firefox even though it isn't as small or as fast as Opera; I want my adblock.

Re:Adblock

[LubosD]

Opera 9 has integrated content blocking - it is quite good. You don't have to edit filter.ini any more...

Re:Adblock

[Anonymous Coward]

I know you can do something like adblock with Opera, but it doesn't even compare with firefox's version.

What's missing? Right-click on the page, select "Block content", and the page gets greyed out, with the blockable items highlighted. Click on everything you want to block, and it automatically sets up wildcard rules to block those ads. That's easier than Firefox's Adblock.

Re:Adblock

[Jugalator]

Bah, how about not forcing Opera to keep up to date with specific extensions found in Firefox...

Firefox actually has a worse adblock implementation then Opera, did you know that?

The root of the problem as I see it is not a poor integrated adblock functionality -- I'm sure Opera 9's new interactive and visual adblocking mechanisms are sufficient for most people -- the problem is more likely deep extension support for power users to extend functionality as they want and need.

While Opera ASA is doing an admirable job of keeping up to date with the competition as a company, my number one wish for Opera 10 is good extension support.

And no, Opera's aging Netscape plugin support is lacking in so many areas, like chrome and renderer extensibility, that I won't even discuss it.

Re:Adblock

[Rits]

Do you have to do this for every new ad you see? Or does Opera automagically create regexes for permanent blocking of similar ads by using your method?

No regexes, but a simple matching expression using * is automatically created. You can also block specific images only by holding Shift while clicking. It is quite intuitive, with a simple UI with only a few buttons and a short explanation text.

Re:Adblock

[trifish]

As I expected, the list blocks Google ads. If everyone downloaded this list and used AdBlock, Google would die. In case you did not know it, 99.99% of Google's income is from Google ads, based on their public reports for share holders, etc.

Blocking obtrusive ads is justified. Blocking any other ads is not. Did you ever stop to think who's going to pay the bandwidth costs of sites that depend on income from ads? The more popular a site is, the more incredible bandwidth fees they pay (popular sites can't use free hosting, mainly due to their bandwidth needs, etc). Without ads, sites like SourceForge.net or Slashdot.com would have to charge everyone for reading or die too. Think twice before blocking unobtrusive ads. Mass selfishness could bring many popular free sites to an end.

Re:Adblock

[Geminii]

I have an idea. Every time I block an ad, it can pop up on trifish's PC. That way it's not deleted, and the people who think ads are a great idea can be the ones seeing them. Everyone wins!

Integration.

[Anonymous Coward]

Human Interface Guidelines, native widgets, integration with the host OS. Opera is completely unusable because it refuses to behave like all other applications, be it in Gnome or Windows. It doesn't matter if that way might be better, because the problem is switching between paradigms.

Re:Integration.

[laffer1]

Your one person. He meant everyone. Without following HCI guidelines, it makes it difficult for someone new to start using the program. Let me give you an example. I used to work on a coworkers computer in my spare time for a little extra money. She only liked Mozilla (and later firefox). Her husband only liked Opera 6. (literally one version) He would not switch off opera or let me upgrade it. He complained that anything other than the browser he knew was too hard. His wife just thought it was a piece of crap like IE. She was able to use IE, Netscape 4, Mozilla 1.x and Firefox without me telling her much. She just needed to know how to organize bookmarks and change her homepage. She could not use opera, but every other browser was ok. Why is that? Could it be the odd layout in opera? Yes. Now I realize that is the charm of opera for some, but the masses hate it. Its similar to Mac OS X that way. Its different enough that some fear or hate it. This could be applied to anything thats different like gnome, kde, etc. People are used to certain widgets in certain places with a certain look and feel. Unlike the web, conventional user interfaces must follow strict guidelines. (games are the exception to some degree) Even on the web there are certain conventions like RSS icons for instance.

Tools for standards compliance (for developers).

[expro]

Browsers bend over backwards to be compatible with lots of pages, and by so doing promote worse behaviors.

The mess that passes for HTML is a direct result of the permissive approaches of browsers. It is understandable that browser vendors want to make the browser work on as many pages as possible, but it is a horrible tool to use in the hands of web developers because the bottom line is if it works, it is OK.

Browsers need modes that can be enabled for developers that raise exceptions when exercising behaviors that were inserted for compatability but which violate standards and/or are likely to break other browsers/versions. They need to do this to make it easy for developers to use the browser to test their web pages while not promoting worse-formed content. Whichever browser does this first, will be my choice of main browser to use when testing my web pages.

Opera gives you all the space you need! (scrensht)

[eddy]

> but even then it still usues way too much screen space for things other then the actual webpage.

WTF?! You do know that the sidebar "Panel" toggles on and off with F4, right? Requests ought to focus on stuff that isn't already in the browser and trivially available to users to configure, don't you think?

I'm sorry, but requesting more space for the web page is sort of insane, considering there's always full screen mode (F11). The difference between full screen and my current configuration is neglible. Here's a current full screen screenshot (~44KiB) of my setup. Explain what you want to disable and how that makes a real difference to your browsing experience.

Personally I'd like a special tab which would include all client-server exchanges, toggable to exclude content body/show as hexa, etc.

Only one thing needed

[eebra82]

I think Opera is a great browser (although I personally prefer Firefox because of all the plugins), but it is also the most feature-packed browser. That's a good thing, but too much is crammed into into this thing. Most people use only the most fundamental basics of a browser. What I would like to see is an ultra lite version of Opera with all the nifty features removed, or at least scalability in the full version.

Internet Explorer is great because it allows the user to remove stupid buttons, move around the menus and so forth, making the browser only one length thick on top. That's great if you want more space for viewing web sites and such. I personally prefer compact applications. When I look at Opera, I don't see that. I see a lot of cool stuff but I don't really need most of it and would prefer to add these nifty things once that I need them.

Re:The Opera company is mismanaged in three ways:

[hkmwbz]

There's a good test available at present, and the experiment is being performed all over the world. People can have both Firefox and Opera free, and they choose Firefox. They choose Firefox even though Firefox is the still the most unstable program in common use.

I'm sorry to have to say this, but your post is misinformed and your arguments are illogical or simply wrong.

Firefox's success has to do with marketing, plain and simple. Firefox had a major marketing push, as a completely free browser. Opera could obviously never reach as many users as Firefox since it was adware/payware.

Opera's mistake is not the UI at all. Rather, it is the failure to do a major marketing push when everyone was looking at an alternative to IE, and while Firefox wasn't finished yet. Firefox came almost exactly at the right time: While everyone was focusing on IE's shortcomings, especially regarding security.

In both browsers, if I enter "vmware", for example, I see a drop down list of all the pages I have viewed recently at www.vmware.com. But in Opera, I must choose one of those pages with the mouse.

Not at all. Simply press the down key on the keyboard. So, wrong.

Opera shows how mis-management can reduce the profit of a software company.

Huh? Opera is making more money than ever! Most of Opera's income has come from mobile phones and devices for several years now anyway. So, wrong.

Opera cost $30 previously. That's an amount I would easily pay, if there were advantages instead of disadvantages in the user interface. I spend a lot of time with a browser, and $30 would be a tiny amount of money per hour.

It was $39, and you are just one single person. Most people do not want to pay for a browser.

The Opera company is mismanaged in three ways, in my opinion: First, Opera failed to recognize that the user interface design of a successful product is a huge intellectual challenge, and that, when competing products work fairly well, the user interface determines which will be most popular.

This is vague nonsense. I've already demonstrated that you are wrong about why Firefox is more popular than Opera, and shown that you are not representative of most users.

Second, Opera, like all software companies of which I am aware, thinks of product support as a very low-level job, and assigns it to people with a teenage sense of responsibility.

Wrong, and also irrelevant. Firefox doesn't even have any tech support (unless you pay $50 or so per incident), and yet it's more popular than Opera. So, you are contradicting yourself.

For example, someone who seemed that she was only working until she could find a man to marry and have babies answered my suggestion about tab-key autocompletion with nonsense.

Well, I've shown how you are the one talking nonsense :)

Third, Opera, like most software companies, has poor marketing.

Yes, Opera has poor marketing.

Good marketing requires someone who is very skilled at communication and who is also willing to understand how to structure product support so that it is both efficient and useful in guiding the development of the product. At Opera apparently there has always been a lack of understanding of communication, and a lack of connection of the communication with the technical details of the product. There have been many subtle and not-so-subtle mistakes.

This is yet more vague and irrelevant nonsense.

There are other unfortunate choices. Opera's excellent ability to save the current browsing session is ruined by the fact that the session files are now buried deeply in the Opera folder structure, and cannot be saved elsewhere. That's a mistake that is recent; with version 6 session files could be saved anywhere.

And this is completely irrelevant to just about everyone else. The old way to save sessions sucked. Thew new way is far better UI because it doesn't confuse the heck out of the user. It's Firefox UI design in Opera!