Intel Launching 'Merom' Notebook Processor

Hans Pecheston writes "Merom, Intel's notebook processor, will be joining in the festivities at their upcoming launch event. This chip will continue to use the Core 2 Duo brand and should display additional improvements in performance and power consumption over the current chips. Intel has already begun to ship Merom processors to its PC customers and systems with Merom should begin to appear around the end of August."

Comments

And in the first week of August...

[Jerk City Troll]

They will be announced in a new line-up of MacBook Pros.

Re:And in the first week of August...

[thermopile]

This will open up at least two new ways to win in John Siracusa's bingo...

Re:And in the first week of August...

[TomHandy]

I don't get it, do you not like Macs, or do you not like the Core Duo (and Core 2 Duo) processors? Also, how overpriced do you really feel the Intel Macs are? At least from what I've seen, the pricing difference between the MB and MBP and comparably eqipped PC laptops aren't really so far off.

Re:And in the first week of August...

[TheRaven64]

It seems unlikely that the Macbook and Mini will keep Cores while the Pros get Core 2s, since Intel is going to be phasing out the Core in favour of the Core 2 relatively quickly.

Re:And in the first week of August...

[Moby Cock]

Really? Do you have a reference? I heard that the Yonahs were here to stay as the 'low end' or 'consumer' option.

Re:And in the first week of August...

[SpecTheIntro]

At least from what I've seen, the pricing difference between the MB and MBP and comparably eqipped PC laptops aren't really so far off.

That's not true at all. Here goes:

MacBook Pro 15-inch Glossy Widescreen Display
1024MB 667 DDR2 - 2 SO-DIMM
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
2.0GHz Intel Core Duo
AirPort Extreme Card & Bluetooth
80GB Serial ATA drive @ 5400 rpm
Price: $2099.99

AppleCare Protection Plan for MacBook Pro/PowerBook (w/or w/o Display) - Auto-enroll
Price: $349.99

Total: $2497.95

Inspiron E1505
Intel® Core(TM) Duo Proc T2500 (2GHz/667MHz/2 X 1MB L2 Cache)
Genuine Windows® XP Home
15.4 inch UltraSharp(TM) Wide Screen SXGA+ Display with TrueLife(TM)
FREE 1GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm
256MB NVIDIA® GeForce(TM)Go 7300 TurboCache
80GB 5400rpm SATA Hard Drive
Integrated 10/100 Network Card and Modem
8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability
Integrated Audio
Intel PRO/Wireless 3945 Internal Wireless and Bluetooth
85 WHr 9-cell Lithium Ion Primary Battery
3Yr Ltd Warr,At-Home Service,and HW Warr Support plus Nights and Weekends
Free SKIN Promotion 15 - Free Promotion for 15 inch Skin

Price: $1,766.00 (before 30% off coupon, which is practically always available.)
Price after coupon: $1,236.20

There are a few things the Macbook Pro has that the Dell does not. For one, the Macbook is lighter, thinner, and more aesthetically pleasing, which is no small thing. It also has a much more robust software suite--OSX is clearly a more complete OS than XP, and the pre-installed software package on an Apple computer adds value as well. In contrast, the Dell supports higher resolution, a more powerful video card, and a higher battery life.

With all of that said, do you really think one Macbook Pro is worth two Dell E1505s?

Re:And in the first week of August...

[SpecTheIntro]

It also bears mentioning that I tried to make them as equivalent as possible in this scenario. I could have easily stuck another $200 worth of upgrades into the machine (XP Pro, bigger HDD, more RAM), and then used a $750 off of $2000 to get to the same price. In that case the Dell would be a clearly superior (from a hardware standpoint) machine.

Re:And in the first week of August...

[10Ghz]

I believe that Inspiron is more or less consumer-laptop. If you want to compare a Dell-laptop, you should be using Precision or Latitude-laptops. Here's such a comparison:

Dell Latitude D820 with following upgrades:

2Ghz Core Duo
1GB RAM
256MB Intel Quadro NVS
80GB HD
DVD+/-RW
Bluetooth

Total price: $1823

MacBook Pro with 1GB of RAM costs $2099. So it's about $270 more expensive. For that money you get all-aluminium construction (as opposed to plastic), backlit-keyboard, OS X, A LOT nicer overall design (everyone lusts after MacBooks Pro's/PowerBooks, no-one lusts after a Dell), slot-loading optical drive. MBP also has optical audio in and out and FireWire, I don't know about the Dell.

I honestly don't think that the Apple is THAT expensive.

Re:And in the first week of August...

[frankie]

Surely joking. That comparison is way off.

• MBP has 667 RAM, Dell has 533
• MBP has Pro OS, Dell has Home
• MBP has Gig-E, Dell has 100bT
• MBP has powered Firewire, Dell has mini iLink
• MBP has DVI, Dell has VGA
• Nvidia 7300 (TurboCache? Sheesh!) is a match for ATI X1300, not X1600
• Dell has two advantages: 2L DVD, and a modem
• Dell lacks the following: internal camera, internal microphone, digital audio in/out, MagSafe cable & backlight
• Dell weighs a pound more

BZZT! Thank you for playing.

Re:And in the first week of August...

[SpecTheIntro]

The reason Latitudes cost more is for two reasons--business-class support (which Apple DOES NOT provide for their Macbooks, and it's ridiculous to claim that they do) and modular interoperability. Latitudes are the only officially supported "upgradeable" notebooks from Dell: the D-line uses all of the same interfaces for their optical drives. Until the Dx20s, there was very little functional difference between Inspirons and Latitudes. But all Latitudes come with standard 3 year warranties, a business-class support team (that is not based in India), and guaranteed part-interoperability. They're a different class of machine altogether, and certainly should not be compared to Macbook Pros unless you can show me that Apple provides the same level of corporate support.

As far as build quality goes, nowadays there is a slight difference in quality between an Inspiron and a Latitude--and it's mostly just the chassis. But the components they use are functionally the same.

Re:And in the first week of August...

[frankie]

show me a home user

The MacBook *Pro* is not for home users, it's a *Pro* laptop. Gig-E, Firewire, DVI, weight, etc, all matter in that environment. Basically you should redo the entire comparison with a more appropriate base model. For example, an E1505 with stock GMA950 IGP vs the MacBook Amateur. Or the MacBook Pro vs an actual pro-level Dell.

Inquirer

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting notes in Inquirer.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=23 055

The unlimited RAM option looks like an interesting feature

Wait until Thursday for the details!

[mgblst]

Thursday... Intel plans to announce details about the branding strategy and systems that will appear with Merom processors
 
So no actual details, so don't bother reading the article. This is not worth an article!

Meromonics

[digitaldc]

I guess the 'Moron' processor name was already taken

Re:Meromonics

[digitaldc]

Every time I hear "Celeron" I think celery, thats about as boring as it can get!

That's exactly what everyone I know calls them.
Even adding the ubiquitous 'X' to form 'XCeleron' would have been better ;)

Re:Meromonics

[Durandal64]

Since it's one processor with multiple cores, "Mormon" would be an appropriate code name. ;)

Re:Meromonics

[houghi]

I thought it was talking about the (note)book of Mormons.

Re:Meromonics

[metushelach]

Meron is the name of the highest mountain in the Galilee in Israel, which is the area of Israel where Haifa is located, which is where the Intel R&D center that created this processor is located. Clear enough, or should I draw a flow-chart?

Re:Meromonics

[PHPfanboy]

Just to clarify further:

Meron is the mountain. Merom (with an M or mem) just means "Upper" as in Upper Galilee (Merom HaGalil). Very nice area in any case (though best to wait until our Lebanese friends have got bored with their fireworks display).

Banias is a freshwater spring/ glade on the Golan Heights and site of an old greek temple . Well worth a hike in summer, though best to time it with a ceasefire.

Yonah is the Hebrew version of Jonah (in Greek which was the first transliteration from the vernacular Hebrew, J is a Y sound), it's not a place (or a plaice ;))

Dothan was a town in Northern Canaan/Judea/Palestine/Israel in biblical times. IIRC it's where Joseph's brothers go off to before they feign his murder and sell him (in the Old Testament).

Re:Use on an ITX board?

[cnettel]

Probably, as the current Meroms are close to compatible with Yonah, for which you can already buy ITX equipment. A new socket ("socket P"), FSB frequency and so on is coming in January.

Re:iMac

[agentmouthwash]

not necessarily. The Macbook pro is their pro laptop. They're going to try to make that on par with the Pro Mac as much as possible. Plus Apple is selling more laptops then ever now. I can see them both updated at the same time, but if the Core 2 Duo is in limited supply, it will go in the Macbook Pro.

Re:iMac

[TheRaven64]

Last year, Apple's laptop sales passed their desktop sales. This year, they are projected to do so by an even larger margin. How, exactly, is a desktop their 'flagship' product?

What about retail Merom CPU?

[nxtw]

My laptop came with a Core Duo (Yonah) T2300. The CPU is a little weak at times, so I'd like to upgrade to Merom when available. (The requisite BIOS update has been available for a few months now.) Does anyone know when I'll be able to buy one from a reseller such as Newegg?

Re:iMac

[samkass]

I very much doubt they will upgrade the macBookPro (as some suggest) befor they update the iMac, that remains their flagship product.

From last week's quarterly conference call:

"Apple sold 529,000 desktops during the quarter and 798,000 notebooks."

Why this is Apple-relevant

[jht]

Traditionally, Intel chip announcements are "no-big-deal", but this is the first one of any significance in the Apple Era since the original iMac/MacBook Pro announcement in January. Traditionally, IBM and Motorola/Freescale only announced a G3/G4/G5 processor whenever Apple was ready to introduce a new model using it - since Apple was the largest PPC system maker, they had some clout in that area.

In the Intel world, Intel announces a chip family and that day the big Wintel vendors are already showing off their prototypes of "about-to-ship computers using it. Apple can't be as close to the vest as they traditionally have been regarding their plans anymore - for instance, it's a no-brainer that they'll speedbump their systems anytime Intel ships speedbumped versions of the same chip. Also, the announcement of a Mac Pro is now seen as inevitable at WWDC, since the chips to power it are officially on the market. Unlike years past, the speculation is focused this year on the little details - Xeon or Core 2 Duo? Completely redesigned case or minor refresh? The fact of the machine itself is more of a done deal.

Because this is the first WWDC in the post-Intel era, it'll be interesting to see what the buying trend is - for instance, I have one client who is holding off the two weeks until WWDC before buying either a G5 tower or Xserve - based on the system configs in play, that's about $40k in deferred revenue (on the other hand, another one just bought a G5 Quad). Part of the reason that Apple used to be so tight-lipped about announcements was to avoid these deferred purchases, so it'll be interesting to see what happens now.

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about OS X and Cell - although it does sound insanely cool.

There have been multiple interviews with IBM about their decision to drop Apple as a customer. The main one was with the main PPC exec responsible for dealing with Apple. Although IBM appears to have taken the high road and let Jobs spin things in public. I don't think IBM really cares about the less than 4 percent of their chip business that Apple represented.

There was another informal interview with one of the mid-level IBM PPC guy who gave a laundry list of stupid things Apple did to IBM with chip orders. It sounded like it was a nightmare to work with Apple and IBM had a 'good riddance' attitude after the decision was made a couple years ago to drop them.

There were article earlier this year that talked about Apple going to PASemi after IBM dropped them looking to bail Apple out, but I guess PA wasn't going to be ready in time. Although looking back over the past year and the Intel mess and Apple begging them to move their chips plans forward, PA would have been much better move for Apple.

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant

[jht]

I feel like I'm troll-feeding here, but unless your workflow is CS2-based, odds are your productivity app of choice is universal already. And if it is, you'll get a big performance boost from a Intel Mac vs. the same Mac's PPC-based predecessor. Why wouldn't a quad-Xeon Mac Pro be likely to blow the doors off a G5 quad, or at least be competitive/faster?

Besides that, since you generally don't pay a huge speed penalty in running apps through Rosetta (depends on the app, of course), if you need a newer Mac, why not buy the technology that's going to be shipped/supported far longer down the road, suck it up a little for now and use Rosetta, and get a big improvement when the universal upgrade ships? I really don't see that as enough of an deterrent to convince a diehard Mac user to change to Windows. With rare exceptions, Mac people are Mac people, period. The only thing that would get them to Windows is either force or no more Apple. And if I actually thought they'd be better served by generic x86 hardware and Windows, and I pushed them that way, the easiest thing my clients would do is probably find someone else who wouldn't push Windows on them.

Look, I don't hate Windows. And I've built most of my own x86 boxes over the years. I even own six Dells, including my home gaming PC and what's in my office. But c'mon - to really assert that there's no reason to buy an Intel-based Mac because G5 quads are faster with pre-universal software is silly. And to call anyone spending $40k on Intel Macs an idiot - that's just a troll, and a bad one at that.

And on a related note, I see no problem with delaying a non-time critical Xserve purchase to see what will replace it in Intel equivalent products. I've told the client that unless the Intel-based Xserve turns out to have a compelling feature (like onboard video freeing up both PCI slots, or on-board RAID for the built-in drive bays), to stick with the PPC version during the transition period that's likely to occur (there's usually an interval of a couple of weeks when you can order both models).

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant

[asuffield]

Traditionally, IBM and Motorola/Freescale only announced a G3/G4/G5 processor whenever Apple was ready to introduce a new model using it - since Apple was the largest PPC system maker, they had some clout in that area.

Well, that's wrong somehow... I think you either meant to say "Apple was the largest G3/G4/G5 system maker" or "Apple was the largest user of the PPC in desktop computers". The largest PPC system maker would be hard to pin down, but my bet would be either one of the car or printer manufacturers. PPC is all about embedded systems, Apple's use of them was just convinient fallout.

Obviously IBM/Motorola only bothered to announce the G3/G4/G5 chips when Apple was ready to introduce a new model using them, because those are names for variations on existing PPC chip designs that were designed and produced on contract with Apple explicitly for their use. While they do refer to unique chips, they were all fairly minor variations (mostly just increased specs) on chips that the relevant maker had already created. The G5 is just a variation on IBM's established POWER4 line, for example. Apple chips have always been evolutionary, not revolutionary (even back in the 680x0 days).

The only thing that's changed here is that you happen to be reading the press in which Intel chip announcements are published, while I'm betting that you never heard about all the developments in PPC chips over the past 20 years or so, except for the ones published by Apple.

There's a big list of some of the stuff that uses PPC over here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powerpc#Implementatio ns. It's probably a toss-up between PPC and ARM as to which is the most common microprocessor architecture on the planet (this is notoriously difficult to estimate with any precision and there's the perennial question about whether or not you should count the PICs - but if you don't, most people will agree that it's one of those two, although they'll often argue about which). Apple has never been as important as their fanboys would like people to believe.

Re:Why this is Apple-relevant

[DrDitto]

since Apple was the largest PPC system maker
This is false. Apple's use of PPC was/is small compared to their use in embedded systems.

Merom has 64bit support

[pathological liar]

While I doubt anyone's going to have enough ram in a laptop to need 64bit pointers anytime soon, the extra general purpose registers will be nice.

Re:Merom has 64bit support

[TheRaven64]

I don't need 64-bit in a laptop. I do, however, fairly frequently need 33-bit or 34-bit pointers (virtual address space for mmap'd files). A 36-bit CPU would be enough, but a 64-bit CPU means you don't need to change the ISA every few years.

This is the same philosophy as ZFS; no one is ever likely to need a 128-bit filesystem. Without resorting to quantum storage, you would need a hard drive the size of a planet if you encoded one bit per atom. If you used electron states for storing data then you could maybe shave some of the size off, and reduce it to the size of a small moon. It is likely that within the next 5-10 years, however, that a lot of people will start needing a 65-bit filesystem.

Core Duo vs. Core 2 Duo

[everphilski]

Core 2 Duo ... how's that different from Core Duo? from gur3d.com
The key differences of the new architecture [Core 2 Duo] from the "ideologically closest" Intel Core Duo (Yonah) are as follows:
* Improved instruction decoder extended to 4 decoders of x86 macroops (vs. 3 of Intel Pentium M / Core Duo)
* 128-bit SIMD instruction performance of 1 instruction per clock in each execution unit (twice as faster as Yonah)
* Improved memory operation and hardware prefetch mechanisms
* L2 cache is dynamically shared by both cores depending on load (as seen in Intel Core Duo)
* Further improved energy saving
* A new SIMD instruction set SSE4.

I wonder..

[metushelach]

Considering their R&D center for this processor is in Haifa, is this what the Hizbollah are REALLY after? (Or rather - Can it be that the true culprit behind the latest clashing in the middle east is, actually, AMD?) One has to wonder..

Re:I wonder..

[metushelach]

Merom was developed in the R&D center of Intel in Haifa, Israel. Hizbollah is shooting rockets from Lebanon into all of northern Israel, but paying special attention to Haifa. So I was wondering, if AMD was the one who was paying Hizbollah, to attack the biggest R&D center Intel has outside the US. (and there goes my attempt to making this sound funny)

This is so cool..

[saboola]

I just ordered a Core Duo about 10 minutes ago, sweet! Glad to know its obsolete before it even hits my doorstep :)