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Air Marshals Place Innocents on Secret Watch List
An anonymous reader writes "The Denver Channel 7 News reports that federal air marshals are operating under a quota for reporting a minimum number of suspicious travelers which is resulting in innocent people being placed on a secret government watch list. From the article: 'These unknowing passengers who are doing nothing wrong are landing in a secret government document called a Surveillance Detection Report, or SDR.'"
It was posted anonymously...
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
Good thing I'm too broke to fly.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
The marshalls should just put everyone under the age of 5 on the "no fly" list. Marshall's meet their quota, and the flight is much more enjoyable for everyone else. Everybody wins.
</sarcasm>
Seriously, I can't think of a worse system than quotas to put investigators under. It just screams Civil-Rights-Violation-Waiting-To-Happen.
Just got my ass chewed out for being under quota. Gotta keep my eyes open. But look ,over there, by the window. That frail old lady kind of looks suspicious to me. Got kind of an evil look about her. And what's that in her hands? OMG - Holy crap - knitting needles!! Quick, take her down she might just be trying to knit....
(wait for it)
AN AFGHAN!
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
What would you expect? It's not as if we have a true justice system here in America. A criminal breaks into a home and causes $2,000 worth of damage and what do we do? Feed him and take car of him in a jail while the homeowner is left to clean up the mess and insurance money (paid by the homeowner) takes care of the losses. Or, more often than not, simply let the criminal go with a warning. Then we spend our money falsely accusing innocent people just to keep up a "quota". Greed then drives what we like to think of as justice. It happens more than you think: e.g. officer's needing quotas for traffic violations & arrests and so caring more about their quota than justice in a certain situation. I know, it's not all bad and there are cops and agents that really DO care about justice. It's just the system that is messed up...
Homeland Security: Our budget is proportional to the number of terrorists we find. When there aren't enough terrorists, we make them.
Ayn Rand was an optimist.
"Innocent passengers are being entered into an international intelligence database as suspicious persons, acting in a suspicious manner on an aircraft ... and they did nothing wrong," said one federal air marshal.
2006.07.25 DenverChannel malsaid "unorthodox" as "suspicious". rectify.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
That is utter and complete bullshit.
I am on that list. I don't know why; I have never been arrested or convicted or tried or anything else. I served honorably in the US Army. I fly all the time.
About 18 months ago, I got on this watch list. It isn't so secret if you are a traveller. You can't use the fancy-shmancy self-service kiosks. You have to wait for a representative to help you. They have to make phone calls. The entire process takes an addiotional 10-15 minutes of not only my time, but the service representative, as well.
There was some poor Thai girl in Bangkok. It was her second day on the job, and she freaked out when my name came up as I was checking in. It took them about 20 minutes to make the call to the US and get stuff squared away.
No, I have not been arrested because of it. But, as an innocent person, why am I singled out for bureaucratic harrasement? I am denied the conveniences of other citizens simply because of my name existing on a watch list.
So, I call bullshit.
Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
I have a relatively common anglo name (like John Doe) which has found its way onto the air watch list. To try and take myself off of the list, I had sent stacks of documentation, my birth certificate, copies of my passport and volumes of other personal crap to the TSA with a request to clear my name. The TSA, after many months, sent back a one page form letter that said they had taken some "actions", but said that those actions may or may not be ignored by the airlines. Some airlines still will not let me check in without going thru the counter and a confirmation phone-call to somebody in the back room somewhere. I don't know if that watch list is the same as the SDR, but it's causing a lot of unnecessary and unwarranted grief.
I'm sure Bin-Hiding is laughing his ass off. He won.
A couple of thoughts. 1. Sadly various 'US no fly lists' are being used by airlines in countries that don't yet have their own list -- e.g. Canada -- in an attempt to reduce liability. Meaning, the implications of this article are greater than some might realize. 2. A key question about no-fly lists is the criteria used to put people on it. Ideally, it should be transparent so, for instance, everyone out there with a criminal record isn't concerned every time they get on a plane that law enforcement officials will descend upon them. Beyond the quota issue, this article points to a series of systemic problems relating to the criteria used to make these lists, which from my reading seem to be: a. arbitrary b. left to individual discretion c. without oversight or review checks and balances d. unappealable, regardless of how flimsy the evidence is. As more and more countries draft their own no-fly lists, such issues are likely to grow in importance and become bigger problems within the international (rather just American) political sphere.
This is your typical case of quantity being chosen instead of quality.
I think these guys are spending too much time looking for possible terrorists and not enough time on the real threats.
Like snakes.
What I'm really scared of is mothaf*cking snakes on mothaf*cking planes!
If this signature is witty enough, maybe somebody will like me.
the system is broken from the top down. the only solution is to format the goverment and reinstall. this image is corrupt.
-.no
Boy, I'm feeling more secure everyday...Not.
What if the Hokey Pokey really is what it's all about?
"I'd rather be safe than free."
This is the most concise interpretation of the Franklin quote I've seen to date. Seriously. Good job.
The unfortunate part is that a lot of people in this country really would rather be safe than free. Or to be more precise, they want to FEEL safe than be free. True safety will never occur. Period. Just when you think every risk has been mitigated something new will come along. Its just human nature. Hell, scratch that, its the universe. Whether it be an act of violence, terrorism, or an asteroid slamming into the Earth, bad things will always find a way. The only solution is to accept it, move on, and live life to the fullest.
In regards to terrorism, Americans simply need accept that despite our best efforts bad people will do bad things from time to time, and if anything bad does happen they'll be punished for it. Surrendering to our fears and trading liberty for security is the cowards way out. The last 5 years has been a dark time in our nation's history, but its time we change that and start embracing the liberties we still have left. Put your chin up and your best foot forward and lets show them they can't keep us down.
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
That's not surprising - we had a consultant on our project go back to India on a 3-week vacation, which got extended another 6 weeks because his name was on the "do not fly" list. It took him that long to get his identify clarified and his visa restored, along with monumental efforts on our end to work through Senatorial offices, etc. to try and clear through the red tape.
And in the end, our company's legal advisors said that 6 weeks should be considered a very quick turnaround under the circumstances...
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