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Investing Tips for College Students?
GenKreton asks: "I am a rising junior in college and decided to take out loans to cover all my costs so I could graduate with money in the bank. My tuition bill is minimal as I have a nearly full ride, but living is always expensive. With that said, I feel like my thousands sitting in the bank could be doing work for me instead of collecting dust till the day I graduate. I have been researching how I could best invest my money so I have immediate access to it if needed, but still do better than a mere savings account. There seems to be a lot of mixed advice and some obvious scams out there. So I ask Slashdot, what is the best plan for a college student to do with his money?"
The *first* thing I would encourage you to do is live frugally. You don't need a car for many places in the country you would go to college. You don't need the latest and greatest computers or TVs or goodies and the more money you can save now, the more it will help you out. It was tough while I was an undergrad, but everything I could was saved and invested in some stocks which over time have paid off.
For most folks, I'd have to say mutual funds or real estate right now although the stock market usually performs at about 10% or better depending....
Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
Don't ask slashdot. Or any other IT geeks.
Go ask a financial professional. There are tons that give free first time consultations.
There is no future - drink all the beer you can now!!
Why pay intrest when you dont have to and realize that you do not neet to buy all the toys now.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
You don't provide enough information about the kind of loans you have taken out. Do you really need to have "thousands in the bank" to live? Perhaps you could try to reduce your cost of living instead.
The biggest issue in my mind is that by taking out loans, you now owe interest. Depending on what kind of loans they are, the interest rates, and the repayment schedules, this may not be the best thing to do. In the long term, unless you're able to achieve a higher rate of return on any investment you find, you'll be losing money.
If you financial situation is stable, and you have some sort of fallback plan (i.e. family), or you can look forward to finding a good job when you graduate, the best thing to do may be to just pay off those loans right now.
I browse Slashdot at +3, Funny
You borrowed money to invest. Think about that for a minute.
Then you borrowed money to invest and you don't even know how to invest. Think about that for another minute.
Give the money back to the bank, pay your stupid tax, and go to DaveRamsey.com and get My Total Money Makeover and learn how to use money.
Or, continue to be financially brainless and wander around borrowing money for no good reason and wonder why you retire broke and bitch about Social Insecurity.
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
One concept I've heard of that I liked combines liquidity (access to money) with a high return. Say you've got $5000 you can put away. Divide it by five and put $1000 each into a 1-, 2-, 3-, 4- and 5-year Certificate of Deposit (CD). At the end of the first year, when the first CD matures, roll that into a 5-year CD. (The longer the time, the higher the interest rate is you earn, usually). Lather, rinse, repeat. Every year, 20% of your investment becomes available without penalty and you're earning a high rate of return on your money due to the longer term and interest rate averaging over the time period.
That, or find a financial advisor you can trust. A good one will value your relationship and look forward to making you money for many years. A bad one will want you to trade stuff in your account often (earning them high commissions) and leaving you in the poorhouse.
That, or invest in mutual funds that cover a lot of type of investments: some index funds, some international/European funds, a few bonds here and there. It's very easy to avoid scams and beat your savings account rate. Optimizing that is what is a bit trickier.
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
...there are some really amazing oppurtunities for investing in Africa. I just sent a cashier's check for $12000 to Prince Oolando Bothsqanta to pay the minimal fees needed to free up his vast fortune from Swiss banks. In return, I will earn approximately $4 million dollars in the course of the next 12 months.
I'll let you know how it turns out!
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To invest your student loan proceeds until you can use them.
No. The stock market performs around 10% on a rolling average of several decades...In the short term your returns can be anything from 300% to losing all of your money. Even a diversified fund in low risks stocks can lose you money rather quickly. For example a close friend currently has several hundred thousand dollars in a spread fund and last month was upto 22% return but this month is all the way down to 6% return on his rolling average. This is not the sort of worry a uni student really needs...Secure low risk returns are always good and I do agree with you about real estate - well chosen investments there always return good rewards.
I ate your fish.
Spend it on merry girls, hearty wittles, and fine wine.
Get rid of the savings account and do not invest: this way you can file 1040EZ instead of 1040 to the INS; as a college student this will save you money.
Start your own business and become a consultant. Claim beer etc. as a business expense.
Buy gold. That keeps going up, plus will keep its value when the Revolution comes.
Get a PhD in chemical engineering; you will be raking in 250k+/year if you are any good.
Become a Canadian citizen; with your IQ you will qualify for disability payments.
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
HELLO. MY NAME IS XABBU UGABE. I HAVE RECENTLY COME INTO POSSESSION OF A LARGE MONEYS LEFT TO ME BY LATE RELATIVE. I DO NOT KNOW FOR SURE HOW MUCH IT IS BUT I DO KNOW THAT IT IS A LOT PERHAPS 30 OR 40 MILLION. I AM IN NEED OF ASSISTANCE TO OBTAIN THIS MONEYS.
THE MONEY IS IN A BANK IN RUSSIA. UNFORTUNATELY, MY COUNTRY IS CURRENTLY FIGHTING WITH RUSSIA SO I CAN DO NO BUSINESS WITH THEM UNLESS I PUT SOME MONEY DOWN FIRST. I AM WRITING TO YOU HOPING YOU WILL HELP ME OUT. I NEED FOUR THOUSANDS DOLLARS TO PAY BEFORE I GET THE 30 OR 40 MILLION. I AM A HONORABLE MAN YOU HAVE MY WORD THAT I WILL PAY YOU BACK VERY HANDSOMELY. IN ABOUT A MONTH A LARGE CUT WILL BE WIRED TO YOUR PERSONAL ACCOUNT. PLEASE INCLUDE YOUR BANK ACCOUNT NUMBER SO I CAN DO THIS. PLEASE SEND MONEY AND INFORMATION RIGHT AWAY AS CONDITIONS IN OUR COUNTRY ARE WORSEN.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR KINDNESS IT WILL BE REPAID.
YOUR TRULY
XABBU UGABE
I've been a university student for ~11 years (bachelor's, master's, and finishing up my PhD). As university students, we tend to have little income and fairly regular (tuition) payments. (Although, scholarships and occasional co-op work terms/internships can produce "spikes" of surplus cash, and the question then becomes how to manage this influx optimally.)
Here's some brief advice based on my own experiences... I don't have the willpower to go into lengthy explanations for each point, so the first thing that I can recommend is that you start by doing some background reading. (Also, I'm skipping all of the mundane advice like "live frugally" because you've probably heard most of it before, and you want a non-bullshit answer.)
0) Pick up the "Intelligent Investor" by Graham, revised edition with commentary by Zweig. Then, read everything at: http://www.bylo.org./ When done, read everything at: http://www.ndir.com./ Once you have established this basis, you will probably understand & agree with my following comments more closely.
1) Pay off your debts first. Do not invest money while you still have debt -- paying off a 19.75% credit card balance will reap you more money than any average investment. Let me repeat that, because most people are retards and don't get this point. Do not put a cent of money into a mutual fund or stock until your debt level equals $0.00. Capiche?
2) Open an ING Direct savings account. It's free, it pays high interest, and it's secure. (I've been a customer with the Canadian version of ING Direct for more than 7 years.) Keep your spare cash there. This includes any money that you make on co-op work terms (or summer jobs, etc.).
3) Build up a sufficient supply of cash in your ING account -- enough to pay for the next 2-4 terms (or whatever you feel comfortable with). This is your "margin of safety" cash -- don't touch it. It's used in the event that you lose your job, crash your car, etc.
4) At this point, you have no debt, and you have reached your "margin of safety" amount. Once you have built up an additional $3k to $5k on top of your margin of safety, open up a discount brokerage account (e.g., E-Trade).
5) Now, start to build a "couch potato portfolio". Buy an S&P500 ETF (called a "SPY"der, in the States) from iUnits/iShares. (I recommend waiting until you have $3k to $5k to minimize the effect of brokerage commissions, as a percentage of the amount invested.)
6) Every subsequent $3k to $5k that you save is then used to build up a diversified portfolio of (a total of) 3 or 4 ETFs covering the S&P500, the NASDAQ, MSCI EAFE, and possibly a Japaense/European/Canadian index. Over time (as the evidence suggested at http://www.bylo.org/ would suggest), your low-cost ETF portfolio will outperform a vast majority of actively-managed mutual funds, and it requires relatively little maintenance on your part. This is exactly the kind of portfolio you want to build as a student -- you want an investment platform that you can put on "cruise control" while you focus on more important things (like studying, partying, getting a girlfriend/boyfriend, etc.).
By the time you're ready to move on to more advanced stock/bond investing, you will probably know that there are better forums for these kinds of questions, and you will go there. Good luck.
> First off, get over yourself. Brandishing about the fact [...] is load of self-important horseshit.
That's almost universal on Ask Slashdot articles. Most of the "questions" should be posted to Brag on Slashdot instead.
Fertile ground for parody, though:
"I've been sleeping with seven beautiful women for the past five years, but now some of them are hinting that they expect me to marry them. Are there any good IT jobs in Utah?"
"My IQ is so high that I have trouble comunicating my ideas to ordonary programmars. Is there an open source tool to help me?"
"I invented an incredibly programming tool, but my boss won't make everyone use it. Please tell him he's wrong."
etc...
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
> College is hard work
You're doing it wrong!
Go to all your classes, do all your assignments, get Bs.
That leaves lots of time for partying.
This loan money is money you're going to need to repay in a fairly short time, right? The stock market is volatile. When you need the money a year or two years from now, the stock market could be way up from where it is now. It could also be down--possibly by 25% or more. And that's just the market indices. If you invest in individual stocks, rather than index funds or other diversified mutual funds, your investment's value could fluctuate even more.
Better options:
Finally: have you thought about the ethics of using your student loans in this way? Were the loans given to you in order to help you pay for your expenses as a student? Do you think it's okay to ask someone to loan you money for one thing and then use that money for something else? Isn't that a form of lying?
This is probably the wrong place to be asking this question, and the advice being given on these boards are enough proof of that (e.g. "walk to your bank and invest in a mutual fund" - first banks don't administer mutual funds - they can't legally do so - and third, mutual funds are not risk-free investments).
First, you should buy a book on investing. Not some get rich quick book, but a real investing book. I have no suggestions here.
Second, what you seem to be looking for is a nearly 0 risk investment that yields better than a bad savings account. You should contemplate US treasury bonds.
Right now they yield around 5%. These bonds are typically considered "risk free" in that, as long as the U.S. government is around, they will print you dollars to pay you back. Of course, if there's lots of inflation that money they print for you will buy a lot less, but then again, you have the same exact problem with your savings account. You can do practically the same thing with a bank issued CD, but treasury bonds are fungible on the open market, unlike CDs. That means, if you have a 5 year note treasury bond, you can sell it on the open market before it matures, or you can wait for it to mature. With a CD you will pay a penalty (which will negate the benefit of having had it in a CD) if you try to cash out early.
Last I checked, you can buy the bonds in $1000 lots from the fed government. In short, you buy the bond for some amount less than the face value, (e.g. $950) and then in a defined amount of time (based on the maturity you select (3 month, 6 month, 2 year, 5 year, 30 year) it will pay you the face value ($1000). You should check out the Treasury website. This is extremely easy for US citizens, and I think it's still doable for those outside the US.
Either of these options though is substantially safer than investing in stocks, mutual funds, private bonds, etc. Of course, as always, you should be wary of what you read on a message board, and no investment is 100% safe, and that includes savings accounts. I'm not a professional and I could be wrong about anything I just said.
Most banks will offer you some fund with a huge sales load or marketing fees, because that's what pays the bills for the bank. They generally don't get the management fees (the managers of the fund do).
I.e., the banks will get you to pay them (indirectly) a commission, so you start out a few percent poorer than when you walked in the door, and they don't really care if the fund performs well or not, so who knows if you'll ever make that back or when. Or they'll sell you some stupid annuity with a multi-year lock-in. Either way, you'll almost certainly pay them some nice percentage for lousy advice.
This guy will need to pay back his loans (which, most probably, were only authorized for qualified educational expenses, in order to qualify for various governmental guarantees needed to get the interest rate for student loans, even in the absence of a good credit rating, but that's a whole other line of criticism) within six months or so after graduation, or at least will start racking up interest unless he keeps in school or makes some other sacrifice that persuades the goverment to keep paying the interest for him. At which point, any volatile investment has a good chance to be down when the loan payments start.
This guy should not have maxed out his student loan debt if he didn't need to. Using them to invest on margin, even if the interest for now is zero percent, is idiotic, except in something liquid and low-risk.
I also agree it's probably going to take another few years before stocks are a good investment - say, 2012-2015 - and we're going to need a major market dump before that happens. As one market analyst remarked some 30 years ago "You can't breathe in all the time; at some point, you have to exhale". It's just so with markets - the cycles the poster above referred to are the result of new technologies changing societies and markets, and then a sort of 'resting period' while they digest all those changes. The bull market from 1916-1929? Society was investing in cars, telephones, and radio. A bear market while that was digested. The bull market from 1949-1966? Television, jet travel, mainframe computing. Then a pause from 1966 to 1982 while they were digested. The bull market from 1982 to 2000? PC's, internet, cheap telecoms, broadband cable, etc., etc. We're still digesting those changes.
My guess is the next boom will be fueled by major advances in biotechnology, natural language speech recognition and synthesis, and, of course, pr0n and anally implanted RFID's.
What was once true, is no longer so
Ok, the parent was making a joke, but the satisfaction of human vices is almost always profitable. Check out Vice Fund, which according to its site has a three year return of 20.74%.
Give a man fire, and you warm him for the night. Set a man on fire, and you warm him for the rest of his life.
I found myself in much the same conundrum--overall, I needed to finance my education with loans, however I knew I would need to have a small contingency fund for when I graduated. Many people can't rely on just moving back home for a few months while they look for a job. Alot of students count on having that rainy day fund.
Basically, since you're dealing with a short term investment, you want to aim for stability, but since a student's financial situation is also topsy-turvy, you want flexibility too. With that you really have a limited set of options. Here are the four best, in order from lowest return to highest:
1) conventional savings account -- maximum flexibility, minimal return.
2) high-yield savings -- something like an ING Orange account, which places minimal limits on transactions, is FDIC-backed, and has a respectable interest rate compared to a regular savings account.
3) money market account -- not federally insured, but higher returns and most let you make a few withdrawals without penalty, so you can get at some of your money if you need it earlier than planned.
4) certificate of deposit -- returns at about the same level or slightly better than the money market option, but your money is locked in for the length of the CD, unless you want to pay a hefty penalty. This is your best option though if you know for sure that you won't need the money until a given time.
Realize that all four aren't exactly lucrative options... right now the max you'd probably get is between 4.5 to 7% interest on the latter two options. And the savings account option is barely an investment in terms of return... I get a paltry 0.55% on my savings, but hey, it's stable and I can get at my cash whenever I want.
I noticed alot of people were critical of trying to invest while taking out student loans. As long as you're not taking out the loans for purposes of investing them, there is nothing wrong with what you're doing. The federal financial aid process is designed to take into account your existing assets and projected earnings during the school year you are receiving a loan for. If you already have or earn funds that you would like to invest, there is really no restriction on this, so long as you can prove that the balance of your loans was applied to legitimate educational and living expenses as defined in the terms of your loan.
I also fail to see why some people consider the possibility of investing while taking out student loans to be illogical or unethical. It's financially prudent to at least retain a reasonable sum of reserve funds at all times, especially if you know you will need that money later, for when you can't rely on loans to help cover your expenses. It's really just a question of finding a reasonable balance between holding on to money now and saving yourself from later costs from interest on your loans.
To those who think it's unethical to retain funds in a sound investment while taking out taxpayer-backed loans, it's quite clear that these people don't understand the basics of how loans work. When you buy a house and get a federally-backed loan, they don't expect you to empty your entire checking and savings account, 401k, and kids' college fund before giving you the loan. That would obviously be counterproductive, as you'd simply manage to send the person careening into an instant bankruptcy. So why should you have to completely bankrupt yourself to pay for your education? Clearly anyone who makes such a criticism does not understand basics of how things like student loans, credit and mortgages work--and clearly you shouldn't listen to their advice!
And BTW, "federally backed" loans does not mean taxpayer funded for the most part. The system of loan guarantees is funded with seed money from the federal government--thus from the taxpayers--but once the money is placed in the system, it is recycled into new loans over and over again, and the default rate is sufficiently low so as not to trigger growth in the federal inputs into
So, first thing is to pay off credit-card debts. You don't get a deduction on the interest and it's hard to beat a sure 9%-21% return on your money. If you take care of your credit score, then you will be able to borrow the money back later when you need it.
Second, recognize that an investment's risk is proportional to its expected return. You can make just a little bit in a savings account (check out ING direct, which is paying around 5% right now), with no risk to your principal. Or, you may make a lot by speculating in stock options, but you stand an enormous risk that you'll lose everything. You can solve mucch of the risk problem by diversifying, but you cannot completely cure it. It's hard to diversify without a lot to invest.
Third, look at your time-horizon: how soon do you need the money? Over the long-haul, the stock market will out-perform "safer" investments. A broad-based stock mutual fund with minimal expenses will allow you to at least track the market. The Vanguard S&P 500 index is very low-cost and tracks the S&P 500.
Ignore advice about whether the market is in a "Bubble" or not -- if there was a general consensus that it was true, it would cease to be true because everybody would sell.
Fourth, DON'T, whatever you do, DON'T buy an insurance product like whole-term life insurance, universal life insurance or annuities. Insurance sales people take massive commissions straight out of your payments. And insurance companies, by law, are very limited in what they can invest in. As a result, you throw away a big chunk of money and then don't get a great return. If you need life insurance, buy a level term life policy from a financially sound company and invest the remainder. Doing that will give you the same insurance benefits, but a better return.
If you have the money I would say pay the tuition. Less debt you have the better off you are.
Check out Dave Ramsey www.daveramsey.com he has some great ideas about debt and never having them again. My wife and I started the plan this year and it is a great feeling to be paying down debt and getting rid of payments. Its amazing how much we are paying in interest that would could be using for something else.
His plan is pretty simple. Get on a written budget and STICK TO IT. You have X dollars comming in budget them ALL and dictiate where it goes. Use all cash! We put money in envelopes and when the cash is gone we are done with that catagory for the month. This usually takes up to 3 months to figure out what you are doing and to get it right.
Cut up the credit cards!
Save 1000 dollars in the bank for an emergency fund.
Start listing all your debts smallest to largest and pay off the smallest ones 1st. This helps with a mental good feeling of getting rid of payments. It worked for us! We feel great when we pay off another one. The car should be payed off in 2 months.
Don't go out to eat, don't go on vacations till you get the debt taken care of.
Once you are out of debt then you start saving for a house, retirement, etc. Check out his website he lists it all. We are very happy and hope to be out of debt within about 2 to 2.5 years INCLUDING all the stupid stuid loans... Then off to save for a house...