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Dealing w/ Unsatisfied Customers?

MoOsEb0y wonders: "At the company I work at, we have set up a series of SLAs giving a list of things they expect our products to do, that we promise we will deliver. In my particular situation, I have a customer who claims that the product we delivered them was slow and unresponsive. However, when we tested it to try and determine what was wrong, we didn't find anything wrong with it. How do you deal with a customer who is bent on assuming that you are incompetent, and that he or she could never have unreasonable expectations?"

112 comments

  1. Drop them by SoCalChris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Some customers just aren't worth having. It's a tough choice to make sometimes, but every now and then you've got to drop a customer.

    1. Re:Drop them by kingkade · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Right, just drop a customer? Word of mouth may get around depending on your business. Besides why would you preemptively drop the customer?? At least lose the customer trying to solve their complaint. Unless it costs you a ridiculous number of man hours or their complaint is about something that you said you cannot support, there's no point to dumping the guy. Even so, politely tell them it'll be in the next version or the real reasons you can not do what's needed.

    2. Re:Drop them by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is where my time working in residential treatment in a psych hospital has helped me a lot in running my own business. Reality doesn't matter: people's perception of reality does. In a case like the one described, the customer has decided that the company is inept, or that this one person is inept. He's sure of that. In my experience, both in business, which includes watching other business owners, and in treatment, is that when a person is constantly making claims that are verifiably false, there is no way that you'll convince them you can do a good job. You can replace the equipment with something that goes twice as fast and does twice as much for free. They *may* thank you, but will soon complain because there's something else the new equipment doesn't do. People like that are never happy, and the problem is NOT you, it's them.

      You can keep trying to help, which one should do for a while, but if they keep pushing, you're better off offering them a full refund and accepting a return, or just giving them a refund and letting them keep the equipment. Why? Because they're just never going to be happy. There's no point in busting your tail for good word of mouth with a bitter person who is never happy with anything. He'll probably keep telling you how great his last supplier was. Call his last supplier and talk with them and you'll find out that he treated them the same way.

      When you get a customer that bad, as Joshua said, "Strange game, Dr. Falken. The only way to win is not to play." Word of mount is great, but when you get a complainer, there is no way to win and the more time you spend on him, the more he'll expect. It's even worse if that kind of person got a good deal in the first place.

      I've had customers that, for one reason or another, got our service for a lower price, and if you have a complainer that manages that, they're even worse. They don't appreciate what they're getting because it's cheap to them, and they end up expecting a lot more than what you do for other clients. I don't know about you, but my life is too short to deal with such people. We fire those customers. As for word of mouth, most people know such a person for what he is: a whiner and complainer. Few listen to what they say. The few people that are their friends are probably like them and I'd rather my competition get them as clients. I'd rather they get frustrated employees or a loss in profit from someone like that than us getting that. If people don't appreciate our product and our pricing structure, then they're welcome to try the competition (which, in my case, is made up of bad programmers with no business or people skills, so I don't have too much to worry about).

    3. Re:Drop them by Billly+Gates · · Score: 4, Informative

      80/20 rule in bussiness. You spend 80% of the time on %20 of the problems or in this case annoying customers. Sometimes its best to let a competitor waste his resources on.

      I know that sounds very unAmerician in this customer is god concept if your American but its true.

      Just becarefull that you dont keep knocking off customers here and there until you wont have anymore. I have seen customers threaten former pc shops where I work with violence or come in and dude you are going to be soooo sorry bla bla. Not worth your time and could threaten the morale of yoru workers dealing with such jerks. A customer is not god and it only makes sense to serve them if its profitable.

    4. Re:Drop them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bill, from verizon? is that you?

    5. Re:Drop them by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree with you 100%. I've had to drop a few customers like that in my time.

      Heh, I'm reminded of a story that took place in the early 90s, when I was involved with a medical system start-up. Now, these systems were pretty pricey, and I was doing some technical pre-sales support out at this hospital site. Now, the tech guy there was a real arrogant a-hole. I had been taking a lot for a number of days.

      So we set up a demo system for him. Normally, our system used either X-terminals or Windows running eXceed (X-terminal emulation software). But this guy was a TOTAL IBM-a-holic. He worshiped at the alter of OS/2, and insisted we use OS/2 with IBM's X-terminal software. All right, we said, X is X, right?

      Wrong, unfortunately. IBM's X server sucked big time and had a lot of problems. So the guy is giving me these fishy looks in a big meeting with some of his other guys. I say something about the limitations of what I can fix when the X server has bugs, and then he crosses his arms, and says,

      "Well, whose problem *is* that?" (expecting me to roll over and admit the customer is always right, and promise to do what I can to fix it).

      But I'd had enough. My response, "Well, it's YOUR problem, since you specced OS/2."

      Dead silence. The guy's jaw dropped open, like no one had ever dared to speak to him like that. He huffed and puffed and blustered, and we moved onto a different subject. Later on, one of his guys took me aside and said, "I can't believe you said that to him."

      I responded that I didn't care. If it runs like crap in that hospital, then we're better off not selling it to them and poisoning the whole area. I think I even said that they didn't deserve to own the software, heh. :D

      Funny enough, the big boss and I got along much better after that. I think I earned his respect. He still insisted on OS/2, but he stopped blaming us.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    6. Re:Drop them by tacocat · · Score: 2, Informative

      Regardless of how you treat him, he's probably not going to be a very good word of mouth public relations element anyways. There's nothing wrong with dropping a customer if you do it in an agreeable manner. You need an exit strategy. This is an idea often ignored. But if you do a cost/benefit analysis you will find that there is a certain point where the customer goes from a profitable relationship into a liability and it is in your companies best interest to exit from the relationship.

      Even if they aren't going to be agreeable you still have a policy related to termination of contract or product refunds that will allow you a path to take. If it ends up in court then you can at least show that you adhered to the original contract by following the identified exit strategy.

      Do you really think you will ever sway this customers opinion? For how long? And at what final cost?

    7. Re:Drop them by Cloud+K · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Sometimes a customer wastes so many man-hours and returned items that they're just not worth the hassle - just politely point out your competitors (assuming you're the manager or otherwise have authority to do so) and suggest they go there. Sure they'll huff and puff and go "WELL! How rude!" but contrary to popular consumer opinion they don't have a god given right to even be in your shop, let alone have their feet kissed by the staff. Sure, it's one person who will probably give your place a bad name given the chance.... but as long as you have lots of happy customers, 1 noisy unhappy one won't make any difference. Nowhere has 100% happy customers with no complaints.

      And you get to hurt your competitor too - now they have waste time and money dealing with with the arrogant customer, and those types are generally never happy no matter where they go.

      Of course it does depend on the nature of your business - you wouldn't get rid of a customer if there's only one a year.

    8. Re:Drop them by oyenstikker · · Score: 0

      Often times one bad customer comes with a group of 299 good ones. You can't just drop one.

      --
      The masses are the crack whores of religion.
    9. Re:Drop them by numbski · · Score: 1

      Well, being a business owner, I ALMOST agree with the GP. Sometimes this isn't an option because of contracts or other outstanding agreements, but it seems like I attract customers that are never happy, no matter what you do for them. Example - I have a nameless client that I agreed to complete a project with 10 hours of labor with very specific terms. I have now sunk in 30 hours of labor, it's gone way out of scope, they refuse to pay overage, and the project still isn't done.

      Now what do you do? The project is at a halt, I can't in good conscience put more hours over there in, AND they expect us to support their entire network environment for free. It's just not going to happen. I'm very close to referring them to the competition and telling them to have a nice day. Now, word of mouth *would* hurt in this situation, but then again, which is worse? A little bad publicity, or the day to day headaches of dealing with someone like this? I'm not going to be as flippant about it as the GP, but sometimes, it's the only way to go...

      --

      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    10. Re:Drop them by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      it seems like I attract customers that are never happy, no matter what you do for them.

      If it's one or two people, they're a problem. If it's most of them, as your post seems to suggest, then you might want to rethink your line of business. Maybe you're just not very good at it?

      I'm reminded of the beginning of Hitchhiker's Guide - "Someone was terribly incompetant and he hoped it wasn't him."

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    11. Re:Drop them by numbski · · Score: 1

      Nah, it's not most of them. It's just that the one or two are the most vocal of the bunch and the ones I have to deal with the most as a result. Weeding out those "one or two" would go a long way towards making me a happier person. Too bad at least one of them is in a long term deal with my other partners, and alienating them would alienate my partners as well, so I have to endure. The other I'm in the process of moving to another provider as we speak.

      --

      Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).

    12. Re:Drop them by techno-vampire · · Score: 3, Interesting
      I worked for an ISP for a number of years, doing tech support. Of course we had our share of customers who'd complain about every tech they spoke with and expected the impossible. No matter how good their connection was it wasn't fast enough or clear enough. Every little hickup on their side was blamed on us. When we identified a customer as impossible to satisfy, we'd regretfully send them this letter:


      Dear customer:


      We have been examining the history of your account with us and seen a large number of problems, issues and complaints. Apparantly, we are unable to provide you with a level of service you find acceptable. Therefore, we are going to maintain your account for 30 days to let you find another providor then terminate the service. We wish you the best of luck with your new service and hope you find them more acceptable.


      This was a win-win situation. We got rid of the troublemaker, somebody else had to deal with them and the troublemaker couldn't even complain that we'd not given them a chance because we'd started out by accepting responsibility. (Note, however, that we never admitted that the customer's expectations were reasonable.)

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    13. Re:Drop them by Raistlin77 · · Score: 2, Funny

      "I have seen customers threaten former pc shops where I work with violence or come in and dude you are going to be soooo sorry bla bla."

      This has happened to me, rather recently actually. I work for a domain registration and hosting company, and the customer in question just happened to live about 3 miles from our office. About 4 months ago, his problem was that he was trying to transfer his domain and wanted us to unlock it, but he could not verify any info we requested - userID, password, security question, etc... He even refused to fax a copy of his driver's license. So I told him that there was absolutely nothing we would do for him unless he was willing to cooperate with us to verify his identity. He bitched and bitched, then threatened to come to our office (hinting at bodily injury), to which I replied happily "OK".

      So an hour later he arrives in my office. I don't think he expected what he walked into. I'm a pretty thick guy, rather intimidating, and certainly capable of pummeling your average joe into the ground. This customer was about 5-foot tall and weighed maybe 140lbs. He looked at me and asked if I were the one he were speaking to on the phone. I grinned and answered "Yep". He immediately turned around and walked out of the office and never came back.

      A couple of days later, a money order arrived in the mail along with a copy of his driver's license, and a request to renew the domain (instead of unlocking it).

    14. Re:Drop them by oyenstikker · · Score: 1

      I did not word that well. Often times, your customer is a company or organization with 300 people. You cannot drop the one problematic person, for obvious reasons.

      --
      The masses are the crack whores of religion.
    15. Re:Drop them by WebCrapper · · Score: 1

      I worked at a national ISP where a guy complained so much that he worked his way all the way to the VP. VP put a stop to it right there, sent an email to him that was very similar and instructed us to watch for him to check his mail. As soon as we saw that he grabbed his mail and logged off, we canceled his account. Within 5 minutes, he was trying to sign on again with no luck.

      I think that was the best case of customer service I have ever served out.

    16. Re:Drop them by techno-vampire · · Score: 1

      We had a similar case once with an obstreperous customer. Finally, he sent us an email threatening to sue us. The appropriate person read the message and called the customer's office. Said customer wasn't in, but his personal assistant was. She left a message telling him that either he called back within one hour to discuss the threat or she'd cancel his account. He didn't and she did. When the word got out, tech support gave her a standing ovation for getting rid of a troublemaker that every tech had learned to hate.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    17. Re:Drop them by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      Example - I have a nameless client that I agreed to complete a project with 10 hours of labor with very specific terms. I have now sunk in 30 hours of labor, it's gone way out of scope, they refuse to pay overage, and the project still isn't done.

      If you've done that, then you've already screwed up. You needed to have stood up to the guy and insisted on overage somewhere around hour 12.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    18. Re:Drop them by jimicus · · Score: 1
      Sometimes its best to let a competitor waste his resources on.

      In fact, why stop there?

      "Look, it's obvious I'll never be able to please you. But I don't like to part with customers on bad terms, so what I suggest you do is call [insert name of competitor] - their product's slightly different to mine and is perhaps more appropriate to someone with your requirements".
    19. Re:Drop them by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      A long time ago, I worked as a basic hourly wage-slave in a photo finishing shop. We were (until it got bought by a national chain, but that's another story) a fairly high-end place. We charged more, we took longer, but we did much better work than your average minilab. In general, we had very satisfied customers. But every once in a while we had people that were just chronic complainers.

      Usually the worst would be somebody who fancied themselves to be Ansel Adams, but in reality was so incompetent they could barely use their own equipment. They'd come in with a roll of horrible photos ("what do you mean, I shouldn't use 100-speed film indoors without a flash at night? But I have this expensive camera!"), which we would duly attempt to print, and then naturally we'd be accused of gross incompetence when they got back green images. (Green being what happens when you under-expose paper in an attempt to pull the faintest traces of an image off of the negative.)

      Our cue was that whenever someone started bitching that we weren't any better than the drug store across the street, we'd hand them a complimentary roll of film and invite them to use the drug store in the future.

      Most of the time, people who actually tried them would come back to us; other times they wouldn't, and we'd say good riddance.

      The "average customer" isn't worth a whole lot, to be honest. Once a person starts taking up a ton of employee time, hurting employee morale, or making a scene in the store and causing grief to other more reasonable customers, it's probably beneficial to just get them to go away in whatever way is easiest and involves creating the least bad blood. Pouring more effort into their problems just isn't worthwhile -- it's like continuing to double-down on a roulette wheel; it might seem like the right thing to do, but in the long run you'll probably end up losing more than you'll gain. There are always exceptions, of course, and many national retailers have gone too far the other way, but saying "The Customer Is Always Right" is terribly naive.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    20. Re:Drop them by BK425 · · Score: 1

      Setting expectations is a critical part of sales and support. If your customers have unreasonable expectations about your product/service you have some responsibility for that (or, at least the support and sales staff they've been in contact with do). I agree that you should "drop them" but you need to do it in a way that leaves them open to revisiting the whole thing one day. Don't just throw up your hands and toss their money back at them, own the mistake that was made when the product/services capabilities was -not- made clear. Apologize (not in a snarky way thank you) for screwing up their expectations unrealistically and thank them for trying as you hand their money back.

      By extinguishing the bridge rather then pumping gas onto it, after they try the competition and find it worse still, you might still earn the right to win them back. Don't screw it up the second time. bk425

    21. Re:Drop them by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 1

      You're working with the assumption that the company is always at fault to some degree. It is worth evaluating to see if there is fault within the company, but in my experience, if there is a customer that is so unpleasant that I've decided to fire them, we're dealing with a chronic griper.

      Again, speaking as someone with about a decade of experience in residential treatment, sometimes you can take on a customer, do your best to please them, and do nothing wrong, and still have continual complaints from them. Without going into all the background, in short, such people are unhappy with themselves and their own life. Unless they get serious therapy or face a grave crisis, they just don't change. I know I don't want them coming back if they're like that.

      My attitude is that any complaints deserve the question, "How could this have been prevented?" Some are simple, like better documentation, or a better interface. Others need an in depth review. There are many cases where you can do your best, but you're dealing with someone who just won't be satisfied. In such a case, the only mistake was taking them on as a customer in the first place.

      There are times when the bridge should be burned. It's not often, but it happens.

    22. Re:Drop them by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      Every business has customers like that, but you made it sound like it was a lot, "I seem to attract them". It's just taht assholes always stand out.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  2. The Bottom Line. by violent.ed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You Can't. You Just Can't. Let a higher-up manager deal with them. That's what they get paid for.

    --
    - You're not paranoid, they really are after you.
    1. Re:The Bottom Line. by TubeSteak · · Score: 1
      Higher-up managers also get issued pointy sticks when they are promoted to the position.

      The pointy sticks are for dealing with employee morale and customer support issues.

      MoOsEb0y must be a very good employee if he is not aware of this fact.

      /Pointy sticks are about the only thing that hasn't happened to Dilbert

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:The Bottom Line. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I totally agree with letting a higher-up manager deal with the customer. It is such a relief to know that it is not your problem. Most clients are nice to me, but some aren't.

      I had to give phone support after hours to a total b*tch once. She was complaining and name calling and so forth. I told her it sounded like she had a problem and I asked her if she wanted [the higher-up manager] to call her and discuss this with her. She said yes.

      My next question was this: Do you want me to get off the phone right now and have him call you, or do you want me to try and fix your computer problem?

      This shut her up. Of course she wanted the computer problem fixed. Her attitude for the rest of the phone conversation was much better.

      The next business day, my boss totally took her side instead of mine, which sucks. But all I got was a breif lecture, no real punishment.

  3. FP? by dosius · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can't always assume the customer is always right... sometimes they're just wrong and you just have to let them know. It's all you can do. :/

    -uso.

    --
    What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
    1. Re:FP? by John+Hasler · · Score: 0

      > You can't always assume the customer is always right...

      "The customer is always right" doesn't mean what you think it does.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:FP? by TheWanderingHermit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It does.

      You're thinking it means even when they're wrong, they're right.

      That's not true and if you spend the time needed on customers that complain no matter what you do, you lose a lot of money trying to satisfy someone who will never be happy. That kind of customer is wrong -- wrong for your business, wrong headed, and just plain in need of a decade of therapy.

      The customer is not always right. You deal with the ones that you can and the ones that are never happy -- let them go to your competition and be unhappy with them. Some people are just incapable of being satisfied because they have their own problems. You can't help them, you can't fix them. Let someone else waste time and resources on them.

      You can take the attitude you're implying, but that means sinking a lot of resources into a losing endeavour and, in the long run, isn't worth the profit on the sale or even the profit on word of mouth because such people will never give you good word of mouth.

    3. Re:FP? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'the customer is always right' means that you should treat customers as if they are always right if you want to keep their business, even if they are wrong and/or assholes if you don't want/need their business, then they are not always right

    4. Re:FP? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      The customer is NOT always right. He is, however, the one paying your bills.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    5. Re:FP? by Tweekster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If he is wasting my time, then he can "pay" someone elses bills while I deal with profitable clients.

      Most businesses simply arent in a desperate need for every single client they can get. Most business like the clients can easily choose who they do business with.

      --
      The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
    6. Re:FP? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

      True; it is up to both the customer and business owner to maintain the business relationship. If a customer is too expensive (say, your customer runs off other customers) you have every right and probably obligation to dump him as a customer.

      But too many business owners (e.g., record companies) think they are ENTITLED to money. You're not. You're only entitled to money customers are willing to trade for your goods or services.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  4. Humor them by kingkade · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Due diligence is important though so make sure you actually do try to find their problems. If nothing's found, humor them and say you've looked into the problem. Try to get their system specs, environment settings, etc, etc, ad nauseum and they'll learn they better be able to provide a lot of detials next time they decide to report a complaint on a whim if that's the case.

    1. Re:Humor them by andrewman327 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Better yet: try to actually look at their computer that is running so poorly. If they run it on laptops or in a horizontal enviroment, they could bring you their computer and replicate the error. Even if it runs on a desktop, if the problem is serious enough they could consider bringing it in. Try to get the exact enviroment in which the alleged error is occuring.

      --
      Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
    2. Re:Humor them by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I couldn't agree more. I had a hard case were a customer purchased a new computer and because of not only certain software he installed but because of the way he was using the damn thing caused a memory leak and after hours of work, it just froze up losing every thing he did for the last hour or so.

      As it turned out, he installed Microsoft office 2000 (from an internet download site) on a windows 98 computer and only updated to service pack one or so. He then installed some sermon writing program and wrote his sunday sermons on office so he could place an outline in powerpoint and project it durring the church service. There was some obscure problem wich was fixed in later service packs (sp2 i think, been a while) that caused a memory leak when copy and pasting from hyperlinked documents. It wasn't untill I observed the crash and the way the computer was being used before I could pinpoint the problem. I guess service pack two or later checked for authenticity of the microsft office product and he was afraid it would cause problems with him having it installed on two different computers and not owning a legit copy.

      It was one month, four complete wipe and reloads plus replacing almost every component before the problem got to me. After two weeks of not being able to reproduce the problem I decided to have him show it too me (and showed him how to operate the autosave feature). The problem didn't become clear until I noticed the only difference (outside the parts) between his old computer and new was the office service packs. Sure enough I found a reference to a fix for something resembling the problem in the SP2 release notes.

        He had bad mouthed us, verbaly abused the counter girls and techs, made claims that we sold junk computers, trash talked us at his church and finaly threatend to file a lawsuite against us. It was good to explain to him the problem was because he installed pirated software and wouldn't apply the patches because he was afraid of getting caught. I found records were we installed the Office service packs on his old computer when it was serviced previously wich is why it didn't act the same. Needless to say, after I explained the office issue and the problem couldn't be recreated after the service pack update, he still tried to claim he was right and still maintained if it was a good computer, it wouldn't have had the problem. We then filed a slander and liebel suite against him. As part of the judgment, he had to mention in a newspaper add that he was wrong, uninformed to the workings of a computer and was the cause of the problems he was complaining about. He was also barred from entering our premises again.

      That shop is out of business now, the owner died in a jet ski accident while drinking too much and his family had to liquidate to pay the damages. IT probably wouldn't have lasted too much longer because of all the preacher said at the church and stuff ruined any positive word of mouth advertising and made a quite a few other clients go elswere. In hind site, we should have just refunded his money and told him to go somewere else. But after we were commited, we had to solve the issue one way or another.

    3. Re:Humor them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The moral of your story is: Never do business with Christians, especially ministers. They're all a bunch of fucking assholes.

  5. tough question by frosty_tsm · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've been in that situation, and it's not fun.

    If you can't track down a cause for the problem, the best you can do is explain to them the limitations of the product and product development, etc. If they are saying the product is unresponsive when it's just being a little slow, then that's not going to work. If it really becomes a big problem, you may need to refer them to the engineering team.

    Just hope the engineer doesn't say "I'm a people person, damnit!"

  6. Demonstration? by Phantombrain · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Ask them to give you a demonstration of the product and show you what's wrong with it, then work with them.

    --
    echo YOUR_OPINION > /dev/null
    1. Re:Demonstration? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      murder, obviously. it's no different than murdering your identical twin.

    2. Re:Demonstration? by Yert · · Score: 1

      If you have sex with your clone, is it masturbation, incest, or just plain vanity?

      --
      Truck driver, plumber, Linux systems engineer.
  7. Just seen.. by AsmCoder8088 · · Score: 1

    Let me guess, is this the customer at work testing your so-called "incompetent" product?

  8. Use my patented method by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
  9. Help them by decep · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If the customer is important enough then try to see the problems from their perspective; give them the benefit of the doubt. Assign a customer-oriented, technical person to be onsite to see the "problem" first-hand. See if it really is a problem (bug or implementation) or just an expectation problem. The absolute worst thing to do is dismiss it outright.

    If it is too much trouble for your organization, give your customer the names of some competing product or another product that will fit the task and send them on their way.

  10. Nothing positive to say about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative


    Hey

    I don't mean to flame, but I have been in the opposite position. I have had a laptop where it will fail something like Memtest, I will send it in and the technicians will say I am not a tech and that there is nothing wrong according to their certified tools. I have had hard drive failuers that techs could not detect and I have had broken keyboard where the one letter (q I believe) only worked if you pushed really hard on it and the technician has said it was normal.

    Since all of that I have moved into a tech job. I have had computers come to me after they have brought them to other dealers and I have found things wrong. Though I am sure you are good at what you do I recommend you check everything. Sometimes the check list does not cover everything. I know that everytime I sent my laptop into Toshiba Tech with a broken DVD drive it was certainly never tested as it always came back broken until I gave up and replaced it myself.

    Having said that I have had one occurence where I could not find something wrong. The customer was saying that the computer was to slow. In that instance I called them up with some timings I had made. E.g. Word takes 10 sec to start etc. Asked them if this was the problem. I would send it back to them and have them time it. I eventually found out that thought everything was suppose to be instantnious.

    So after all that my advice, phone them up. Have them walk you over the phone what is wrong with it. Then you can tell them either you cannot reduplicate the issue, or that you don't support that.

    1. Re:Nothing positive to say about this by soft_guy · · Score: 0, Troll

      technicians will say I am not a tech and that there is nothing wrong according to their certified tools

      Technicians don't know shit about fuck - otherwise they wouldn't be technicians.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
    2. Re:Nothing positive to say about this by Detritus · · Score: 1
      Technicians don't know shit about fuck - otherwise they wouldn't be technicians.

      That has to be one of the most ignorant things that I've ever read on slashdot.

      --
      Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
    3. Re:Nothing positive to say about this by shawngarringer · · Score: 1
      But also one of the most true...

    4. Re:Nothing positive to say about this by NoMaster · · Score: 1
      That has to be one of the most ignorant things that I've ever read on slashdot.
      Just wait ... wait ... wait ...

      wait ...

      wait ...

      wait ...

      wait ...

      OK. Read the front page now.

      --
      What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
    5. Re:Nothing positive to say about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds almost like your average mechanic!

      Apparently I work on my own PC for the same reason my father does his own auto repair...

  11. Reply with the following email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FYYFF

    (EOM)

    1. Re:Reply with the following email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bite, what does FYYFF mean? I'm guessing
      Fix Your [blank] [blank] Fuck

    2. Re:Reply with the following email by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe it's
      Fuck you, you fucking fuck.

  12. How sure are you that you're right? by blincoln · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's possible that you're wrong, and the product really is performing poorly for them, and not because of a legitimate reason like "the server is slow because so many people are using it simultaneously."

    I have been on both sides in situations like this where the service provider or vendor was wrong. I've made the mistake of jumping to conclusions when I couldn't replicate the problem, or when I thought the customer was being unreasonable. I've also had to deal with people who were clearly making the same mistake, and it cost them any future business from me.

    My advice would be that if they're still convinced it's a problem, either go see it in person (if this is an expensive product), or offer them a full refund.

    --
    "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    1. Re:How sure are you that you're right? by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      Seconded. A business relationship should ideally be profitable in some way for both sides.

      Don't assume the customer is an idiot and doesn't know what they are doing, but at the same time, recognize that some relationships are unsustainable for you as a vendor due to whatever reason. If there is nothing you can do for them, offer them a refund and move on. Ill feelings (or being "right") on either side is not worth it in this short life.

  13. Maybe...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps it has intermitant issues that need to be tested more thoroughly? Perhaps there's an outside variable causing the product not to work (I guess the "user" has already been mentioned here, but there are others). I don't know enough about the product to know if this is possible. People will believe what they want to believe as consumers, so you either need to reason with them or just bite the bullet and take the product back.

  14. Five rules of thumb. by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 4, Insightful
    1. No matter how difficult it may be, always be calm and agonizingly polite. If the customers thinks you are being smug, superior or god forbid implying they are stupid you will quickly discover that it is actually possible for somebody to shout so loudly into a telephone that your eardrum will burst.
    2. Never claim that the customer is wrong unless you can prove it. If he/she claims you or somebody at your company screwed up, be polite, take the customers word for it for the moment and then check the situation out if you are lucky you will prove them wrong if not prepare to eat crow for whoever screwed up and contact the customer. At this point it might be appropriate to keep rule #1 in mind.
    3. Always remember to cover your ass by keeping a 'paper trail' of your interaction with the customer. By that I mean archive your e-mail and snail mail (back when I dealt with customers a lot I actually got people dredging up 2,3 and 4 year old support issues) and tape any conversations if your company offers this facility which a lot of them do these days. If not ask customers to repeat important requests or statements they make on the phone by e-mail so you have a record of it.
    4. If the customer keeps coming back with totally unreasonable claims and you can't get rid of them take the papertrail to one of the PHB's explain the matter to them and have the PHB contact the customer that's the PHB's job if worst comes to worst the PHB can sick a lawyer on the customers lawyer and you can enjoy the ensuing mudslinging contest.
    5. Always remember to keep a regular lookout for a new job that does not involve frequent contact with customers.
    --
    Only to idiots, are orders laws.
    -- Henning von Tresckow
  15. You do what you can, and treat the true problem by ArielMT · · Score: 1, Funny

    You do everything you can to try to find the true problem, then you work with the client to find an acceptable solution. If your client is similar to this computer store customer [Video], then you take the appropriate action. Watch the video to the very end to see how to handle the situation properly.

    --
    It must be Windows. It needs half a gig of RAM and a hardware-accelerated graphics card just to run Solitaire.
    1. Re:You do what you can, and treat the true problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't call the action taken by the salesman at the end of that video "appropriate". I'd call it "unsafe". The video ends just as the customer is reaching over the desk to grab the guy, presumably not to give him a nice hug...

    2. Re:You do what you can, and treat the true problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That video looked staged.

    3. Re:You do what you can, and treat the true problem by soluzar22 · · Score: 1

      The thing is that I've been in same situation as that customer when it actually was the fault of the company. I don't find that video amusing or entertaining, even though I sympathise with the member of staff. The customer in that instance was an asshole, but then again, most companies are weasels about repairing or replacing faulty hardware. That video does a very nice job of spreading propaganda, but in my experience, there are just as many situations like this [slashdot.org] as there are situations like the one in that video.

      Bottom line? It sucks really hard to be a technically inclined customer, because the support staff at whatever company you give your valuable business to will most likely a) not be technically inclined, and b) assume that you are not either. I have only limited sympathy for sob-stories from tech support guys. It's a hard job, and you knew that when you took it on. If thats the way you're earning your crust, then you go in every day with the full knowledge that it's not an easy, pleasant, or satisfying task. I'm not about to support those customers who shout at you, or employ verbal abuse, but I am quite bored of being treated as an imbecile by technical support.

    4. Re:You do what you can, and treat the true problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can see the "clerk" grin in the last few seconds, just as the "customer" grabs him.

      funny, but faker than silicone.

    5. Re:You do what you can, and treat the true problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally. And the computer he brought in was pretty old (like, a PowerMac 7x00 series machine or maybe a desktop G3) and the CD bay appears to have the drive missing. Also, look at how careful the "customer" is to keep the computer on the cushioned mat on the counter each time before he slams his fist down onto it.

      Looks like some employees of the store trying to have a little fun and maybe take out their frustrations with customers by filming a little skit. Unfortunately it's not very entertaining to more mature persons.

  16. Simple. by SocialEngineer · · Score: 1

    I try to please them as much as I can without giving them oral. If that doesn't work, then I point them to a piece I did just recently, explicating how they make me feel.

    Seriously though, sometimes you just have to guage how much you value that customer. I work in the newspaper industry (art, advertising, and new media), and when a print product doesn't come out like they wanted, we'll determine if it's our fault or theirs. Usually, we'll give them a free run in the paper, sometimes even if it is their fault (for instance, not catching something in the proof we sent them). If the customer becomes belligerent, or refuses to pay their bill, we cut them off and tell them to find another place to advertise until they grow up. Mistakes happen in any industry - while it does suck, we can only compensate a customer so much.

    --
    "Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
  17. prepare to be sued by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hold both the copyright and trademark on telling a customer to "fuck off"!

  18. Perhaps they want out? by DuctTape · · Score: 5, Insightful
    It could very well be that the customer realized that they just bought something that was either totally inappropriate or that they spent more than they should, so now they're trying to get out of it by complaining so much that you'll give them their money back somehow, some way. Better to do that than to lose face and admit their idiocy.

    Perhaps too plain and simple an answer.

    DT

    --
    Is this thing on? Hello?
    1. Re:Perhaps they want out? by donaldrobertson · · Score: 1

      This is just along the lines of what I was thinking. People often take up positions such as "your software is slow" or "your company is inept" when in reality it is some other interest that they actually need fulfilled. Sometimes when you are dealing with a stubborn customer the best thing to do is calm down, start asking questions about their whole experience and find out what they are really after. "your product is slow" could mean they had a bad experience with a salesperson or as ductape said that they just feel like they paid too much. Once you find what they really want you'll be better able to come up with creative solutions that will meet their needs. Not that that's easy.

  19. Maybe you are wrong.... by Chanc_Gorkon · · Score: 1

    I am probably on the opposite side of this kind of situation. We even had the vendor come in and do a complete analysis during one of our busiest times. They gave us a report that told us nothing new. Thier excuse? The next version, due any day now, is supposed to be faster then the old one and they only give us 7 months to upgrade to it(no,, not really, but in our case, we're a college....you DON'T launch new products during the Fall quarter! Which means we launch in April for summer registration, our lowest time of year). Anyway, we have had third parties VERIFY the issue is with the software, yet the VP's running the company have never heard of the issue. Oh and this is running on what is some of the fastest stuff available....16 processors and 100 gig of ram....tons of hardware....we could write a system that would be EASILY 3-4 times as fast as this crap we're running now....and NOT upgrade for another 4 years.....Yeah our version would nto be as complex, but it would do what WE want and not all of the extra junk. So when you THINK the customer is wrong, make sure you are really sure about that.

    --

    Gorkman

  20. Define the terms slow and unresponsive by bigbigbison · · Score: 1

    While I'm sure this is a simplified summary of what occurred, there needs to be more investigation into the problem than, "It looks fine to me." What exactly is slow, how slow is it, when is it slow? What is unresponsive, how unresponsive is it, when is it unresponsive?
    It could very well be that the customer has found some part that is slow and unresponsive, or it could just as easily be that the customer has unrealistic expectations and you need to show them a competitor's product and say, "see, it is just as slow and unresponsive as you think ours is."
    Ask for more information. Ask for more details.
    Of course the customer could be unrealistic, and no amount of effort is going to make them happy. In that case tell them not to let the door hit them on the way out.
    Look at the discussions around here. Every time any software has a story, there are always a number of people complaining about how "slow and unresponsive" that software is. "OMG, I've had it running for three months straight and it is taking up 80mb of my 2gig of ram. What a piece of crap!"

    --
    http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
    1. Re:Define the terms slow and unresponsive by soft_guy · · Score: 1

      Dude, your customers are not your QA department.

      --
      Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
  21. The customer's network isn't your fault. by attemptedgoalie · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have had many issues where a customer's overzealous internal network security slowed EVERYTHING they did down. But they wouldn't talk about their apps, only ours.

    Does the app run in an environment that doesn't have as much connection to anything they might have broken internally?

    Do the guy's co-workers think it's slow as well, or is this person insane?

    --
    My mom says I'm cool.
  22. Well.. by CashCarSTAR · · Score: 1

    The number of people out there who will complain just for the sake of complaining...for entertainment purposes...is shockingly high.

    It's best to keep your distance from these people, as they are selfish and unpredictable.

  23. Right! That's the ticket! by gd23ka · · Score: 0

    "If it is too much trouble for your organization, give your customer the names of some competing product or another product that will fit the task and send them on their way."

    And on their way out they will tell everybody and the world what a bunch of whankers you are. Some of us actually
    survive or go under by mouth propaganda.

  24. Refund by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I worked on a plugin that's being sold today. One of the things I pushed for early on is that we can offer refunds for people that cannot get it working, even if the fault's on their end instead of ours. As a result, we're pretty quick to say "If we cannot get this working, don't worry, we'll give you your money back." It has been my experience that most customers that hear this early on are happier to work with us troubleshooting the problem. It puts them into a position of feeling like we're truely trying to help them, plus it relieves them of the burden of trying to prove it's our fault. We've had a few hundred sales, and we've only issued a couple of refunds. To the best of my knowledge, we don't have any unhappy customers, and that includes the two we gave refunds to. (Heck, they may even come back when they have some time to put into troubleshooting.)

    I don't know if you can offer a refund or not, but I thought I'd suggest it. I can tell you from personal experience that inability to get your money back is one of the biggest frustrations with support problems. If you can get the money element off the table, you may enjoy a better support experience.

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  25. Be as creative as possible. by botlrokit · · Score: 2, Insightful
    You have opportunities in the short timeframe presented by the interaction with the customer. In those moments, there are a variety of things to consider:

    (1) Their perception is completely based on their inability to properly understand how the system works... or worse, they don't want to know. If what they feel is stirred by their ignorance, you can't beat that until you demonstrate (with a LOT of patience) that it does work.

    This technique is more valuable than most people consider, because when you work with the customer as directly as possible (or explain as simply as you can what the readouts of the Task Manager Processes window actually represents), it actually helps to create the relationship that businesses really want with service providers.

    (2) Another thing guiding their perception is spawned by the possibility that other systems may interfere with your systems. Your benchmarks and your test environment are not the same as theirs in production... what you see as a working, functioning model does not mean the outcome will be the same where they are.

    Easiest example is like a network throughput test. You may see 100mbit full duplex, but they may work in a hubbed environment with a jabbering NIC somewhere on the network. Or a quiet network such as yours may not make multiple requests to the machine in question, but when they put it back online, it may be getting DoSsed out the yang.

    (3) Last thing is to demonstrate the importance of your SLA, and what it does not cover. You must be firm about this, and explain that while your benchmarks indicate proper function, for a reasonable fee you can watch over their shoulder after it's reimplemented.

    This becomes a cost/benefit exercise, but in one fell swoop, if you have the opportunity to visit his site, you might charge an hour's service wage to investigate on your own. Most often when I'm having to look at the impossible possibility, I have to open my mind as wide as possible, and consider as many variables as I reasonably can.

    Keep your perspective as wide as possible. People don't always intend to insist things are your fault, but you better be aware of the fact that this customer will not be the first to bitch. If you succeed at solving the problem, you have both satisfied the customer, and demonstrated your ability to agreeably end hostile customer problems.

  26. Get rid of them by gweihir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Some customers are unskilled and unaware of it (PDF link, 254kB). There is nothing you can do. In these people the level of incompetence is high enough that they cannot recognize their own inability. The only thing you can do is stay away from them. Don't explain, don't try to make it right. You cannot. Limit your losses and get rid of them. If nothing else helps, take the device back and give them a full refound.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  27. Vague question by mshurpik · · Score: 1

    > In my particular situation, I have a customer who claims that the product we delivered them was slow and unresponsive. However, when we tested it to try and determine what was wrong, we didn't find anything wrong with it.

    Sorry, you'll have to be more specific.

  28. Warrantability of goods and services by curebox · · Score: 1

    This is a situation where you should have a warrantability document that they must read before you do business with them. It doesn't have to be incredibly complex. You can google for thousands of examples of disclaimers of warrantability. I've been in the hospitality/restaurant business, and the IT sector as a small businessman for quite a while.

    In the hospitality industry, usually, they just want someone to listen to them whine for a while because they are lonely. I find the ones that have a *legitimate* complaint in a hotel setting are very understanding of mitigating circumstances; They don't expect the sun to blink out *just* for them. The ones who seem unreasonable almost ALWAYS are looking for a free room, or a discount.

    In the IT arena, it's not quite the same. Some of them want their money back because they dropped more money than they could afford, and some of them want you to fix a product that was designed in their own fantasy world (i.e., you didn't have a disclaimer of warrantability), so they expect it to do things that it wasn't designed to do.

    Thusly, do yourself a favor, and create a disclaimer of warrantability.

    Cheers.

    --
    Forget this. In memorial.
  29. Tell them they are fired by SpacePunk · · Score: 1

    There's nothing wrong with firing a customer and/or client if they cost you more than you will ever make from them. Bad customers must be shown the door, then they become your competitions problem. Let the bad customer suck the life out of your competition instead of you.

  30. Adress the situaiton, not the technical problems. by j741 · · Score: 1

    I have found that the most effective way to handle any client is to fully adress the situation at hand, and not just the technical issues (or percieved issues). All aspects of the situation must be examined with care. Be calm. Listen to everything the client tells you (and do not interrupt him/her) then repeat the situation back to the customer to make sure that you both have the same understanding of the situation. Also document everything. Be thorough. Record all indications of trouble, either stated by the customer or your own conjecture. Record all actions taken by you and your customer. Then you can start to get to the root of the problem.

    If the client believes that you understand the situation and are really trying to resolve the situation (or find an acceptable workaroud) then he/she is much more likely to be happy with your company and more willing to pay your fees. If, however, the client is simply unwielding, beligerent, rude, or unacommodating then it may be time to end your business relationship and focus on other clients.

    --
    - James
  31. Steve Jobs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... is that you?

  32. Maybe they're right by dtfinch · · Score: 1

    We had a POS (point of sale) / inventory system that would occasionally freeze for everyone for exactly 3 minutes. There were also times where it'd slow to about 1/20th of it's normal speed (3 second report might take a minute) until the database server (just the service) was restarted. I never could find any network problems to explain it, and the server was pretty idle almost all the time. Maybe the author believed us, but it was never resolved. Eventually we just made the costly switch to something else.

    Though I'm sure you encounter many customers who expect the software to be infinitely intelligent and psychic. If they're sincere, there's not much you can do about them, except sever your relationship with them and feel secure in the knowledge that their life will be full of disappointment. But I suspect a number of customers will just exaggerate the problems of the software in an attempt to end their service agreement with a refund, like this person.

  33. Simple by vga_init · · Score: 1

    Challenge them to find a better product.

  34. Facets of points-of-view by AllParadox · · Score: 2, Informative

    Some dumb and sort-of-unrelated observations: It isn't how it looks to you, it is how it feels to him. I was walking out of the courthouse with a client after the judge ruled against us. My client told me not to worry about it. He said I had clearly presented his case. He knew there was a chance of losing, and he had lost the gamble. He thought he had received justice because he had his side clearly and eloquently presented, and he felt the judge had ruled against him on one of the marginal points. Southwest Airlines employees like to re-tell the story of the lady that wrote numerous complaint letters, objecting to many of Southwest's unique policies. The staff finally kicked one of her letters up to CEO Herb Kelleher. It took Kelleher sixty seconds to compose his response: Dear Mrs. Crabapple: We will miss you. Love, Herb. It isn't how it looks to him, it is how it looks to everyone else. That one sale will neither make nor break your business. If the rest of the general public is convinced that you treated him fairly and respectfully, listened to his problems, and made a serious effort to find and eliminate any possible problems, then you are ahead of the game. With those kinds of folks, I find it best to go a little overboard. When they complain to friends and neighbors that you didn't do what they wanted, they will be quizzed about what you did do. When the complainers describe the above-and-beyond things you did to fix their problem, first, the audience will disbelieve the complainer, and second, it might just generate some business. It often worked that way for me.

    --
    All is paradox. Retired lawyer, so this is just one more layman's opinion.
  35. Nothing wrong but was it "slow and unresponsive" by Browzer · · Score: 1

    Usually I come in late in the game when the customer is already unsatisfied, and most of the time for very good reasons. I don't know who you're dealing with or at what stage in the game you enter, but none of my customers are in any position to judge my competence in my expertise, otherwise they wouldn't require my help. I do know people who can judge my competence in my expertise, but they are not my customers

    "I have a customer who claims that the product we delivered them was slow and unresponsive. However, when we tested it to try and determine what was wrong, we didn't find anything wrong with it."

    I had a similar experience last year. Two months of debating and hair pulling with a major hosting company over the meaning of slow, and "anything wrong". In the end we did agree that a 2K/s for static pages, and .2K/s for dynamic pages should fall under unresponsive, unresponsive should fall under "something" wrong, and something wrong especially for a commercial website leads to a very unsatisfied customer.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantitative

  36. Check the customer's computers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You will never understand their problems until you step in their shoes.

    The software you will always work very well in your own computer.

    However, when it is install in your customer's computer. Your application will be fighting for resources
    with the customer's 101 applications.

    The matter will be worst if their computers are a few years older than yours.

  37. OMG by q256 · · Score: 0

    You must work for Blizzard on that WoW thing.

    --
    Once upon a time, a soon to be mommy and daddy loved each other very much (the lust was strong as well as the drinks)
  38. Dave Rat ( from the world of Audio ) has story... by mikelieman · · Score: 1
    http://ratsound.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Li ve_Gig_Board;action=display;num=1149666887;start=9 #9

    Rat Sound Message Board
      General
        Doing the Gig (Moderator: Forum Admin)
          when singers throw your mics around!

    While the issues may be different, the idea of taking a PROBLEM and rendering it into an opportunity is the same.



    I feel that establishing a fair and positive method of getting reimbursed for damaged gear is both professional and wise.

    I just wanted to comment on the attitudes adopted. I have been following the broken gear comments and there seems to be a missing angle.

    The angle of embracing the damage as a expense (reimbursable or not) and smiling all the way through, is one that has served us well towards success.

    In my opinion, it is quite common for sound vendors to lose perspective of the bigger picture and take an adversarial position against the bands over minor things.

    How much is the damage really? $20 mic ball? $30 mic stand when new and now valuable parts to fix the 3 other dead ones? Is it our job to train bands to be 'good' and not break things that are 'valuable'?

    Or are we just to get our stuff destroyed with no recourse?

    Or is there a positive middle ground to be sought out?
    ...


    If anything, we had much trouble affording "non-dented" mics. We had no record company budgets and finally moved after the third robbery.

    We did make friends with a few bands, though, that really appreciated us not yelling at them for breaking stuff and loved how we took it as a challenge to build stronger more durable gear.

    Around the time of that photo we worked at Fender's, a club in Long Beach, CA. One band not only used to break our gear, and smash mic stands into wedges, but they were less than friendly regarding monitor world as well. And, these guys would get naked and paint themselves with florescent paint and get the paint on everything. Cleaning nightmare!

    About 4 years after that photo, an almost unknown band was the opener on a tour we did, our first tour above a club level. Well, the singer broke a mic stand every night and destroyed a mic every third night. Plus he jumped on the wedges, bashed the mic stand into the wedges and climbed all over the gear/PA during the show.

    So we worked out a deal with the and ordered a few cases of mic stands and some spare mics and sold them to the band at our cost as they broke and did our best to repair things. We worked to "minimize" the expence to the band so they could perform as they pleased.

    Who would have known that Pearl Jam would become so popular? And who would have guessed that they would be openening for the that damn band that painted themselves at Fender's, Chili Peppers.

    And they are just as welcome to break our stuff now as they were back when they were poor and unknown and Rat Sound was poorer and unknowner.
    --
    Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
  39. Huh?? by sm62704 · · Score: 1

    I have a customer who claims that the product we delivered them was slow and unresponsive. However, when we tested it to try and determine what was wrong, we didn't find anything wrong with it.

    Steve Ballmer is MoOsEb0y?

    --
    mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  40. Different by AndresCP · · Score: 1

    I'm not working in technology (I'm in university and working a summer job in dealing with conferences on campus) but I have a ton of interaction with customers. Specifically, we have a huge group (~1200) of elderly schoolteachers here. These people expect hotel level care and convenience from a fairly spread out dormitory campus, which we just aren't prepared to provide.

    We do as much as we can (a 24 hour help desk, for instance; I'm working 16 hour days with generous OT), but eventually you need to tell people that you cannot help them. Some tricks to this:

    1. As other people have said, for the love of god stay calm. More reasonable people will cool off when they realize they're the only ones yelling, but many won't, so...
    2. Also be firm. Let them know that you can't help them until they leave (even if it's not strictly true). If they get out of your hair, they may cool off.
    3. Pawning them off on a supervisor is always effective, or even someone imposing who might appear to be a supervisor.
    4. My boss told me this on the first day, and even if I can't always follow it, it's a good ideal: "Never say 'no,' always present an alternative.

    --
    "Just because you're eloquent doesn't mean you aren't a fucking crackpot." -Wavebreak
  41. Be more responsive by deblau · · Score: 1
    when we tested it to try and determine what was wrong, we didn't find anything wrong with it
    Try having the customer use your product, with you looking over their shoulder. I'm sure whatever testing environment you have set up is different from their deployed environment. That means going on-site. When you pay the time and money to take care of your customers, they will notice it, and your relationship will improve. It might even bring you referral business.

    How do you deal with a customer who is bent on assuming that you are incompetent, and that he or she could never have unreasonable expectations?

    If you aren't solving their problems, then you appear incompetent. Appearances go a long way. Which means, you need to figure out how to solve their problems, rather than do a few tests and throw up your hands in defeat. If it were me, I'd look at this as an opportunity to actually use my problem-solving skills, rather than just grind out code.

    --
    This post expresses my opinion, not that of my employer. And yes, IAAL.
  42. You need to find out what is really happening by Cassini2 · · Score: 1

    You need to find out what is really happening. Often, the users are experiencing problems. I deal with industrial applications. Generally, I assume the users are having problems, and I am not getting accurate enough descriptions to debug with.

    Often, the problems are real. It is just the cause that is not obvious.

  43. Is it always the customer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been on both ends. Sometimes, as a customer calling tech support, I've tried to explain the situation and had the other guy just assume I couldn't possibly be right and hang up on me. Calling back, I'd get a different person and then them work out for themselves what I'd tried telling the first guy. 40 minutes later the fact that the cable modem wasn't working because the entire neighborhood was out would eventually come to their attention, as I'd tried telling them at first.

  44. The customer may be right by scdeimos · · Score: 1

    Most comments here seem to be (unjustly) bagging the customer for their own ineptitude. Without more information about your product it's difficult to say, but it's possible that the customer is correct and is actually experiencing slow operation due to link latency between their site and yours. If you're testing the product's correct operation from your local network (instead of connecting from a remote ISP's dial-up or DSL link) of course it will seem fine.

    Remote users of MS Outlook's MAPI client, for example, can attest to how painful that product can be - same goes for international users of World of Warcraft on Blizzard's "Oceanic" servers.

  45. Memories of the BOFH by rcastro0 · · Score: 1

    All this SLA, technical support, loser/user interaction reminds me of...
    Well, I don't know if the younger /.ers were exposed to him. The BOFH.

    Excerpt:
    So, to relieve the boredom, I get some iron filings and pour them into the back of my Terminal until it fizzes out (Which doesn't take all that long, surprisingly enough), then call our maintenance contractors and log a fault on the device. Sometimes they'll send someone who knows what they're doing, but it's a lot more fun when they don't - which is about 98% of the time.

    So their maintenance guy comes in, and I can tell he's NEW because the photo on his ID actually LOOKS like him, not like the head engineer, whose photo's a black and white tin-type (he's that old).

    Maintenance Contractors always dress up nice, with a tie and everything because they believe that a customer will trust a nicely dressed guy with their million dollar equipment *just* because he's got a nice tie..

    Because he's NEW and ALONE, he's what you call an appeasement engineer, the new guy they send so they respond within the 4 hour guaranteed response period. (Things are getting better and better) Your average appeasement engineer is about as clued-up on computers as the average computer "hacker" is about B.O, and their main job is to make sure the power plug is in and switched on, then call back to the office for "PARTS". The really keen ones will sometimes even take a cover off the equipment and pretend that they see this stuff all the time. I wonder what sort today's is...


    Complete story here.
    All about BOFH@Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PFY

    --
    Quem a paca cara compra, paca cara pagará.
    1. Re:Memories of the BOFH by failedtoinit · · Score: 1

      BOFH is more than a mere memory my friend, There are new stories posted by Simon almost every week and can be found BOFH Stories

  46. Process correctly by meburke · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I get this all the time. I've been troubleshooting systems since the mid-60's, and now I get a lot of calls to fix systems that other techs and engineers failed to fix. One thing I've learned over all those years, is that 90% of problems on most projects (including my own) are due to inadequate design and specifications in the beginning.

    A problem is a discrepancy between the way things are and the way you want and expect them to be. All problems have a specific description, and elements of timing, location and scope. In order to resolve a customer's problem you must have agreement UP FRONT about what the resolved problem looks like in description, timing, location and scope. Without that agreement about "how you know when the problem is solved" you will just keep tracking unspecified problems. Precision is ultimately important.

    Now, if one of my projects fails to perform within the environment, time and extent that I promised, I fix it. Occasionally the customer has an additional requirement (change orders, anyone?). If I can profitably meet the customer's requirements, I will. Some projects are not worth fixing. In less than one percent of my projects have I had to give a refund or a discount, but I'm willing to do so if that will get some projects out of my hair. As has already been said, some customers are not worth having. I usually find this out when I try to get proper agreement on the specs and prices.

    Occasionally I find there are conditions outside my control that keep the project from performing like the customer expects. I will work with just about anyone to help alleviate these problems, but if it works correctly in my test environment, and if the test environment is spec'd at the design phase, and if the customer agreed to the test environment, then it's not my problem. (The last problem I had like that, about 4 years ago, the customer changed telephone systems just before I installed the project, and the new system had some incompatible idiosyncracies. The customer paid extra for me to resolve the problem.)

    If you are not trained in a formal problem resolution process, I recommend starting with "The New Rational Manager" by Kepner and Tregoe. Good luck

    --
    "The mind works quicker than you think!"
  47. You outsource to IBM and CA too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, really.
    *shudder*

    Funny Captcha word: Extract. Oh, the irony.

  48. SLA by slidersv · · Score: 1

    I see the solution in placing enough numerical thresholds, which can be precisely tested. Once the performance can be precisely evaluated using scientific method (and not subjective "feel"), customer can either proove fault using scientific method, or be satisfied with the product.

    --
    there is no issue with my network
  49. I've had good luck... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..."fixing" situations like this by having the customer *show* me how the product is not working. This has the dual benefit of showing you whether it's the product or the customer that is malfunctioning, as well as giving you a chance to educate the customer if needed.

  50. Perhaps investigating more by briancnorton · · Score: 1

    I can say that I have been on the customer side of this crappy equation, and it pisses me off. If their expectations were too high, then you need to reign in your sales-weasel that promised them the moon and the stars. If they aren't getting the functionality that can reasonably be expected, then you need to fix your software. In my case, the company told us that "We don't know why our software keeps crashing on your systems, but it had to be your fault because it works fine for us here. Let us know what you find out." For 70k per year we expected better. Two years later it doesn't work any better and we have to spend hours on workarounds to prevent crashes. Unfortunately they are the only ones that make software that does what it does.

    --

    People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.

  51. Refund??!?!?! by Ididerus · · Score: 1

    What are you people thinking? How do you stay in business with all these refunds you're giving out? The ONLY time you give a refund is when you do not deliever as promised. That means selling your product for what it is. Don't ever tell someone that your system will turn lead into gold, and if it does, then it does it at its own pace. Level of proformance should not be implied, as you cannot guarantee that. Only infomercials promise to do something at break-neck speeds. ATi doesn't tell you that you'll get 60fps in Farcry, just that it does 4x AA...

    Got a difficult customer? Tell them trouble-shooting is $35/hour

    --
    I'm fighting The War on Drugs!
  52. "Customer is always right"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Funny you should mention "The customer is always right" phrase.

    Not many people know or remember that this phrase was originally created by Sears, Roebuck, and Co. as a marketing motto about 100 years ago, around a decade after the Sears Catalog came into existence.

    If one were to quantify how horrific that quote's effect on world (and more significantly, US) culture has been, one may venture to remark that it would be similar to Ebola or AIDS -- compared to the "free gas for a year if you buy a new Hummer or Expedition" advertizing that seems to be going around nowadays that would roughly equate to a common Cold or a light case of Influenza.

    The customer is not always right. In most cases, the customer is dead wrong and is too ignorant to realize they are broadcasting that fact to everyone they meet.

  53. Translation by spun · · Score: 1

    In my particular situation, I have a customer who claims that the product we delivered them was slow and unresponsive.

    Customer: "Hey, Funkmaster Fresh Fly , those girls you sent over took two hours to get here, and they were nodding off on heroin when they arrived. They just lay there drooling!"

    However, when we tested it to try and determine what was wrong, we didn't find anything wrong with it.

    Funkmaster Fresh Fly: "Yeah, we fucked those bitches hard and they was squirmin' around and yellin' and shit. Maybe you just got a little dick?"

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  54. Maybe the customer is right? by GWBasic · · Score: 1
    How do you deal with a customer who is bent on assuming that you are incompetent, and that he or she could never have unreasonable expectations?

    Either you're dealing with a customer who isn't worth the effort, or you really aren't trying hard enough to solve the customer's problem.

    I've called many tech support desks where the help treated me as if I was being unreasonable, but the tech was being incompetent. Here are some examples:

    • I was having problems with my cable modem, and according to the manual, it was getting poor reception. The tech didn't believe me, treated me as if I was being unreasonable, and made me re-install TCP-IP and remove my hub. When I called back and got a better tech, she scheduled a service appointment. None of the phone techs ever suggested that I needed to use a different grade coaxial cable between the wall and modem, which was the actual problem.
    • Whenever my current cable provider has a problem on THEIR network, they always claim it's a problem with my equipment and try and send a tech. The third time it occured, the phone support tech went into "difficult customer" mode with me until I told her that the last two times there was a problem on THEIR network, they attempted to schedule an appointment with me.
    • Once one of my cable channels went out. The tech claimed that I didn't have the channel. I hung up and got a different tech.

    Again, perhaps you really haven't tried hard enough to understand the customer's problem.

  55. Much as I hate lawyers by phorm · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't a solution also be to sue him for defamation? It's overused, but that particular charge exists for a reason.

    1. Re:Much as I hate lawyers by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Probably, i was just a part time employee who worked with the stuff giving them issues in my spare time. I think lawsuites were in progress until the owner got drunk on a jetski and rammed a boat killing himself and injuring several of the boaters including sinking the boat.

      If that hadn't transpired, defamation, slander and probably liable would have been the grounds. instead, a complete sell off of everything from equiptment to the building the shop was located in, happened to cover the fines and lawsuite of the boaters. But this reminds me of a time a customer took me to court (working at a different latocation).

      He had a virus, we cleaned it with nortans (back in 2000 i think before it became bloatware), sold him a copy and installed it. He then thru the advice of someone on MSN messenger or was it yahoo chat turned the Antivirus off so he could view a picture. Of course this picture wasn't a picture but a trojan of some sorts. The end result was a wipe and reload of his computer because of odd slowness and random ports conecting to outside IP adresses even after the AV said it was clean. We told him we were going to do it and had him sign a consent to take the machine back to factory specs and told him to make sure he had backups or schedule a time to work with a tech so they could back everything up. He checked that he already had backups, brought the install media in and signed the consent for service. He got his computer back and his microsoft works wouldn't install because the disk was bad or something. We told him we could buy a new one and install it or he could probably get it cheaper from Bestbuy. Then he realized all his messenger acounts were gone and he had to download them, remeber the password, reconfigure his internet and email access and all the tyoicle stuff that makes reloading a computer a pain.

      Now he was pissed. we told him the he could use our highspeed conection and we could help but that wasn't good enough. he wanted a refund for the $95.00 we charged (labor and microsoft works for $25). He took us to small claims court claiming we screwed his computer up and was trying to get a refund and court costs. Everything as stated above was admited to in court. The judge asked him if he noew anything about computers and he said "not a thing" with a smile on our face, then he looked at us and asked the same. Of course we started running thru certifications that everyone held. Then decided the case in our favior suggesting we could have easily charged alot more for the extra time into helping him that we offered for free to help him get back up.

      So i guess goign out of my way for a customer has bit me on the ass on at least two occasions.

  56. You must be new to the business world by ReidMaynard · · Score: 1

    Phrases like ..claims that the product we delivered them was slow and unresponsive.. really means
    Time for Hookers and Booze.

    --
    -- www.globaltics.net

    Political discussion for a new world

  57. Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for the license, but I believe I have prior art

  58. wtf? by woolio · · Score: 1
    As it turned out, he installed Microsoft office 2000 (from an internet download site) on a windows 98 computer and only updated to service pack one or so. He then installed some sermon writing program and wrote his sunday sermons on office so he could place an outline in powerpoint and project it durring the church service.

    whoa.... Let's recap

    • A religious clergyman apparently forgot Thou shalt not steal.
    • The aforementioned person was running Windows 98.
    • The aforementioned person was using Powerpoint.
    • The aforementioned person was using Powerpoint IN A CHURCH!


    That guy's going to be spending a long time in the Sunday confession.
    1. Re:wtf? by welshsocialist · · Score: 1

      It's more common than you think. When I moved to the town I live in now, I got asked one Sunday at a church to go to the backroom and use a computer w/ Win98 and PPT to swap pages between the hymns. As for the stealing part, it's the reason i've sorta taken an extended vacation from Church. The hypocrisy was a bit strong to accept. With a variety of preachers, etc. like these fine people doing things that run contrary to the teachings, what do you do?

      --
      Support the Chagossians