Square Enix and LucasArts Talk Next-Gen Positioning

A number of companies have released some small details about their plans for next generation gaming. This week, Gamespot has new information from Square Enix and Lucasarts about their upcoming plans. Square, it's reported, sees the need for dramatic change in the industry; a physical game device or something for the DS might be in the offing. Lucasarts, on the other hand, has partnered with MechAssault developer Day 1 studios for an unnamed title with signature multiplayer elements and episodic content. From that article: "However, while the Day 1/LucasArts mystery project will feature downloadable content, Thorley would not say if it would adopt an episodic model a la Half-Life 2: Episode One and its two models. 'With the way [console certification works] the challenge is the economics of [episodic content],' he said. 'While we're not prepared to say whether we'll have episodic content for this new title, under certain circumstances it makes a lot of sense.'"

Comments

Lightsaber

[UbuntuDupe]

I just want to know about the Wiisaber. :-(

For example, how are they going to handle the hitting-air-when-lightsaber-hits-lightsaber problem? I know there are a number of ways to resolve it, I just want to know which one they're going with.

Re:Lightsaber

[Anonymous Coward]

What ways are those? [Not being a jerk, just can't think of any good ways personally]

Re:Lightsaber

[Truman Starr]

Is there a rumble feature built-in with the WiiMote? That would be one way to give tactile feedback. Obviously there will be input cutoffs.

How many people ever actually beat the old Nintendo track & field games by running on the pad? Everyone used their hands to just slap the hell out of it.

Re:Lightsaber

[smbarbour]

I think my signature ponders a question similar to that... Maybe there won't be lightsaber dueling, but just lightsaber versus everything else.

Re:Lightsaber

[UbuntuDupe]

What ways are those?

well, combining those that others have suggested with some things I can think of, here are some (note that they aren't necessarily realistic but still have significant immersive effect)"

1) When you hit, your saber on screen fades, and is powerless until you pull it back through the point where you hit, effectively training you to act like you connected.

2) When you hit, the enemy doesn't move, but rather, you "push yourself back", and the camera moves back to your new position.

3) When you hit, the *enemy* is knocked back.

4) (hopefully not) There are no foes with sabers, so your saber just goes through everything.

And note to people who mention the vibration: it's great if the Wii vibrates when you connect, but the focus is here is on how to handle your living-room wiimote physically going through a point it should not be able to go through, *not* that you need to be informed you are going through another saber, although that does help.

Maybe someone can find the old thread where this was discussed?

Re:Lightsaber

[Anonymous Coward]

About that sig of yours...

Isn't it ironic how a lightsaber (being a beam of light), can slice through anything... except another lightsaber?

If we assume that a lightsaber is a plasma stream contained in a force field it would make sense for such similar force fields to colide.

Re:Lightsaber

[assassingod]

Yes, there is a Rumble feature in the Wiimote, as well as the Nunchaku attachment.

Re:Lightsaber

[Anonymous Coward]

Nunchucks? Ohhh, my balls are already aching! You know what I mean!! what?

Re:Lightsaber

[A Brand of Fire]

The Geek is strong with this one...

In all seriousness, I, too, am awaiting a lightsaber game for the Wii. Better put me in the boobie hatch, too. :)

Re:Lightsaber

[Gromius]

here's hoping the nunchaku is used for some sort of force push/pull, probably could take advantage of the rumble somehow. That could be so cool. Please Lucasarts, dont screw this up.

Re:Lightsaber

[aichpvee]

Those are actually pretty good ideas.

Maybe for force powers you could hold the B button to activate force push/pull with the location of the pointer determining the target. When you push forward it pushes the object away from you, to the sides throws the object in that direction, and pulling it back pulls the object. With the force determined by how hard you move the controller. Even cooler if you could target specific locations on the target to do things like pull a weapon out of an enemy's hand or yank their legs out from under them.

Holding the A button and doing a gesture could activate other force powers that don't need the directional component. Like A + forward could do force choke and moving up could do force jump.

If the game calls for using guns, maybe these could be on the nunchaku's C and Z buttons stead. That way you could use B for the gun trigger or doing special moves with the lightsaber (like a spinning slash that would totally wreck your living room if it were a 1:1 motion) and A could be used for jumping.

I guess you'd have to do without a strafe move though, at least when using the lightsaber. Maybe have some way to do a quick sidestep?

Now we just need to figure out how to deal with getting your sword hand cut off in multiplayer...

Re:Lightsaber

[aichpvee]

And while we're at it, how about a first person Bushido Blade from Square-Enix? I've been waiting for a proper follow up (you know, without crazy load times) for years.

Re:Lightsaber

[AcidLacedPenguiN]

Now we just need to figure out how to deal with getting your sword hand cut off in multiplayer...

obviously the built in Wii-splosive that sits right next to the rumble device.

Re:Lightsaber

[kthejoker]

You know, not only did we do this, but we had just as much fun doing that as we ever did actually running on the thing. Which raises the question of just what exactly constitutes video game fun, anyway?

Why don't developers release more minigame collections? I'm not talking about NES revival, but if they could give me 20 NES-equivalent games with decent (not even state of the art) graphics for $50, I'd do it.

You don't have to wow me, game developers! Just start churning and burning! Let democracy declare the winners! C'mon! Here we are now! Entertain us!

Square / Enix Leading the Way?

[fujiman]

Any company that is about to release version 13 (and then some) of a game is hardly qualified to lead the charge for innovation. Flame away, fanboys, I'm here all night :)

Re:Square / Enix Leading the Way?

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, it isn't the number of games created that matters; what matters is the number of games created in a given time frame. Take Grand Theft Auto for example, they have created:

Grand Theft Auto
Grand Theft Auto: 1969
Grand Theft Auto 2
Grand Theft Auto 3
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories

That is 8 titles in 8 to 10 years (I forget when the original was released). Square has produced 13 Final Fantasy titles in 18-20 years (once again I forget the year the first final Fantasy was released). Grand Theft Auto isn't the worst offender of the rehash market, but in many ways it is worse for it then Final Fantasy (in particular when you consider that many Final Fantasy games were never released in North America).

Re:Square / Enix Leading the Way?

[Reapman]

Not a Fanboy, but I do enjoy the series (is there a difference?) anyways.. although the games are all called Final Fantasy, it's not like the 13th game is about the same cast of characters like Star Trek, or even takes place in the same universe. There are simularities, but in all honesty most of the games could each be called completely different and still make sense. You don't need to play Final Fantasy 5 to understand Final Fantasy 6 for example. Unoriginal naming? yes very, but these are not sequals (excluding games like X-2)

Re:Square / Enix Leading the Way?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, you'd think Nintendo would put Mario on a long hiatus after so many sequels.

Re:Square / Enix Leading the Way?

[brkello]

I hope you get modded down...just for purposely posting flamebait. It would be like saying that you had some great, ground breaking ideas in the past...but since you have had those ideas, there won't be anything else good coming out of you, so might as well just fire you. It's fine if you don't like FF, but SE could still do a lot of innovative things. Just look at Nintendo. After all these years, they are still able to innovate. In fact, they innovate more than the newer companies in the market.

Re:Square / Enix Leading the Way?

[fujiman]

Well, I guess my attempt at humor didn't work. Anyway, I have nothing against FF. S/E are welcome to make as many FF/DQ games as they want... why not? People love them, and many folks would be disappointed if they went away.

I'm not saying S/E *can't* be innovative, I'm just saying their track record for innovation isn't there, in my opinion.

Re:Square / Enix Leading the Way?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, fuck off, fanboy. There is nothing innovative about the FF series. It's the same shit over and over and over again. Why do you think all the previews they show for every new FF game are of the cut-scenes and not the gameplay? You guessed it: because it's the same game you played last time. The only thing new is the improved graphics. Grandparent was spot-fucking-on.

And people are seriously over-hyping Nintendo's "innovativeness". There's no more innovation there than there is in every other game system that's been released. In fact, the only thing innovative Nintendo's ever really done is the virtual-boy. But that only goes to prove that innovative doesn't automatically mean "fun".

I predict that Nintendo's new controller will be nothing more than a gimmick and will fade away within a year as another failed idea. Nice try, but no cigar. And guess what, it's not even a new idea. I remember one of these things from the early 80's being marketed for the Commodore computers. I'm sure Nintendo's is a little more sophisticated, but it sure as hell isn't new.

And your childish suggestion of modding down the grandparent just because you don't agree with him is the main reason moderation on this board sucks. Even with meta-mod, there's just far too much abuse of the troll and flamebait mod to silence opposing viewpoints, no matter how much sense they might make. In fact, I'd argue that the more well-written a non-popular point of view is, the harder it gets modded down. Gotta stop the uprising, you know.

Re:Square / Enix Leading the Way?

[Molt]

If we're including all of the 'not-quite sequels' for GTA why not do so for Final Fantasy too? A quick peek at the list of Final Fantasy titles on Wikipedia reveals there've been a a lot more than the numbered series, most notably things such as FF X-2 and the FF VII prequel, not to mention things like Crystal Chronicles and FF:Tactics.

Rate of change in the game industry

[iota]

That the console video game industry must change is nothing new. In order to survive in the industry, game developers must have one skill more than any other, and that is the capacity to adapt to change. Fifteen years ago it was about getting the maximum value from the minimum number of sprites. A little over ten years ago programmers and artists needed to learn to make 3D models, animations, cameras, etc. very quickly in order to get the first generation of 3D games out the door. Since that time, "game designer" has become an accepted industry position and games are no longer designed on a whiteboard by the lead programmer and producer. And of course, network programming, multi-core programming, complex materials and shaders, etc. have all changed the way games are made.

"This is one of the reasons Square Enix will collaborate with Taito, a company that produces physical hardware," he said. "In our talks with Taito, ideas for an actual physical product have come up. In any case, we will be releasing some 'thing.' It's interesting in that it's not the sort of thing you expect from Square Enix."

The only real suggestion that's being made here is that the interface between the gamer and the game will change. But we've seen that happen as well. From the floor pad and the light gun to the eye toy and the Wii controller, the interface is being adapted all the time.

Certainly even integration with toys has been considered before - but it's often been rejected due to the expense and the low-profit margin for the developer (making an already niche application even more expensive.)

The real excitement now, I think, is that there are so many options at once for console games to connect with the other things. Games can potentially connect to cellphones via SMS (or even voice!); to the player while he's away using IM or email; post updates on blogs; control local bluetooth devices; or sync with handhelds and PDAs.

Yesterday developers needed to create the devices that changed how players interact with their games. Today these devices already exist in the hands of our players and what we need to do is find creative ways to take advange of that.

Re:Rate of change in the game industry

[AuMatar]

The real excitement now, I think, is that there are so many options at once for console games to connect with the other things. Games can potentially connect to cellphones via SMS (or even voice!); to the player while he's away using IM or email; post updates on blogs; control local bluetooth devices; or sync with handhelds and PDAs.

Yesterday developers needed to create the devices that changed how players interact with their games. Today these devices already exist in the hands of our players and what we need to do is find creative ways to take advange of that.

I see no excitement there. A game doesn't need any of those things. When I play a game, I sit down at my PC/console, start it up, play for an hour (or a few hours) then turn it off. There's no reason or advantage to it sending me emails, SMS, blogs, etc. If it needs to tell me something, it can pop up something in the HUD. And I sure as hell wouldn't want it calling or texting me and costing me money.

I mean really- when did any gamer ever go "Oooh, I want that game- it'll email me!". Back in reality, the one game that I know touted the feature got laughed out of the industry.

Re:Rate of change in the game industry

[jtwronski]

My first console was a coleco-vision that I had when I was about 5 years old. Since then, obviously, everything about gaming has changed. Graphics are "better" and in 3D now, the game worlds are enormous, and everything has become very complicated. Remember Super Mario 1? 8 worlds. I can beat that game in under 2 hours now, with the assistance of 20 years of practice :). Still one of the better games out there.

What I want to see is this: I want to be able to play the same game on multiple devices. Since SE is on topic today, I'll talk about FFXI, which I've been playing for about 2 years now. FFXI is huge. Its time consuming, and very complicated. I spend hours upon hours farming ingredients, then more hours crafting them into something I can use or sell. Then I gotta warp back to Jeuno, check Ye Olde Delivery Box for any cash, and refill the Auction House. Rinse and repeat.

I'd like to offload some of that onto a PSP. Hear that Sony? I'll buy a PSP, then buy another copy of FFXI for it, just so I can play parts of the same game mobile. Crafting is an obvious pastime that could be done anywhere, since it doesn't require any interatction with other players. Gardening and the soon-to-be-released chocobo raising lend itself well to that too. Perhaps fishing or choco-digging as well. Note that nothing here requires a psp, just makes the game more accessable, and possibly less tedious.

Technically, getting your PSP to sync up with your PS2 or PS3 doesn't look all that hard to me. There will be some issues with abuse (playing both at the same time, for instance) but those can be solved.

That's just one game. There are other, proabably better possibilities with other games, notably anything that isn't a MMOG.

Re:Rate of change in the game industry

[iota]

I see no excitement there. A game doesn't need any of those things. When I play a game, I sit down at my PC/console, start it up, play for an hour (or a few hours) then turn it off. There's no reason or advantage to it sending me emails, SMS, blogs, etc. If it needs to tell me something, it can pop up something in the HUD. And I sure as hell wouldn't want it calling or texting me and costing me money.

I understand your sentiment and a few years ago I would have wholeheartledly shared it. But I would have also thought that there was no market for millions of inane posts about someone's cat. Looking at today we can see advertisements for cellphones where the main selling point is integration with MySpace. Although people like yourself that want to keep the gaming experience "pure" (and by comparison there are plenty of folks who just "want a damn phone!") are important to developers, we do need to recognize this growing segment of people that want to connect up all their toys.

The closed game experience is not something that will go away - I hope that there will always be those types of games, and that you'll always be able to find something you like. The excitement comes from the new possibility of connecting the toys of the players that want them to be connected.

And, yes, some of this has been tried and has failed before. That doesn't mean that there is absolutely no way to make it work.

Re:Rate of change in the game industry

[Anonymous Coward]

If it's tedious, why are you doing it? Why do you want to do more of it? Getting a PSP game that allows you to do some solo side quests for game XP I could understand...

Re:Rate of change in the game industry

[jtwronski]

Hadn't thought about doing quests on the thing, but thats a good idea. AFAIK, every MMOG has its tedious points, and it'd be nice to get that out of the way when I'm not playing at home. Times such as my lunch hour when I'm completely bored. That'd leave me more time to enjoy the game with others while I'm at home, which is the part I enjoy the most. I'm sure there are other folks out there that feel the same way.

Re:Rate of change in the game industry

[Ginger Unicorn]

or better still, why not do those things in real life and earn some real money. i find it silly that people are happy to "grind" in a computer game for hours a day to build up some imaginary wealth, when they could be spending that time doing something real with a real reward.

not that i'm criticising, it just seems daft when you look at it objectively.

Re:Rate of change in the game industry

[geminidomino]

Crafting Alchemy in MMO: $15/month

Crafting Alchemy in meatspace: 10-25 years and loss of voting privelages.

there is no confirmation of episodic content

[aztektum]

the quote from LA immediately following the write-up says they haven't even made that decision yet.

TIE Fighter

[atomicstrawberry]

How about just making a remake of or sequel to TIE Fighter? It's still the best game Lucasarts have ever published. The exact same game with a few gameplay tweaks and a modern graphics engine would be an awesome experience. Add to that some good multiplayer and episodic content, and you'd have a sure seller.

That said, Lucasarts would probably try and contaminate it with prequel stuff.

Re:TIE Fighter

[CrazyJim1]

I liked the original X-Wing over TieFighter. In the X-Wing, you needed to balance shields, firing rate, and thrust. Every Tie Fighter except the last one had no shields which made the game play feel less complex.

Re:TIE Fighter

[atomicstrawberry]

The TIE Fighter, Bomber and Interceptor have no shields, yes. However you also spend a decent amount of time flying TIE Advanced and Assault Gunboats, and if you had the expansion, TIE Defender and Missile Boats. Those all had shields.

Besides, I'd argue that removing the shields made the game that much more challenging. And there's nothing quite like the feeling of blowing up rebel X-Wings in a TIE.

Next-gen Positioning?

[Anonymous Coward]

Next-gen Positioning?

You all know what a company's marketing guys mean when they talk about "positioning," right? It means "get the customer to stand in front of you. Now ask him to pick something up off the floor...."

And their first game is...

[master_p]

the Secret of the Robot Monkey MechaLand(TM)!

The adventure starts with Guybrush Threepwood finding himself in a mecha robot ready to do battle with LeChuck's robot!

What a game it would be! combining pirate adventuring with mecha warfare!

Re:And their first game is...

[pNutz]

And the only way to control the robot is with the LOOM!!!

Which you can only use when you have the Blue Vesper, which was eaten by the Chocobo in the attic of Dr. Fred's Mansion and guarded by Darth Vaderoth!!!! Wisecracks and apocolypse!!

Or, the most obvious

[LKM]

Your on-screen saber behaves like a real sword would, e.g. it remains where it would remain if you had hit something hard. As soon as you move your controller into a position which would be physically possible again, the on-screen saber snaps to that position.

The on-screen saber could also constantly move to the "nearest physically possible" position without moving through any on-screen objects while you move your controller through "impossible" positions.

Re:Or, the most obvious

[UbuntuDupe]

Your on-screen saber behaves like a real sword would, e.g. it remains where it would remain if you had hit something hard. As soon as you move your controller into a position which would be physically possible again, the on-screen saber snaps to that position.

Good point. That's a less finicky version of my 1).