New Super-sized Customer Database for Amazon?

dtjohnson writes "Amazon.com has applied for a patent to create an online customer database which would allegedly contain 'massive amounts of intimate information about its millions of shoppers, including their religion, sexual orientation, ethnicity and income.' From the article: "The database, which would combine information disclosed voluntarily by customers with facts gleaned from public databases, conceivably would give Amazon a larger or more detailed profile of its customers than any other retailer. Does this cross the privacy line or is it just reasonable data gathering to make retail sales more responsive to customer needs?"

Comments

Nice

[Vlad_the_Inhaler]

Amazon's pending patent, which would bar competitors from replicating the company's process for gathering information
Let me get that right: If I have nothing to do with Amazon then no-one else can do the same thing? Looks like a small price to pay.

Re:Nice

[tomhudson]

"Nothing (no one) will stop Amazon from sharing (selling) its data with other companies."

Actually, they better not try this with their Canadian partnerss, or they'll find the backlash to be vicious. Including expensive audits and damages paid to anyone whose info has been collected.

YOu're simply not allowed to collect and hold information that has nothing to do with the actual transactions with your customers. And you're not allowed to collect information, beyond name, address, and telephone number, for anyone who isn't a customer. "Data mining" and collecting for irrelevant stuff such as sexual orientation has been illegal up here since January of 2004.

Even information that was collected with yur consent can't be "re-used" for any other purpose.

Also, they have to supply anyone who asks with a copy of their file. Could be expensive and embarrassing for Amazon.

As for prior art, here in Canada HRDC (a gov't agency) did this - a HUGE database with all sorts of information - and was forced to drop it when 29,000 Quebecers sent in requests for their files in one week as a protest. Compliance costs $$$$.

If Amazon wants to lose their contract with Canada Post, let them go ahead with this.

It Certainly Does

[greatcelerystalk]

Of course it crosses a privacy line, for me at least. When I shop at Amazon.com, I generally know what I want to buy already, and I very rarely pay any attention at all to Amazon's recommendations. I think this is a case of Amazon trying to over-extend itself; I shop Amazon for the low prices and the hassle free shopping experience, but if they do begin asking for too much information, I will have to take my business elsewhere.

Re:It Certainly Does

[davevt5]

While there are many "techie" people like greatcelerystalk who know what they want, we have to keep in mind that Amazon is selling to the entire spectrum. My mom, new to computers this year, finds comfort in the Amazon experience. It's an entire shopping mall--just what women love (yes, I am generalizing). So shoppers who know what they are looking for, or are simply buying on price, may not use the recommendations, I would suspect that a significant, if not majority of the population may be enticed to buy something. I admit to having purchased several books that were recommended to me.

Now, the more significant issue revolves around the depth of the information Amazon is amassing on you and me. Sure, you can learn just as much about me from my blog or slashdot journal, but that's my choice. I recognize that Amazon has stated "opt-in" information. But when was the last time you read a EULA or the Privacy Policy page for NewEgg? You can be opted-in to just about anything. Then, personal private data is stored, waiting to be hacked into or. Or better yet, published in the name of research!

Ultimately, this trend will not stop. Twenty years ago, had people known the level of personal information that we would be storing today, they would have had the same reactionary quivering that we feel today. It's simply the unstoppable progression of technology integration into human life.

plenty of prior art

[irtza]

wait, I thought Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, Walmart, Credit card companies and the devil already built this database! Plenty of prior art.

I, for one

[kjones692]

...welcome our new, omniscient, Amazonian overlords.

Death by snu-snu!

Does this cross the privacy line ?

[unity100]

Yes it does.

Funny, but no

[Toba82]

The US government can infringe any patent - they just have to pay you when they do it. I guess Amazon is going to take over the world now. Oh well.

Re:Funny, but no

[Vlad_the_Inhaler]

Yes, but they also have to be able to collect the data. On past performance they would simply ask Amazon for it.

They already asked Yahoo and Google for the contents of their databases. Yahoo (and maybe some others) said Yes. I do not know if Amazon would go the same way - probably yes - but if I avoid them then this should mean that no-one else can pull that stunt.

If Amazon were to lay down cast iron guarantees that they would only use this patent defensively - they said they are some years away from implementing such a database - then I would take them off my blacklist.

Re:Funny, but no

[TubeSteak]

They already asked Yahoo and Google for the contents of their databases.

Amazon's A9 search engine used to be partnered up with Google, but they kicked 'em to the curb around May 2006 and brought Windows Live Search onboard as a replacement.

In context...

[eaglej]

Five years ago I might not have had a problem with a company trying to build a database like this. Free market - find what you will and whatnot. But unfortunately, I think any responsible company has to look at today's political climate, and consider the question: given an over-reaching, probably unconsitutional, and completely illegal, but well-enforced subpoena by the government, how much damage could our data do in the wrong hands? Are we prepared to fight such an action all the way to the supreme court if it comes to that? And what if the supreme court makes a corrupt decision? Sad, really.

Business Models...

[Capt James McCarthy]

The privacy issue aside, it is interesting to see how these companies are utilizing data mining to more accuratly predict a products 'success.' I mean will there come a day when a person creates the next widget and it can be determined within minutes that the widget will be best sold for $5.00 to maximize purchasers in the 18-35, married, hetro-sexual, non-christian, males, living within 12 miles of a large body of water, who rent a home, and own one vehicle. Then company 'A' can offer you X dollars for the widget patent based upon those numbers.

So going to write the open-source algorithm(s) for this?

Re:F Amazon!

[JazzLad]

Yes, stick it to the man. Buy items you have no interest in to mess with their database.

-
Don't blame me if your humour is insufficient.

Illegal.

[eddy]

Based only on the blurb, this database would almost certainly be completely illegal within the EU (Directive 95/46/EG, unless it's obsolete).

Re:Invasion of privacy

[grumbel]

Companies like Amazon can keep track of what you like, etc., without really knowing who you are.

As the recent AOL release of search queries has shown, anonymizing the user name to an random id doesn't really help a thing to keep the user identity anonymous, given a reasonable large amount of data, you can track the user based on its submitted queries.

The only real solution I see would be to forbit storage of personal data on server side and thus forcing Amazon and Co. to store it on the client side instead, so that the user is in control over what the other end knows about him and Amazon and Co. can't simply just store whatever the user submitted. This is the only way I see how the user could both stay anonymous (just delete client side data) as well as allow Amazon and Co. implement features based on users past actions.

In Germany this kind of Information is forbidden

[keyboardsamurai]

After Germany's experience during second World War, it became apparent that information about sexual orientation, religion, race and social ancestry are mostly used to do evil things. Hence in Germany there are laws that (in some circumstances) prohibit the use of such information.

In cases like this, there is no practical line.

[ankhcraft]

Wondering whether or not this crosses the line is, in fact, quite irrelevant. None of the data elements mentioned in the report were gathered illegally, and theoretically, could be available to any enterprising company. We need to stop expecting companies to be any more respecting of our privacy than we have previously asked them to be.

They're using data which was voluntarily given to them by customers, and data which is publicly available on the web. If you really expect a company to not use any of this type of information for marketing purposes, you're being exceptionally naive.

The information is available, is completely legal to use, and some of it was even voluntarily given directly to Amazon by it's customers. The only thing which could ever prevent anything like this from happening in a case like this or at least limit it's use, would be to pass new laws limiting the usage of such information. Or, just don't voluntarily give information to companies if you don't want them to use it to market to you.

No data gathering is reasonable

[Bryansix]

Case and Point: Those stupid cards you have to carry just to have the privalege of paying the normal price on goods at supermarkets. I go to Albertsons and up until a year ago they did not have one of these stupid cards. Then the actress who plays Raymond's wife on "Everybody Loves Raymond" comes on my TV to announce the "good news" that Albertson's is getting a club card. If she was standing in front of me when she announced that I would have punched her right in the nose. Why is it good news that I have to carry another silly useless card in my wallet or on my keychain just to be able to pay the normal prices. And for what? So Albertsons can collect demographic information on me? No thanks!

Re:Most of Slashdot readers

[Foobar of Borg]

The rest of the world should expect a far better shopping experience from Amazon because they are going to know when to pitch the gay-pride book vs. the religious tome.

What about people who read both? Seriously, why is there this assumption that owning and reading a book somehow means you believe and accept the ideas presented therein? Some people actually like to read around and get a deep understanding of a lot of different ideas. Even if you disagree with something, you should at least understand it well instead of relying on propaganda.

Which brings me to my next point...

We might have a 20 year pause before the patent expires.

It's not a patent, it is only an application, so there is nothing that has to expire. This rather obvious concept has been explained a bazillion times on Slashdot, but almost no one posting under this article seems to understand it. You can apply for any stupid damn thing you want. Even, say, a resurrection burial tomb .

What I think would make for a great Backslash section is revisitting these old applications that give Slashdotters apoplectic fits. See if a patent is granted or if it is ultimately is abandoned. If it is granted, see how narrow or how broad the actual patent protection is. Then, there would be more informed bitching and complaining than the usual infantile "P@+3n+s are teh suxx0rs! W00+! W00+!"