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OLGA Shut Down by DMCA (again!)

Gavitron writes "The online Guitar Tablature Archive OLGA.net has been shutdown again, to "ensure that composers and songwriters will continue to have incentive to create new music for generations to come." Scant details exist, but there is more information in forums and blogs."

20 of 449 comments (clear)

  1. Wait a minute... by macthulhu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Let me get this straight... somehow showing somebody how to play a song will prevent people from writing new songs? I'm sorry, Logic has just stuffed it's head so far up it's own ass that it disappeared.

    --

    Someday a real rain is gonna come...

    1. Re:Wait a minute... by Exocrist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When I started to learn to play guitar, I started by learning how to play my favorite songs (new and old) from tab sites like OLGA. I think if anything, shutting down a site like this removes incentive for "musicians and songwriters" to make their music, since there will be fewer people willing to pay for lessons, or invest the time to learn how to figure songs out by ear and then notate the songs to paper (or simply in the head), and thus there will be fewer musicians making music. You have to start somewhere, and if they take away this kind of learning device, fewer people will be learning.

      I also think they're just trying to get more people to buy their tabulature books, which are often full of mistakes.

  2. Music has been passed down for generations by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Without somewhere to get the pass on the music it will be lost.

    I would feel great pride if I were a composer having my tune played around the world by people, its like having your code used all around.
    Its not like knowing the chords will give anybody an advantage to become an international star, and I doubt it would lost anyone money.

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
    1. Re:Music has been passed down for generations by schon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Without somewhere to get the pass on the music it will be lost.

      Yes, exactly. That's why they're doing this.

      If they don't clamp down on public memory, then they can't sell the same crap 20 years from now and call it new.

  3. Fucking 1984 speak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Continue to have incentive blah blah blah... What is this bullshit? Quit spinning the reasons. You think the website hurts sales, so you want to shut it down. Fine. JUST SAY IT THAT WAY.

    In my opinion, the creepiest part of 1984 (go reread it) is that language is being dumbed down so as to control modes of thought. The Big Brother ideal is that in 50 years people are too stupid to remember complicated concepts, since the simplified language no longer allows for them to be formed. It's why I want to shoot anybody who actually buys this sort of phrasing, such as what the RIAA is giving us.

    Thanks corporate America, for trying to make us all that much dumber.

    1. Re:Fucking 1984 speak by jbssm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hummm, let me see:

      Real Sentence vs Bush Sentence:
      Global Warming vs Global Climate Changes
      War Against Middle East vs War on Terror
      Palestine vs Middle East

      If you check around, not only the media already adopted these political correct terms, but even the normal people did it ... in fact even the geeks do it all the time now.

      I clearly remember some years ago, you would always see the words Global Warming and Palestine ... it's frightening to see that in so little time the changed the way people refer to the events in a way that they become clearly more forgiving to the politicians and they don't transmit the really dimension of the facts.

      But perhaps it's just me, perhaps I'm dreaming ... are we fighting against the Eurasia or Eastasia now ? ... this morning in the news it said we are fighting against Eastasia in fact that we were always fighting against Eastasia and that Eurasia is our eternal ally, but I remember that in yesterday newspaper it said that we were fighting against Eurasia.

      Perhaps I'm crazy ... perhaps the chocolate ration really increased since last week.

  4. I don't get it... by Pedrito · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've never understood how they can make guitar tableture a copyright violation when you have a gazillion sites out there posting lyrics. How is that any different? The tableture is someone's interpretation of what the artists are doing on the guitar or bass. From experience, I can say for a fact that it's rarely entirely accurate, so it's not really a copyright violation. It's artistic interpretation. Lyrics are far more likely to be accurate and therefore far more likely to actually violate copyrights. Still, I don't really think that either should be a violation.

    Besides, this is just as likely to help the RIAA as any of their other foot shooting methods. I mean, how much can you piss off your customer base before they simply stop being your customer base?

    1. Re:I don't get it... by Capt'n+Hector · · Score: 4, Insightful

      With classical music, you can listen to a CD or performance of a work, then "reverse engineer" it to produce the sheet music. Alternatively, if you can get your hands on the original manuscript, then you can copy directly from the source (if the copyright has expired.) In short: You have just as much right to produce sheet music for Beethoven as the current crop of companies do. However, these companies do go to considerable lengths to produce a quality product: extensive research goes into investigating the various versions of the manuscript, typos and errors on the part of the composer/transcriber/whatever are weeded out, and often fingerings/bowings are inserted by famous musicians through exclusive contracts.

      For works produced before ~1950 (or whatever it is now...), the only thing that's copyrighted is the version produced by the sheetmusic company. Think of it like a map: the actual geography isn't copyrighted, only the representation of it on the page. You're free to go out and make a map of your own, just don't use the original map as a reference.

      For more recent works, the issue is more sticky. I suppose it all depends on the composer. For instance, some demand written permission to perform the work (this is usually ignored by all but the most visible/famous orchestras.) In other cases, anyone might be free to perform the work, as long as the sheetmusic has been bought and paid for (some composers contract out sheetmusic production to some company, and then get royalties/kickbacks when that sheetmusic is sold.)

      Regardless, it's not as cut-and-dry as you might think. There are several "layers" to a piece of music: the original manuscript, the sheet music (including bowings/fingerings if any), the actual sound produced by some performance of the work, an individual recording of the work, and perhaps on a more metaphysical level, the actual note progressions themselves. (That is, if I were to go out and write a piece that was based on Shostakovich's "DSCH" signature progression, is that copyright violation?)

      As for the topic at hand, these guitar tabuletures are synonymous with fingerings/bowings. This is not sheet music, because it doesn't include the instrument-indepent staff. In the case of violin/viola/cello/etc. music, fingerings/bowings without the staff is almost useless. Who could claim foul if I copied the fingerings from the latest rendition of a classical work still under copyright? The performer or the composer?

      There is no exact answer to this, which I suppose makes it the perfect ground for lawyers. Welcome to copyright hell...

      --
      Quid festinatio swallonis est aetherfuga inonusti?
      Africus aut Europaeus?
  5. Re:So what exactly is wrong with amateur tabs? by jmv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What the hell are they afraid of?

    That they won't be able to sell you the same tune for an Nth time in the form of an "official" (and often crappy) guitar translation.

  6. Too bad for amateurs, but I understand the concern by pbooktebo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that the online tab revolution has been wonderful for amateur musicians all over the world (of course, especially guitarists). I've used the tabs, and I think that it is possible to make the case that this is often a fair use of copyright (though, often, not).

    That said, I can understand the music industry has concerns like these:
    1. They do sell sheet music, and this practice cuts into their profits. I'm guessing that some revenue-sharing model could work, but that the RIAA/BMG/etc. aren't (yet) interested. In fact, I have actually seen some bands distribute their own tabs (or tabs contributed by fans), which I think is a fantastic idea.
    2. The quality of most tab is fair to poor. I teach music and guitar, and I always end up correcting tabs (even chords) for students. On some level, this is OK, but the chunky and too-often incorrect chords can really make a tune sound much worse than it is. If I were an artist and thought everyone was learning some ham-handed version of my tune, I'd probably be a bit pissed.
    3. In this copyright-dominated world, it does seem that you risk losing your rights if you don't defend them.

    I wish it weren't so. I'm a big fan of Lawrence Lessig, and believe that the stifling of things like OLGA make us less creative as a culture. I also love that there are still amateur musicians out there who want to play music for themselves and their friends for the pleasure of making muisic. I hope a good compromise or capitulation (on part of the music industry) is in the works.

  7. Re:Should all copying be considered infringement? by suprchunk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The "copyrighted" material you are referring to is not as blatant as you so quickly assumed. It is people who think what they are writing down what they are hearing correctly. It is usually pretty close, but they are not the original artists so they do not actually know if it is 100% exact. But you seem to think they are getting the sheet music from the artists and posting exact copies. That is usually never the case with tabs posted online. If you would look at some of the sites instead of assuming, you would see how many different versions of the same tab exist. I don't think the artist wrote that many versions that seem to differ from each other, sometimes vastly. But you do. It is akin to someone retelling a story, by your standards. So any book synopsis should never be printed except by the publisher because you are infringing on someone's copyright by trying to convey what happened in a book.

  8. The RIAA aren't the culprits- this time. by gottagetmac · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This cease and desist had nothing to do with the RIAA- it was brought by the NMPA and the MPA (if you read the letter). These organizations publish sheet music, not music. They could care less about the popularity of the music itself, and only care about their own sales, which probably are hurt by the availability of tab.

  9. They sell at about $5 per song.... by Kunta+Kinte · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Part of the reason RIAA is going after the free music databases is that they would like to sell you the sheet music for about $5 per song. Checkout MusicNotes. In fact I've seen songs for more than $10 bucks on there, depending on the format.

    I never got tabs, they're often incorrect and missing a lot of information. But there is no way guitarist are going to spend $5 per song for sheet music en masse. Personally, I prefer buying books of non-RIAA songs.

    They saw that legal online music only took off after iTunes started selling music for $1...

    PS. Does anyone know of an online database of public-domain MusicXML sheet music?

    --
    Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
  10. Not 'apparent' at all by kripkenstein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, OLGA has (apparently) broken the law.

    No, this is not apparent at all. The site owner of Olga says so, and I agree with him completely.

    Olga (and similar sites) do not publish recordings of songs, which is a clear copyright violation. Nor do they publish lyrics (although they do sometimes). They primarily publish tab files (tabulature), which are specifications of where to place your fingers on a guitar (not even notes), and chord files, which are lists of chords. Now, to see how ridiculous the 'copyright' claim is, consider the case of chord files.

    A typical chord file contains something like "G D Em C" - which are all the chords you need to play for quite a lot of rock/pop songs (up to modulation to a different key). A lot of others are covered by "G D C" (even simpler). There are only 6 basic chords on the guitar (in a specific key). Most songs use only a few of those (except for people like e.g. David Bowie, who uses dozens of chords in some songs). Basically, to claim copyright violation here, is to claim that "G D C" is copyrighted. But by which of the 1,000,000 songs that use it? It isn't unique in any way (unlike, say, lyrics or mp3s). Chord files (usually) only contain names of chords, not rythym or anything else. They are brief and nonunique in the extreme. To claim copyright violation would be amusing if it weren't sad.

    The case of tab files is different, as these can be fairly specific to a song. However, even here it is far from clear that a copyright violation is being committed. A perfect, note-for-note transcription may seem to be an obvious copyright violation, but 99% of tabs are far from that. They are more like a guess or an interpretation of the song (for example, in nearly all cases they contain only notes, not durations of notes - and again, not even notes, but positions on the guitar).

    As a guitar player who has enjoyed Olga for many years, this (repeat) development is sad, and I believe unjustified.

  11. Lennon's rolling in his grave by FhnuZoag · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Right. What his 'representatives' are doing with his music seems to be the very antithesis of his philosophy. Indeed, recall the lyrics to Imagine:


    Imagine no possessions,
    I wonder if you can,
    No need for greed or hunger,
    A brotherhood of man,
    Imagine all the people
    Sharing all the world...
  12. If money is your incentive... by mushadv · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...then you shouldn't be making music.

  13. Legal Failure corrected by Innovation and Market by aqui · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I see this as much more of a symptom of the perversion of the legal
    system by the special interests of corporations (and their lawyers).

    Unfortunately justice is still out of reach for many of us, and I
    think the number of people who cannot afford to go to court is growing.
    Corporations take advantage of their wealth and this financial imbalance.

    Corporations in their short sightedness rather than competing through
    innovation and invention seek to compete by controlling the market by
    suppressing competition where possible.

    Copyright and Patent laws were originally created to prevent this and
    strike a balance between the rights of the user and the creator. The idea
    was to create a functioning market where innovation is encouraged and
    sufficiently rewarded, while retaining open competition and consumer choice.

    Copyright and IP law is particularly vulnerable since its complexity and
    the need to seek a balance between content users and content providers
    makes easy to pervert. That combined with the general lack of knowledge
    about copyright law and fair use and a systematic public campaign by the
    content industry to confuse the issue, has lead to the current situation.

    It is disappointing that judges, lawyers and politicians (the guardians of
    our legal system) have failed to protect our legal system from growing
    greed and corruption.

    Despite all this the content industry middlemen (RIAA etc...) will lose.
    The reasons are simple:
    1) A new medium, the internet allows anyone to connect with customers.
    2) A number of users are no longer interested in working with
    the content industry middlemen.
    3) A large number of users are willing to share their content for free.

    This is creating a large pool of accessible content that the content industry
    middlemen do not own or control in anyway. As this pool grows which it inevitably will
    the very content "protection" laws lobbied for by the record industry will
    protect the rights of the creators of this music. Since the creators have
    the right to distribute their content under any licensing scheme that they
    see fit (eg. creative commons) they can distribute it for free.

    Consumers faced with the choice of easy free to use accessible content and the
    choice of copy protected digitally managed "official" industry content
    will simply vote with their feet.

    These sorts of legal challenges just help create a hostile climate for traditional
    industry content users and will hasten the decline of the traditional content industry
    as these consumers move on.

    These are the violent thrashes of a dying beast...
    (which unfortunately will take time and cause much damage).

    We've seen it with software... and we'll see it again...

    --
    ----- "Profanity is the one language that all programmers understand."
  14. Re:Why? by hesiod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > Playing by ear is the only method, lazy pricks.

    Playing by ear is the lazy way to do it. It's mimicry. Learning how to read music, and understanding musical theory, is the correct way to learn music.

  15. Re:Terrible! by some+guy+on+slashdot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Given that copyright was intended to give artists incentive to continue creating music (which is the grandparent's point, and also happens to be true), how does the Lennon estate justify its privilege to hold the rights to John's work? How are they furthering the cause of encouraging new music creation?

    For thousands of years, we had no IP laws. Minstrels, musicians, writers and poets copied from one another and competed for the resulting ubiquity of their works. Hundreds of thousands of books were thus preserved, until they were intentionally destroyed at Alexandria.

    My family gets together with several other families every year for a big Easter weekend camp out, and Saturday night is always dedicated to a campfire sing-along. This year, one of my cousins brought a huge compilation of Beatles arrangements (fully licensed) to the sing along. There was only one book, but somehow everyone around the fire knew the songs. We'd all heard them from our parents' album collections. Some of us remembered a now-defunct all-Beatles radio station that played strong for one summer and then shut down because it was unprofitable. Some of us even remember singing "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" or the Money Can't Buy Me Love Madrigal in choir. Considering the Beatles haven't been heavily advertised since Anthology, which was almost 10 years ago, I'd say that was pretty damn good. Estates and commercialism aside, the Beatles wrote and performed some amazing music. If all the IP laws in the world disappeared tomorrow, their music would not be forgotten. So what is the function of the Lennon estate again?

  16. Your ass called, and it wants its wrong info back. by teamhasnoi · · Score: 3, Insightful
    As other posters have commented, there is *no* venue that requires sheet music. In fact, they could give a rats ass if you know how to read it, learned it from a yeti in the mountains or was given the knowledge divinely.

    Most venues would be overjoyed if they could play the radio, have bands, and have a jukebox without paying ASCAP or BMI. It's an expense, and I've seen a few venues that don't pay it. When pressed, they say, "Why should I have to pay to play the radio? It's free in my car and in my home!"

    So, you're wrong. So wrong in fact, that you could be right - if you were talking about 60 years ago, or an orchestra, but we're talking about TAB and chords, guitar and popular songs. Single note playing intruments in orchestras use music written for the instrument they play - and are not required to own, purchase, or otherwise HAVE sheet music by any! venue. (Maybe a bandleader who's a copyright nazi or a published composer whose music is being played might require it, but those days are fading fast - if not gone already!)

    So, please. Either get back in your time machine and join us in the present, pick up a manual on what the hell is going on in the real world, or shutty.