Slashdot Mirror


Poincare Conjecture Proof Completed

Flamerule writes "A New York Times article has finally provided an update on the status of Grigori Perelman's 2003 rough proof of the Poincaré Conjecture. 3 years ago, Perelman published several papers online explaining his idea for proving the conjecture, but after giving lectures at MIT and several other schools (covered on Slashdot) he returned to Russia, where he's remained silent since. Now, mathematicians in the US and elsewhere have finally finished going over his work and have produced several papers, totaling 1000 pages, that give step-by-step, complete proofs of the conjecture. In addition to winning some or all of the $1,000,000 Millennium Prize, Perelman now seems to be the favorite to receive a Fields Medal at the International Mathematics Union meeting next week, but it's not clear that he'll even show up!"

23 of 222 comments (clear)

  1. A rabbit is a donut, not a sphere. by Vellmont · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What kind of strange rabbits have these topologists seen? The rabbits I've seen have a hole from end to end through them called the digestive tract.

    --
    AccountKiller
  2. High Mips, Low I/O by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Most of the freaky genius mathematicians who can do the really wierd stuff are usually (but not always) high MIPS, low I/O types anyway. Spend a week coming up with a partial proof of one percent of a subproof for a much larger problem, no problem. Contemplate going out of the house for bread and milk. See if you can get it delivered, or maybe get someone else to do it (you know, someone you know, someone you won't have to talk to very long...)

    1. Re:High Mips, Low I/O by Ruie · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Nothing freaky about it. IO is often the bottleneck, minimizing it is just good common sense.

      Next time you are in a meeting think about this..

  3. The tone of the summary is typical by blueZ3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The incredulity that this mathematician might have been more interested in the challenge of the work than fame and fortune in the Western world practically oozes from each sentence.

    I'm all for capitalism and the idea of "prizes" to encourage research, but have we really become so jaded that it's a complete shock when someone does something worthwhile merely for its own sake? Perhaps he's gone on to other challenges, or he's wrapped up in some research that has his complete attention. Heck, perhaps he just enjoys math for its own sake and doesn't want to deal with all the side-effects of notoriety.

    --
    Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
    1. Re:The tone of the summary is typical by smallpaul · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm all for capitalism and the idea of "prizes" to encourage research, but have we really become so jaded that it's a complete shock when someone does something worthwhile merely for its own sake?

      It isn't a shock that he did it for its own sake at all. Look at the thousands of open source programmers. The shock is that he's been given a million dollars and seem uninterested. Linus Torvalds does Linux for its own sake but if someone gave him a million dollars, he'd take it. Even someone who is not materialistic might think: "hmmm. A million dollars might help many Russian orphans or deliver AIDS drugs to Africans or ..." It is strange for a single person to be neither greedy, nor ambitious nor altruistic ... merely obsessed.

      Yes, that's strange. It's rare and therefore strange.

    2. Re:The tone of the summary is typical by aiken_d · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Oddly enough, people tend to form their expectations based on past experiences. Is it so unreasonable for the tone of the article to be incredulous when the situation is unprecedented?

      Where you see value judgments and a jaded reporter, I see a pretty reasonable surprise. I don't see anything in the article where the reporter suggests that Perelman "should" do anything other than what he is. Surprise, and remarking on an unusual behavior, is *not* approbation.

      -b

      --
      If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
    3. Re:The tone of the summary is typical by eddy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think that never is this more amply examplified than when the people who manage 'rights holders' "explain" how, if it weren't for copyright, there would exist no art.

      --
      Belief is the currency of delusion.
    4. Re:The tone of the summary is typical by Thisfox · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sadly, yes, doing something for it's own sake rather than for monetary gain is frowned apon, and sometimes viewed with fear and confusion, not that I'm saying this review goes THAT far (if you don't believe me, try smiling at someone while in a subway one of these days: the person will generally check that you haven't got someone stealing their wallet while they are distracted. Or busk without a hat out: no one realises that an orchestral musician might just enjoy playing music in the sun in winter, and they search madly for a way to throw a coin into my closed music case). Perhaps he sees the money as a complication rather than a useful item: instead of assuming he could donate it, there would be all the trouble of getting the money into his country, bank balances, taxes, and more questions and papers to fill out to get it donated, and all the rest of it. All of which is time he could have been spending on solving another interesting question, or gathering mushrooms, or whatever. Coming into a fortune is not always fortunate.

    5. Re:The tone of the summary is typical by zen-theorist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the submitter seems to have misplaced the incredulity. the important thing is that other mathematicians are amazed that someone would throw around important parts of the proof, not wait for credit and leave it to others to write it up. then again, knowing perelman they are not incredulous.

      in mathematics, the trend has mostly been to keep the insights of a big result under wraps until the proof is written down properly and checked for bugs. that is the way to get yourself into the hall of fame. it is almost certain among mathematicians that fame is valued far more than money. money gets you graduate students, but mathematicians mostly think by themselves. fame gets you a theorem, or better yet, a chapter in the textbooks 400 years from now.

    6. Re:The tone of the summary is typical by smallpaul · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sadly, yes, doing something for it's own sake rather than for monetary gain is frowned apon

      That is not correct. Look at the hoopla around both Gates and Buffett giving way their money. Look at the adoration of Mother Teresa. Look at the army of fans for Linus Torvalds and Richard Stallman.

      and sometimes viewed with fear and confusion,

      Sure: anything out of the ordinary will engender fear and confusion. There is a difference between suspecting that someone MAY NOT BE altrustic and "frowning upon" them for BEING altrusistic. The former is quite common. The latter is pretty rare. When is the last time you saw an editorial of the form: "Why the Salvation Army MUST BE STOPPED from giving away soup."

  4. Recognition = Worry by BoRegardless · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Perelman now seems to be the favorite to receive a Fields Medal at the International Mathematics Union meeting next week, but it's not clear that he'll even show up!"

    The curse of the gifted is that niggling worry in the back of the mind that if one accepts praise, one may lose his focus, drive or muse, if you will.

  5. Re:TFA is well worth reading by OldManAndTheC++ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Side note: the Millenium Prize is a cool million. Which is $24 million less than Adam Sandler makes per movie.

    Hurray for the free market! The true value for a personal accomplishment has once again been properly determined and awarded!

    --
    Soylent Green is peoplicious!
  6. The prize is important by ucaledek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think the greatness of the prize isn't the mercenary value people seem to think it holds. The money just shows importance. The prize's value comes from the dialogue and new paths of discovery that are opened up. Remember that in the end Fermat's last theorem (proof of which is what prompted this, at least in part) wasn't important in its result. It was important because the search for a proof resulted in huge new areas of research that are much more fruitful both in the purely abstract mathematical sense and in the practical sense. The fruits of that labor wouldn't have come out without placing such emphasis on the problem. Hilbert's lecture at the beginning of the 20th century was similar. Here was (one of the best minds at the time propising a framework in which to work, goals to look towards. Not even close to all of them have been resolved, but they are smart problems that have led to all sorts of applications and results. It's a goal to work towards. The Clay prize does the same thing. Is the Navier Stokes problem that important? Yes, that's why we have this great initiative for a derivation of classic and not weak solutions, or at least existence. The quest for the solution to the problems and those like it have created real progress. Without this kind of framework, we'd possibly not have the amazing work in PDEs and weak solutions that let us do great composite designs and image processing (to name two areas).

  7. name change? by bark · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Now that the conjecture is proved, do they change the name to "theory"? Or does the name stay put because that's what everyone knows and refers to it as?

  8. Re:I remain skeptical by spuzzzzzzz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First of all, I highly doubt that all of those 1000 pages are devoted to solving the Poincare Conjecture. Perelman, if I remember correctly, studies Ricci curvature flows which is a large area of mathematics in its own right. In the course of his research, he discovered some things that led to this proof of the Poincare Conjecture. I would expect that the 1000 pages referred to by this article deal with many different consequences of Perelman's work. Mathematicians like to do things in full generality, so they would have studied broader consequences instead of focussing for so long on only one result.

    Secondly, I would invite you to write down a complete proof of some well-known mathematical fact, the Stone-Weierstrass theorem say. You must prove this from first principles, starting with axiomatic set theory. I would be very surprised if you even managed to finish and even more surprised if the proof came in at under 1000 pages. This highlights what was mentioned by a sibling of mine: mathematics is divided into small steps and you would never dream of trying to prove something all at once.

    Thirdly, this is the first ever proof of the Poincare conjecture. It is quite common in mathematics that a nicer proof of a known fact will be found.

    --

    Don't you hate meta-sigs?
  9. Re:Grigori Perelman, please give us a sign! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The USA, instead, is not subject to problems of abuse of the legal system, as the case of Dmitry Sklyarov demonstrated.

  10. Re:TFA is well worth reading by Ibanez · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You know...I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but you shouldn't because you're actually correct.

    Want to make a lot of money, do something the generates a lot of money. I can understand your point of view, but get real...

  11. Re:TFA is well worth reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Fair enough -- if making stupid people laugh is considered more important by society than fundamental mathematical discoveries, then it should be more highly compensated. It is. What's your problem with that?

    (And BTW mods, how the f*ck is that "insightful" in any way?)

  12. Re:Grigori Perelman, please give us a sign! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    but at least on the positive side he'll have access to great health-care, low-crime, respectful co-citizens and one of the highest standards of living on the planet

  13. On the contrary... by moly · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A Scottish physicist two centuries ago sees a strange bump-like waveform in a canal. It persists for over three miles, moving at nearly constant speed along the canal trench. He writes a paper, calling it a soliton wave and two Dutch mathematicians find a nonlinear partial differential equation that describes its motion. The equation, the Korteweg-De Vries Equation, proves fiendishly hard to solve. Finally, the crew working on the hydrogen bomb, finish the job early, so Ulam decides to use ENIAC to help him solve the Korteweg-De Vries Equation. He attains the first analytic solutions, and the study of soliton waves begins in earnest.

    How does this earn a quid? Well, solitons model the way that blips of light move down a fiber-optic cable. The military decides that DARPA-net could run on fiber-optic cables, and uses them in building the early internet. Cellular telephone companies begin using fiber-optic cables to pack 100,000 phone conversations into a single pipe in such a way that they all get separated on the other end of the pipe-- one of the great engineering marvels of our time. We owe the modern internet, cell phones, anything that uses fiber-optics, to the solution of the Korteweg-De Vries equation. There was a similar burst of technology earlier in the last century when some closed-form solutions of the Schrödinger Equation were found.

    Truth is, when we solve a major math problem like the Poincaré conjecture, billions of dollars of revenue are generated by new technologies that spring into being because of the new scientific understanding that the solution affords us. A thousand Adam Sandlers will not generate the amount of capital that the solution of the Poincaré conjecture will generate, especially considering that Perelman has shown the world that the Millenium Prize Problems are actually solvable.

    --
    "Indeed, it is wise never to consider any form of electronic data as final." --Arnold Robbins
  14. Re:Square Pegs in Round Holes by ThePhilips · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nothing extraordinary really. In USSR, mathematics (as well physics) was just one of the top prioritized subjects. As one of my german friends compared me and his son, we soviet pupils have had about twice more mathematics during our school times.

    Mathematics is not about numbers and problems - it teaches brain to think. Nothing more.

    --
    All hope abandon ye who enter here.
  15. Re:TFA is well worth reading by theLOUDroom · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Want to make a lot of money, do something the generates a lot of money. I can understand your point of view, but get real...

    Innovation in math and science generates more money than any movie.
    Consider something obviously fundamental to the way we live, like calculus or Fourier transforms.

    It is very foolish to think that the direct and immediate monetary rewards a person receives are any real inidcation of the value their work provides to society.

    --
    Life is too short to proofread.
  16. Re:TFA is well worth reading by AxelBoldt · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Sandler's crappy movies are a cheap way for me to kill an hour or two
    Why would you ever want to kill an hour or two of your life? Hours of life, that's all you've got. Nothing else. And not very many of them.