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Croatia Adopts Open Source Policy

lisah writes "Croatia says that concerns over the expense and limitations of proprietary software led to last month's decision to adopt a free and open source software policy within Croatia's government. Officials say the move will make the government's work more transparent as well as help to better manage its operating costs. Taking it a step further, under the new policy the government will also support the use of open source in schools, saying, 'both closed and open source solutions will be equally presented to students.' Vlatko Kosturjak, president of the Croatian Linux User Group, is unmoved. Citing the practical and technical difficulties of embracing open source on such a broad scale, he says until the policy is actually implemented, '[it] is just like an unsent letter.'"

22 of 99 comments (clear)

  1. We now have armies of our Croats by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...Beautiful place, Croatia, and some smart people from the area. Think Nikola Tesla (a real border-spanner) and all those lovely cool rivers for Penguins to swim in.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    1. Re:We now have armies of our Croats by Lord+Prox · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'm glad to see Croatia doing well afer the Yugo breakup in '91. Choosing Open Source leads me to think that the folks in charge there are awake and looking to keep things efficent and Open. Open Source, Open Society.

      ps... if he people in Croatia have any extra politicians available I would like to borrow 1 or 2 (dozen) for a few years. Rent or lease options possible.

      Sincerely
      An American.

    2. Re:We now have armies of our Croats by cozziewozzie · · Score: 2, Funny

      ps... if he people in Croatia have any extra politicians available I would like to borrow 1 or 2 (dozen) for a few years. Rent or lease options possible.

      Trust me man, no you wouldn't. Really.

      Sincerely,
      A Croatian :D

    3. Re:We now have armies of our Croats by cozziewozzie · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nikola Tesla was not Serbian. He was a Serb. From Croatia. So both the Croats and Serbs make a claim on him, which is fine. Like when an ethnically Chinese person born in the US makes a great discovery, both the Chinese and Americans feel proud.

      Don't get ethnicity (Serb, Croat) mixed up with nationality (Serbian, Croatian). Tesla himself said that he was proud both of his Serb ancestry and Croatian homeland. The area where he was born has never been a part of Serbia.

    4. Re:We now have armies of our Croats by jpop32 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think since croatia was a later invention
      that effectively Tesla was clearly serb.


      If Croatia is a 'later invention', being for the first time recognised as an independent kingdom in year 925 (not 1925, mind you!), then I guess the US is to come into existance over the next few centuries? Sure, the Greeks were there a couple thousand or so years earlier, but still... :-)

      As a greek i can assure you that "nationality" is the latin translation of the greek oriented word "ethnicity"
      (ethnos = nation).


      So, everyone in the US is an American and that's it? There are no irish americans, no polish americans, no jewish americans? Croat (being of croatian ethnicity) and Croatian (being of croatian citizenship) are obviously different things. Tesla was a croatian Serb, a very clearly defined term.

      Damn why these croats struggle so hard to look different than serbs....

      For the same reason Macedonians struggle hard to look different than Greeks:
      unfortunate historical reasons. :-)

      But, this is not the best venue for this kind of discussions, so let's leave it at that.

      Guys admit, you speak the SAME language, you live in the SAME land,
      and you will have to work very hard to become something else than you trully are.


      Well, we speak the same language and live in the same land in as much as Danes, Swedes and Norwegians do. Do you consider them a single nation?

      And, now, we return you to our regular flavor of zealotry...

    5. Re:We now have armies of our Croats by cozziewozzie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think since croatia was a later invention

      I think you need a history lesson.

      that effectively Tesla was clearly serb.

      Tesla was clearly a Serb. A Serb from Croatia. Just like a Turk from Germany is not from Turkey.

      I'll give you an example: Fatih Yakin is a famous German Turk film director. Germans AND Turks are both proud of his movies.

      As a greek i can assure you that "nationality" is the latin translation of the greek oriented word "ethnicity"
      (ethnos = nation).


      This is irrelevant, since both ethnicity and nation are very well defined terms in other languages, including English, which we are using for discussion here. Tesla was a Serb, born and raised in a place which has been known as Croatia for at least a thousand years. You're the only one who has a problem with this concept. He is a Croatian Serb, and as I wrote before, it's perfectly OK for both Croats and Serbs to claim him and feel proud about him.

      Damn why these croats struggle so hard to look different than serbs....

      Guys admit, you speak the SAME language, you live in the SAME land,
      and you will have to work very hard to become something else than you trully are.

      Same goes to (supposedly) muslim bosnians.


      Why do you try so hard to look different from Turks.... You look the same, live in the same land......

  2. Confirmation by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Funny

    The governments' mum confirmed it has lost its job and is moving back into the basement.

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  3. wrong guy? by User+956 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Vlatko Kosturjak, president of the Croatian Linux User Group, is unmoved. Citing the practical and technical difficulties of embracing open source on such a broad scale

    You sure this guy isn't the president of the Croatian Microsoft User Group?

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:wrong guy? by NineNine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wow. I guess that not every Linux user in Croatia is a shrill, unrealistic, idealistic, zealot!

    2. Re:wrong guy? by cozziewozzie · · Score: 3, Informative

      You sure this guy isn't the president of the Croatian Microsoft User Group?

      Vlatko Kosturjak is a good guy, and he has been instrumental in maintaining a high profile for Linux and FLOSS in Croatia in the last 10 years. He has also administered the Croatian LUG website for years, helped organise numerous talks by OSS/Free Software speakers, install fests, and worked on translations. In fact, the work that HULK has done on promoting FLOSS in Croatia (including complete translations of OpenOffice, KDE, GNOME and Fedora into Croatian), despite their low activity levels is amazing. So don't jump to conclusions.

      He is simply skeptical that this is the ultimate victory for us just yet. There are real issues in getting FLOSS implemented on a large scale, especially when Windows is as entrenched as it is in Croatia, and where shady dealings secure deals for big companies far too often.

      When we see FLOSS deployed at a large scale in Croatia, we can open the champagne. Until then, it's just a blurb from a politician, possibly trying to get a better price from MS. It's not like we haven't seen this in other countries already...

  4. Re:Translation by temojen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Correction: We can't verify that some foreign government or corporation isn't spying on us if we use closed-source software. Also we can't translate the software into croatian ourselves, but have to wait for the vendor to do it.

  5. Great for now but ... by desideria · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In a month Microsoft will be offering them a fantastic licensing deal and like other countries that "decided" to use open source, they'll likely change their course.

    1. Re:Great for now but ... by Daengbo · · Score: 4, Informative

      What? Like Thailand a couple of years ago, with the gov't's own Linux on the fast track to becoming the national OS and the gov't requiring 90% use within two years? Oh, yeah, since MS offered the gov't a sweet deal, that software hasn't been updated. Last version was December 2004. In the lifespan of a Linux distro, that means that it's dead.

    2. Re:Great for now but ... by xtracto · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Oh, but Thailanees (people from Thailand?) are not alone, something similar happened in Mexico in 2002, when Miguel de Icaza and others started promoting the migration to "software libre" in the E-mexico project:


      The project, dubbed e-Mexico, was first introduced by the government of Vicente Fox shortly after the ex-Coca-Cola executive took over the presidency in December of 2000. Funding was scarce, though, and the government began to look to corporate players to fill the void.


      In fact, some time ago, I read that article (a bit old but still good and impressive for me) about what happened, and I had just read one of those "Microsoft is Bad but Bill Gates is great with his Bill&Melinda foundation" discussions in slashdot.

      The truth is that before reading this article I had the belief that well, even tough Microsoft acts bad because it is a corporation, maybe the man and his wife may be better but oh surprise:


      Despite general agreement that open-source technologies would be more flexible and cost efficient, Mexico's Linux revolution was quashed after Fox met with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates, according to de Icaza.

      "Bill Gates flew down to Mexico, and they announced a donation of $30 million dollars ... and Linux was dropped," de Icaza said.


      And, to make things worse:

      icrosoft has pledged $60 million in software and training to help fund Internet kiosks that are being built in remote communities. The software maker has also allotted $10 million to train workers in small and mid-size businesses, along with an additional grant from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to the country's Vamos México program to be used to move the country's libraries online.


      Now, for those of you who does not know, this "Vamo México" program was made by the presidents wife, is is being investigaded by authorities for missuse and corruption .

      So, being things as they are here in Mexico (corruption has already rot the system) I am sure Mr. Fox got its piece of Gates cake to maintain MS software. But what I could not stand is the use of the Bill & Melinda foundation on this matters. I've got no respect from this man nor anything related to him.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  6. Why only there? by Drysh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think government all around the world should adopt similar policies.

      1. Governamental software is usualy specialized, so they had to pay for the whole development. Now they can build uppon OSS saving money.
      2. The development will probably be made by locals. Creating more programmers there, and more business based on OSS (support, custom development, etc).
      3. They will have full control of what there softwares do. No more hidden calls home by proprietary software.
      4. Security will probably be better: security by secret is the worst kind.

    My only question is... Why only there? Why don't other nations use similar policies? Why they keep buying from foreign companies instead of using OSS?

    1. Re:Why only there? by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My only question is... Why only there? Why don't other nations use similar policies? Why they keep buying from foreign companies instead of using OSS?

      Brcause it is a MAJOR change. Whether going from Oracle to Postgres, or SQLServer to Oracle, Windows to OSX, Windows to Linux....it is major. And not to be undertaken lightly.
      Whatever they are using now works, mostly. Business gets done. Changing the entire underpinnings brings the possibility of it not working. Yes, there might be a slight benefit in a new system, but it also might be a huge money pit. Ask the FBI.

      Switching tens of thousands, or even millions of desktops, the servers that they connect to, and all the myriad of applications used daily, to "something else" is not to be thought of lightly. And woe to he who proposes a multiyear project, with any cost savings at least 5 years out, and it goes tits up after 3 years.

  7. Croatia - a nerd's paradise? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ah, Croatia, one of the best kept secrets. The blonde, blue-eyed women are among the tallest in the world. Nude beaches on the Adriatic Sea. Almost everyone speaks English as a second language (knowing Croatian of course will get you further, but you can pick that up over time). Everything is cheap. And now, open source.

  8. They switched because by kahrytan · · Score: 2, Insightful


      They are in debt and are spending to much. They don't have any money. They spend 19 billion and only bring in 17 billion. The Republic of Croatia is looking to cut expenses. Though, it should be easier to cut 2 billion in expenses compared to 200 billion USA needs to cut.

    And in case if any slashdotters wants to move there.

    Croatia has GDP of $35 billion and $11,000 per capita. Unemployment is 18% compared to USA's 4.6%. Croatia is also mostly Catholic with only 1.3% is muslim as of 2001.

      If you want to congratulate the government. You can contact them through Ambassador Neven JURICA at 2343 Massachusetts Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20008. Phone is 202-588-5899 /Fax 202-588-8936.

    More information available at your local CIA office.

    --
    \
    1. Re:They switched because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Judging the quality of life in a country by GDP and unemployment figures is highly inaccurate. There are many other things you have to take into account, including cost of living, medical care, etc.

      That said, after living 33 years in the USA, I moved back to Croatia. So far I have no desire to move back to the USA. There is something about being a few hours drive from the Austrian Alps, a few hours drive from the Adriatic sea (beautiful coastline). Being able to walk out of a bar/pub with my beer onto the street (no open container law).

      I have friends here who have lived without the financial benefit of working in the West (Europe, USA) like I did. Still, they all go on weekend ski trips in the Alps, weekend trips to the sea and mountains, etc. They have better vacation time than in the USA.

      I meet this one guy who has been living here for 2.5 years teaching English. The guy is from Pittsburgh and has absolutely no Croatian background. He learned Croatian very well (considering only 2.5 years to learn it). He told me that he has no desire to go back to the USA -- likes life in Croatia better.

      Don't be so quick to judge on statistics. Croatia is a very nice place to live. It is also a very pretty country, will beautiful coasline, rivers, interesting mountainous terrain, etc. Riding my motorcyle here is joy.

      Fran

  9. Croatia's Step towards Open Source by Iggy+Man · · Score: 2, Informative

    Hi all! As a Croat I just had to post something to clarify... Croatia is a young country, and therefore we had to build our IT program infrastructure from close to nothing, meaning not many legacy problems. Being a small country (for a great holiday:) ), changes to this type of things is easier that applying the same to the US - imagine having to teach all the employees new tricks or worse new programs. Croatia has had a very long tradition of unix, and later linux usage. Our academic network http://www.carnet.hr/ is a long time promoter of OSS. All universities in Croatia run a Debian distro modified to suit every need of the students, teachers,... And new trends are constantly implemented. The same program is offered to secondary schools (and in a small extent to primary schools). Croatia has created an office for implementing new technologies called eHrvatska http://www.e-hrvatska.hr/ and they have been working on it for some 2-3 years now. At first there was no sign of actitity from them, but in the last year they brought to the public a series of interesting services nationwide (eVAT, eLearning, e), digitizing courts, land-ownership books,... Croatia was one of the first countries to include Digital signature into its legislation, opening the way for eBusiness and eGovernment. Even The head of Croatian Linux User Community is sceptical because Croatia has a deal with Microsoft for supplying MS software for all government needs, but it has become clear the money just leaves the country without any intent to come back. Making a WinXP and Office localization was a nice gesture, but nothing more. We have smart people, good programmers with great ideas making software for foreign countries. Why not earn some money at home by making software for home... I personally don't care if the move is made because of money issues, creating a software demand will mean jobs for programmers, and better service for citizens.

  10. Vlatko's 'asleep on the wheel' response by Aqua04 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's going on with the lame, unenthusiastic response by that Vlatko Kosturjak guy, president of the Croatian Linux User Group ?

    Yeah, I can imagine it might be difficult to do the transition on a large setting. So ???? Difficult doesn't mean hopeless, but that's sure how his response was. Shouldn't he be rolling up his sleeves and maybe offer resources, instead of just sitting back and making unhelpful, aloof statements like that ?

    Maybe he has had bad experiences with his govt's hot air statements. Who knows ? However, you can't win *anything* with a bad attitude like that. If that's the sort of "look down", "prove it to me" attitude of the friggin' *President* of the Linux User Group, I would run 100 miles the other way. A new adopter, even if it's the government, is not supposed to be made feel that they have to *prove* anything. If anything it should be Vlatko and his cohorts making clear that they are ready to *serve* and help any new adopters. But again, I don't have enough context to know what's going on there. I think that whole *serving* concept is completely over Vlatko's head. I wouldn't be surprised if a private corporation with inferior product but better attitude gets in there, then.

    1. Re:Vlatko's 'asleep on the wheel' response by kost · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hi! I'm Vlatko! I guess you just read in brief and you didn't read actually my complete statement, right? We're always offering help and we already helped in so many ways. We're all very positive about open source policy. For example, E-croatia (Main goverment IT body) website is running on open source technologies thanks to us. That's just one example. Yes we're ethusiastic, but I think implementation is crucial thing. You can write on paper whatever you want. Paper can stand whatever you can write :)

      --
      Vlatko Kosturjak - Kost