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Neuroscientist Halts Research to Stop Extremists
FleaPlus writes "UCLA neuroscience professor Dario Ringach, known for his contributions to our understanding of how the visual system processes information, has been forced to give up his experiments by the actions of animal-rights extremists. Although he and his family had endured harassment and vandalization by animal-rights activists for years, Ringach reconsidered after extremists tried to firebomb a colleague's home and accidentally left their Molotov cocktail on an elderly neighbor's doorstep. Ringach sent an email to animal activist groups saying, 'You win... please don't bother my family anymore.'"
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The Bush administration has no interest in protecting the advancement of science. That's the reason in this case, at least.
Bush has been continually waging a war on science. Why would he want to stop these groups?
h orchimp.html :)
Besides, they are experimenting on "primates," you know, his siblings:
http://www.dragoncollective.co.uk/submissions/bus
Not that it justifies a firebombing at all, but what exactly was he doing to get the activists so upset? I know many of them can be irrational, but they do tend to concentrate efforts on the worst offenders in general.
I'm not siding with them at all, but I am curious as to what he was doing in his labs that made him such a strong target. Is it possible that he was being overzealous in his experimentation? I'm no fan of PETA, but there is a limit to the amount of cruelty I think should be visited on animals for our benefit. What were his supposed "crimes"?
Tom Caudron
http://tom.digitalelite.com/
-Tom
How is preventing people from torturing animals a political goal? It's a basic moral goal. If you're walking down the street and see someone beating a cat or dog would you not stop them?
If you believe that his quest for knowledge is so important then why don't you volunteer to be part of these primate studies? They use OTHER primates because they are similiar to human primates, but a human is the PERFECT test subject. So you think that his knowledge gain is important, you could give him even MORE by using yourself. Are you going to? If you do then you have a right to say something against these "terrorists," if not you're a hypocrite.
no, they should be publicly exicuted, then their family tortured. That will teach others who think about dissent.
"Bah... these are the real terrorists... You don't agree with what someone is doing, then sue them... that's the american way... and if that fails, then try and get a law passed to make it illegal... starting your own personal war based on your morals is no different than the actions of those the US is currently calling terrorists. But hey, this is in the country who's government doesn't believe in teaching evolution anymore...
Times like these I'm happy to live in a country where the worst thing activists do is slow down traffic, and hold marches."
Though that was not the primary cause, there was a massive war that killed over a million people before America gave up enslaving human primates. wikipedia "american civil war" No, suing is NOT the American way.
I suppose that those slaves and the abolitionists should have just had some marches and rallies...
We haven't invaded another country's laboratory yet, have we? Bush is more motivated when it comes to terrorism than in stopping science. It makes more sense to side with the scientist who suffers from terrorism, and use it as an example to attack liberal fundamentalism as a source of terrorism. Why would Bushy pass up an opportunity to attack liberals? eg. Don't vote for the terrorists, vote republican.
A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.
Despite the level of uninformed comment pervasive on this topic, and the futility of responding to people who claim that putting a bullet in the head of a person who engages in ATTEMPTED property destruction, I will offer a couple of comments for you to spam.
1. A.L.F. has never bodily injured a human being.
2. A.L.F. actions in order to be A.L.F. action must not threaten human beings.
3. A.L.F. considers destruction of property to be a legitimate form of "non-violent" direct action.
4. A.L.F. accepts verbal harassment as a legimate form of "non-violent" direct action.
This is the characterization of this researchers work from the organization seeking to end his research:
"Mr. Ringach has been approved to kill 30 macaque monkeys for vision experiments. Each monkey is first paralyzed, then used for a single session that lasts up to 120 hours, and finally killed. Ringach says his experiments will advance our understanding of how monkeys process what they see. This is a far cry from life saving research. Let Ringach know that curiosity is no excuse for cutting up animals. And the fact that the species is not endangered is not an acceptable justification."
Like many, these people seem to believe that just because an experiment may contribute to our knowledge does not justify the use of primates in medical laboratories. The research is at a far remove from brining about substantive benefit to human beings and so would probably fail most reasonable standards of moral evaluation.
The research community in this country (and many others) is unable to police itself and implement adequate protection of animals from unjustifiable or weakly justified suffering, which would seem to fuel the extremist and incompetent actions such as placing a badly made molotov cocktail on the wrong front porch. In general if a "scientist" says that a certain experiment will produce valuable results that is enough to justify almost any treatment of animals. This is an absurd cartesian sort of primitivism. No Darwinian can believe that there are radical difference in kind between humans and animals and hence no radical difference in kinds of impermissable treatments. But, at least the creationists are consistent, the animal researchers tend to just be self-serving and cynical.
An obligatory, I do not support the action of the (probably) kids who left the molotov cocktail on the porch and I consider intimidation like this to be immoral and counter-productive. Nor am I associated with any of these organizations, though I have an interest in formulating codes of conduct for researchers and organizations that would limit the carte blanche that researchers have to inflict suffering on animals in the name of results that are of limited value and significance and often just bad science.
That's a nice little sentiment. But unless you're a quaker or a mennonite or another TRULY pacifistic person then you are most likely talking out of your ass. If someone was trying to kill you, would you not use violence to defend yourself? And if you were rendered incapable of defending yourself would you not want someone who was witnessing this to help you? please tell me...
I love how people can self-righteously talk about how ANY violence is wrong when it doesn't affect them but when they are being harmed they quickly reach for the phone to call the cops or reach for a weapon.
Most sane people consider it morally justifiable to use small amounts of violence to prevent greater violence. This guy was killing 30 primates a year. so he got a little shaken up? big deal. not that I'm advocating what these people did, because frankly, it's a losing battle. and most people don't care one bit about other animals being harmed(human or otherwise) but was it an immoral act? no.
I imagine this exchange between him and his kids:
"Daddy? why are they mad at us?"
"because at daddy's work he cuts monkeys brains open then kills them"
"monkeys? I like monkeys! like the ones we saw at the zoo? "
"don't worry, honey, it's for science."
At least their sharpshooters didn't deliberatly target civilians and specifically civilian babies, as some Moslem terrorists recently have. There should be not grand debate if the Moslem freedom fighters were doing reasonable acts of wartime defense/aggression. Those groups take it for granted that the greater powers do not react with the same disregard for civilians, or else there would be towns and towns and cities of dead people as there were in the time of Rome's conquest when they wanted to supress "upstarts".
ArcherB, are you sure that's not ArchieB?
Now, if you think that I am arguing against wiretapping terrorists you can go fuck yourself, and I'll jack off in your eye for good measure. I mean it. I'll drill a hole in your skull and put a gallon of spunk in there myself.
I'm arguing against illegal wiretaps. Get the fucking court order and wiretap away. If you don't have a fucking court order to wiretap, then I'm going to send you to prison.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
How about I fuck your eye socket? Nature abhors a vacuum, and I've got a gallon of spunk to fill your brain cavity.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
Because the courts have been infiltrated by leftists, just like journalism has. Clinton appointed some of the worst, most obstructionist judges we've ever seen. (I bet Hillary had more to do with it, seeing as how they're mostly women (butt-ugly women that Bill wouldn't be interested in)). The secret court was being very obstructive during the Bush administration. In the cases the warrants were rejected (all of them during GW's presidency, BTW) they were all eventually granted on appeal, so these judges are just being nit picky. Why the fuck do judges get to decide national security issues? We elect the president, he doesn't want to get impeached and shit, that's why I trust him. I trust the NSA because it's run by ordinary people, like myself. Judges don't have any concern or oversight, they can make a bad decision and nobody will know/care. Look at this latest attempt by some nut judge to block the NSA program. Fucking nut judges. So you either trust secret court judge, or you trust the president, obviously you trust secret court judge more. What you refer to as accountability, I refer to as bureaucracy. You just want some perma Clinton appointee to be dictating national security issues. It's simple, really.
How do you get off calling me a liar? I don't see why my personal integrity should come into question here. It's a cheap tactic, it's about all you leftists can hack up these days.
Just sit back and relax. People like you are the biggest problem for the United States foreign policy. If we had more people supporting military action, military action wouldn't even be necessary. It takes a self-destructive action by the president in order to accomplish anything militarily these days, but it must be done. If we were more war-prone, Iran wouldn't be challenging us. The NSA doesn't care about your pot farm, dude.
Yes indeed. I'm sure that's exactly what the animals are thinking when Herr Doktor Professor inserts his electrodes into their brains. I'm sure that's what animals are thinking when soap companies flush shampoo into their eyes. I'm sure that's what animals are thinking when they are overdosed with toxins to "see what will happen."
Animals are unable to protect themselves; that's why we are obliged to protect them from predatory behavior, just as we are low-functioning humans. This is a simple, obvious truth. Unless you buy the stupid religious argument that animals were created *for* us, which of course is superstitious nonsense on a par with santa claus and the tooth fairy.
You can bitch all you want about "animal rights terrorists", but the fact is, the "animals are ours to fuck with" clan has sponsored and directly caused more terror, pain, abuse and outright gross murder than the animal rights extremists will ever have time to catch up with.
When you're ready to put your innocent baby into drug testing or chemical sensitivty trials or have electrodes shoved into its head for "the betterment of the race", then I'll consider your argument for "terrorism." Until then, you're just another sick, murder-sponsoring fucktard.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
You consented to that procedure right? Did the monkey? BTW would you be OK if this guy was experimenting with children?
evil is as evil does
You heard the monkey say "no"? Did it sign a document saying it didn't want to? Did its family form a protest group outside the facility?
If you want to talk manurisms(it seemed the fear the needle or have an instinctive desire to get away), then the chicken I ate for supper probably didn't agree to having its head chopped off.
I certainly don't know of anyone who consented to have the HIV virus use their bodies to grow and propagate, but hell, the HIV virus went ahead and did it anyway.
In case you haven't noticed, Nature's a bitch. A real nasty woman. Frankly, that we even extend the courtesy of making the animal as comfortable as we are able is counter-intuitive and really unnatural(I'm glad we do, however).
As for comparing a monkey with children....either you don't have kids or they should have some pretty fucking low self esteem right about now. Do you think the monkey would care if we jabbed a sword through our chests? How bout if we jabbed one through its offspring's chest? I bet you it would care about that one. So are monkeys evil too?
One terrorist just gave up his research. Fewer primates will now live in terror.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Perhaps they weren't trying to firebomb the house, but send a warning. At least that was the impression I got.
Perhaps they should have kidnapped the family, drugged them, and stuck electrodes in their brains against their will.
Then they would have the support of Slashdot, heh.
I'll be modded down by groupthink zombies, but it's really sad that this terrorism craze has made it acceptable to TORTURE animals. I don't approve of assault on scientists, but I don't approve of animal testing either.
That's fine by me, as long as there's choice just like abortion. No one is forcing you get an abortion or use animal tested products. But in the same sense no one should force companies to stop making sure products are safe because people like you happen to think bunnies are real cute.
That's exactly the point. Animals being tested on do not have a choice. If you could talk to the little bunnies and they said 'please test on me!' there would be no problem! It is wrong to do shiate to animals so Paris Hilton can say 'that's hot'.
For more info: http://www.pcrm.org/ Thank you for mentioning Diabetes to prove my point: did you know that a major study released recently showed that Diabetes can be combatted greatly by eating a vegan diet (completely animal/cruelty free diet) ? http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?ne wsid=49091 .
Clearly you have friends stuck in an animal lab somewhere working really hard
to push pills in an effort to up the bottom line.
All you're doing is pressing propaganda for your industry which seems to have
endless drives to get money from the public...to no avail! Over and over again.
One would imagine that decades of animal testing, and tens of thousands of
white-coated "professionals" would have achieved at least one cure or healing method for
one major ailment by now. It certainly has helped the wallets of pharmaceuticals,
researchers, etc. but that is not what we're looking for.
But no, now you're going to make a silly argument that there's a specific path
to a cure that only eggheads like you can fill. Give me a break. Going to university
doesn't make you an expert. It helps you work for powerful companies that will pay
you big bucks to endlessly make the shareholders think you are making strides when you're just buying
nicer cars, stereos, and having more luxurious vacations. This is the case for the
vast majority of those of us who have worked for large corporations in practically ANY
field.
Information technology is and will be the way to real cures...with perhaps some
advances in biology which will allow us to use/generate human tissue.
If animal labs had glass walls, public opinion would have stopped our dear doctor from
continuing his research anyway.
Well then why the fuck do you want to hand over power to the leftist Clinton-appointed judge? Why do the judges fly underneath your nutbag conspiracy theory radar? You trust them because they're liberals, and you're liberal. It's simple. But why would you trust a judge who is working for the enemy? They're trying to protect the rights of guantanamo detainees and other foreign extremists.
Clinton would never have "wielded" this sort of power. His lawyers are the problem here. It was his failed policies we're trying to overcome. I'd be thrilled if the next liberal president continued down this path, supported the patriot act and expanded foreign surveillance. But you see that's not a liberal characteristic, they're all like you, they don't even trust themselves! And you'll have to understand that the president doesn't say who to tap. If the president were to tell his guys "Look, I want a transcript of every phone call coming in and out of DNC headquarters" he would go down in a white-hot blaze of media fury, and if he didn't go down immediately, someone would find out what he did when his term was up. The quickest way you're going to know this 1982 scenario that you have nightmares about is coming true, is when the president makes himself perma-dictator, abolishing term limits. Not going to happen, dude. Let's be rational here. If Clinton tapped his political opponents and went down because of it, I would laugh. It'd be silly for them to go through all that trouble when they could just get some sexy saxaphone playing pimp daddy who calls himself black to win elections, promising tax cuts and then inreasing them when he gets into office.
I quoted the wikipedia entry on FISA courts. These FISA courts are being obstructive, we could argue that but I think it's pretty clear when you do a little research. Trivially debunked? You sound like a lawyer, playing for an audience.
The president informed people in the senate what he was doing. In this case, the legislature was the "check". The legislature can end his control, they can end this program, they can end the war, and their terms are longer than his so they have more to worry about. Lets get judges out of national security, there is no place for them. They stink everything up.
Hah, I didn't call Hillary a lesbian. You're thick man, thick! She's a femenist, she would like to see women have more power in government. Hey there's that word again, Red Herring. I love that! Care to use "straw men" in your next post? You liberals all use the exact same tactics, you say the exact same things, you probably all read the exact same propoganda too.
(a) The president hasn't broken the law. Why don't you tell me what law he has broken? So far the only judge to tackle this issue has failed miserably. ACLU probably has 90% of their resources directed at this, and they have yet to produce any fruit! So what makes YOU think it's illegal?
(b) He's doing this to make it easier for the NSA, the CIA and the FBI to do their jobs. I'm sure he hasn't reserved any authority for HIMSELF, all this power has been given to the CIA, who were NEUTERED by Clinton and his fucking army of lawyers. Really, is that so hard for you to understand? You are ridiculous man, these conspiracies are out of control!
(c) I never made that claim. I said the ACLU is politically motivated and biased. Their aim right now is to make the president look bad, that's what I think. I don't think they really care about civil liberties, otherwise they would be protecting rights to gun ownership. There aren't very many "plain as day" civil rights issues today, gun ownership is one.
Fucking terrorists. They're the same as abortion clinic bombers, using violence to induce fear to achieve their political goals.
Mainstream christianity has denounced abortion clinic bombings. But I'm still waiting for the mainstream left to denounce any of several dozen leftist "militant activist" organizations.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!