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You Have Been 'Randomly' Selected?
dpbsmith asks: "One thing I've noticed is that the people who are told by the TSA that they have been 'randomly' selected for baggage inspection have a tendency not to believe it. I know one couple whose wife has been 'randomly' selected four times, while the husband never has been. The wife believes that it is because each of those times, she was traveling by herself, without checked baggage, (whereas she has never been inspected when traveling with her husband with checked baggage). In 'Uncommon Carriers', John McPhee accompanied a truck driver to write about the experience, and bought a trucker's cap to blend in. He says 'I would pay for my freedom at the Seattle-Tacoma airport when, with a one-way ticket bought the previous day, I would arrive to check in my baggage.' His baggage was 'randomly' selected for inspection, and later he was 'once again "randomly selected" for a shoes-off, belt-rolled, head-to-toe frisk.' So, what about it? Is the TSA simply flat-out lying when they tell you that you have been 'randomly selected?'" The better question to ask is: "Are random searches effective in keeping everyone safe?"
It's simple really. The TSA has their risk model based on various factors such as race, ticket purchase habits, slow/fast day at the airport, etc. Each criteria that's met increases the chances of you getting 'randomly' selected. It's still technically random, just not uniformly random.
Minor nitpick: the vast majority of turban wearers are Sikh, not Muslim.
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
Last time we flew, back in May, we flew UK-US with BA, then took a side-trip to the Bahamas with Delta. When we checked in for the Bahamas flight, the check-in agent wanted to take my green visa waiver form from my passport. I explained that I'd asked the US immigration agent when we'd arrived and he'd said I could keep it on the trip to the Bahamas and use it for re-entry to the US. The check-in agent wasn't happy, but let me keep it. However, my boarding pass bore the dreaded SSSS marker and I duly got the full wanding, bag search etc. My wife did't get selected.
Funnily enough, on checking in at Nassau, my pass had the SSSS stamp too, but no-one batted an eyelid at it, and I didn't get any security checking different from that which my wife or anyone else around got.
Technically, "random" does not necessarily mean uniformly distributed. There are many different ways to randomly pick a sample while not being fair. From my personal observation, I agree that there is some kind of profiling going on in the TSA's screening process.
They're profiling passengers but saying that they "randomly" selected them to keep their profiling methods secret.
Try purchasing a one-way ticket the day of the flight and see what happens. They'll say it's a random check, but it's your lucky day becuse you'll get randomly selected 100% of the time.
No, but neither were they called terrorists. The term wasn't much in use before 9/11.
That's bullshit. The term terrorist was in wide use before 9/11. I remember it being used in the 1980s - for example to describe the suicide truck bombing of American Marines stationed in Beruit. I also remember it being used to describe the Unabomber and the Oklahoma City bombing.
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'No, but neither were they called terrorists. The term wasn't much in use before 9/11. Before that such people were quite properly called "criminals".'
Oh good grief. The term 'Terrorism' 'wasn't much in use before 9/11.' ? the Unabomber wasn't called a terrorist?
'observe that the IRA and Britain are also in a religious conflict'
What on earth are you talking about? The IRA wasn't fighting the British (and vice versa) because they did or didn't share views on religion - they disagreed about who should rule the North of Ireland. Lots of British governmental forces were/ are Catholics, atheists, etc, and lots of the IRA were secular/ atheists.
'The IRA is not concerned with the US, are not that large in numbers, and don't do nearly as much damage as the muslims do in the middle east. To me it simply looks like you can't count.'
And to me it looks like you're a total buffoon. There are still more British troops in the North of Ireland than there are in Iraq, the 50 or so British citizens killed on the London Tube last year is dwarfed by the amount of deaths caused in/ by the North of Ireland/ the Brits/ whoever you call it
And why does the fact that the IRA care/ not care about the US make them any more or less terrorist? And what about ETA, the RAF, etc etc.
http://milkshake.dexy.org
It's gotta be more than looks as when I came back from Amsterdam, nothing happened. I was 18 at the time, have long hair, permanent stubble and usually dress fairly scruffy (especially coming back from a holiday). I was expecting to be mauled by sniffer dogs and have all my bags thoroughly searched, but no. Maybe it's the fact that I was travelling with my parents that convinced them I didn't have an assfull of illegal substances... Or maybe I just have an honest face...
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I used to work at a major airline. Not at the ticket counter but I was there enough to figure out random means a profile. The profile has nothing to do with you the person. It appears to be a weighted average of what someone believes might seperate you from the average person. Last minute ticket, one way, no checked in baggage, do not fly often, paid with cash, part of a group that all did the same, many tickets for different people on one credit card, flying alone blah blah blah. I guess if they use such parameters that does qualify as a profiling but you the person are not being profiled, your habit or events that lead to your ticket purchase seemed to fit someones idea of what a terrorist might do as well.
Is this effective? I have no idea, some of those parameters might but they are easy to alter as well and a lot of those above are done by real every day Joes as well. That is why every day Joe gets those random checks as well. I doubt anyone outside the TSA really knows exactly what they look at to determine who might be a risk or how effective it really is.
Insurance companies profile as well. 16-24 year old male? You pay the highest rates regardless of your driving record. That age sets off a flag that you are of the highest percentage of unsafe drivers. Own a home or have a 4.0 GPA? You get lower rates then the person that does not own a home or is the sick in school. They have determined through profiling that home owners and kids that buckle down in school are more responsible and less likely to be involved in an accident.
Don't act so suprised that the TSA/NSA/FBI and what ever other 3 letter law enforment types think they can profile as well. Is this passenger profile thing worse then truely random? I have no idea. If you do not meet what ever criteria they are looking for, I guess you would have a less chance of being picked at random assuming they only pick a certain percentage of people overall. If they pick a certain percentage of truely random people AND pick people that meet a certain profile then profiling is not worse then random.
It sure as hell isn't random, but it cuts a couple of ways. I am a 60 year old Englishman, and I frequently do international yacht deliveries. I usually travel with a crew mate who is a 60 year old American.
Naturally, many of our flights are one way, so that obviously raises a flag. Often, we also only pack hand baggage. However, in about ten instances, my partner gets waved through, but I get the whole treatment. That's just because I'm not American.
As soon as we get to Central America, however, the tables are turned - he gets the business, and even has to pay $10.00 for a visa, while I walk straight through and don't need a visa.
In Europe, we both get equal treatment, no hassle at all.
Yes, it isn't random, and yes, it IS profiling.
That is not the only reason why to have random searches...
As the Guru of Security, Bruce Schneier, has pointed out, the biggest problem with profiling is that eventually, the bad guys will learn what the profile is you are looking for, and simply change their profile. Truly random searches *do* provide the best security if you are not searching everyone. Without a profile to avoid, bad guys will always have a chance of being singled out, and that will make them nervous...and if you have well trained security people, they will notice that person and single *them* out for extra checking. The threat of a search can be just as effective as the search itself!
I suggest people read Bruce's Blog, and/or subscribe to his security newsletter, Crypto-Gram:
http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram.html
ttyl
Farrell
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I have taken around 400 - 500 flights in the last five years (outbound & return every week), mostly domestic USA flights. From personsal experience, the following will get you selected:
- Purchase of ticket near to date of travel (less than 1 or 2 business days). This is probably due to inefficiencies in the system that do not allow you to be "cleared" by the TSA.
- One way tickets. For cost purposes, it is cheaper to purchase a cheap outbound direct flight on one carrier and a separate return flight with connections with a different carrier. If they are different tickets, expect to be stopped.
- No ID. Yes, you can fly in the USA without ID... People lose / forget their ID, especially for 6 am flights.
- Odd method of payment. Cash or someone else's credit card (different last name, non-corporate) is a red flag.
- Same name on a watch list. This has not happened to me, but to a co-worker with a "terrorist sounding name" (his quote).
As far as I can tell, the following do NOT play a part in the selection process:
- Being from an "Allied" country. Canadian, British, French, German, Australian and Japanese passports & citizenship do not raise an eyebrow. I cannot speak for suspected terror watchlist nations - Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc...
- Acting rude / obnoxious or saying "bomb". Anyhing less than a serious verbal threat will likely get you a raised eyebrow. YMMV based on the security person.
- True random selection. No one on my team at work has ever been "randomly" selected outside the points above (some frequent flyers, some infrequent)
EX TSA here
If you buy a one way ticket, you were not randomly selected, If you buy your ticket at the last moment you were not randomly selected. If you did one of the many unknown "bad" things you were not randomly selected.
The airlines ticketing system is set up to flag certain actions, and prints out that line of SSSSSSS on your ticket and you get extra screening... nothing random about it.
Random screening happens when the screener at the walk through metal detector sees that one of the people running the hand held detectors are not searching anyone so whoever is next is sent that way. Or when the screener searching bags out of the X-Ray machine finishes a bag, they just grab the next bag out of the machine and search that.
So random in this case comes from just keeping the screeners busy.
Well one morning i was on a 6am flight and I hadnt had any coffee and I was 'randomly' searched for the billionth time. I kind of flipped out and asked the TSA people why the hell I was always searched. They calmly turned me around and showed me the back of the metal detector. Your response on the detector is zero to four indicated by 4 lights lighting up or not. When you walk through you will notice the guy/gal looking up above you at these lights. A big chunk of metal will get an obvious '4' and the thing will beep etc. But a 2 or 3 just means you have a bit more metal than usual and they will then ask you to step aside. Now heres the kicker, the response is higher based on how close you are to the detector so fat and tall people naturally set off a higher signature. Im 6'4 so they said I will always ring up a higher response, hence I get 'randomly' searched. Now i duck when i go through the detector and have not been pulled aside once since then. Hooray.
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No matter how thin you slice it, its still baloney.
I got randomly selected 5 times in one trip.
- >CAK). My significant other who was traveling with me never got checked and of the people in line with me and who i saw, only one other person got checked on the flight from CLE. It's random my ass.
I'm almost 30, dark hair and eyes, a bit over weight, fairly non-descript, had a partial beard. They nailed me *every* plane to the cayman islands and all but the one from the cayman->boston on the way back (CAK->CLE->Boston->Caymans-|-Caymans->Boston->CLE
Shadus
name one country ...that has not had a muslim attack in recent history
Switzerland.
My one - Ireland.
Can you name one country including the muslim ones that has not had a muslim attack in recent history?
Canada.
All terrorists have been muslims? So the Unabomber was Muslim? Timmothy McVeigh is Muslim? THe IRA are all Muslim? Those right wing christian orgs who blow up abortion sites are muslims in disguise? The Shining Path is Muslim?
Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber were hardly part of any kind of organization, nor were they able to find a whole lot of people who had the same goals. So, while I will agree that they were terrorists and more or less white people, they since they did not share a common goal, they are separate entities.
The IRA agreed to lay down their weapons years ago. And as a right wing Christian myself, I abhor those that blow up abortion clinics or try to kill abortion doctors. So much so that I would gladly throw my body in the path of a bullet to protect a doctor or a clinic. And yes, I'm pro-life. These people do not represent Christianity and have been so chastised by Christians that they quit (ever hear of Muslims doing that? Me neither)... when was the last time you heard of an abortion clinic blowing up? Then again, it's really a bad comparison anyway. How many people have died total from all abortion clinic bombings vs how many died in any single one of the terror attacks I'm listing next?
Now, consider that all of the 9-11 hijackers were muslim. All of the bombers on 7-11 were muslim. The bus bombers in Britain were Muslim. The Kobar towers, the Cole, Beslan in Russia (fucking school kids for Christ's sake!), embassies in in Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania were all done by 100% Muslims. So, while I will agree that not all of the terrorists are Muslim, I think it is close enough to 100%, to say that all terrorists are Muslim! I mean, at some point, you have to go ahead and round up to 100%
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Sorry...Richard Reid was flagged by airline personnel (American Airlines) in Paris, as being suspicious. Unfortunately, the French police declined to search him or take additional action despite numerous requests from the airline to do so. Profiling worked, sort of.
The first time I got the full TSA treatment, I was singled out for this treatment when I collected my boarding pass at the checkin counter. The person at the checkin counter marked my boarding pass in a manner such that a TSA person (before I got to the xray stuff) was able to single me out and put me in another queue.
My travel profile matched whatever it was they thought was suspicious enough to warrant it.
So, no, I doubt very much that the "random selection" is random at all.
All terrorists aren't masterminds. First WTC bombing, 1993.
Filmmaker Theo van Gogh was killed by a muslim in Holland because of his movie which was critical of the position of women in Islam.
Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with that plan?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/5267884.stm
That's just from my own personal knowledge. I'd bet you're wrong about most of the others too.
>>Why do you keep saying "muslim types"?
Pehaps he means that there are almost as many 'types' of Islam than 'christian types' in the US?
* Ahl-e-Hadeeth
* Ahmadi
* Al-Ahbash
* Alavi Bohra
* Alawite
* Alevi
* Azraqi (religion)
* Dawoodi Bohra
* Druze
* Haruriyya
* Ibadi
* Ismaili
* Kharijites
* Moorish Science Temple of America
* Mustaali
* Nation of Islam
* Nizari
* Qarmatians
* Qur'an alone
* Salafi
* Satpanth
* Shi'a Islam
* Sufism
* Sufri
* Sulaimani Bohra
* Sunni Islam
* Twelvers
* Wahdat-ul-Wujood
* Wahhabism
* Zaidiyyah
* Zikri
The LD50 (the amount of a substance that reliably kills 50% of a test population) for Hydrogen cyanide is 3.7 mg/kg - so a bit on a needle won't kill or even make very sick a 50kg human. All it will do is annoy them
I remember flying standby a few years back, and everytime I left the SLC airport for a cig, I got the royal "special treatment". It was a real bummer when I found the smoking area inside the terminal several hours later...
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Of interest, Canada will be getting armed guards starting in 2007
You actually believe that?
Not to call rank here, but currently, I'm elite/platinum on 6 airlines, gold of about 5 others, and silver on 2 more. And I believe in my previous post on this topic, I mentioned that as I spend about 28 days out of 30 on a airplane. and I get about 28 "random" searches.
Oh yes, having a frequent flyer number will most certainly NOT prevent this. (at least in my case).
I have joked many times that there are no frequent flyer terrorists. (show me a bomber with gold status, and I will shut up) But apparently, this little nugget of truth seems to escape the TSA.
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"This is contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. Let him tell us why we did not strike Sweden, for example." -- Osama Bin Laden
The terrorists don't want to force people to become Muslim or die. (The Quran forbids that; "Let there Be no compulsion in Religion" (2:256)) Bin Laden was pretty clear in his goals, if you read his speeches. He wants the US out of Saudi Arabia and the Middle East, and the US to stop backing Israel. Good ideas that are widely supported, awful methods to try and achieve those goals.
Somebody didn't get the memo. Steve Centanni and Olaf Wiig were just "forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint" last week. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210645,00.html