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Nanocosmetics Used Since Ancient Egypt

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the lead-good-for-the-skin dept.

Roland Piquepaille writes "French researchers have found that Egyptians, Greek and Romans were using nanotechnology to dye their hair several thousands years ago. Nanowerk Spotlight reports they were using lead compounds which generated lead sulfide (PbS) nanocrystals with a diameter of only 5 nanometers. At a moment where many people wonder if the use of nanoparticles is safe, it's good to know that nanotechnology has been widely used for a very long time."

30 of 252 comments (clear)

  1. Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... by daveschroeder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...is hardly the same as using nanotechnology to repair your brain or otherwise ingest.

    And aside from that, I'd hardly call this "nanotechnology" just because a hair dye process deemed effective by ancient Egyptians coincidentally happened to generate particle small enough to meet the definition of "nanoparticle".

    Additionally, this is yet another questionable Roland Piquepaille submission.

    1. Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... by SatanicPuppy · · Score: 4

      Beyond that, the question of health effects isn't even addressed. That's the whole point right? How do environmental nanoparticles effect those who are exposed to them? So they had nanoparticles, and ancient egypt existed, so it must not be too bad, right? Or maybe there was more than one reason that they died young...Just because something existed in the past doesn't mean it's not a danger in the here and now.

      Regardless, if they were using lead based cosmetics they're not exactly a model to emulate.

      --
      ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
    2. Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... by LewsKinslayer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agreed. If this is what nanotechnology has come to mean, then we need to abandon the word entirely, and move on to a new one. When I think of nanotechnology I think of molecular manufacturing, and Fullerene nanogears, you know, the sort of nanotechnology that actually moves around and does stuff.

    3. Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... by RobertB-DC · · Score: 4, Funny

      At least tag this Roland so people with a brain won't waste their time commenting...

      Actually, I've been tagging them "pigpile". But I'll add "roland" as well. Thanks!

      --
      Stressed? Me? Of course not. Stress is what a rubber band feels before it breaks, silly.
    4. Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... by msobkow · · Score: 5, Funny


      Lead poisoning occurs regardless of the size of the lead particles.


      It seems the article poster has a reputation, based on the grandparent comment. If they can try to spin lead poisoning as proof that nano-tech is safe and keep a straight face, they must have spent part of their career working for the tobacco industry.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    5. Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... by Darlantan · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yeah, Roland has a bit of a rep, in case you've managed to miss it. Even I picked up on it in passing.

      He routinely submits stuff that is way out of date, common knowledge, or almost entirely irrelevant (like this), and it routinely gets accepted. There have been accusations of all sorts of stuff, primarily that Roland and the editors (a few in particular) have some sort of agreement, and what Roland gets out of it is the standard perks of having his site routinely linked off of the main page of /. (tried clicking his name?).

      --
      Fill in your four or five-letter word of wisdom here _ _ _ _ _.
    6. Re:Using "nanotechnology" to dye your hair... by catwh0re · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I'd take point with this line: "At a moment where many people wonder if the use of nanoparticles is safe, it's good to know that nanotechnology has been widely used for a very long time."

      Taking safety cues from an era where we have evidence that the average life span was about 30 years isn't giving me any additional confidence in nanotechnology, and worries me somewhat that someone would even suggest this over modern scientific method. Not to forget that we don't have nearly enough information about the ancients to satisfy any scientific enquiry into nanotechnology. What we know so far about the ancients isn't indicative of life-longevity.

  2. Not exactly a ringing endorsement... by TripMaster+Monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At a moment where many people wonder if the use of nanoparticles is safe, it's good to know that nanotechnology has been widely used for a very long time.


    Well...humans have done other things for a long time that were none too healthy. A few examples:
    • Smoking was thought to be harmless....doctors used to smoke.
    • People used to eat and drink from pewter vessels.
    • People used to use asbestos as insulation.
    • (etc. etc. etc.)


    So just because people used to do something for a long time doesn't necessarily make it harmless.
    --
    ____

    ~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey

    1. Re:Not exactly a ringing endorsement... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But smoking isn't actually ALL that bad for you if you don't do it like a chimney, and especially if you're not smoking things that have had carcinogens fucking added to them. Excuse me, no, I don't need any arsenic added to my tobacco. Besides, there's things to smoke other than tobacco :P

      Pewter, okay, bad idea :)

      But asbestos is still used as insulation! Just not in buildings. And it's still used to make brake pads. The idea was not a bad one, but the way it was implemented was terrible.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Not exactly a ringing endorsement... by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative
      Unless I'm very mistaken, asbestos hasn't been used in brake pads for many years, It's been replaced by other compounds.

      You are mistaken. It's just been outlawed in most first-world countries. It's still used in other places. It's also used in gaskets; I've seen gaskets with asbestos content personally. Anyway, you haven't looked very hard if you can't find current uses of Asbestos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos has a whole section.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  3. Roland Piquepaille article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is another Roland Piquepaille article.

    1. Re:Roland Piquepaille article by solevita · · Score: 4, Funny

      Please God, grant me the ability to punch Roland Piquepaille in the face over standard TCP/IP.

      ;)

  4. Safety by evanbd · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Huh? I'm pretty sure the Egyptians didn't do a lot of work to decide if it was safe. The lead used would be unsafe regardless of the nanoparticulate nature of the compound. Lead was used in lots of other ways through history, too. That doesn't make it safe.

  5. This does not inspire confidence by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

    These same people were drinking wine from lead goblets, I don't know if they are the ones we should be looking at for safety advice.

    1. Re:This does not inspire confidence by jaysones · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's hardly safe- All of these people are dead!

  6. Good point... by Error27 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At a moment where many people wonder if the use of nanoparticles is safe, it's good to know that nanotechnology has been widely used for a very long time.

    Rubbing your head with lead sulfide definitely sounds safe enough, I guess that proves that nothing can go wrong with using technology.

  7. not a good example of saftey in nanotech by way2trivial · · Score: 4, Funny
    I mean, you do realize- all those people are dead now?

    a 100% mortality rate does not bode well for the method...

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  8. Are you kidding? by bshort404 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Without a doubt, this is the worst post ever.

    The Egyptians used nano-particles? There's a world of difference between a very small mineral grain and a synthesized nano-bot.

    Get a clue.

    --
    -B
  9. Real article link... by mendaliv · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here it is... http://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=791.php

  10. It's a friggin *lead* compound... by comingstorm · · Score: 5, Insightful
    ... plus, it's very finely divided, which makes it much more active than the big chunks of lead that we avoid because they cause brain damage.

    In general, any "nanotechnology" that isn't encapsulated will have this problem; a very large specific surface area can make things hazardous even if the substance is otherwise chemically inert.

    And I'll second parent's assertion that it's not actually nanotechnology; it's friggin' chemistry. When you can program it, or it can reproduce, *then* you can call it genuine nanotech; not before.

  11. Not so... by teutonic_leech · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When do people get this into their thick heads: Correlation does not equal causation. I know this might not be the best application for quoting this, but the fact that nano particles were 'accidentally' used does not make this 'nanotechnology'. Yet another attempt to hype this new term and in the process completely obfuscate and dilute its true meaning. Nanotechnology is the science and technology of building devices, such as electronic circuits, from single atoms and molecules. I'm fairly certain the ancient Egyptians were a few steps behind that technological achievement. I'm even miffed when they call microparticles (e.g. sunscreens, lubricants, etc.) a result of 'nanotechnology' - it's a grayzone yes, but we should keep our definitions in check.

  12. Q and A by rs79 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Q: "When, exactly, did Slashdot become so retarded?"

    A: During the Bush admistrations war on science, reason, morals and ethics.

    --
    Need Mercedes parts ?
  13. what a crap write up by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Insightful

    calling what the ancient egyptians were doing with PbS "nanotechnology" is like saying me popping my zits is "ecosystem terraforming"

    "At a moment where many people wonder if the use of nanoparticles is safe, it's good to know that nanotechnology has been widely used for a very long time"

    oh yeah! i just farted! therefore, global warming isn't a threat to mankind!

    that's about the same level of logical deduction there dear author!

    who wrote this crap and who greenlighted it?

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  14. Re:If the ancient Egyptians used it... by kfg · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... their life spans were totally almost half of ours.

    The people who wore these hair dyes were typically of the upper classes. The upper classes might well live to something even we would recognize as an advanced age.

    Pepi II is thought to have ruled for 94 years. Ramses II lived to see his 90th birthday and his heir was in his 60s when he took the throne, ruling for about another 20 years.

    Do not confuse life expectency with ages that might well be fairly commonly attainable. A huge chunk of the the lower life expectency is due to high infant mortality and death during childbirth, scewing the statistics. If one made it to the 21st year; and didn't work on pyramids and such, one's life outlook was held to be something around the classic age of man; four score and ten. That's why it's the classic age.

    KFG

  15. Re:Ancient Romans also used lead pipes by Chaffar · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Ancient Romans also used lead pipes
    We know what the Romans would do with lead pipes if they were still around right now - they'd beat the living sh*t out a certain submitter with a history of drawing erroneous conclusions based on distorted facts.
  16. Pewter ... not exactly by Riturno · · Score: 3, Informative

    Pewter is not inherently a problem since it is primarily tin with a bit of copper, with possibly some other non-toxic metals. You can still get pewter drinking vessels and utensiles, which are safe to use.

    The problem is that some pewter contains lead to add color and change the hardness. This is especially true of older pewter. This pewter is not safe.

    Modern pewter is generally not a problem.

  17. I am now convinced about Roland Piquepaille by KWTm · · Score: 5, Funny

    I read with some skepticism the negative comments[1] regarding Roland Piquepaille, some postulating that some staff member of Slashdot has a secret agreement to accept his submissions.

    Well, now, this takes the cake. Egyptians using nanoparticles? This is news?

    Ahem, In Other News ...
    When Gandhi incited civil disobedience against British rule by picking up a pinch of salt from the sea, those sodium chloride particles were less than one nanometre across![2] OMG! The Indians used nanotechnology to overthrow the British!!! WTF! Is this a harbinger of the war-like uses of nanotechnology??? BBQ!!!1!!11!one!1!

    Can we have a topic devoted to Roland Piquepaille so that we can adjust our viewing preferences in accordance with the amount of adoration we feel for this Submitter of Many Slashdot Articles?

    -----
    Footnotes:
    [1]
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=14501811&sid=1 74309
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=14436063&sid=1 73521
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=14049437&sid=1 68524
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=13236725&sid=1 57979
    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=13188470&sid=1 57186

    [2] (Yeah, I know the actual particles of salt he held were more than 1nm across, but then it dissolved into the sweat from his fingertips, and the salt regrouped into nanoparticles that spread out in a thin layer across his fingertips.)

    --
    404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
    [GPG key in journal]
  18. Long history of stupid uses of toxic chemicals by smellsofbikes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Romans and Greeks used lead paints to make their faces white. After the fall of Rome, people selectively poisoned themselves with arsenic to make themselves look paler. And, given the health impacts of stuff like silicosis and asbestos damage, both of which are related to particle size and shape, I'd say that any small particle had better be eyed pretty warily by anyone with brains, no matter what idiots in the past have done with it.

    --
    Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  19. We "should" be worried about "nanotech" by infolib · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At a moment where many people wonder if the use of nanoparticles is safe, it's good to know that nanotechnology has been widely used for a very long time

    Ok, all the comments about lead-not-safe and this-isn't-nanotech aside, I think there's something to be said for regulating compounds differently based on particle size.

    We do know that some substances changes chemical properties depending on their particle size. We also haven't yet researched the health risks of nanotubes very well, but I think we should do so before spreading tons of the little critters around in field emission displays. They might be quite hard to clean up after the fact.

    This is not a call for "safety above all" - it's just an appeal to consider what is already known. (A comparison with cell phones, for instance, would show that cell phone frequencies are by known physics very unlikely to influence chemical reactions beyond thermal effects, hence allowing them per default is quite sensible).

    Oh, and why did I write "nanotech" instead of nanotech? Because the term has become a buzzword so broad as to be almost meaningless, not least because thousands of labs have gained access to funding by putting a "Nanotech lab" sign on the door while continuing their usual work. (My place is partly like that). So be careful when using the term "nanotech" - it might mean vastly different things to different people and the ambiguity is being exploited.

    --
    Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
  20. Re:safe? how about the long term? by Ironsides · · Score: 3, Informative

    How's this?

    Africa showed evidence of brain surgery as early as 3,000 B.C. in papyrus writings found in Egypt. "Brain," the actual word itself, is used here for the first time in any language. Egyptian knowledge of anatomy may have been rudimentary, but the ancient civilization did contribute important notations on the nervous system.

    --
    Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars