Reverse Off-Shoring

punkish writes "India is becoming more attractive to information technology workers from Western countries. Some local IT companies, such as Infosys Technologies in Bangalore, are now able to offer salaries and other perks that are comparable to what Western IT talent would find in their home countries. Infosys, which is currently training 126 Americans at its cutting-edge complex in Mysore, expects to employ 300 Americans by the end of 2006 and add a large contingent from Great Britain next year."

Comments

Indians will complain about foreigners soon

[LiquidCoooled]

Its not exactly reverse outshoring, but it shows how tides change.
Which country will be the next cheap target?
When will we come full circle and realise that there are dedicated capable individuals in the original countries?
I speak to people from all around the world and there are examples of in-country outshoring occuring (jobs in London being replaced with staff in Manchester - its simply cheaper up North) and the London staff were just as outraged, its peoples lives the managers are playing with and sometimes the bottom line isn't that important.
I would make a terrible manager because as long as I could break even in my field I would be happy.

Re:Indians will complain about foreigners soon

[Ph33r th3 g(O)at]

For things that don't require a large population with a good command (albeit with accent) of English, yes. India benefited from having been a British colony prior. The only part of China I can see that's similarly advantaged with respect to language is Hong Kong.

Why not?

[nz_mincemeat]

The cost of living in India would be lower than the home country + comparable wages = ability to save.

Re:Why not?

[Anonymous Coward]

But crappier infastructure + being a cultural outsider + far from american friends and family = lower quality of life

As a tech worker from America, living in China, I understand what you're saying but I don't agree. There's the flip side that living in a foreign country is an interesting experience, r that friends and family can still visit and talk via e-mail or the phone. While I don't live a palatial lifestlye because it's not my habit, I easily could, and as it is I save up a huge percentage of what I earn.

It's not perfect, it's not for everybody, and it's certainly not for people with a wife & kids, but for many people I think it is great. For me I definitely consider it a step up in my quality of life.

Re:Why not?

[snoopsk]

I am a recent CS graduate hired by TCS (Tata Consultancy Services) and am completing a 3 month on-the-job training program in India. I spent 1 month in Trivandrum and am currently residing in Pune.

As someone who has grown up in the US, I have experienced a drastic reduction in the standard of living to which I am accustomed. Even though my salary is many times higher than the average Indian and even though the buying power of the dollar is significantly better than the rupee (a good meal at a nice restaurant is less than $5), I still have difficulty attaining a decent standard of living in this country.

CONS
Power goes out for hours on end for no reason
Air pollution is unbearable
Internet is fairly slow (128-256kbps MAX) and unreliable
Prompt service is rare (fast food means about 20mins)
Quality electronics equipment is hard to find and very expensive

PROS
English is the most commonly spoke language
Cost of living is very low
Computer books are cheap (1/5 the US MSRP)

Other issues involve significant cultural differences between Indians and Americans. Indians have a take-life-as-it-comes attitude that spills over into every aspect of their life. Urgency, precision, and planning are not familiar concepts to the Indian unstructured lifestyle. This chaotic lifestyle causes frustration to the American who expects the consistency of a structured process.

Something as simple as a FIFO line, whether it be at a grocery store or a red light, is not implemented in India. Indians don't stand in line; they cluster. Also, driving in India is something that has to be experienced to be believed!

These cultural differences are at times perplexing, interesting, and frustrating.

I am enjoying my stay in India, but I am also counting the days until I get back home. The thrid-world lifestyle wears on the pampered American.

Re:Why not?

[Darkman, Walkin Dude]

Crappier infrastrcuture??? At 300 million mobile phones, i wish to think different.

You can wish all you like, but you'd still not understand what he was talking about. He means things like roads, indoor plumbing, you know... infrastructure. Not mobile phones. This whole story is laughable in any case, I mean what, in 2004 25% of India's population was below the poverty line, which is, wait for it, about 8 dollars a month. Indians won't be getting western wages anytime soon, and if they do, you know what will happen? The companies will move straight on to China. Or south east asia. Or Russia. Companies don't go to India because they like the curry, they go there because its cheap. Thats what we call the bottom line.

Its not just India.

[torpor]

Globalization is a reality. If you are still thinking that your local country offers the only market for your job, you are probably watching too much TV and consuming too much sugary fat, and in my opinion not travelling often, nor far and wide, enough.

My advice to the new globalist thinker: Travel far and wide and don't bother fooling yourself into thinking you ever actually 'own' a house (it owns you). Go nomad.

Whats needed in this day and age are people who step across language boundaries, and state borders, to work with each other, a functional group doing business who put this ideal of working together above personal posession and consumption. High-risk is not even half of it. It is far too riskier to pander to high and often mighty ideals of statehood in some parts of the world ..

PS- Unix runs everywhere.

Re:Its not just India.

[leeum]

The 40 quid and a form allows you to register a company in the UK, which is a requirement for registration with Companies House, I believe.

The 200,000 quid is a separate requirement that's imposed by the Home Office on foreign nationals, I suppose as a deterrent for people who start little "businesses" that are shell companies and merely used to circumvent the normal immigrations process. The money has to be owned by the business and used for business purposes and cannot be taken out for a period of (I believe) 5 years. For a start up, that's immense.

With regards to ten years living in the UK, you can change your status to a permanent residence but under some other quite restrictive requirements. You cannot have left the country for a total of 18 months throughout the entire time period, and you must have stayed in the country for the past 3 years continuously prior to making the application. Given that people nowadays tend to be posted abroad for business, or pursue other (temporary) opportunities in other parts of the world nowadays, that's an extremely tough act to follow.

Its good...

[bayankaran]

Reverse offshoring (or whatever its called) is good.

Traditionally the West gives emphasis on individualism and the East favours interdependence. A western tourist to India will see a lot of colour and crowd - but they may not get the idea behind India - a nation of a billion people with 15 official languages more than 500 languages and 2000 dialects. But someone who works in India for a short while (even on a sterilised IT campus) will get a better perception of the country. They can also dispel the lingering half truths that persist amongst westerners.

Now Indians know occupying a country of its size and exploiting is not a viable idea for any superpower (it can still happen with western transnational corporations)- so the general mistrust towards the West is a bit lesser.

A few months back in New Bombay I saw a few western technology workers. They women looked happier (though a bit perplexed) compared to their counterparts in Western cities - Karma+Nirvana+Brahma+tropical climate+chaos+anarchy in action.

Wow, this article is about me!

[PeteyG]

This is a surprise - I am actually in the program discussed in the article. I just graduated from the University of Washington in Seattle, and took this job. I'm typing this from the company's campus in Mysore, India. It's a fun experience, I'm seeing the sights, eating a lot of curry, getting my technical skills rounded out a bit, and then I will be headed back to the States in while to work for them.

If anyone has any questions about the article, wtf I'm doing in India, what it's like, etc... post here and I will do my best to answer them!

Re:Wow, this article is about me!

[PeteyG]

The article seemed a bit hand-wavy as to what we were actually doing over here... but it's basically half training (most of us didn't major in computer science) in programming, databases, etc, followed by time with the Indian-side of the development team that we'll be working with back in the States. The hours really aren't bad at all for those of us with programming experience, and I think the company wants it that way; part of the reason we're out here is to go out and about and experience India. You know, take in the culture and such, so we're more effective on whatever developmeant team we end up working on.

Most of the people I work with day to day are in the US group, with the people leading the training (or whatever HR seminar) being Indian. That'll change when we start working on the actual development teams here.

After hours, we interact a lot with locals... typically Indian trainees going through the same process we are. We're all on the same campus, and there's a lot of recreational things to do (bowling, badminton, basketball... blah blah blah) together. We're actually trying to get together a US vs. India Counter Strike match right now. At the same time, we usually go out to eat, drink, and explore India in groups of US folk.

It's definitely not an internship... (for some reason I have to keep reminding my mother this). It's a real, live job. I honestly don't know what the advancement path will be like down the road, but the company is expanding pretty rapidly, so I would assume there's a path there should I want to keep going down it.

Why not Costa Rica Instead

[coldcanofbeer]

I recently outsourced myself to Costa Rica and am enjoying it. Unlike the people in the article who work for companies in India, I do not work for any companies here in Costa Rica. The pay would be lousy. Instead I do the same software development work I did in California.

Here is link to a writeup I wrote recently on the experience:
Outsourcing Myself to Costa Rica

REAL reverse off-shoring

[Colonel Panic]

This isn't reverse off-shoring, this is Westerners moving to India for Jobs that have been offshored from the places they come from.

In a real example of reverse off-shoring, I was contacted a few months ago by someone from an Indian consulting company that needed someone to do some development work for them who was "closer to the customer" (in this case closer to their customer in the US - I'm in the US). I basked in the irony for a while and then decided against it.