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Is World of Warcraft More Than Just A Game?
walnutmon writes "Newsweek has published a three page article asking whether World of Warcraft is more than just a game. Though some spend their time in WoW grinding, others take a break from the monotony of gaming to interact with others from the community in a meaningful way. From the article: 'Generally, though, players of the game enjoy a form of community rarely seen in the real world; higher-level players go out of their way to tutor newbies and accompany them on quests. Deep friendships are forged. Relationships begin that flower into marriage, with Tauren brides and Undead grooms tying the knot in some virtual tavern in Thunder Bluff.' I guess the question is, does a game become more when people do more than play to win, or is this just an added feature?" Raph Koster has been of the opinion, for quite some time now, that all MMOGs are virtual worlds; it just so happens you can play a game inside many of them. What's your view on this? Are Massive games just another kind of game title, or are they something special?
Games like WoW have always fostered a feeling of community. Even back in the Dungeons and Dragons days (which live on for many of us) the games offered a feeling of belonging. The difference is a matter of scale. Wow is so massive that this community is much larger, more multifaceted, and has more sub-communities.
Information wants a fueled airplane waiting at the hangar and no one gets hurt.
There is some degree of community in other games, but not in WoW. Unless you consider Chuck Norris jokes community.
that happens to be addictive as hell to some people.. But it is still just a game. Personally I stay the hell away from those sorts of games the same way I avoid crack cocaine and heroin.. Heroin users have a community too. I always used to listen to them talk on the bus in the morning till they all got off at the methadone clinic. Seemed like nice people, but I don't want to join their community.
Yes it creates community, but are they real friendships? Do they share anything in common other than WoW? I have a lot of friends who play WoW (I do not). It's unspeakably annoying to be at a party with a critical mass of these people, because all they talk about is WoW.
I've had to institute a no-WoW rule for some gatherings, since it's simply too annoying for the small number of us who don't play WoW to be excluded from having conversations with these people who are theorhetically our friends because they don't talk about anything else for hours on end.
WoW seems cool, but seriously, try talking to your WoW friends about something other than WoW and see if you would still be their friend without it.
MUDs (precursors to mmorpgs) have noticed this for a long time. The game is cool, and it is what draws people, but the relationships and community is what causes people to stay. This logically leads to stuff like MUD meets (players going to somewhere and hanging out for a few days) and even an occasionally marriage. I'm serious; I know no less than two couples who met in a MUD and ended up getting married.
DYWYPI?
**'Generally, though, players of the game enjoy a form of community rarely seen in the real world; higher-level players go out of their way to tutor newbies and accompany them on quests. Deep friendships are forged. Relationships begin....**
Its pretty conceited to think that only WoW would have a 'community' feeling to it... I call BS, not because I think WoW or other online gaming communities deserve being called BS, but because the story is BS. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of real world places and activities (not that slashdot readers or WoW players would know about real world) to find community experience, and develop relationships through a common interest.... fer christsakes, that is what the world did BEFORE the Internet....
All I can say is that it MUST be a slow news day... geez!
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gee sounds like Star Trek conventions, weekend D&D games, long time IRC channels, Scout Troops, etc. Second life has been doing the same thing without the pesky gaming elements. Nothing special to see here folks...and yes in the end its just a game.
I play games to win.. to crush others and gain respect. Single player games can be beaten.. MMORPGs cannot be 'won' and they have no ending.
I got hooked on Shadowbane more than once in my college career. It's an mmorpg like wow where you just go around killing everyone pretty much (and you can knock down their cities too). It took a long time.. but eventually I had all the best gear for my character. Then I made a new character and got into the politics for the game. So eventually I ran a city.. then I ran a guild.. then I ran a whole entire alliance of guilds that comprised of half the server. Then I got burned out.. I must've played 14 hours a day at that point. I would go without food for hours until I was certain my alliance could function for 30 seconds without me.
So you'd think after all that I'd learn my lesson? No.
I went back into Shadowbane.. because it gave me a sense of accomplishment. Every day, I could find something new, kill someone new, find a new unique viable character build, etc. There is ALWAYS something new to do in an mmorpg. No matter what, you have NOT seen everything. I must've made over 40 max-level characters with the best possible gear. Granted, it only took about 20 hours of game play to get a character to max level once you were good at it - but still it was WAYY too much of a commitment. I began to think of 4-hour game-play blocks as expendable time. Now that I have an 8-5 job, I realize how ridiculous it is to just say "hey.. I can blow the next 4 hours helping a friend get XXX potion to make YYY item."
I'm glad I learned my lesson with just one mmorpg. I think I put multiple college degrees worth of effort into that game.
That game was seriously crack for me. When I was 'addicted' to it, I couldn't imagine my life without it. It depressed me to think of quitting that game.
So ya.. MMORPGs, imo, are more than just a game. WoW just happens to be about the gayest of mmorpgs one can get addicted to - but it still has all the addictive qualities of any mmorpg. If you can't beat it, DON'T PLAY IT (otherwise, you join it.)
--- We need more Ron Paul!
"As Hiro approaches the Street, he sees two young couples, probably using their parents' computers for a double date in the Metaverse, climbing down out of Port Zero, which is the local port of entry and monorail stop. He is not seeing real people, of course. This is all a part of the moving illustration drawn by his computer according to the specifications coming down the fiber-optic cable. The people are pieces of software called avatars."
-Neal Stephenson
The real culprit of WoW's success is depression, in all it's varied forms. WoW represents the ultimate in escapism. Whereas before some of us used books, or even computer games, here's a world that changes based on the player and those playing.
There is never really an end to the world like there would be in a book, or a game. Therefore, those trying to escape find the perfect place to escape to; A place that never really ends.
This goes a long way in explaining the attitude when the servers would go down often ( do they still? ).
I'm not saying this is how it is for everyone, or it's the same level of escapism for everyone. Just that the majority of the addicts are depressed in one way or another, and this is their way to escape from it.
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
To Start this off, I'm going to state that I played WoW for well over a year and a half, From release to just two months ago. I've been a Raiding member in good standing on Malygos throughout the time I played. Yes, wow does foster a huge sense of community, Yes, it does form relationships. Indeed, I know of THREE couples who met, engaged, and married during the course of playing together. (this taken from my ingame relations with... say 200 people on a semi-regular basis) However... Every person I know of who quit seems grateful that they did so, Acting as if they finally kicked some long drug habit, or Finally escaped from some prison. Mind you, I come from the raid game, but there are those who would say that is the entirety of WoW. Take a second and ask yourself why would they be grateful they have quit? geh. the Game is addictive, in the same sense that having a weekly game of pool is addictive. You make excuses to other people IRL to excuse the fact that you can't do anything from 6pm to 10pm mon, tues, thurs, sat, sun. (etc, your raids may very) This is why I think that many people are grateful they quit, and it's the reason I am grateful of such. It gives a sense of freedom from the scheduling of one's time. People will argue, rightfully so, that people schedule thier time for leasure and all sorts of other reasons.. But I think the situation is kinda different when you're trying not to let 40 other people down. ;p
Don't Take this post wrong please. While I am grateful I quit, I met a great bunch of people while i did play, and can actually comfortably say that if I were to end up with just my clothes on my back in any number of about two dozen cities across north america (and one aussie city) I could find a friend that I made in game who'd be nice enough to let me crash there. So that's nice. I've also had my fair share of good memories with friends, Drunk in Strat, or just trying to push the envelope in PvP. the game has and does create a strong community, but it has it's downsides for sure.
Are Massive games just another kind of game title, or are they something special?
What I think is ironic is that people play these games to escape the mundanity of everyday life; the boring, daily grind. And yet, a huge part of a lot of these games is just that, repetitive mundanity that's no different than the world already around us, save for the exotic window dressing and some fancy costumes.
Anyone who's been on second life for five minutes can see that... in a game with limitless possibilities and potential, what do you get? a distilled, amplified re-creation of our own superficial consumer culture.
Push Button, Receive Bacon
The WoW community is far more inclusive than the D&D community. I don't think it's necessarily the core people of the community that make it like that, but merely the differences in the stigma and reputation associated with each.
Let's face it, D&D players are looked down upon by most other people. I'm sure we've all seen scenes in malls, at D&D shops, where a group of teenage jocks or punks start yelling at the customers and employees of such stores. They'll call them a variety of names, from "nerds" to "dungeon geeks", and even "cocksmoking faggots" in some extreme cases. Most of the time the D&D people will remain mature, and ignore the comments. I was with my son, who is slightly nerdy, the last time I saw a scene like that. He even quietly agreed with the harassers. D&D players are sometimes looked down upon by fellow nerds. I really don't know why, but that's just how it is.
WoW, on the other hand, has a far more widespread acceptance. Perhaps it is because it is seen by many as just another computer game. Even those traditionally against D&D have come to play WoW, and have enjoyed it. So if you admit to being a WoW player, you're typically not looked down upon. It's not seen as an abnormal activity, "reserved" for socially-untalented nerds and geeks.
If you are looking for community ATITD would be the game to play if you like to socialize over adventure, EvE if you are into sci-fi and PvP. Just to name few mmogs that have wastly superior 'community' aspect than WoW - old NWN, UO, M59, AC, ATITD, EvE, SB. If anything WoW lacks in player interaction and community when compared to other games in its genre due to heavy use of instances and hard segregation by levels. Best communities are usually formed in games where players need to rely on others for protection from common enemy, trade or achievement of in-game goals. In WoW, aside from grouping, you don't ever need anything from other players. Simple fact that you can reach maximum level without speaking a single world to others demonstrate that community and player interaction is not a strong point of WoW. I find it fairly annoying that WoW given credit for many things its not good at just because its so large and people notice/know about it.
People have been building communities around games for quite some time - from play by mail games to play in real life (such as chess and bridge) to role playing (such as Chainmail and D&D); all without computers. They had factions, newsletters, magazines, romances, leaders, etc. - which mirrored "real life." Not that that was restricted to games - look at any hobby and you'll see similar social constructs. All that the computer did was expand the ease of reach - no more waiting for mail or conventions to "see' old friends.
It's somewhat amusing to think that computers and the internet somehow is creating new "stuff" that has never been before seen; when often all it does is increase accessibility.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
"In 20 or 30 years the technology will be here to create incredibly more realistic and immersive worlds," he says. "There will be a world that fits the fantasy of any life you want to lead." Those deep into WOW, of course, are already living that future. "Yes, it's just a game," says Joi Ito. "The way that the real world is a game."
.When competition for resources gets harsher what mmmorrpg addict will have to show for it? Their ubah leet lvl capped characters in epic gear? Their skills of killing brainless mobs? -guess what those are all irrelevant skills in RL.
In 20-30 years those deep into crack like WoW will have no influence on the real world whatsoever. There are still real life tangible resources (energy for example) and living in virtual world will not make you exempt from basic laws of physics and biology
If MMORPGs like WOW, EQ or DAoC get people riled up like this guy it's hard to argue otherwise.. ;)
And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.
Go into any MMORPG that is developed enough to have a Guild system and you will see a full on society.
There's politics, currency, responsibilities, governments, charters, social contracts, friends going on outings, etc. IThey're nothing short of microcosms of societies that bring out different characters or enhance the characters of real life people.
An example: I'm an EQ addict. I belong to a "family guild" (a guild who doesn't want the focus of their organization to be raid "work" on a nightly basis) who is party of an alliance of "family guilds" whose joint efforts are to do "raiding guild" things. Consider it neighborhoods banding together for a common goal.
Recently, scandal arose when a full-on raiding guild engaged a target that belonged to the alliance. One of our alliance members, very angered, ensured that the target would be unkillable by the raiding guild force and thus brought severe shame on the alliance. Our member, after a "town hall meeting" in the forums, has chosen to disband from his guild and thus the alliance, while his guild decides what's to be done.
Furthermore, some are questioning the value of our raid leader and there is mumbling about asking him to step down.
Friends leave guilds. Guildies left behind are saddened. When a guild who enjoys its members witty banter and opinions disbands, people are actually sad.
People are social animals -- social meaning they require communication. These MMORPGS are 10% game, 90% communication. That's what sucks people in and that's why MMOs are closer to virtual political bodies than checkers and tic-tac-toe.
I learned that the only thing you can "learn" in virtual world which can be applicable to real world is hacking skills. - e.g. when you write aimbot for CS and dll injection -that some system programming skills . Reverse engineering for MMORPG protocols and writing radar programs are pretty good skills too ( you learn a lot about networking and reverse engineering). As well as advanced botting (writing AI for bots to perform action in the game). Getting my hands on CS aimbot and making my own was pretty much biggest gain from 4 years of playing CS ever (and as a good consequence I completely lost interest to FPS for 2 years- when 300 lines of code completely "pwn" any human player you cant help but think of pointlessness of a game)
,especially in competitive PVP, but really you cant apply to RL world directly. - anything from RL world is more valuable in this aspect .
But IMHO very few things in games themselves are actually valuable skills - some basic psychology
Similar experience from an outsider here as well. I don't play the game. I used to get disgustingly addicted to RPG's when I was younger. I'm that sick bastard who not only wants to beat the game, but wants to max out his level and get all the best equipment in the game as well. I've put hundreds of hours into games I could have beaten in less than fifty. I know, therefore I haven't allowed myself to play WoW... as much as it *does* intrigue me. I only have two friends who play WoW... And all I can say is "WoW"... The first friend I knew through the internet. He was very talkative and spent lots of time touring the North America for both work and pleasure. He was a real interesting guy to talk to. Now he's lost his girlfriend and whenever I talk to him he's depressed because he hasn't even met a girl in like 2 years. Its hard to meet girls when you're stuck on a game. In fact, his only 'female interests' have been through the game. Now, I'm not one to laugh too much at meeting someone on a game. I met my girlfriend online and we've been together for over three years now... It does work sometimes, but you've gotta share more than just a game... Eventually theres gotta be more to talk about. My other friend was more on the personal level. We used to hang out and play golf at least 2x a week, we went to the gym together 4-5x a week for a long time. We also spent many weekends partying togeher or just doing guy stuff... xbox, sports, etc... His brother moved in with him and was an addict already. The guy was a complete loaf. Literally every time I was over he was in the same spot, game in front of him, smelling like he hadn't showered for a week. If he got up to pee the couch actually had an imprint of his filth surrounded by the food he left around him. Needless to say, he interested my friend in the game over a time and he began lightly playing. At first it wasn't that noticable.. He'd show up once or twice less to a get together.. or just show up late and leave early... and then we stopped having things to talk about because all that went on his life was work and WoW... he fell out of the loop with all of our groups of friends. Finally his brother moved out and he eventually moved out of his apartment with another friend of his. His friend was also an avid WoWer... so it only got worse. Lets just say this is/was one of my best friends and I've seen him 2x in the last 4 months. Its not for lack of trying.. If any of us call he doesnt answer his phone... He sleeps until 4pm and he's up all night playing until past sunrise. The only time he leaves the house is for work... The same for his roomate. Its sad really. Its sad to see people around me lose their life to a game. He went from a job hopper, doing everything he can to get to a bigger better job, looking out for his future, 2$ raise here, 2$ raise there.. trying to become a millionaire by the time he was 30... to literally being happy working at a warehouse for 8$ an hour because it pays the rent and he has less responsibility so he can spend more time playing WoW. Needless to say, its been pretty easy for me to stay away from that game.
I'm not saying that WoW==metaverse, but a) you're trying to dismiss it on grounds that were acknowledged by the original author and b) there's certain parallels that are actually pretty damn close. The structures and methods of interaction (eg. object trading, avatars walking through each other, online meeting places, etc) in WoW would be familiar to someone who read Snowcrash 13 years ago. That's pretty impressive given the state of online communications back then.
My brother-in-law (for want of a better term) doesn't know my phone number or email address, if he needs to reach me, he'll just send mail to my WoW character. It's not quite an alternative reality, but it can serve as an appoximation of a social setting.
I think that they should enforce laws, like in china where your account only lets you play 3-4 hours a night max. Even though I have heard of people there opening 2 accounts just so that they can get their full fix.
I feel sorry for anyone that starts playing this game. I used to be an avid video game player but have kinda steered myself away from games like this just because I know what the result is. Just like I have tried alcohol or pot , but like another
People that play this game for more than 2 hours a night are just gross and need help immediately. Take up yoga or meditation or anything. Anyone that does any single activity for 4-8 hours a day outside of work should be asking themselves, "what the hell am i thinking". WOW is a sickness, a plague in our digital society. I do security software development for a living and the only single activity I would consider concievably doing for 4-8 hours straight when i get off work, is writing some WOW worm using new exploit/security hole that would use their contacts list and corrupt their registry and give these people a night off. =) although it would be a futile attempt, cause you know they would spend the evening just reinstalling everything.
Honestly though, if you play this game, take a month off and see if you can go without it. If you can't then do yourself a favour delete all your contacts associated with this virtual world and remove the software from your computer (microwave the damn CD).
"Get a life, you only get one!". People in 3rd world countries would give anything to have the opportunities these people have. Instead you rot away in your basement playing shit like this just to make blizzard a profit hahaha.. That's the real joke, someone is making a profit off you rotting in your basement.
How come there has to be some defining limitation between social interaction on-line and off-line? WoW is "more then just a game" because it allows people to interact with each other and form communities, the same way joining a soccer team does. How is this any different for the mind? People tend to get stuck on the "physical", and if you rule your life by exercise alone, then I can see how you would never understand this concept. WoW is more of a virtual world then Myst because of the dynamic context created by other humans interacting with the system. How is a friendship forged on-line any less valuable then a friendship formed with the person down the street? Reality is merely an interpretation of occurances : visual, kinestetic, auditory, etc. The psyche behind the interaction is no less real on-line then it is at the local bar. People can be as fake, or as honest in either world. People can be as open or as isolated in either world. Is WoW a community? Yes, as any game that allows extensive online social interaction is. People who are stuck alone on the "physical" context are limiting their understanding.
Current education of western education system teach kids to win at all cost. New generations thinks life was soccer game, they want to win at all costs.They want see great success in their life time even in 10 or 5 years period.
Because they want to be prove their values.
So in real world there was not enough wars to prove themselves, then they jumps virtual world. WoW was best of the best.
Ps:Please do not argue my english, I just learn that much by myself...
[My english is better than most other people's Turkish, so please point out mistakes politely. Thank you.]
I just cancelled my WoW account, and it will probably stay that way for awhile. I have other interests, hobbies, and games to play. Too long have I neglected the latest and greatest for WoW. But that game IS the most addictive game I have ever played, and it does so by adding a real human element, literally.
One of my favorite things to do with my LVL54 mage was to go back to the lower level areas, and just help the people asking for it. It was my way of giving back to the community. Plus, there is a real ego boost (yeah... I know I sound like a giant nerd) from laying waste to groups of elites by yourself.
There was also some girl I met (according to her... at least) that was really cool, she helped me learn the game for no real reason, other than she was being helpfull, she also had a cool handle, Nemesys. It is fun to play these games, because other people see your accomplishments, and the time doesn't feel wasted. Uhh... for the people who get married on WoW, I think that is kind of weird (I woudln't agree to meet any chick I talked to on WoW, for some strong stereotypical reasons) but it does go to show that this game has real life implications.
Any game that has direct influence on your life, other than the time played, is more than a game, it is a virtual reality of sorts.
You take it, I don't want it...
In 2005 he published Synthetic Worlds. He is/was a mainstream economist who got hooked on Everquest but then used his professional skills to analyze what was going on. He quite strongly feels these MMOGs are more than just games, and in a certain sense are very very real. The book is a good read and Section 3 gives his possible scenarios for the future including potential "mass emigration" to cyberspace and possible governmental reaction.
Huh ?
..... do i have to go on ?
Golf clubs, gun owners associations, bridge clubs, local bingo people, curling enthusiast
almost EVERY single type of shit, and im not only talking about games, have caused people to form communities, for the last known 10000 years of history. And so it is going to be from now to eternity.
So whats there to wonder and amaze about communities being formed in games ? Internet, games over internet form a much more easy way to form communities than the examples i said in above paragraphs.
Read radical news here
2006 called, it just wanted to let you know that its still true. How do I know, Oh, I don't know maybe its because of my volenteer work with teenagers for the past ten years. Its just that RPG's and espeically multiplayer ones are used as a form of socialising outside the accepted nomality. It brings in people who have difficulty expressing themselves and need to hide behind alter egos. Its not that fantasy and rpgs are wrong or stupid, its just it attracts a certain crowd that seeks an alternative identity to the normal one because they can't imagine themselves in the normal one. That being said there are many normal people probley as your self that this doesn't apply to. It is a sterotype that is not always true. WOW is more accepted because when people don't knwo what it is, you can tell them its a video game. Just about everyone has played one at some point and it seems less wierd. I've met many many adults that were not "d&d gamers" that play WOW. WOW is huge. "real gamers" who brag about being "real gamers" really don't affect people who don't want to be "real gamers".
Ok, now for the revelation. Yes I was a D&D player back in the day. And Shadowrun. But I also had normal friends and did normal things with them. And yes they made fun of me for playing D&D. And yes I made fun of myself for playing. No I don't play WOW cause I'm against subscription based games and I want to keep mor etime for doing other things. I don't think I could compete or really enter in the virtual world, I think I'ma ddicted to the real one..... where I post on Slashdot.....
but at least I am who I say I am. No need for AC.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
This isn't really new or unique even to todays graphical MMORPGs.
I used to be on one of the first muds, only available via dialup. The dialup part added to the sense of community since most of us were local. We ended up meeting, having parties, and spent the better part of a decade together on and off.
A few marriages were created and destroyed, children created and destroyed. Really the same kind of thing that happens anywhere where youngish (15-25+ yr old) people unintentially spend a lot of time together.
The military forges similar long-term, deep relaitonships, as does school some office environments and even (to a lesser degree) summer camp.
The trick is spending long ammounts of time with the same group of people.
Having gone through that, I have questions as to how healthy such an environment is. In many cases you have young, under-developed people 13-16 interacting with emotionally immature older people(from 17 to 40!). I'm not sure this combination HAS to be "Bad", but looking back on years of it, I can say that it almost always is.