Slashdot Mirror
Massives As Your Third Home
sleepwellmyfriend writes "What is a third place? The first place is your home, the second place is work. Howard Schultz, founder of Starbucks introduced third places as somewhere besides home or work where people can socialize and feel comfortable. Think Cheers. Massive multiplayer online games are third places as defined by their characteristics: neutral ground, leveler (no not that kind), conversation, accessibility, regulars, low profile, playful mood, and "home away from home". Online games also contain social capital, which like financial capital, can be acquired and spent, but for social gains instead of financial gains. In a social relationship sense, bridging provides breadth (diverse information and resources) while bonding provides depth (comfort and advice). In online games, players come from a diverse background so they are usually bridging social capital but bonding can occur for long time players."
When I first moved, I spent a lot of time in game talking to my old friends and generally just hanging out in game. I spent a lot of time in the house on Corellia. You might argue that it was detrimental to me meeting new people in my new surroundings and naturally adjusting but, honestly, I would have spent the time reading books if I hadn't had an SWG account. I guess that's why it was like pulling teeth when the CU hit and all my friends stopped playing. Oh well, at least I had enough time to meet new people while still having fun with old friends.
My work here is dung.
My first, second and third place is the pub, nuff said.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
So if Second Life is your Third Home, does that work out to 2/3s of a homelife?
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
So you have your 'home' time. Then you have your work time (for real world people, this is 40+ hours a week). And then you want to toss in a '3rd place' time? How much time do you have left?
I mean, sure its great when you are 16 and your 'home time' will consist of playing sports with some kids down the street or watching tv (or video games in this case), your 'work time' is at max 15-20 hours a week, then you have all the time in the world to play an mmo. No need to worry about cleaning or making dinner. Mom has that covered.
But if you arent 16, you work 40+ hours a week, have to come home and make dinner (or go run to the store first to buy it),clean, relax for a bit, toss in a significant other or a child or two, and your mmo time is nearing zero.
We have enough busy things in this world to toss in a 'Third world'.
Are you high? Ask your parents about soda shops, bowling alleys, drive-ins, etc. Then, go read Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam - it's a great look at what he calls the collapse of the American community, because of a lack of these "third places". Good read.
The source of the theory of "third places" is Roy Oldenberg's book The Great Good Place: Cafes, Coffee Shops, Bookstores, Bars, Hair Salons, and Other Hangouts at the Heart of a Community, which has been around for quite some time. Sherry Turkle, in her Life on the Screen, also references Oldenberg. Credit where credit is due. Here is a nice summary of Oldenberg's work.
How do you fit your pretentiousness in the kayak?
I try to be as open minded as possible (see sig). I grew up on a farm in the middle of nowhere Minnesota and have severely lacked the funds to ever travel anywhere -- though I like to think that the books I've read from libraries have made up for this as much as possible. I used to listen to MPR all the time and now that's one of the biggest things I miss but I can stream it at home. We had six in Minnesota with tons of local shows. There is one out here.
I moved to Virginia for work -- there was none for developers in Minnesota at the time. One of the reasons I have had a pretty hard time meeting new people is because it seems a lot of people out here are intollerant of new ideas. There's been more than a few people here that have found out I'm from Minnesota and said, "Oh, so you're from a blue state..." Not everyone is like that out here but the wind sure blows a different way.
My work here is dung.
1st place - Bar
2nd place - What's her names house, the one you met at the bar.
3rd place - Home (You gotta get a change of clothes periodically...
4th place - Oh yeah, work...gotta do that to pay for the 1st three
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
On another note: something I find I do altogether too often in social situations (pubs, parties etc) is put on a "mask", a persona that makes me less vulnerable. In MMORPGs the implicit existence of a mask often means that people can be more "themselves" than they would otherwise. Maybe that's why it's such a good place for some people to relax and interact. Could be that it's doing wonders for the social skills of some people...
People when in public, must, by needs of society, be... well, inhibited by consience. When playing under the guise of an avatar, character, toon, whatever the 'mask' is, you naturally feel that you can show the true personality that lies at the center of your personality. You don't have to hold back in voicing your opinion online, because there is little to no threat of injury or consequence, whereas in the real world you don't always voice your opinion because you don't want to offend anyone.
I've played MMO's for 6+ years now... while I can't always say that the experiences have been totally 100% positive, I consider my time spent in the various games i've played to have helped me to figure out who I am and what my personality is. And it's helped me to focus on what aspects of my life and personality I'd like to improve on. You can learn alot about yourself (and others) when playing an online game, or being a part of any online community. I've sure found enhancements to my social skills from playing MMO's. It does indeed do wonders.
My third place is Home Depot because my first place needs work and my second place doesn't pay me enough to convince someone else to make my first place their second place.
I played Ultima Online for a good while (hence my nick). I'd say that UO itself isn't a 3rd place, but it has lots of 3rd places in it. Some in the form of a virtual version of a real 3rd place such as a bar; in other cases it might be a guildhouse where you'd drop in, meet some friends and then set off on an outing together.
The "neutral ground" aspect definitely holds; there were plenty of MMORPG players just hanging out or poking around a bit, even in WoW. A lot depends on where in the game world you go... just as in real life. If you go to a gym and just park your beer belly at the juice bar and order snacks and booze, expect to be called some real life equivalent of "noob". Conversation may not be the main activity in WoW, but in some areas in UO (And various other games) it most definitely was.
Same holds true for a real life bar. The "leveler" aspect does not mean a total absence of status and mores; it means that those in the 3rd place are (mostly) separate from those the outside world. The point is that a priori acceptance in the 3rd place does not depend on the status in the outside world. Gays, rich folk, religious nuts, they are all equally welcome in most bars... but the regulars might turn a cold shoulder if you openly come out of the closet, brag about your wealth all the time, or start to proselytise.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
This is inevitably going to come off as flamebait to some, but I think it has to be said...
If people but as much effort into constructive pursuits as they put into these games they couldn't help but be very successful. And I don't think there's a real middle ground where you can truly do well and continue to maintain what is essentially a second career within these games.
This is coming from someone who's played a few MMOs... I never invested even a fraction of the time some have put into these games but I still think it was too much time wasted. I certainly wont be making the mistake again.
Truly you are an inspiration to us all sir,
Not only do you do physical activity but you manage to do it with your head firmly up your own ass
Also based on the fact you have decided to post your comment on a website specifically for geeks shows that despite your physical prowess, you are not particularly bright.
I guess people who read books recreationally are the same? Or avid chess players?
Two tears in a bucket. Motherfuck it.
Both are from the Pacific NW. But "A Third Place" is the mantra of Mr Ron Shea not Howard Schultz. He is the owner developer of Crossroads mall, Lake Forest Mall, and importantly Third Place Books and he is the current owner of the Honey Bear Bakery (which lead seattle in the slice of cake and a coffee movement), which no longer exists in its original location.
Third Place describes the environment that he has tried to create at the Malls and the Third Place Books in the old PCC in Seattle. They have large central courts that are utilized by the general puplic, gaming communities (he likes chess it would appear), community theater and concerts. Along with a variety of food.
His idea is creating the "Third Place" that you go to hang out. After work and home.
He has been moderately successful, but not as univerally accepted as you may think. I think he is right that there exists the concept of third places, but alot of them exist spontaneously, (like Cheers) and only up to a size where everyone knows your name. And they aren't as successful larger than that. But the concept is successful enough, and they are very pleasent places to visit.
Both are from the Pacific Northwest. But "Third Place" is the mantra not of Howard Schultz, but of Ron Sher. He is the owner of Crossroads Shopping Center, two Third Place Books stores, and three Honey Bear Bakery stores (which led Seattle in the slice of cake and a coffee movement).
"Third Place" -- the concept described by Ray Oldenburg in his book, The Great Good Place -- is embodied in these destinations that Sher has created. They have large central courts that are utilized by the general public, gaming communities (ie. oversized chess sets exist at all of Sher's "Third Places"), community theater, and for author events and concerts. In addition to the Honey Bear Bakery, some of the locations (including Third Place Books in Lake Forest Park, WA) have entire food courts contiguous with the central courts.
The rest of the parent is subjective, and will not be repeated. See parent.