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OpenOffice.org to Get Firefox Extensions and More

I_am_Rambi writes "OpenOffice.org is set to get new features including Firefox-like extensions. From the article: 'Second, and I think that although we have no clear road map for this yet (besides, our version naming scheme is going to change once again ), OpenOffice.org and StarOffice shall include the Mozilla Foundation's Thunderbird and Sunbird (calendaring application) in the future. Besides the inclusion of those two softs inside the office suite, connectors to Sun Calendar Server and Microsoft Exchange will also be developed accordingly.'"

207 comments

  1. LJ Talked More About Extensions by Noksagt · · Score: 3, Informative

    LinuxJournal ran an article on OpenOffice.org Extensions a couple of months ago. They link to the project wiki and summarize a few extensions, including a grammar checker, Wikipedia integration, and a blog posting tool.

    1. Re:LJ Talked More About Extensions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Calm down. Not every problem can be solved by chair-throwing.

    2. Re:LJ Talked More About Extensions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll love an export/import from mediawiki syntax

    3. Re:LJ Talked More About Extensions by Ash+Vince · · Score: 1

      That's what you get from letting a incompetent cunt run a project.

      "a incompetent"?

      I think you mean an incompetent cunt you illiterate bag of bile.

      --
      I dont read /. to RTFA, I read /. to offend people in ignorance.
  2. Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by Noksagt · · Score: 4, Informative
    OpenOffice.org and StarOffice shall include the Mozilla Foundation's Thunderbird and Sunbird (calendaring application) in the future.
    This is an interesting move. I am Thunderbird and Sunbird user, so am not opposed to this change. I certainly know a lot of people were clamouring for Outlook-like functionality and integration for OO.o. I do wonder why these were chosen over Evolution, which is more like Outlook & already has integrated calendaring. I also wonder why Sunbird was selected--while I'm happy with it, it hasn't yet hit a 1.0 milestone. I still use it in production, but I know others avoid it & I think Mozilla would discourage it. And why Sunbird, rather than Mozilla Lightning, which integrates into Thunderbird?

    Finally, Thunderbird seems to release updates more rapidly than OO.o. Does anyone know how updates will work? Will those who installed it through OO.o immediately get Thunderbird updates? Or will they wait until the next OO.o version bump?
    1. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by cynicalmoose · · Score: 2, Informative

      Moreover, Evolution already has (slightly limited) support for MS Exchange. That's important, because Exchange uses a weird and undocumented version of extended MAPI to interact with clients (i.e. Outlook), which makes building interfaces with it hard. If you want to see Exchange support in Outlook, vote for bug 128284 (bugzilla rejects links from slashdot).

      --
      Exercise your right not to vote. thinkoutside.org
    2. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by Ashe+Tyrael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why not Evolution? Put simply, the windows port of Evolution is still in the "we're trying to get it to work properly" phase, whereas the others are all the same pretty much across all platforms.

      This isn't to say I'm not waiting and hoping for the windows port of Evo, but if they need something there "now" to base their integration on, then they have to choose something thats there.

      --
      "How fine you look when dressed in rage."
    3. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably because Thunderbird is more widely used on Windows desktops than Evolution. It's also probably more widely used on Linux desktops as well, though not by as big a margin.

    4. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      "If you want to see Exchange support in Outlook"

      I want it removed, thanks very much.

    5. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by hswerdfe · · Score: 1

      probably because its cross platform.

      --
      --meh--
    6. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So is Evolution.

    7. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And why Sunbird, rather than Mozilla Lightning, which integrates into Thunderbird?
      Because...

      Thunderbird and lightning-very very frightening me-
      Galileo,galileo,
      Galileo galileo
      Galileo figaro-magnifico-
    8. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "I do wonder why these were chosen over Evolution, which is more like Outlook & already has integrated calendaring."

      Does evolution run on Windows now? If not that is probably why.

    9. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you looked elsewhere in this thread, you would see that it does run in windows.

    10. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by jackhererUK · · Score: 1

      I think it is probably becuase there is no Windows version of Evolution, if open office is trying to be a viable replacement for MS Office on the desktop then it has to continue to fully support Windows.

    11. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As posted elsewhere in this thread, there is a windows version of Evolution.

    12. Re:Questions on Thunderbird/Sunbird Inclusion by Marcus+Green · · Score: 1

      The mozilla tools have a very strong history of supporting Win32 and Linux whereas Evolution has much less history with Win32.

  3. What Open Office Needs... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    What Open Office really needs is not Firebox plug-in, but a complete code rewrite so that it is not a bloated whale of an application. In its current incarnation, Open Office is not anywhere near an alternative to MS Office except for home users and Open Source / Anti-Microsoft zealots who are willing to ignore critical usability flaws.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:What Open Office Needs... by Ant+P. · · Score: 1, Troll

      Okay, here's the source so start helping instead of looking like a whiny baby! :D

    2. Re:What Open Office Needs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Okay, here's the source so start helping instead of looking like a whiny baby! :D

      Don't be such an ass. Typical meaningless fanboy response that has nothing to do with the parent. I do not have to be an application progtrammer to point out that Open Office has usability issues, pull your elitist head out of your ass.

    3. Re:What Open Office Needs... by cp.tar · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Actually, it needs both.

      I'd love to see an office suite designed like Firefox, with simple core functionality (the 10% of capabilities which 90% of people use or so) and extensions/modules (preferably unloadable/reloadable) which would add certain capabilities to those who need them.

      I don't think OpenOffice.org will get a complete rewrite, and I haven't neither the time nor the knowledge to start something new myself.
      A shame, really.

      --
      Ignore this signature. By order.
    4. Re:What Open Office Needs... by Ant+P. · · Score: 4, Funny

      Would you like to point out the bugs you've filed for those usability issues, or would you like to STFU? :)

    5. Re:What Open Office Needs... by kfg · · Score: 3, Funny

      What Open Office really needs is not Firebox plug-in, but a complete code rewrite so that it is not a bloated whale of an application.

      Ooooooooh, I don't know. My instinctive reaction to the story was, "Cool! Now all they have to do is embed an OS and it'll be done."

      Could use a decent text editor though.

      KFG

    6. Re:What Open Office Needs... by chrismcdirty · · Score: 1

      Why would you do that when all you need is an OpenOffice plug-in for emacs?

      --
      It's like sex, except I'm having it!
    7. Re:What Open Office Needs... by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      So if someone were to make an emacs plugin for firefox, would that cause the universe to implode?

    8. Re:What Open Office Needs... by udderly · · Score: 1

      Till then there's abiword & gnumeric. I only load openoffice when I absolutely need to.

      Or when I have an extra ten minutes to kill waiting for it to load. Seriously, the only other Windows application that I have that loads so slowly is that pig QuickBooks.

    9. Re:What Open Office Needs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To summarize the parent, "you don't have to be able to lay an egg in order to smell a rotten one."

      Ha ha--you got pwn3d! Try not to be such a prick in the future.

    10. Re:What Open Office Needs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Writer starts in 8 seconds from disk and 3 seconds when cached, but then again I'm running Gentoo. I agree it's slowish and probably a symptom of the current monolithic design but IMHO not the biggest issue with OOo. I'm heading off to file some usability bug reports so I can get to fix them!

    11. Re:What Open Office Needs... by Marcus+Green · · Score: 1

      Your sweeping, vague and unsubstantiated generalisations do not add to this discussion. Why not be slightly more specific?

  4. Extension I'd like to see by Hahnsoo · · Score: 4, Funny

    Toss in an automatic Term Paper writer extension, and I'm in! Wait, crap, I'm not in school anymore. *sigh* I always felt that I was born a decade too early.

    1. Re:Extension I'd like to see by russ1337 · · Score: 1
      Toss in an automatic Term Paper writer extension, and I'm in!
      But seriously, Is there a plugin similar to the 'APA referencing Macro' for MSOffice? (allows autoformatting and reference placement of references, in the correct APA format for all the types of sources - web/book/journal/speech/tv, with correct punctuation italic etc...

      It was always my crappy formating of the referencing that got me caught out until i started using 'APA refrencin Macro'...

      Also, if anyone knows of a free alternative (apart from learning them), I'd be interested.
    2. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But seriously, Is there a plugin similar to the 'APA referencing Macro' for MSOffice?

      I'm a little concerned by the plug-in trend for applications. I think it is implementing functionality at the wrong level. How much work does it take to create a plug-in to make references like this that work with Word's macro feature. How much effort to make it work with OpenOffice's plug-in system? How much work to implement it once for every application you might want to use references within?

      Mac OS X has introduced system services. One plug-in that works on all text that uses the standard APIs in any program. There exists one for automated formatting of references, by the way. If other OS's would just adopt a similar system, or better yet adopt a standard for all of them, we could remove so much duplication of effort and users would get to choose the best of breed for anything they wanted. I mean one spell checking plugin for Firefox, one built into Word, one built into InDesign, one built into Eudora, and none available for photoshop, IM, IRC, and your favorite text editor is a serious waste and failure to properly use the resources put into these tasks. I'm very unhappy with this trend towards application specific plug-ins when what is really desired is modular plug-ins that can be used anywhere.

    3. Re:Extension I'd like to see by ronanbear · · Score: 1

      KOffice works like that already. It's a great idea and I'd love to see it in operation. OOo would be better off IMHO to split so that the applications can be run in a more standalone manner. This would especially be true for the applications that are typically used in conjunction with Writer such as editing equations, references or SVG graphics.

      --
      the more they over-think the plumbing the easier it is to stop up the pipe
    4. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      KOffice works like that already. It's a great idea and I'd love to see it in operation.

      I believe said functionality only works for KOffice components, though. For example, a grammar checking plug-in that works with KWord will not work with GAIM. Is this still the case? My reliance on these plug-in type services is one of the main reasons I'm using OS X for my primary workstation instead of Linux.

      OOo would be better off IMHO to split so that the applications can be run in a more standalone manner. This would especially be true for the applications that are typically used in conjunction with Writer such as editing equations, references or SVG graphics.

      Agreed. MSOffice and KOffice both provide a better user experience in this regard, in my opinion and experience.

    5. Re:Extension I'd like to see by AuMatar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This idea has been tried, and tried, and tried, and tried. It was called COM, DCOM, CORBA, etc. In reality it just doesn't work- someone doesn't like how the default works and writes their own service, with a new improved API. The user base splits. The end result is everyone writes their own "system level" service. Its a nice idea thats utterly impractical and fails every time.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    6. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The end result is everyone writes their own "system level" service. Its a nice idea thats utterly impractical and fails every time.

      ...except it works on OS X right now and has been working for years. It is probably the second most important reason Linux is not my primary workstation OS. I keep reading how Linux is "catching up" on the desktop, but every time I use it I find it is still behind in vital areas such as this, because no one cares to implement these right and all the people that need or really want these features have moved to OS X and abandoned Linux except for servers. Maybe having one company that can just do it is always going to be the reason Linux lacks functionality. All I know is unless I can use my spell checker, grammar checker, translations, scripts, statistical analysis, dictionary lookups, thesaurus, online resource lookups, text manipulations, biblio reference formatting/creation, and other services in all my major applications and without having to configure preferences separately, I'm unlikely to ever move to Linux.

    7. Re:Extension I'd like to see by AuMatar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      YOu can do that in linux today- use CORBA and/or a shared library. For example, the 2 big libraries for spell checking are ispell and aspell. THe fact is that in practice noone does this. The reason is that when you don't have 1 company driving that "Everyone must use application X", people use what they think is best. Guess what- people differ on what is best. So you end up with an array of products instead of one- for example 4 or 5 major desktops, each with their own API. Its less integrated, but in the end the competition creates better software. The "thou must use X" philosophy only works so long as there's tight central control, and either all software is pushed out new versions simultaneously or you never update the functionality of the core libraries. Works for Mac now because APple writes 90% of the software used. If it actually had 3rd party support, that functionality would die overnight.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    8. Re:Extension I'd like to see by wrook · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Didn't someone mention a Wikipedia plugin?

    9. Re:Extension I'd like to see by mackyrae · · Score: 1

      OOo has a reference thing, doesn't it? I haven't played with it much. I'll have to look. I hope it does MLA (I have no idea what APA or ALA or whatever it all is format their references as) since that's what we always (5th grade through uni) use for school.

      --
      look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
    10. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      YOu can do that in linux today- use CORBA and/or a shared library. For example, the 2 big libraries for spell checking are ispell and aspell.

      That isn't the same thing at all, because a program author has to build in support for that library, it does not work by default on all text you see on that OS. The iChat team at Apple and the Adium programmers (whoever they are) did not sit down and decide to include spell checking functionality in their IM clients. Nor did they decide to provide support for translating German IM messages to English. But out of the box I can check spelling in either and once I download a German to English translation service and drop it in my services directory I can do that too, in both programs even though I doubt the programmers even knew such a service existed.

      Works for Mac now because APple writes 90% of the software used. If it actually had 3rd party support, that functionality would die overnight.

      Apparently you have not used it. It does work in third party programs with no effort on the part of the programmer. That is what makes it useful and valuable.

    11. Re:Extension I'd like to see by abigor · · Score: 2, Informative

      In KDE they are called KParts, and any KDE application can load and use them. For example, spellchecking is used by many apps via a KPart, including the khtml component, which is itself a KPart - so KParts can even use other KParts.

    12. Re:Extension I'd like to see by russ1337 · · Score: 1
      I have no idea what APA or ALA or whatever it all is format their references as
      FYI, there are some others here: http://www.liu.edu/CWIS/CWP/library/workshop/citat ion.htm
    13. Re:Extension I'd like to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      OpenOffice.org does have a database-backed bibliographic manager. You can also use third party products that will manage references and/or generate bibliographies:
    14. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      In KDE they are called KParts, and any KDE application can load and use them. For example, spellchecking is used by many apps via a KPart, including the khtml component, which is itself a KPart - so KParts can even use other KParts.

      Okay, so if I install KDE (I only have a Gnome machine right now) and I install a random application like an IM client. Can it automatically use the spell checker without the programmers having taken that into account? Can I globally install a KPart that translates from German to English and have all my applications suddenly able to do that? Where within the application can I get to that functionality? Is there a reasonable library of these KParts to choose from that I can just drop somewhere and all my applications will be able to use them?

      On OS X I have a spell checker, grammar checker, translation, scripts I wrote, text manipulation scripts, automatic biblio entry generator, dictionary/thesaurus, and online reference lookups that I use daily. If I install KDE can I get all this functionality in my terminal when text editing, my web browser, e-mail, and IM client without coding anything and recompiling? As soon as my new machine arrives, I'll have a KDE setup in a VM for testing, but I'm curious if this is the same type of functionality or if we have a misunderstanding.

    15. Re:Extension I'd like to see by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      THe application has to have support enabled in it- it has to know to call the third party service. They may not know every service- they may have created a framework where user input to text boxes are passed up through a series of plugins. Of course, the problem there is that its sent to every plugin regaurdless of wether the application wants it or not. Huge, huge, huge security hole. Remind me never to go to my banks website on a mac.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    16. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      THe application has to have support enabled in it- it has to know to call the third party service.

      The user calls the service, unless the program author incorporated it in some other way.

      They may not know every service- they may have created a framework where user input to text boxes are passed up through a series of plugins.

      Nope, text the user selects is passed to the service they select. For example If I highlight some text "this works" then select the Safari: Services: Convert: Rotate-13 the text I selected instantly changes to "guvf jbexf" as per my request. I can just as easily run a grammar checker, or lookup the word in a dozen online dictionaries and display the results in a window that pops up. I can further assign application specific or global shortcut keys to these services. The programmers of Safari did not know someone would write a pile of text manipulation services and they don't need to know. It also works in every other program that uses the normal text handling APIs. Also, programs can offer services directly. For example, the data graphing application "Graphviz" is offering the ability to highlight a series of numbers and generate a graphic from it. My layout tools don't know anything about my graphing tool, but if I highlight a table in it I can output a nice vector graphic to go with it without copying, pasting, and opening another application.

      Huge, huge, huge security hole. Remind me never to go to my banks website on a mac.

      It would be, were it implemented by idiots the way you suggest and if people installed random services, but that is not really an issue. And whether you like it or not, this functionality is vital to my work-flows and keeps me from ever having to copy and paste text into MS word from wherever, just to spell or grammar check, and then paste it back, something I've seen happen hundreds of times to Windows and even Linux users.

    17. Re:Extension I'd like to see by ubrkl · · Score: 1

      My Uni has a add on to Word called EndNote. I think it's about $30, so not free unfortunately, but it does a lot of stuff with regards to referencing and you can output references in any number of correct formats, including APA, which my uni also enforces.

    18. Re:Extension I'd like to see by abigor · · Score: 1

      The applicaton obviously has to be KParts-aware. Kopete, the KDE IM client, uses the spellchecker, I believe. So does Konqueror when you're filling out web forms, etc.

      So, to answer your question, no. KParts only work with KDE apps, not any random app you might install. That's reasonable, since you wouldn't expect OS X services to work with, say, Mac OS 9. That said, no Linux desktop will give you the same rich experience you find on OS X.

    19. Re:Extension I'd like to see by The_Noid · · Score: 1

      You can do that in Linux as well. Stardict is an example. You can select any text anywhere, even in a terminal, and stardict will pop-up the dictionary lookup for the selected word.
      Creating a broker that will ask what to do with the selected text is just one step further.

    20. Re:Extension I'd like to see by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well ist is easy to create an small A-Spell Plugin for each of these.

      You simply have to take the funktionality out of the Plugin, put it into a Programm and write several small wrapping-Plugins that interface with the Program. At least it's much easier than finding the one to rule them all.

    21. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      The applicaton obviously has to be KParts-aware. Kopete, the KDE IM client, uses the spellchecker, I believe.

      I'm still unclear on this concept. So Kopete is "KParts-aware." Can I download a KPart that translates English to German and German to English. Can I install that KPart globally, and will Kopete then be able to perform these translations on my chat messages, without the Kopete developers doing any additional work?

      I don't believe shared libraries are an adequate replacement for services because shared libraries need the program developer to include them, and no program developer can know which functions are useful to me. A plug-in system, like Mozilla has and OpenOffice is getting is great, but it is really implementing those features at the wrong level. What I think is needed is a OS-wide plug-in system, the user can add and which does not need the application developer to be aware of it (although they can be for better integration). That was the premise of my original post and, while I'm unclear on the functionality of KParts, it is sounding less and less, like they are OS plug-ins for users and more and more like they are a tool for developers.

      Here's what I would truly love. Apple should define their services API as an open standard and the Linux community should embrace and improve that standard so that Linux distros can all drop the same services packages in their services directories and all new applications will be able to use those functions. I doubt this is practical, but at very least they should clone this feature.

    22. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      You can do that in Linux as well. Stardict is an example. You can select any text anywhere, even in a terminal, and stardict will pop-up the dictionary lookup for the selected word. Creating a broker that will ask what to do with the selected text is just one step further.

      So does the Stardict program have to be running all the time for it to work, or is it separated into a background process and a GUI? Does it modify the OS to accomplish this?

      I think having an official API, dedicated directories for the system, groups, and users in which such services can be placed, APIs for programs to share these features, and an official GUI element (the Services menu in OS X) is a step ahead of the function you describe in Stardict, but if it works, that's great. Maybe all that is really needed on Linux is developer tools for the easy creation and installation of said services. I know my services menu has about 10 entries and 20 directories of subentries. I use maybe 10 total services normally. If I could get this same functionality it would remove one of the two biggest blockers to my moving to Linux on the desktop.

    23. Re:Extension I'd like to see by oohshiny · · Score: 1

      The end result is everyone writes their own "system level" service. Its a nice idea thats utterly impractical and fails every time. ...except it works on OS X right now and has been working for years.

      You are using OS X because of its Services menu? The cluttered thing that most people don't even know what it's for and are loathe to click on? Well, to each their own.

    24. Re:Extension I'd like to see by Kiaser+Zohsay · · Score: 1
      The Developer docs discuss this in great detail. From the linked page:

      The main idea behind components is reusability. Often, an application wants to use a functionality that another application provides. Of course, the way to do that is simply to create a shared library that both applications use. But without a standard framework for this, it means both applications are very much coupled to the library's API and will need to be changed if the applications decide to use another library instead. Furthermore, integrating the shared functionality has to be done manually by every application.

      A framework for components enables an application to use a component it never heard of - and wasn't specifically adapted for - because both the application and the component comply to the framework and know what to expect from each other. An existing component can be replaced with a new implementation of the same functionality, without changing a single line of code in the application, because the interface remains the same.

      The framework presented here concerns elaborate graphical components, such as an image viewer, a text editor, a mail composer, and so on. Simpler graphical components are usually widgets; I refine this distinction in the next section. Nongraphical components, such as a parser or a string manipulation class, are usually libraries with a specific Application Programming Interface (API).

      Similar frameworks for graphical components exist for a different environment, such as IBM and Apple's OpenDoc, Microsoft's OLE, Gnome's Bonobo, and KDE's previous OpenParts.
      So KParts-aware means able to use components in general, without knowledge of a specific component, such as a German-English translator.

      When you said:
      If other OS's would just adopt a similar system, or better yet adopt a standard for all of them, we could remove so much duplication of effort and users would get to choose the best of breed for anything they wanted.
      KParts is exactly what you described.
      --
      I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
    25. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      So KParts-aware means able to use components in general, without knowledge of a specific component, such as a German-English translator.

      Okay, as I said before I don't have a KDE box right now and won't for at least a few weeks. Assuming I download a KParts plug-in for translation of German-English, where do I install it and then how do I access it from within Kopete? I scanned the design docs you link to, but they only seem to talk about how a developer can integrate them and define the interface, not how a user can install and access them.

    26. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      You are using OS X because of its Services menu? The cluttered thing that most people don't even know what it's for and are loathe to click on? Well, to each their own.

      For power users, it is a godsend. I have a list of three main features missing from Linux, but in OS X. Number one is application availability. In OS X, I can run the native programs that work together better than on any platform I've used. I can run Windows applications via an emulator or crossover. I can run Linux/UNIX application in X11.

      Services allow me to customize the functionality of most programs, and share configuration between them. I can use one dictionary and all my apps learn the words. I can reuse my scripts and apply functions to text anywhere with a simple key press.

      Firewire mode updates. In OS X I can move to my new laptop with a few key presses and a short walk to get some coffee. This includes all my programs, user accounts, files, preferences, Web cookies, authentication keys, etc, including my Windows and Linux software VMs. It is simple and foolproof and I don't have to waste a whole day re-installing and then slowly reconfiguring the machine to try to get all my applications back to the same state I had them in.

      If Linux gets these three, things, or even the first two fixed, I'll probably ditch OS X as my main workstation OS. Last I heard, there was some discussion of getting the last one to work, on Apple hardware in one Linux distro, but they decided it was too hard.

    27. Re:Extension I'd like to see by The_Noid · · Score: 1

      Yes, stardict has to be running (it minimises itself to the notification area) as there is no central broker yet for things like this.
      It doesn't have to modify the OS, I suppose it just listens for selection changes (just selecting something in X copies it to the "clipboard")

      I guess it's fairly trivial to make a little program that listens for selection changes but that doesn't do a dictionary search but pops up a little menu so you can select what to do. Add an API for other programs to register themselves with this and you've got what you want.

      What other entries do you get?

    28. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      What other entries do you get?

      On OS X I have maybe 150 options, but only use about 10 regularly:

      • spell checking
      • grammar checking
      • local dictionary/thesaurus replace w/ thesaurus selection
      • multiple, consolidated online dictionaries and acronym lookups
      • create bibliography reference
      • screenshot options
      • quick language conversions
      • statistical summary word/para/char/page count etc.
      • line ending conversions
      • scripts I wrote to run regexps and the like against the text

      I use others occasionally, but they are not as common. The important thing is simply being able to find and download a service when I have some particular need. Since I make my living mostly by writing these days, it strongly reflects my average work day. When I did development, my commonly used services would have been very different.

    29. Re:Extension I'd like to see by Kiaser+Zohsay · · Score: 1

      How it is installed will depend mostly on your distro and package manager. Each KPart is responsible for defining its own user interface (menu items, toolbar buttins, etc.) and publishing that interface to container apps via a .desktop file, so how a KPart is used will depend on what specific KPart you are talking about.

      Also, it seems that Kopete already has a translator plugin, that is accessible from the Tools menu.

      --
      I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
    30. Re:Extension I'd like to see by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      How it is installed will depend mostly on your distro and package manager.

      I actually asked where it is installed, not how. Assuming that does not matter and I can select a KPart in my package manager lets move on.

      Each KPart is responsible for defining its own user interface (menu items, toolbar buttins, etc.) and publishing that interface to container apps via a .desktop file, so how a KPart is used will depend on what specific KPart you are talking about.

      I'm not sure I understand how this would work. Do you mean to say, for example, if I installed a translation KPart it could create an additional menu in the menu bar or contextual of all KDE based applications I use? Does this actually work? Do you know of any such KParts? Is there a list of them?

      Also, it seems that Kopete already has a translator plugin, that is accessible from the Tools menu.

      I'm looking for a way for me as a user, to add arbitrary functionality across all my apps. I'm still a little unclear if this will work (if I restrict myself to KDE apps), or how.

    31. Re:Extension I'd like to see by wyohman · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see them work on a "Start OpenOffice in a reasonable amount of time even if I have Quickstarter already loaded" extension.

    32. Re:Extension I'd like to see by Kiaser+Zohsay · · Score: 1

      Check out the tutorial. It shows how to convert an existing app (in this case an animation player)into a KPart, then shows that KPart embedded in Konquerer, complete with menu options and toolbar buttons, without changing any Konqueror code. Now, Konqueror is highly KPart aware, and will use any components that it possibly can. Whether or not this will work with $RANDOM_KDE_APP will depend partly on the app itself, and how hard it tries to find components, and partly on the KPart and how hard it tries to publish its available functionality. But the framework is there, and it works today.

      --
      I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
  5. A firefox extension? by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

    Seriously?

    And it only took how many years of people begging for this one feature?

    1. Re:A firefox extension? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      From TFA
      First, OpenOffice.org shall get Firefox-like extensions capabilities by the 2.0.4.
      Open Office will get easier to develop extensions similar to firefox and not Firefox extensions

      Second, OpenOffice.org and StarOffice shall include the Mozilla Foundation's Thunderbird and Sunbird (calendaring application) in the future. Besides the inclusion of those two softs inside the office suite, connectors to Sun Calendar Server and Microsoft Exchange will also be developed accordingly.
      I dont think they are integrating Thunderbird/Sunbird into Openoffice. They will bundle Thunderbird and Sunbird with OpenOffice.org and StarOffice suite. See this in the context of Outlook in Office.

      Third, The only objective of the 3.0 will be to make it much more modular and running on tops of frameworks such as Eclipse, Netbeans or Mozilla's XUL.
      They are making the code modular so that it can be integrated easily with other frameworks if required. I dont think they are going to use XUL for Openoffice.

      Finally OpenOffice should get usability expert to change the look and feel. Although 2.0 version was better than the earlier ones, still lot of work to be done.
  6. Yeah, but what I want to know by overshoot · · Score: 5, Interesting
    ... is whether they're even considering items that have been highly-voted on requests for several years.

    Examples: Gallery import between versions, or the all-time champion outline view -- the longest-lived request with a huge votecount, declared by quite a few professional writers and educators as the show-stopper keeping OpenOffice.org out of their offices and schools. Apparently the team has other priorities.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Speaking as a professional writer, I don't see the advantage that an outline view has over the current Navigator (in case you haven't used it, it's a floating outline view that can be used for quick navigation). But then, speaking as a professional writer, there is no possible way in which you could convince me that a WYSIWYG word processor is the right tool for any jobs I have; they are toys for people who have grown out of finger painting, not tools for people who deal with large quantities of text.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by kfg · · Score: 1

      . . .they are toys for people who have grown out of finger painting, not tools for people who deal with large quantities of text.

      I still have a mark from the last time I said something like that. Thanks for volunteering to take the hit this around. 'preciate it.

      KFG

    3. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by sydb · · Score: 1

      Your opinion might have more credence if you didn't couch it in abusive language. For most people, a WYSIWYG word processor is exactly what they need for writing letters, reports and such like. You may have specialist (special?) needs but that doesn't make a toy of the tool most people use.

      --
      Yours Sincerely, Michael.
    4. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      But then, speaking as a professional writer, there is no possible way in which you could convince me that a WYSIWYG word processor is the right tool for any jobs I have; they are toys for people who have grown out of finger painting, not tools for people who deal with large quantities of text.

      I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you. As a professional writer I can apply and test formatting much more quickly using a WYSIWYG editor in combination with a view of the underlying markup than I can using a non-WYSIWYG editor and then periodically testing it. Using just one editing mode, is a serious disadvantage and while maybe you don't think you'll ever use such functionality, you have to respect the desire of others to have more. Especially for writers that use graphics as an integral part of their writing and make use of it for layout, a non-WYSIWYG view is simply too slow and cumbersome.

      Note, I'm also not a huge LaTeX fan. I've used it. It works. It is even the best solution for certain categories of projects. I just recognize that it's a pile of hacks to make up for the fact that it was not originally intended to support graphics or color and that the toolset is inappropriate for many tasks.

      I look forward to the day you undertake a particular type of project and realize just how painful it is in LaTeX or another markup tool, compared to a professional, WYSIWYG tool.

    5. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by sherms · · Score: 1

      I agree and would have to add another complaint with, just giving basic verbal instructions of going to the sight and downloading it and after its loaded, the lack of templates and clipart. Then I have to give them to many more instructions which then is the turn off. Also any suggestions for this?

    6. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by benjonson · · Score: 1
      But then, speaking as a professional writer, there is no possible way in which you could convince me that a WYSIWYG word processor is the right tool for any jobs I have; they are toys for people who have grown out of finger painting, not tools for people who deal with large quantities of text.

      Really? What about Framemaker? What kind of professional writing are you doing?

      --
      =-+
    7. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by Sparr0 · · Score: 1

      For most people, a WYSIWYG word processor is exactly what they need for writing letters, reports and such like.

      No, it really isn't. What they need is a text editor and a good letter/report/etc wizard/template/whatever. Giving users control of layout when they probably only want, and definitely only need, control of content is a BAD IDEA.

    8. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by sydb · · Score: 1

      I said people, not users. Difference.

      --
      Yours Sincerely, Michael.
    9. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention the problems with useless note function, which is another show-stopper.

      It has also passed the 5 year mark a long time ago.

      http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=6 193

    10. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      Really? What about Framemaker?

      Framemaker is not a word processor, it is a desktop publishing application. There is a huge difference between the two, although most word processors try to pretend that they are desktop publishing applications these days (and fail, miserably).

      Framemaker was the tool used to typset the last book I worked on, and it's okay. There were a few things I didn't like about it, but it's not bad. The thing is, it's not a writers' tool, it's a publishers' tool. Writers need to be able to generate structured text quickly. Publishers need to be able to lay it out and make it pretty. A lot of the time I write plain text using vim and just use some simple markup to indicate structure, and a sub-editor handles all of the layout for me. For larger projects my personal leaning is towards LaTeX; there's literally nothing a Turing-complete typesetting system can't do... (and I've accumulated a large library of LaTeX macros that I've written over the years which make most projects very simple and let me get on with my job; writing)

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    11. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by oohshiny · · Score: 1

      I just recognize that it's a pile of hacks to make up for the fact that it was not originally intended to support graphics or color and that the toolset is inappropriate for many tasks.

      LaTeX and troff have been used nearly from day one for professional writing including graphics and they handle that job the way they were intended to, and the way that its users need them to.

      Especially for writers that use graphics as an integral part of their writing and make use of it for layout, a non-WYSIWYG view is simply too slow and cumbersome.

      When you're doing layout, you're not a writer, you're a layout editor. LaTeX is not a good layout editor for fancy layouts, but then its users don't need it to be. I'm sorry if you need to supplement your writing with layout editing, but other people don't have that problem.

    12. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      LaTeX and troff have been used nearly from day one for professional writing including graphics and they handle that job the way they were intended to, and the way that its users need them to.

      Umm, I've used LaTeX and no, the early tools did not support colored text or graphics and anyone who has ever looked at the markup can see the hacks used to make it work. It stresses consistency, but at the expense of sensible inclusion of more advanced features. They are hacks.

      When you're doing layout, you're not a writer, you're a layout editor. LaTeX is not a good layout editor for fancy layouts, but then its users don't need it to be. I'm sorry if you need to supplement your writing with layout editing, but other people don't have that problem.

      If you think layout and editing are completely separate tasks, fine, although hundreds of famous authors who were very meticulous and unwavering about the layouts of their books might disagree. The important part of writing is expressing information, and layout, text formatting, and graphics are integral parts of that. Otherwise, just use plain text and vi and you're all set. If, however, you're trying to make a professional book, you may need to include graphics and layout that is very, very painful in LaTeX and very easy in Framemaker or Quark. LaTeX is a layout program, more than a text editor. It is just not a good one for some jobs.

    13. Re:Yeah, but what I want to know by oohshiny · · Score: 1

      Umm, I've used LaTeX and no, the early tools did not support colored text or graphics

      You're wrong. TeX and LaTeX supported graphics from day one. troff came with pic.

      If you think layout and editing are completely separate tasks, fine, although hundreds of famous authors who were very meticulous and unwavering about the layouts of their books might disagree.

      LaTeX gives you very fine control over appearance, something that I value greatly as an author. It simply frees me from having to do layout editing. I'm sorry if you don't understand the difference.

  7. Nice to see they are not blind by moore.dustin · · Score: 1

    I was happy to read all of this, but mostly the part about Microsoft Exchange. Some would view all of this as a fight vs Microsoft(Office and otherwise), but that is not a good fight or anyone. Not ignoring Mircosoft Exchange is important for allowing people to actually ditch MS Office. Taking on MS Office itself and not making this a fight vs Microsoft is the smart thing I think. We often see and read about companies looking to take on the whole behemoth instead of just competing in a certain market. Google and Apple seem to the be companies people look at when they talk about bringing down Microsoft.

  8. Why not Evolution by overshoot · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I do wonder why these were chosen over Evolution [gnome.org], which is more like Outlook & already has integrated calendaring.
    If it were me, I'd say it's because Evo is a toad, complete with hard-coded URLs. Gag.

    However, it's not me -- it's Sun. And for Sun, the deal-breaker is that Evolution is GPL-licensed. The Mozilla license is much more suited to their private-branding model.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:Why not Evolution by shoegoo · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd guess another reason for choosing Thunderbird/Sunbird is that they already have working ports on other platforms (granted Sunbird is still not of great quality). The last I heard about the Evolution Windows port was that it was finally compiling...

    2. Re:Why not Evolution by Kunta+Kinte · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And for Sun, the deal-breaker is that Evolution is GPL-licensed.

      Oh yeah, Sun hates the GPL

      --
      Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
    3. Re:Why not Evolution by Nutria · · Score: 1
      If it were me, I'd say it's because Evo is a toad, complete with hard-coded URLs. Gag.

      However, it's not me -- it's Sun. And for Sun, the deal-breaker is that Evolution is GPL-licensed. The Mozilla license is much more suited to their private-branding model.


      Let's not forget that Tbird is cross-platform, whereas GNOME apps are iffy (if at all) at running on Windows.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    4. Re:Why not Evolution by otis+wildflower · · Score: 1

      GNOME apps (er, rather, GTK+ apps) work pretty well on Windows. Assuming, of course, you don't have a GTK+ version mismatch that requires you to run multiple versions of GTK+.

      (I'm lookin' at _you_, GAIM! Play nice with the latest GIMP please!!!!!)

    5. Re:Why not Evolution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evolution works under windows & there is even an installer for it.

    6. Re:Why not Evolution by i.of.the.storm · · Score: 1

      If you're wanting to run gaim at the same time as Gimp 2.3.x/2.4 when it comes out, download portable gaim and copy over pretty much everything that's not in gaim by default (the dlls basically, and three or four folders.) This will allow gaim to continue to use gtk+ 2.6.10a while the installed version might be different.

      --
      All your base are belong to Wii.
    7. Re:Why not Evolution by gkhan1 · · Score: 2, Informative

      While this is true, GTK not only looks strange on windows, it even looks quite bad. Let's face it, ported GTK applications are not pretty. They look great on Gnome, simply because that was what they were made for, but on windows...shudder...not so much.

    8. Re:Why not Evolution by otis+wildflower · · Score: 1

      Who cares bout pretty, I just want a single client that does AIM, Yahoo and Jabber without paying extra, and something that I can use to make stupid animated YTMNDs.

      The brain-damage is that GAIM isn't keeping up with GTK+. Meh, I can survive with Trillian + Google Talk.

  9. Sounds good... by HatchedEggs · · Score: 1

    One of these days when they get a great calendar program built into Thunderbird I'll consider migrating from Outlook. As is though, without an excellent calendar I won't really consider it as I need that functionality. And before anybody tries to point this out, no, I don't find any of the current add-ons to be adequate.

    --
    Justin - Don't be afraid of my blog, it won't bite.
    1. Re:Sounds good... by captjc · · Score: 1

      This is not a troll but a genuine and serious question. Do you really find it necessary to have a PIM (tasks, calender, notes,etc.) integrated with your email? There are plenty of good email clients and plenty of good PIMs out there. But is there really a huge advantage to the integration between the two?

      I currently use Thunderbird and Palm Desktop. The two separate, at least for my needs, suffice. Maybe it is just out of my range of use, but I, personally, have not really understood why the two must be integrated.

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
  10. Open-source feature bloat? by Alan426 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is anyone else worried about this becoming a gratuitous push to add new features? Why should OOo include Thuderbird? If I want that application, it's not difficult to install the latest version from their own distribution. It seems to me that refining the core functionality and compatibility of the office applications should be a higher priority than bloating it up with unrelated features.

    1. Re:Open-source feature bloat? by ElleyKitten · · Score: 2, Insightful

      OpenOffice wants to take marketshare from Microsoft Office. One block in convincing people to switch is the lack of an Outlook equivalent. Sure, people can go to Mozilla.com to get Thunderbird, but it's hard to convince people that OO is an MS Office replacement when it doesn't have an equivalent to their most-used program.

      --
      "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
  11. Evolution on Win32 by Noksagt · · Score: 1

    I have used Evolution on Win32. It mostly works and it looks like development binaries are also reasonable. I wouldn't consider it much more alpha than Sunbird. I suspect that other comments on the GPL are the more likely explanation.

  12. So... by cp.tar · · Score: 1

    ... it's kind of like Emacs now?

    --
    Ignore this signature. By order.
  13. Professional writers by overshoot · · Score: 4, Informative
    But then, speaking as a professional writer, there is no possible way in which you could convince me that a WYSIWYG word processor is the right tool for any jobs I have; they are toys for people who have grown out of finger painting, not tools for people who deal with large quantities of text.

    I quite agree that if your output is primarily text, you're much better off with LaTeX or the like. Gorgeous results without the constant distraction of formatting.

    However, there are a lot of professional writers who have to integrate high proportions of graphics into their work, and for them a WYSIWYG tool is quite appropriate. The ability to restructure a document (the big missing feature in the Navigator) is a serious handicap there.

    I'm not a professional writer, I just sleep with one.

    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
    1. Re:Professional writers by fireboy1919 · · Score: 1

      have to integrate high proportions of graphics into their work, and for them a WYSIWYG tool is quite appropriate

      I would say the opposite. It is much more important that you don't use a WYSIWYG tool when you've got graphics. You want to be able to say "I don't know what page this is going on, but when it gets there, put it in the upper right corner and cause the text to flow around it seperated by a 10 point border." ...or other things like that. WYSIWYG editors are very bad at this. Especially Word. Writing a 30 page word document that includes pictures is insane. Adding new things and reformatting takes forever due to Word's horrible reformatting problems.

      Of course, I can see why you might think that. People who work with graphics are often graphic designers...and a lot of those people cringe in fear at the thought of actually doing anything at all outside of a WYSIWYG. So a WYSIWG, while much worse at actually getting things done, is the only thing that they can use.

      --
      Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    2. Re:Professional writers by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would say the opposite. It is much more important that you don't use a WYSIWYG tool when you've got graphics. You want to be able to say "I don't know what page this is going on, but when it gets there, put it in the upper right corner and cause the text to flow around it seperated by a 10 point border." ...or other things like that.

      If you've ever used Framemaker or Quark or InDesign, you'll know those are WYSIWYG tools designed exactly to address this issue and there is a reason almost the entire publishing industry uses them.

      WYSIWYG editors are very bad at this. Especially Word.

      Word is WYSIWYG, but it is not really a layout tool at all. If you're trying to use it for the wrong task, you'll have a lot of problems. Now go try a real WYSIWYG layout tool and notice how easy it is.

      Adding new things and reformatting takes forever due to Word's horrible reformatting problems.

      Here's an exercise. Take LaTeX and Adobe InDesign and go build a 50 page magazine including five or more graphics on each page, with good, but unique layout and colors on each page. Note that they are both using the same layout engine, but one of them offers a WYSIWYG mode in addition to a text/XML editing mode. Notice one of them lets you insert, scale, set transparencies and filters on graphics easily and one is a huge pain in the ass.

      You don't have to be a graphic designer to appreciate the difference. Even working with highly technical explanations of engineering manuals that follow a very formulaic layout, you can't deny that Framemaker is simply easier to use, make edits and use all those crazy features like graphics, color, and hyperlinks that are hacks in LaTeX.

      and a lot of those people cringe in fear at the thought of actually doing anything at all outside of a WYSIWYG. So a WYSIWG, while much worse at actually getting things done, is the only thing that they can use.

      I like vi. I hack PHP and a little C together and build custom XML formats and help systems. I prefer to do my HTML work in a text editor instead of a WYSIWYG. That does not mean WYSIWYG is better or exclusively what I want to use for all, or even most word processing and layout tasks. It's time to stop speculating as to why those poor incompetent "graphics people" are using WYSIWYG tools and actually evaluate them and notice that they are the best UI for some jobs.

    3. Re:Professional writers by richlv · · Score: 1

      The ability to restructure a document (the big missing feature in the Navigator)

      hmm. what did you mean by that ?
      you can promote & demote chapters, change their levels and so on from navigator.
      or is that some other kind of restructuring you want to be able to do from the navigator ?

      --
      Rich
    4. Re:Professional writers by jmv · · Score: 1

      However, there are a lot of professional writers who have to integrate high proportions of graphics into their work, and for them a WYSIWYG tool is quite appropriate.


      ...or a WYSIWYM tool.

  14. Oh come on... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    So you're telling me that writers, doctors, teachers, students, shop owners and other people who use word processors also need to learn to be programmers before they can dare to suggest that Open Office has usability issues? Come on! I'm just pointing out something that has been pointed out over and over again. It would be nice if Open Office offered a real alternative to MS Office, for many reasons. But the folks who do know how to fix Open Office have to admit that these flaws are a critical roadblock to the adoption of Open Office in a broader context than hobby and fringe users. Smart-assed fanboy comments like "well, why don't YOU write the code" do nothing but alienate the majority of users.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Oh come on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To summarize the parent, "you don't have to be able to lay an egg in order to smell a rotten one."

    2. Re:Oh come on... by ElleyKitten · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You don't have to be a programmer to file a bug report. If you want to complain about the usability of OO (or anything open source), then complain to the people who can actually fix the problems. It would be mroe productive than whining on a message board.

      --
      "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
    3. Re:Oh come on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      You don't have to be a programmer to file a bug report. If you want to complain about the usability of OO

      What makes you think I haven't? What makes you think other people haven't? You seem to assume that the Open Office people are "all over" the code bloat / usability issue. I don't see it. What I see is "digging in" around a codebase that has issues.

    4. Re:Oh come on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get this kind of crap at almost every job. Don't complain to me, I'm just the clerk, you have to go up. That usually shuts them the fuck up, because people like to whine to the little guy, not to the big guy.

      all of a sudden their precious time they spent moaning and bitching dissappates due to "impatience" or "lack of time". B.S.

      Everybody knows information flowing upward in any organization is slow, tedious and usually gets misdirected.

    5. Re:Oh come on... by ElleyKitten · · Score: 1
      What makes you think I haven't?
      I didn't say you. I don't even know who you are, Mr. Anonymous.

      What makes you think other people haven't?
      I would assume they have.

      You seem to assume that the Open Office people are "all over" the code bloat / usability issue.
      No, I don't. I have no idea what the Open Office people are doing. I use KOffice.
      --
      "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
    6. Re:Oh come on... by ikeleib · · Score: 1

      At the last OOcon, there were three talks about making the code more modular and two talks on performance. If you watch Michael Bemmer's talk (http://ooocon-arnes.kiberpipa.org/media/OOo_2x_an d_beyond_Michael_Bemmer/video.ogg), you will see that they are aware of the performance and modularity problems and working very hard to fix it.

      In slashdotese:
      "You don't know WTF you're talking about and STFU"

  15. eclipse-esque architecture? by kartracer_66 · · Score: 1

    I have no idea what the architecture of open office currently is, but it would be neat to see a more complete plugin architecture like in eclipse. Everything could be a plugin and reduce some of the bloat people seem to complain about. For instance, the spreadsheet and writer could really just be different plugins. I'm sure this is much much easier said than done.

    I'm not exactly sure what "more modular and running on tops of frameworks such as Eclipse, Netbeans or Mozilla's XUL" at the end of the article is supposed to mean, but maybe this is what they're getting at?

  16. APA Style by overshoot · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Also, if anyone knows of a free alternative (apart from learning them), I'd be interested.
    You can always give LyX a try -- it's LaTeX based and has APA styles that let you fill in the blanks for publication-quality output.
    --
    Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  17. Re:But the real question is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    probably when you decide to use a -real- UNIX

  18. The real answer is... by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

    When will NeoOffice (Mac-native OOo) stop sucking so hard?

    About six months after Microsoft discontinues Office for Macintosh.

    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:The real answer is... by MsGeek · · Score: 1

      And Microsoft will discontinue Office for Mac when Apple adds a spreadsheet app to iWork.

      --
      Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
  19. Now, OpenOffice viruses! by Animats · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A new attack vector!

    OpenOffice should not have plug-ins. Why copy Microsoft's mistakes.

    1. Re:Now, OpenOffice viruses! by VJ42 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why copy Microsoft's mistakes.

      I think they are looking at it from the point of view of copying Mozilla's sucesses.

      --
      If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
  20. Re:Still have a mark... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Well it would help if either of you would go on to describe what you do use and what you do with it. Professional writers and can't even do that?

  21. Resistance is futile. by Kadin2048 · · Score: 4, Funny
    It's just the natural order of things, as expressed by Zawinski's Law of Software Development:

    Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.
    --
    "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    1. Re:Resistance is futile. by Nutria · · Score: 1
      Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.

      Well, incorporating Tbird is much better than them writing their own MUA from scratch...

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    2. Re:Resistance is futile. by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      If that is the case, it seems there ought to be a corrollary that all programs ought to, for the sake of continued viability, start out as mail readers, and then have other functions added. Then you don't have to worry about it.

  22. Good for XUL by Gavin86 · · Score: 1

    It seems like this could be a great opportunity, if the XUL adaptation works out, to spread the Mozilla framework! Kudos to OO's asperations, they are certainly in for an undertaking

    --
    "Progress comes from the intelligent use of experience."
    1. Re:Good for XUL by cortana · · Score: 1

      Because what we need is more programs that look and feel like crap on all the platforms they run on.

      Admittedly in the case of Openoffice.org the situation would not get any worse than it is already. :)

    2. Re:Good for XUL by Gavin86 · · Score: 1

      I suppose, if you have had those experiences. Personally, I have not.

      --
      "Progress comes from the intelligent use of experience."
  23. I think you mis-read by brunes69 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They don't mean they want to run OO.org *on top of* Eclipse or XUL

    They mean they want to re-structure OO.org to be modularly based and run on a GUI framework, *like Eclipse and XUL do*.

    1. Re:I think you mis-read by Goaway · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He did not mis-read. They say exactly what he read it as. Maybe they meant something else, but that is not what they actually wrote.

    2. Re:I think you mis-read by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      No, I think they meant specifically using an existing client platform like the Eclipse RCP or Netbeans platform or XUL.

      This is different from running on top of the the Eclipse IDE or Netbeans IDE, though.

  24. Has anyone though of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what that would mean to gentoo users??

    openoffice and the mozilla bros are already update monsters, so i don't really want to know what would happen if they become one....

  25. Wow, OSS groupware that works with Exchange by bogie · · Score: 1

    It's 1999 all over again! I predict similar results to almost ever other OSS project that tries to tackle this type of software. Ie software that never gets past the Alpha stage and a solution that relies on some proprietary connector that only works partly.

    btw I realize there are some decent OSS groupware project going but the ratio of mature workable solutions vs projects that get announced with big fanfare, promise ease of use, and full Exchange compatibility is about 1,000 to 1.

    --
    If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
  26. just like IE,activeX and MSoffice! by kemo_by_the_kilo · · Score: 1

    wow so now we have a new way to breach security...... its just like IE,activeX and MSoffice!
    and they say OSS is always playing catchup...

  27. What's "a Soft" ? by jabberw0k · · Score: 1

    "Besides the inclusion of those two softs inside the office suite,"

    Surely they mean "these two packages" or "these two applications." You can't have "a soft" (or "a software") any more than you can go buy "a hardware."

    "Software" and "hardware" are the same things as "ketchup" and "water" -- collective nouns. Despite fast-food jargon, you don't have "one ketchup" you have "one packet of ketchup;" you have not "one water" but "one glass of water." If you have one ketchup, that might be Heinz; Perrier is one water, Evian is another.

    Someone call the Grammar Police, quick!

    1. Re:What's "a Soft" ? by rlazarus · · Score: 1

      I coded three softs in the time it took you to write that.

  28. Exactly by gr8_phk · · Score: 1

    Is OOo trying to turn into a general distribution of cool software? I hope not. I think they need to stick to the software that they develop and leave the other apps to the other teams.

  29. Really weak vision by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I think that this is a really weak vision. Integrating a calendar and mail program doesn't really do any big wonders for the office workers. People can already use existing mail and calendar applications and some of them integrate ok with OpenOffice.org. What I'd like to see is features for collaborative work and other groupware features.

    I also fear that the code base for OpenOffice.org is too heavy and difficult to work with. I foresee a long time when almost nothing will happen while they rewrite the core. This is exactly what happened to Netscape and for the same reason: The code base was so convoluted that it wasn't possible to work with.

    Seriously, I think that KOffice is the future of free office suites. It is developing incredibly fast and they have far more apps in the suite already. I read an article at the KDE news site that some students had implemented pretty advanced stuff in just some short Google Summer of Code projects, and I don't believe that could happen for OpenOffice. When they release 2.0, it will run on Windows AND OS X and from then on it's just a matter of more features. Mark my words... You read it here first.

    1. Re:Really weak vision by vhogemann · · Score: 1

      I agree with you.

      When I read the topic the first thing that came to my mind was "But they should be trying to reduce the bloat, not add more!".

      What I really want to see from OpenOffice is the ability to install separated applications... I shouldn't be forced to install Impress and Calc if I only wanted Writer...

      --
      ---- You know how some doctors have the Messiah complex - they need to save the world? You've got the "Rubik's" complex
  30. Re:Still have a mark... by kfg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Well it would help if either of you would go on to describe what you do use and what you do with it.

    I did that -- when I got the mark. I'll give it another shot, but promise not to hit me.

    I favor vim myself, but your milage may vary. The point being that when I am writing I concentrate on . . .writing. The words. Formating for printing is a completely seperate thought and physical process and should be treated seperately with tools specialized for the job.

    Back in the day I was an advocate of the development of WYSIWYG editors. I thrilled when I actually first got to use one. It turns out I was wrong. It happens. I was especially wrong about wanting black on white. That really sucks when you're spending long hours at the monitor. I neglected the fact that paper reflects light and a monitor emits light. Live and learn.

    WYSIWYGs add nothing to the writing process, often serve as a distraction and are poor at actual desktop publishing functions.

    They have their place; and I use them (in fact I use Open Office), but that place is really for simple letters and such, not for either serious writing or serious printing. A middle of the road "toy" tool for middle of the road "toy" jobs.

    Which makes it a reasonable tool for the actual, average job.

    KFG

  31. Re:But the real question is... by MsGeek · · Score: 1

    NeoOffice? I think you have misspelled iWork.

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
  32. Happy Happy Joy Joy ! by monopole · · Score: 1

    I would be in heaven to be able to bring up a google or wikipedia search with the "select-right click" in a document !

    1. Re:Happy Happy Joy Joy ! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or integration with Intellext's Watson tool...

    2. Re:Happy Happy Joy Joy ! by amber_of_luxor · · Score: 1

      I would be in heaven to be able to bring up a google or wikipedia search with the "select-right click" in a document !

      There has been a macro that allows tht since whenever OOo 1.1.3 was relesed.

      amber

      --
      Wind Beneath Thy Wings
  33. Endnote anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have played with getting people off msoffice and in science there is
    this issue called Endnote.
    I love XUL/XBL/etc... but find the documentation on the hard parts lacking.

    So, why not scrap open office and make a word processor in mozilla and
    then create the Endnote plugin.

    That would seriously eat the ms$ for all academics could not only get rid of
    office but also winblows.

    Yes, of course there is still the issue of games...but that is not a factor in the labs

  34. Re: Exchange support in Mozilla by bunratty · · Score: 2, Informative

    On the other hand, if you want Exchange support in Mozilla, vote for bug 128284.

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  35. Oh NO! by c6gunner · · Score: 2, Funny

    They CAN'T bundle firefox with openoffice! The grammar and spelling nazis will die of loneliness!

    1. Re:Oh NO! by digitalhermit · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, the new product will be called, "Open Fire!".

      Word on the street is that that the Pentagon doesn't want this in use by the military. Especially if your name is Will.

  36. Would you elaborate please? by CdBee · · Score: 1

    I'm curious - I know nothing of the way professional writers work but I'd imagine you face different issues to most of us : what do you need?

    --
    I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
    1. Re:Would you elaborate please? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great sig: "I didn't support Apartheid in S.Africa so why should I accept it in Palestine?"

      However, race and ethnicity are not the same thing. Apartheid was based on racial segregation, while the conflict in the Middle East runs through ethnic lines. Know the difference before you run off quoting.

    2. Re:Would you elaborate please? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1
      However, race and ethnicity are not the same thing.
      Race and ethnicity are both arbitrary socially constructed us/them divisions that map poorly, at best, to any underlying biology. They are pretty much exactly the same.
    3. Re:Would you elaborate please? by JewGold · · Score: 1

      If race and ethnicity are just arbitrary, why are there diseases that only affect members of a certain ethnic group?

      --
      Is this a news report or a trailer for a motion picture?
    4. Re:Would you elaborate please? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1
      If race and ethnicity are just arbitrary, why are there diseases that only affect members of a certain ethnic group?
      There are diseases that are far more prevalent in particular races or ethnicities becaue while most racial and ethnic categories map poorly to underlying biology, they do have some loose and very approximate connection to ancestry groups.
  37. Its a language thing by CdBee · · Score: 1

    In some languages, "soft" is used for software

    --
    I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
    1. Re:Its a language thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you actually read the rest of the post, even on the assumption soft is an abbreviation of software, it is still gramatically incorrect.

  38. Speaking as a power editor: OO SUCKS! by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    For the people whose text I edit, OO may be adequate. But it's not yet, and maybe never will be, a tool for serious editing. Speaking as a professional writer and editor who has used both the MSWord and the OO outline views, MSWord's outline is orders of magnitude better. I see a measurable difference in productivity when I have to do substantive editing on a document in OO, not just the spelling checks and wording tweaks that some people call editing.

    MSWord lets me reveal levels, open and close paragraphs or entire sections full of paragraphs, drag and drop sections, promote and demote sections, and edit text all in the same window. That violates the principle of "don't make the user switch focus when they are in the groove" concept of GUIs. It is the main reason I'm still using Win2000 and MSOffice, and why I am reluctant to recommend OO to anyone who will need to do substantive editing. It's awkward as hell.

    The enhancement request for a better outline view - specifically a request to make it work just like MSWord's outline view, has been in the request queue for years and has a lot of comments explaining exactly why it is a good enhancement. Don't tell me, "It's open source, go ahead and do it". If I could have fixed it, I would have fixed it you gits. But, it's easier for me to stay with MSWord than learn to program ... for which the folks in Redmond are undoubtedly grateful.

    Similarly, a request for the ability to do overbars on text as easily as underlining has been in the queue for several years, requested by people who write the datasheets for the chips in computers the OO programmers work on. Forget the equation editor, its contents can't be searched or replaced like text.

    Why doesn't the OO team (or almost any other FOSS project team take other professionals seriously when they tell you what features they need the mnost? Yes, MSFT is also of the "we'll tell you what you need", but at least they gave me a decent outlining tool ... it's one of the things they got right early on.

    1. Re:Speaking as a power editor: OO SUCKS! by Marcus+Green · · Score: 1

      What average size of documents do you work on (i.e. word count?)

    2. Re:Speaking as a power editor: OO SUCKS! by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 1
      Usually under 30,000 words with very simple styles and formatting, although I've had 300-pagers that were stable.

      The things that Word most often gets wobbly with are huge tables, multiple list formats, and lots of applied style overrides.

      If I were doing something list-heavy, like those awful DOD numbered para sub-para documents, I would not use Word. It doesn't do complex lists very well at all.

    3. Re:Speaking as a power editor: OO SUCKS! by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 1

      I have some novelist friends who use MSWord for 150,000 word novels ... with plain text and chapter headings only it's really stable.

  39. Endnote, Zotero, and other Bibliographic Notes by Noksagt · · Score: 1

    I am also in need of good citation support & am a bit of geek about it (I am a co-developer of refbase).

    There are a few issues with your post.

    An office suite is A LOT more than a bibliographic management system & it would not be a small task to implement it in XUL in Firefox. There have been a number of online word processors & they haven't yet seen great success.

    The other thing is that Endnote is not that great of a bibliographic manager & there are more serious attempts to replace it. Zotero for Firefox will be worth watching. The new MS XML format has metadata support for citations. And OO.o has the bibliographic project to add citation support to OO.o. Bruce D'Arcus's blog is worth following.

    1. Re:Endnote, Zotero, and other Bibliographic Notes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thanks Noksagt
      I was not aware of Zotero and the blog is also very interesting

      I will also give refbase a try soon

      thanks again

  40. RTFM dude, RTFM by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 1

    It is much more important that you don't use a WYSIWYG tool when you've got graphics. You want to be able to say "I don't know what page this is going on, but when it gets there, put it in the upper right corner and cause the text to flow around it seperated by a 10 point border."

    Say what? One of the core principals in technical writing is making sure the text and the graphics relate to each other effectively. WYSIWYG is the easiest way to make sure it happens. I've been using WYSIWYG editors to produce user manuals since the mid 1980s, starting with a beta copy of Ventura Publisher 1.0 20 years ago.

    If you are having problems with short Word documents that contain pictures, I suggest you RTFM and learn how to use styles to control flow, stop inserting blank lines to force layout, and how to paste in pictures so they are in-line text objects and not floating.

    1. Re:RTFM dude, RTFM by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      If you are having problems with short Word documents that contain pictures, I suggest you RTFM and learn how to use styles to control flow, stop inserting blank lines to force layout, and how to paste in pictures so they are in-line text objects and not floating.

      I agree with you that WYSIWYG editors are very suited to this task and it is entirely possible that they are having issues because they don't know how to use Word. There is another class of people, however, who do know how to use Word, but still have problems using it for these tasks, because of some of the deficiencies of Word. It really does have a poor formatting engine that makes very poor choices about kerning, consistent placement, and spacing. The fact that it is inconsistent between Word versions, makes it even more of a pain. For advanced users that want the same precision as LaTeX, but using a WYSIWYG editor Adobe Indesign, Framemaker, or Quark is a better option. They also handle long documents and many graphics better, as you probably already know.

  41. Re:But the real question is... by imemyself · · Score: 1

    Have you checked out the 2.0 betas of NeoOffice? They are a pretty big improvement over previous versions. Still slow, but OOo is always slow. It's pretty pathetic when running a starting Microsoft Word via Crossover office takes less time that starting OpenOffice Writer.

    --
    Every time you post an article on Slashdot, I kill a server. Think of the servers!
  42. Holism is good for the usability by SlOrbA · · Score: 1

    I think this is great not in the short time, but in the long run.

    What realy is needed is non segmented office suite that has pervasive applicability, pervasive supportability, zero initial investment for single user and free extendability. In fact we need a Eclipse equivalent of a office suite.

  43. recipe for disaster by hswerdfe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    recipe for disaster:

    Take Massive One Highly Bloated And Slow Open Source Application
    Mix well with Second Highly Bloated Open Source Application.

    Stir and run.....then wait.....

    seriously OOo is way slow an bloated.
    Useful yes, but SLOW!

    This Is not a good idea, I generally don't like half ass attempts at "Integrating" programs.

    either build the Program from the ground up as an API and integrate them fully.
    or don't do it at all.

    --
    --meh--
    1. Re:recipe for disaster by enmane · · Score: 1

      "This Is not a good idea, I generally don't like half ass attempts at "Integrating" programs."

      except that you might not have been around when version 5.2 of StarOffice WAS integrated AND worked MUCH faster than OO of today. I, for one, WANT/NEED one program that does everything well and has great cross-communication. We HAD that at one time with Stardivision's version of StarOffice. Sun ripped it away and are starting to realize their mistakes but with the mistake of releasing it on this crappy and bloated code-base that they've created instead of the zippier original.

      I say, go back to the drawing board - i.e. 5.2 and build from there.

    2. Re:recipe for disaster by Nimey · · Score: 1

      GNU has made great strides in getting Emacs closer to being able to boot.

      --
      Hail Eris, full of mischief...

      E pluribus sanguinem
  44. What professional writers need by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 1

    Finally someone asks the right question. And the answer is ... it depends. It depends on whether we are writing, editing or doing layout. The choice of tool changes with where we are in the project, what the final output will be, and what the budget supports.

    For writing and text-hacking, content shuffling and document restructuring, MSWord is my tool of choice. It gets me to the final draft and through the review cycles. As I said in another post, OO gets in the way when a document needs radical surgery.

    The "layout tools", like FrameMaker and Quark Express (I've used them both), suck at text entry and editing, and are they meant to - they are PAGE LAYOUT tools with minimal text editing capabilities. If I know the final output has to be in FrameMaker or Quark, I'll set up MSWord so the style names match and import the final text. Unless someone messes up the styles, the text imports and "wallah" it's laid out. Then there is some pixel tweaking, graphics insertion and it ships.

    For the bulk of my work, MSWord is good enough. I'll never win any awards for typography with the user manuals I produce with it, but they are easy to read and most importantly, cheap and easy to produce and maintain.

    1. Re:What professional writers need by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      The "layout tools", like FrameMaker and Quark Express (I've used them both), suck at text entry and editing, and are they meant to - they are PAGE LAYOUT tools with minimal text editing capabilities.

      While both are a bit heavy for text editing, I've never had problems entering text in either of them.

      If I know the final output has to be in FrameMaker or Quark, I'll set up MSWord so the style names match and import the final text.

      I have had serious issues using Word for text editing, including crashes for large files, poor optimization for lots of graphics, corrupting large files on save, and random errors in the text. I much prefer a simple XML file as input to a layout program, using an easy XML editor. It is more portable for input to multiple tools and end products, is much faster than Word, is much more reliable than word, and lets me apply spelling, grammar, translation, etc. tools more easily. It is also a lot easier to store in versioning systems and supports condition text easily for import, unlike Word. Since almost all layout tools support automated updates of these files, I don't have to re-import many times to get all my end products updated with a minor edit.

      I guess my experience differs from yours, but I strongly recommend steering clear of Word for anything you do professionally, especially if you have better tools available.

    2. Re:What professional writers need by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 1

      While both are a bit heavy for text editing, I've never had problems entering text in either of them.

      That's probably because you can actually TYPE! I rarely do straight text entry, I do a brain dump and then edit it, which sucketh royally in a page layout program.

      [me]If I know the final output has to be in FrameMaker or Quark, I'll set up MSWord so the style names match and import the final text.
      [99BottlesOfBeerInMyF]I have had serious issues using Word for text editing, including crashes for large files, poor optimization for lots of graphics, corrupting large files on save, and random errors in the text.

      There are ways around some of those problems, but if it's a BIG document, Word will go flaky. I was talking about using Word for getting text ready for the layout software - the writer's draft that no one else gets to see.

  45. Re:But the real question is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My sister is running these on her shiny new MacBook (1.8Ghz, 1G), and it starts within 5 seconds. This is compared to about 1 minute on my 12" PB 1Ghz / 768M. I don't know if this is due to better Intel optimizations or what, but it is pretty snappy!

  46. Re: Exchange support in Mozilla by Kunta+Kinte · · Score: 1

    On the other hand, if you want Exchange support in Mozilla, vote for bug 128284.

    Chances of this happening is slim to none, unless some funds the 10,000's of man-hours necessary to do this.

    It's not just extended MAPI they want to implement since MAPI is an API not a transport protocol. They need to reverse engineer MS's private RPC implemention, on which some private variant of MAPI is used. Good luck to the poor soul tasked to do this.

    License-wise, this does not save you anything either, since every exchange CAL comes with an Outlook seat ( it's been a while since I checked this out, so I may be wrong ).

    --
    Based on upvotes, Ageism is the only "-ism" Slashdotters care about and think isn't SJW
  47. Being ignored by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 2, Interesting

    You don't have to be a programmer to file a bug report. If you want to complain about the usability of OO (or anything open source), then complain to the people who can actually fix the problems.

    I have. I have been ignored. And so have the other non-programmer professionals who have had the same requests for improvement.

    1. Re:Being ignored by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting how your comment echos the grandparent, but the grandparent was modded "flamebait". Slashdotters just can take constructive crit.

  48. And yet one STILL cannot Office Macros correctly.. by ancient_kings · · Score: 1

    so what's the point? Given almost all of business have some sort of collection of Office Macros?

  49. Doesn't have to be that way by Comboman · · Score: 1
    A new attack vector! OpenOffice should not have plug-ins. Why copy Microsoft's mistakes.

    There are a few things they can do to make sure OOo plug-ins don't turn into MS Office VisualBasicScript-type attacks.

    1. Make it impossible to embed a plug-in into a document. Even if a document requires a certain plug-in, embedding it for quick installation (or even worse, auto-installing it) would be a very bad thing. The most it should do is pop-up a message reporting what plug-in is missing and link to the trusted site where it can be downloaded (see below).

    2. Make it so plug-ins must be signed and/or can only be downloaded from trusted sites (at least by default). Firefox works this way now (sort-of), but it's a little too easy to turn it off.

    3. Limit what plug-ins can do (read-only file access, write-access only to certain file-types, no internet connections, etc). Unfortunately, this also limits the usefulness of plug-ins. At a minimum, it should prohibit access to system files.

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
  50. Don't bundle multiple different runtime platforms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An extension system is always a great idea.

    But bundling mozilla apps with the OO suite is not. Why not just cooperate to provide compatible API calls? So that if someone has those moziila apps, they can interact well with the OO apps. They could recommend them as OO compatible and provide links for download... but tightly coupling new applications that rely upon entirely different dev platforms goes completely against the whole point of extension systems.

    How many widget sets does one suite need? IIRC they use the Java JVM to flesh out their database connectivity and multimedia libraries. Do they use swing or SWT at all? AFAIK The NeoOffice ported the whole interface to Swing to get that Aqua look and feel. Now they're going to add in XUL?

    Mozilla is a complete development platform.
    Java is a complete development platform.

    There's overhead to loading those instead of relying on the OS library directly as the development platform.

  51. Re:Still have a mark... by melandy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Formating for printing is a completely seperate thought and physical process and should be treated seperately with tools specialized for the job.

    You're preachin' to the choir here. A while back my parents wrote a novel, and went to one of those self-publishers. The publisher required that work be submitted in MS Word format. Why, I don't know, but those were the rules.

    They also required that you use the margin and indentation controls within Word to control formatting. Sounds like a reasonable rule (to me).

    Unfortunately, mom and dad quickly forgot that rule, and thought that as long as it "looked right" on the screen, then it must be OK. They had some paragraphs that used the margin controls, some that used tabs, and some that even used *cringe* a bunch of spaces to control indentation.

    Same thing for page breaks. Sometimes they used page breaks, sometimes a bunch of CRLFs!

    AAAAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!1!11!11one

    Bet you'll never guess who got the happy chore of helping them fix it.

    They are talking about writing a sequel. I told them that unless they write it in notepad, I'm not helping.

    -melandy
  52. Gentoo Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are binary versions of OO.o and Mozilla in portage. Sunbird is only available as a binary.

  53. Quote of the decade for open source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't tell me, "It's open source, go ahead and do it". If I could have fixed it, I would have fixed it you gits. But, it's easier for me to stay with MSWord than learn to program ... for which the folks in Redmond are undoubtedly grateful.

    This quote needs to be hammered into EVERY open source programmers thick skull. Hell, I'll pay to have it tatooed on their damn foreheads.
    If everyone involved in all open source projects understood this quote, the open source world would be actually kicking MS's ass up and down across every project and program out there. And we would actually have REALLY useful open source programs, that don't need more excuses than lines of code in the program.

    1. Re:Quote of the decade for open source by porl · · Score: 1

      perhaps the money that you so kindly would spend on this would be better spent *paying someone to write the features you are missing*. you are happy to pay for MSOffice, so perhaps you shouldn't spend so much time bitching about something you can get for free. if you don't want it, fine, but others do. it's not perfect, but it is getting better all the time, and if they had the funding that microsoft has (yes i know it is a sun sponsored program, but that is still nothing compared to what the funding for msoffice is) they would be able to fix problems faster. be patient, offer help, or just shut up.

    2. RE: Quote of the decade for open source by captjc · · Score: 1

      It is not always the programmers who are saying "It's open source, go ahead and do it" for every suggestion that comes along. It is usually assholes on forums (and the such) that make snarky comments like that. But, as the end user, you have to realize that programmers are not gods that can just snap their finger and make the feature magically appear. Many OSS projects are just a guy or a small team. Many write and maintain these projects more as a hobby or a labor of love and have outside lives and jobs. Suggestions and fixes need to be prioritized. An outline view will probably have a lower priority than the dozens of bug fixes as well as prioritized features that are explicitly wanted by the team themselves (road-map features). Also, jobs are prioritized by level of importance, not how quick they are to implement. A feature may only take a line of code, but it could still be way less important than fixing a major security flaw.

      The Openoffice team, (I am guessing here), is probably a small to medium funded team of programmers. Their priorities are for bug fixes (which in an application like OpenOffice, is probably quite a bit) and Road-map features (probably requested by Sun, again I am guessing). They would be lucky to get to any user-requested features within their given time frames.

      I am not saying that all programmers are decent, respectable people that care what the users want and implement their wishes if they can. Many are, but there are still a few jerks in the bunch. But what I am saying is don't blame the programmers just because your feature doesn't get implemented. It is all a matter of what is important. Ideally, every reasonable feature would be added, but sometimes the answer is "no", or at best, "If we get around to it".

      --
      Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
    3. Re:Quote of the decade for open source by overshoot · · Score: 1
      you are happy to pay for MSOffice, so perhaps you shouldn't spend so much time bitching about something you can get for free.
      That's a sunk cost. Notice that TDN wrote that she's using MSO2K, not the latest. Also, we might as well get used to the idea that companies long ago justified the cost of MSO as part of basic computing. It's not on the agenda, and if we want to put it on the agenda we're going to have to overcome issues like TDN's.

      Don't waste bandwidth telling me this isn't prudent decision making, that companies could put MSO only on TDN's desk and let the letter-writers use OO.o -- the sky on that planet is a different color. We're stuck with the craniorectally contorted management that lives on this one and we may as well act accordingly.

      --
      Lacking <sarcasm> tags, /. substitutes moderation as "Troll."
  54. LMAO, Openoffice of tomorrow looks like SO of 2000 by enmane · · Score: 1

    I've posted on numerous occassions about the mistakes in leadership at Sun with regards to StarOffice and Openoffice and the splitting of the packages. Well, it looks like the OO of tomorrow will start looking like the StarOffice of 2000 (Pre-Sun purchase).

    Can anyone else say - DOH! The only difference is that the OO of today runs at least 10x SLOWER than the SO of 2000. It's hard to get behind a project that shoots itself in the foot, calf, and thigh so often.

    Just imagine what they could have accomplished in the 7 yrs if they left the original interface alone and improved the backend.

  55. Signed? by Animats · · Score: 1

    Signed code? Signed by whom?

  56. curious by treak007 · · Score: 1

    It is very interesting that they choose Mozilla Thunderbird over Evolution, which one would think to be your best choice in an integrated calender, contact, memo, email enviroment like M$ outlook.

    --
    Klingon Software is not released, it escapes, inflicting terrible damage onto the enemy as it does
  57. Re: Exchange support in Mozilla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are already open source implementations of Exchange (both client and server).

  58. Usefull by masticina · · Score: 1

    Perfect, I missed en email client and yes I missed an calender. Now I have to say that Thunderbird is pretty grown up for an email client, somewhere between outlook express and outlook itself. The Calender though, when I tested it, it surely was still not really that ready. It might need a bit of work to make the perfect calender tool.

    Still I applaud it as this will give the office suite so much more completion!

    --
    Codefile Defected to another Hexadimal Range refresh your CHAOSTACK.NLM file with a new copy
  59. The right tool for the right job! by BeeBeard · · Score: 1

    One of you is vehemently arguing oranges...ORANGES! The other is scolding you for not using apples.

    Just give up fighting and let the LaTex nerds have their due. You've got to understand that they firmly believe that their software is ideal for every single possible application out there, instead of just good for a few specific things (i.e. Tex with math formulas is amazing).

    Me? It kind of creeps me out to embed symbols in text that's going to be put to a page, because it takes me back to the dark days of using Perfect Writer. WYSIWYG writing is an absolute godsend for me, but I certainly don't use it for everything. I'm a published fiction writer myself, and these days I use FreeMind for fiction writing. I find that it really helps to take me from the brainstorming phases to the first key pages pretty easily. It's an invaluable tool for any kind of writer, and it can be whatever you want it to be--an outlining tool, a planning aid, etc. You might want to check it out. :)

  60. The fat just get fatter by cptnapalm · · Score: 0

    So bloated software just got bigger?

    What does that make it?

    Morbidly obese software?

  61. Re:Still have a mark... by Millenniumman · · Score: 1

    You seem to be combining WYSIWYG and word processors. I think the concept of word processors is broken. If you just want to get words down, use a plain text editor or a specialized novel writing application. If you want to make something presentable, use a page layout application.

    But what is wrong with WYSIWYG for page layout? It allows immediate results and easy editing. Even with the best editor set up, you still have to glance up from your HTML/TeX code to see what the document looks like. With WYSIWYG, you are directly editing it. Using something like HTML requires that you read through the code to figure things out instead of just looking at it. I find it hard to connect formatting code with an actual document.

    --
    Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
  62. is Sunbird ready for this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like this whole idea, with one major caveat: Sunbird is not ready for this. We'd all be using it instead of Evolution if it were. If Sun contributes improvements back to Sunbird like Google does with WINE and other projects, then it's a win-win as far as I'm concerned. But as it stands now, I don't think I want any of applications touching Sunbird.

    I understand the myriad of reasons for not using Evolution. It's a great product, but it doesn't run well on non-Unix platforms (ie Windows) and Sunbird does. Also, while Sunbird is immature, Evolution is mature to the point of bloat, and the last thing thing OOo needs is more freaking bloat.

    OO is bloated, but let's not look a gift horse in the mouth. It opens all of my MS Office documents flawlessly, and it's free. For that, I can live with bad startup times and spaghetti code under the hood.

  63. Re:Still have a mark... by kfg · · Score: 1

    You seem to be combining WYSIWYG and word processors.

    Open Office as an authoring tool was the context.

    I think the concept of word processors is broken. If you just want to get words down, use a plain text editor or a specialized novel writing application. If you want to make something presentable, use a page layout application.

    Yes, that's what I said.

    But what is wrong with WYSIWYG for page layout?

    Nothing, per se, so long as it is a well thought out and implimented page layout tool. It's not something I'm a specialist in though. When a specialist's touch is really needed my text gets passed on to one. I'll note, however, that I haven't used one that acts as a front end for a human readable formating code that gives me code I wouldn't be a bit embaressed about writing myself, that with a bit of exposure you start to "see" in your mind what the code will print like and that the idea of WYSIWYG HTML is a broken concept foisted upon the computer world by dead tree publishers/designers/PR flaks who just couldn't deal with the idea that they didn't have authoritarian control of the output.

    KFG

  64. Ugh... by Rix · · Score: 1

    Extensions are nice and all, but OpenOffice needs to be removing java dependancies, not adding them.

  65. Re: Exchange support in Mozilla by kimvette · · Score: 1

    The Exchange Connector from Ximian Evolution provides an OWA implementation, right? It may be low, but for outfits looking to migrate to OSS solutions where possible, or true interoperability, but are stuck with Exchange for the time being, it's one option. The connector is open source and should not be discounted as a code base, or if nothing else, a point of reference. So, the tens of thousands of man-hours you're referring to (reverse engineering) is not a necessity.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  66. Re: Exchange support in Mozilla by bunratty · · Score: 1
    Chances of this happening is slim to none, unless some funds the 10,000's of man-hours necessary to do this.
    Why does TFA say "Besides the inclusion of those two softs inside the office suite, connectors to Sun Calendar Server and Microsoft Exchange will also be developed accordingly." then?
    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  67. Hello, Weight Watchers? by kitzilla · · Score: 1

    OpenOffice.org and StarOffice shall include the Mozilla Foundation's Thunderbird and Sunbird (calendaring application) in the future

    Oh, good. Open Office sure needed to get bigger. ;-)

    --
    This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
  68. Hyperlinks in LaTeX by d^2b · · Score: 1

    Even working with highly technical explanations of engineering manuals that follow a very formulaic layout, you can't deny that Framemaker is simply easier to use, make edits and use all those crazy features like graphics, color, and hyperlinks that are hacks in LaTeX.


    I won't argue about graphic layout; this is simply outside my expertise. But for making hypertext documents,
    LaTeX+package hyperref+TeX4ht+pdflatex works extremely well and produces nice HTML and PDF documents from
    the same source. For the working academic, the ability to take the same material and
    format it as a web page, poster, presentation, and a paper is pretty valuable. I know that other packages
    can do the same; I've never been very impressed with the quality of the PDF or HTML from Word.

    Probably we are agreeing here, except that I wanted to note that there are a whole class of hyperlinked
    documents for which LaTeX is a good solution (even ignoring the fact that it is the only thing I really know
    how to use)

  69. How much programming does $10 Cdn get? by Tsu+Dho+Nimh · · Score: 1

    perhaps the money that you so kindly would spend on this would be better spent *paying someone to write the features you are missing*.

    I see that copies of MSOffice (legal surplus inventory) are selling for as low as $10 Cdn on eBay. I think I paid $40 a couple of years ago for the same package. How much programming will that buy?

  70. euphemism by oohshiny · · Score: 1

    I think calling it "private-branding" when a company makes public source code proprietary is a bit of a euphemism.

    If this decision is really based on Sun's business considerations, then it is a black eye for the OpenOffice project; an open source project should make decisions based on the best interests of its users, not based on the proprietary interests of one of its commercial sponsors. Furthermore, the rest of OpenOffice is GPL, so what's the problem anyway?

    As for Sun, they have, of course, gotten away with this sort of thing multiple times. People like to talk about how oh-so-generous Sun's release of Solaris tend to sweep under the rug that Sun's operating system is based on BSD and originally developed with taxpayer funds at Berkeley.

  71. too messy by oohshiny · · Score: 1
    For some reason, OpenOffice.org extensions have yet to capture developers' imaginations the way that Firefox extensions have. For every OpenOffice.org extension, there must be 20 or 30 for Firefox.

    Well, one reason is that for every OpenOffice.org user, there must be 20 or 30 Firefox users.

    But another reason is this:

    OpenOffice.org extensions are a quick way to add functionality. Writable in a variety of languages, including Java, JavaScript, OpenOffice.org Basic, Python, and C++, they allow developers to contribute features without having to master much of OpenOffice.org's notoriously cryptic source code.


    Firefox has a fairly consistent extension architecture, and most people seem to write and share their Firefox extensions in Javascript. Giving developers more options is not such a good idea because it reduces the ability to build on one another's work.

    In addition, many platforms with a successful plug-in architecture provide means of managing and downloading plugins from within the application. If that exists in OOo, I have never come across it.
  72. Some people wouldn't use OL even if you paid them by tepples · · Score: 1
    every exchange CAL comes with an Outlook seat

    But is Microsoft Outlook secure against malformed messages? (Why do reviewers call it "LookOut!"?) And does it run on operating systems marketed by entities other than Microsoft, such as Mac OS X or Ubuntu Linux?

  73. you're confused by oohshiny · · Score: 1

    Take LaTeX and Adobe InDesign and go build a 50 page magazine including five or more graphics on each page,

    It is not the job of professional writers to lay out magazine pages. In fact, that's not their job even if they supply the graphical content. And it doesn't make sense for professional writers to use layout software to do their writing.

    The people who lay out magazine pages are layout editors. They get the text from the writer, the graphics from the graphic designers and photographers, and then put it all together using layout software.

    1. Re:you're confused by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      It is not the job of professional writers to lay out magazine pages.

      No it isn't. It was an example of the types of tasks someone writing and laying out any kind of document may face, where WYSIWYG editors are vastly superior.

      The people who lay out magazine pages are layout editors. They get the text from the writer, the graphics from the graphic designers and photographers, and then put it all together using layout software.

      For small publications, sometimes one person is many of these things. For publications other than magazines, many times an author needs to write, edit, and perform layout work. For example, I use Adobe InDesign to layout an instructional "brochure" type document that walks a user through the process of installing and configuring a really expensive specialty server. It is a functional document, but includes numerous diagrams and images showing connectors, screenshots, etc. I write the instructions and generate the graphics and layout the document. Trying to do this in LaTeX would be extremely painful and slow by comparison and the results at best, would be the same.

      As for content creation, a layout tool is rarely the best tool (I use an XML editor), but sometimes editing is best performed once the layout work is already accomplished for the most part. In these cases, you do a lot of alteration of the text, within the layout application. To claim that this mode is useless, and WYSIWYG interfaces are useless for writing and layout and we should all be using LaTeX for all tasks is simply foolish.

    2. Re:you're confused by oohshiny · · Score: 1

      There are three things we know about WYSIWYG and markup: (1) users generally prefer WYSIWYG, (2) users rationalize their preference by saying that they're more productive with it, and (3) when you measure it, they are actually more productive using markup.

      In different words, you may not believe it, but you'd almost certainly be more productive using markup languages for technical documentation, images or not. That's why many big companies force their technical writers to use markup languages.

  74. Re:But the real question is... by porcupine8 · · Score: 1

    Yes, I love iWork's spreadsheet program. Oh, wait.

    --
    Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
  75. whining by oohshiny · · Score: 1

    Number one is application availability. In OS X, I can run the native programs that work together better than on any platform I've used. I can run Windows applications via an emulator or crossover. I can run Linux/UNIX application in X11.

    Perhaps the reason why you have such a low opinion of Linux/UNIX applications is because you're trying to run them under Apple's X11 server; running applications under Apple's X11 breaks most of the desktop integration (in addition to having really lousy performance). On my Mac, I leave X11 off pretty much all the time because it's so poorly implemented and integrated; when I need to use X11, I use a real Linux system.

    Services allow me to customize the functionality of most programs, and share configuration between them. I can use one dictionary and all my apps learn the words. I can reuse my scripts and apply functions to text anywhere with a simple key press.

    Linux has hundreds such services built-in, including, among other things, services for spell checking across applications, reformatting text, etc. OS X services provide only a tiny fraction of that functionality, and in a way that is much harder to extend and not particularly convenient to use. OS X tries to imitate some of the "little shared tools" approach pioneered by UNIX, but it doesn't really succeed.

    Firewire mode updates. In OS X I can move to my new laptop with a few key presses and a short walk to get some coffee. This includes all my programs, user accounts, files, preferences, Web cookies, authentication keys, etc, including my Windows and Linux software VMs. It is simple and foolproof

    It is simple, but unfortunately, it doesn't work completely: some settings and some applications don't make it. After moving from one Mac to another, it usually takes several days until I have figured out all the little missing bits and pieces and reinstalled them.

    In any case, it's actually simpler under Linux: if you copy your home directory, all your user-related information is transferred; there is nothing else to copy. There is no user-specific customization on the machine other than the list of applications (which you can transfer with a single command). That's no accident, because traditionally, UNIX and Linux users use the same home directory on many computers simultaneously.

    Overall, people like you will never be satisfied with Linux: Linux has all the capabilities you want, you're simply unwilling to learn how it works. That's fine--feel free to use whatever you like--but stop badmouthing platforms you are apparently not very well versed in.

  76. Good Move by sgntPepper · · Score: 1

    This is a brilliant move on the part of OO, just as with Firefox extensions that we cannot yet dream of are going to become almost essential to our productivity. We won't be able to switch to Microsoft Office even if we want too because our favourite extensions won't work with it.

  77. Woo Hoo! Let the MIGRATIONS Begin by dave562 · · Score: 1
    Besides the inclusion of those two softs inside the office suite, connectors to Sun Calendar Server and Microsoft Exchange will also be developed accordingly.

    In the corporate world, Exchange equals three things: email, contacts and calendaring. If OpenOffice is able to offer the same levels of calendering functionality that Exchange does, it will be a severe blow to the Exchange empire. Once there is a *nix equivalent to wireless ActiveSync of calendering information, I think that OpenOffice will be on par and become a more viable route for Linux to make inroads into the monopoly.