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Novell to Launch Quick-Response Linux

Krishna Dagli writes to mention a C|Net article about Novell's upcoming real-time Suse Linux Enterprise product. From the article: "Real-time operating systems can respond to external events within a guaranteed time frame, a feature that mainstream business computing doesn't generally require but that's necessary for some areas, such as aircraft radar. But in a move that indicates the flexibility of Linux, Novell plans to begin selling the real-time variant of the open-source operating system next month."

15 of 69 comments (clear)

  1. from the that's-awful-fast dept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    from the that's-awful-fast dept.

    It could take me a week to respond. As long as I respond within that week and a week is all that's needed, I'm realtime.

    Realtime is not about speed, it's about fixed time intervals.

    1. Re:from the that's-awful-fast dept. by packeteer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But those fixed time intervals are almost always faster than the lag time you run into from non-realtime OS'es. Windows is of course the clunker we think of first but my linux machine is sometimes not completely responsive and snappy when i clink something.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    2. Re:from the that's-awful-fast dept. by random+coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This isn't true. Those fixed times are almost always slower than the average response time on a non realtime os. The real-timeness adds overhead, thus slower execution and less throughput than a gpos. The only place a real-time system is faster than a general purpose is in the worst case wich is bounded in on the real time os but can be quite large and is usually unknown on a gpos.

    3. Re:from the that's-awful-fast dept. by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, I find windows apps on a stable clean machine to be very responsive, however move to a .net application and they become noticably painful, every action is like a webpage refresh.
      Newer isn't always better.

      --
      liqbase :: faster than paper
    4. Re:from the that's-awful-fast dept. by Lisandro · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's actually not a matter of speed. A realtime OS guarantees that a given external event will trigger a response in no more than x milliseconds. This might be slower (or faster) than a non-realtime OS, but it's not the point. There are a lot of applications where things must be attended within a given timeframe (radars, as mentioned, industrial automation, nuclear plant safety devices, etc.). Achieving this this is not a trivial excersice.

      This is not about the response time after you click on your Office document - and in fact, the (huge) added complexity of a RTOS is nor needed nor desired in most desktop and even enterprise uses.

    5. Re:from the that's-awful-fast dept. by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 2, Informative

      WTF? "real-timeness adds overhead"? The whole point of RTOSes is to remove the overhead and turn almost everything over to the application. Lots of RTOSes have only basic memory management and I/O is largely limited to device discovery and initialization -- everything else is left to the application, because only the application can define how long an operation may take. Some telephone switches can even be rebooted while the applications run!

      You might want to take a couple of computer classes before you post here again.

      --
      Just junk food for thought...
    6. Re:from the that's-awful-fast dept. by Doctor+Memory · · Score: 2, Insightful
      When you have to reinvent the wheel, who do you think is going to produce better average case performance?
      So you're asserting that guys who have worked on a given system for years will produce better average-case performance than some guy on a tight deadline? Well, duh, give the straw man a cigar!

      OTOH, if you're not "reinventing the wheel" but "cranking out a new and improved wheel", and you're the one who has had "years to tinker with a veriety of implementations" (on a variety of projects), then you certainly can produce better average-case performance than some guys whose goal isn't performance but maybe portability, or ease of maintenance, or backwards compatability. Sure, everybody wants their code to run fast, but if your end goal isn't primarily performance, then you won't wind up with the fastest code. Not to mention that real-time work often affords certain conveniences that general-purpose systems don't have. E.g., you can specify that your code will only work with a given CPU / chipset / whatever, so you don't have to go through some generic driver layer that takes your read request and just turns around and passes it through to a driver that may not be fully optimized because it's constrained to support the generic driver interface. There's a lot of abstraction in most GPOSes today, which is unavoidable if you want to be truly "general purpose", but it's anathema to best possible performance.

      Dunno, my first RT experience was a call data collection system running on duplex hardware hooked directly to a phone switch. Each call record represented a "cha-ching!", so we *could* *not* *lose* *any* *data*. We made the hardware as well as the software, and we sweated the details. That's what "real-time" means to me, so maybe it colors my perceptions.
      --
      Just junk food for thought...
  2. Reminds me of Homer as Max Power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Max Power: Kids, there's three ways to do things. The right way, the wrong way, and the Max Power way!
    Bart: Isn't that the wrong way?
    Max Power: Yeah, but faster!

  3. Re:Is this rtlinux? by stirfry714 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hint: If you actually read the article, it will answer your question.

  4. Quick Response and Real-Time by postmortem · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...are not related. Real-time operating systems have shadulers that sort tasks per various priorities. Which mean that task admitted with low priority isn't going to have quick response.

  5. ATTN Novell CIO by njchick · · Score: 4, Funny
    Real-time operating systems can respond to external events within a guaranteed time frame
    Shouldn't Novell's financial department use it? NASDAQ and Wells Fargo will surely appreciate it :)
  6. Marketting towards aircraft radar? by CounterZer0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Give me a break here. Novell is (Barely) known as an enterprise back office company. They make awesome management products, have a decent linux distribution, and a load of magic glue to hold all that together.
    Where in the world does aircraft radar and embedded manufacturing fit into that business model? Is Novell hiring it's competitors to do marketing for it? Eesh!

    1. Re:Marketting towards aircraft radar? by Burz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Novell needs to diversify, and this looks like a good way to do it.

  7. RTOS overhead... by Junta · · Score: 3, Informative

    A characteristic common of multi-tasking RTOSs is that timeslices are very small, and context switches extremely frequent, to help assure that apps will be able to do something in the required timeline, which is not necessarily a small amount of time, but in many applications it is a short time. There are more complexities, but the bulk of the 'overhead' mentioned in the GP is probably the high percentage of time spent doing context switches rather than useful work. The key word here is multi-tasking RTOSs, you describe cases in which the OS is largely a base for a single application that does everything itself. This is very common in the RTOS world, but their do exist areas where pre-emptive multi-tasking RTOSes fulfill a need....

    Of course, your point is correct too, a requisite step with respect to this particular aspect of a RTOS is generally considered to be doing whatever it takes to make the context switch as fast as possible. In a server or desktop OS historically context switches aren't nearly as optimized as the solution can be for most applications to lengthen the timeslice. Server platforms particularly tend to have long timeslices as their activity isn't highly interactive, and the percentage of the time the system can do useful work is more important than each application being able to do their thing in a timely manner. On a desktop OS, timeslices being shorter is helpful (fairly recently a lot of debate and configurability happened in linux with respect to this), as multiple applications are more directly interacting with users. With a handful of processes it isn't really noticeable but as it scales up the delays get into perceptible fractions of a second. Having a smooth interface is a bit more along the lines of a design point of RTOS, so it makes sense. Anyway, there is a penalty paid, but the timeslices for satisfying human interaction requirements may still be orders of magnitutde higher than those required for RTOS applications, depending on what's going on.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  8. Re:Sounds like it might be by paulbd · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ingo Molnar and Andrew Morton's original 2.4 patches for better soft-real-time performance were prompted by complaints from those of us in the linux audio (pro-audio/music) software community. Systems like JACK and applications like Ardour were written around this kind of functionality.

    Ingo has picked up the ball and run with it for 2.6 to the point where a kernel patched with his most recent patches is basically hard-time except for cases where a badly written device driver screws it up. And increasingly parts of his work have become part of the vanilla kernel so that even a 2.6 kernel now works pretty well unless you need very low latency (as require for real-time monitoring and FX processing.