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The Day Against DRM

Qubit writes, "DefectiveByDesign.org, a campaign by the Free Software Foundation, is making Oct 3rd a Day Against DRM: 'Defeating DRM is all about awareness. The direct actions that we have taken are all about this. Today we are asking you to let the people around you know that DRM is bad for our society. Let's create space for the debate. Do we want handcuffs and locks on art and knowledge? As our friends at Disney recognize, if there is this debate, we will have won.'" Bayboy adds an article from eWeek mentioning that members of DefectiveByDesign.org are going to descend on flagship Apple stores in New York and London to protest the company's embrace of DRM. And Another AC writes, "In honor of the Day Against DRM, DreamHost has released a new service called Files Forever (for Dreamhost customers only during beta) This seems to be basically an iTunes Music Store that anybody can sell any sort of files through... as long as they have no DRM. Dreamhost handles all the payment processing and stores the file forever, offering unlimited re-downloads to end users who buy files through the service. When somebody buys a file they're even allowed to 'loan' it to others for free!"

47 of 320 comments (clear)

  1. pr0n by User+956 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let's create space for the debate. Do we want handcuffs and locks on art and knowledge?

    As a master debater, I can say that I do enjoy handcuffs and locks on at least *some* of the art. That is, if you call pr0n "art".

    --
    The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
    1. Re:pr0n by The+Real+Toad+King · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you are suggesting that porn should be illegal, then I assure you at least 50% of all web users will become criminals, if they weren't already. Probably even you. Yes you, the person reading this.

    2. Re:pr0n by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Funny
      If you are suggesting that porn should be illegal, then I assure you at least 50% of all web users will become criminals...

      To (probably mis-) quote Dr. Cox (Scrubs), "If you got rid of all the porn on the Internet, there'd probably only be one site left and I'm pretty sure it would be called 'Bring back the porn'".

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    3. Re:pr0n by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2, Funny
      No. That is a pretty close quote.

      Thanks, but I kicked myself after hitting "Submit" as I forgot the best part of any Dr. Cox quote: "Look Newbie..."

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  2. Very useful... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wish I had known about it before today....

  3. october 3rd by kswtch · · Score: 2, Informative

    tag der deutschen einheit and day against drm. hmm...

  4. Great... by CrackedButter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...but thanks for telling me at 22:22 hours. An hour and 38 minutes before its the 4th of October!

    1. Re:Great... by wsand70 · · Score: 2, Funny

      As a LUG contact person I got a kit this weekend from FSF that has two bundles of stickes and info on this project. Too bad our next LUG meeting is three weeks away. So my contribution was to have my 5 year old son wear a big sticker on the back and a little one of the front. Then I trained him to inform ppl what DRM was an acronym for if they asked.

  5. Too late. by PhakeDC · · Score: 2, Informative

    It's already October 4th in my time zone. See ya next year then, that is if DRM won't already have become a de facto with Vista, the PS3 and God knows what else.

    1. Re:Too late. by dotgain · · Score: 2, Funny
      See ya next year then, that is if DRM won't already have become a de facto with Vista, the PS3 and God knows what else.

      Aren't you going to at least pop in for the April 2 jokes?

  6. Why Apple? by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It seems kind of weird that they'd target Apple, especially when there are far worse companies out there with much more draconian DRM policies they could make an example of. (Sony, anyone?)

    My guess, it's all about location and convenience, rather than actually going after some of the really bad DRM offenders. Apple just happens to be the one unfortunate enough to have stores that are visually appealing and easily recognizable to consumers.

    The intentions here may be good, but the execution is nearly at hypocritical levels.

    --


    8==8 Bones 8==8
    1. Re:Why Apple? by Urza9814 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The point here is not to punish the offenders, but to make the public aware of the offense. They pick apple because everyone knows about iTunes and the iPod and all things apple. If they had gone after, say, Microsoft for DRM on the Zune or something, people would say 'thank god I have an iPod and don't have to worry about that crap'.

    2. Re:Why Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can see why they'd pick Apple's DRM. With the millions of people that have bought stuff from iTunes they are probably one of the largest amount of people encumbered by the same DRM. Most people don't consider their DVDs as encumbered by DRM because the vast majority of people expect to play their DVDs on a DVD player. MP3s on the other hand have been advertised as 'portable' at nearly every step of the way--from smaller, more 'portable' file size to all the different 'portable' players for them.

      I honestly don't think that DRM will make mainstream dissatisfaction with people until a true "ipod killer" come out and suddenly Aunt Susie gets mad and feels 'ripped off' that her Apple DRMd music won't play on her non-ipod.

    3. Re:Why Apple? by maxume · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's only hypocritical if you think that 'a little DRM' is better than 'a lot of DRM'. There are plenty of people who think that *any* drm should be avoided.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:Why Apple? by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Informative

      It seems kind of weird that they'd target Apple, especially when there are far worse companies out there with much more draconian DRM policies they could make an example of. (Sony, anyone?)

      There's a very good reason for this.

      How many people own iPods? How many people have used the iTunes music store? Lots. Even people who don't have iPods know what they are, and lots are probably planning to buy one.

      Now, how many people have Sony music players with Sony's DRM? Anyone? Anyone? Offhand, I couldn't even tell you if Sony has any MP3 players, let alone what kinds they have or what they're called. And I've been looking into buying an MP3 player recently, so it's not like I'm blissfully unaware. No one cares about Sony any more. Sure, their DRM may be "worse" than Apple's, but it doesn't matter because they're so unimportant.

      DFD demonstrating against Sony would be like someone demonstrating against Peugot in the US because they think their cars are bad for some reason. No one here would care, because no one buys those cars here.

    5. Re:Why Apple? by Firehed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It works too. I brought an "Eliminate DRM" sign with me to classes today, and most people hadn't even heard of DRM, much less know what it is. So now we've got fifty or so more people that are enlightened, and one asked if I had any extra signs so she could have one too (printing error in her favor, collect one sheet of propoganda!), not including anyone who read the signs I tacked up in the dorm hall message board.

      As someone at one of the big companies (Universal?) said, "once consumers know about DRM, we fail" (or something like that). The only reason there isn't outrage at iTunes is that it's pretty transparent unless you're trying to convert away from iPods. Unlike a great number of the other stores out there, especially pre-PlaysForSure. My dad bought a track, it wouldn't work, spent all of $0 more there. If that had ever been the case with iTunes, Apple certainly wouldn't have the same market share (and, more likely than not, the media companies would have just given it up). Now that it's effectively little more than vendor lock-in, most people are pretty much screwed no matter what.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    6. Re:Why Apple? by Bones3D_mac · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The point here is not to punish the offenders, but to make the public aware of the offense. They pick apple because everyone knows about iTunes and the iPod and all things apple. If they had gone after, say, Microsoft for DRM on the Zune or something, people would say 'thank god I have an iPod and don't have to worry about that crap'.

      Interesting counter-argument, but in doing so, they are implying that the worst offender is also the most popular one. So, while public is busy watching these guys go after Apple, who's watching what's going on with Microsoft or Sony? Anything that takes the spotlight away from the really bad offenders only helps them accomplish their goals more covertly.

      By making Apple the sole poster-boy of DRM, the "Day against DRM" is not really changing anything. People everywhere are still going to buy their DRM infected media from other sources without another thought. And come November 17th, people will still line the streets for the Sony PS3, blissfully unaware of the DRM nastiness hidden inside, just as long as they get their instant gratification out of the brief "cool factor" period.

      --


      8==8 Bones 8==8
  7. The only way is through economics. by purpledinoz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People aren't going to care until it starts costing them money. Take iTunes for example. Right now, they have DRM that's loose enough that most people won't care that their songs are DRM'ed. People who buy iTunes songs will probably buy another iPod when their old one breaks, so they won't run into a DRM problem.

    There is a very good possibility that in the near future, people will start changing their music players, like the new MS Zune. When this happens on a mass scale, and people have to re-buy their music, there will be a huge number of pissed off people, and people will finally realize why DRM is bad. Until something threatens people's wallets, no one's going to care.

    1. Re:The only way is through economics. by untouchableForce · · Score: 2, Funny

      "There is a very good possibility that in the near future, people will start changing their music players, like the new MS Zune." I'll caution against this line of thinking, in order for that to prove your point people will actually have to buy the Zune.

      --
      Moderation is not supposed to be used as an indicator of agreement.
    2. Re:The only way is through economics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful


      > When this happens on a mass scale, and people have to re-buy their music, there will be a huge number of pissed off people, and people will finally realize why DRM is bad.

      Excellent point.

      Ideally, then, we would end up with dozens of incompatible DRM schemes in the marketplace, overwhelming the public with obstacles and confusion.

      Thus, each time a new and incompatible DRM scheme is introduced, it will help to cause the collapse of all of them.

      Here's a case where the failure of the industry to converge on standards could actually help us.

  8. I'm not all that impressed.... by King_TJ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As much as I dislike DRM, I can't really get too worked up about these protests either. For starters, I get the idea that Apple stores are being "picked on" because they're seen as "high profile" in the mass media. In reality, I don't think Apple was all that "pro DRM" at all. They simply agreed to it in order to successfully get the whole iTunes music store off to a start with major record labels on-board.

    Until Apple did this and proved the business model was really viable, the only other real visible options for people were illegal downloads of MP3s (of sometimes dubious encoding quality) from p2p networks like Napster.

    It seems obvious to me that somewhere in the development process, Apple did some bargaining for rights of the end-users of the music ... since to this day, they *still* offer one of the most flexible set of usage rights on the DRM'd files. (As many as 5 computers can be authorized to use one user's purchased music, and anything purchased can be burnt to audio CD format as many times as you wish - as long as you create new "playlists" of tracks every so many times first, etc.) In fact, although it's not advertised, there are several documented cases of users losing all their music due to drive crashes, and upon emailing Apple support, were granted the ability to re-download everything they lost at no charge. They also allow you to reset your computer authorizations up to once per year, in case you forget to de-authorize systems before wiping the drives on them and selling them to someone else.

    Microsoft's "Fairplay" DRM and its upcoming use in devices like the Zune seem like a much more worthy target of attack. Fairplay is used by practically all the music services BUT Apple - and is getting more and more restrictive in every update to Windows Media Player that's released. Unlike Apple, MS seems to think it's ok to keep "turning the screws" to lock it down beyond what early adopters were told the rules were.

    1. Re:I'm not all that impressed.... by nine-times · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know it's possible, just possible, that Apple could not love their DRM, but also not love laws being placed on them that would force them to adhere to someone else's particular standards of interoperability. In fact, I could imagine reasons why Apple could dislike DRM but also, once saddled with the responsibility, also not wish to support it on non-Apple stores and non-Apple devices.

      Consider this: I'd bet that if someone else tried to program an alternate iTMS interface (besides iTunes), Apple would make an attempt to shut it down. Apple could get the full price of the song, and the DRM could remain intact, only playable in this iTunes replacement and on iPods, and Apple still probably wouldn't like it.

      It's my sense, at least, that Jobs likes to keep control of things. He seems to like to keep things simple and consistent and, under most circumstances, limit the variables that Apple needs to deal with. Having other additional vendors in the mix would complicate things, make them messy, and probably increase Apple's support costs. If allow these third-party alternatives without strict control over them, then suddenly, when they want to change something about their software/hardware/services, they'd need to consider how it affects the third-party products. If they don't care and just break things for the third-party products, then they have to worry about the irritation of all the consumers who've grown accustomed to using those products/services.

      And besides all that, there's just the threat of the unknown. If they license Fairplay to other players, it might grow into a situation that nobody is imagining. Of course, this is just my personal sense of Apple and Steve Jobs, but they seem cautious and prone to stay closed off and secretive as much as possible, and I believe it's this factor rather than love of DRM that keeps them from opening Fairplay to other vendors.

      As to why they don't drop DRM entirely, that seems much more open-and-shut, and doesn't need any of this kind of interpretive guesswork: record/movie/TV companies would not have ever made their deals with Apple unless Apple provided DRM. If Apple stopped using DRM, these media companies would pull every one of their properties from the store.

      Now, I don't like DRM either, and I think it is a problem. However, it's a problem that requires for its solution that we change a lot of societal factors. One of the chief factors would be to change IP law (i.e. copyrights) to something for which DRM was unsuitable.

  9. Re:What?! by Lukano · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The service can be used to offer files, in a permanently available format, for free as well. You do not need to charge-to-download if you so choose.

  10. Re:What?! by Rude+Turnip · · Score: 2, Insightful

    A basic sense of good will towards your fellow man, perhaps, since the files would be offered by the creators and not an Evil Distribution Company (tm). It's nice to be paid for one's time, especially if the intent of the creation was for commercial purposes anyway.

  11. Would some one please explain... by laxcat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Would some one please explain what exactly it wrong with DRM? If you have a problem with concept of copyrights in general, then I can understand. But is there anyone out there that is cool with copyrights, but thinks DRM is bad?

    I'm not trying to be an apologist for the corporations. I know they don't care about the art or the artist, only money. That's given. But do they not have a right to protect their intellectual property? Are the detractors of DRM against the concept of intellectual property altogether?

    The way I see it is there is nothing wrong with the concept of DRM, only with the abuse of DRM. Is this a "slippery slope" argument?

    I'm serious in my plea here. Someone please fill me in on what I am missing!

    1. Re:Would some one please explain... by cliffski · · Score: 3, Interesting

      your not missing anything, I agree with you 100%. I dislike DRM, and dont use it for my games, but I absolutely see why it is used. As a content creator, I know what its like to see people happily taking your hard work for nothing, and then even giving you a hard time if you suggest that people should pay for it. (esp as I make free demos available, there are really no excuses).

      The trouble is, for even daring to suggest that DRM has its place, and that file sharing copyrighted material is illegal, you can expect to be criticised, insulted, and generally modded down to oblivion. Thats the current slashdot philosophy. All companies are evil (unless they are somehow connected to linux), everyone who is caught coopying files illegally is absolutely 100% innocent, and anyone who disagrees is some evil, stupid luddite.
      Welcome to slashdot. Not a friendly place for the creators of digital content.

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
    2. Re:Would some one please explain... by codepunk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well yes it is fairly simple you see, and this from a guy that is not a music lover and could really
      care less about drm on music since the most I do is listen to the radio. The issue is that people only want fair
      use of the product they bought. They want to be able to play it a unlimited amount of times in the device of their
      choosing. Say for instance I want to listen to some tunes and I can only get it in MS DRM protected files which don't work in my car stereo or on my linux machine, you see now we got a problem.

      You cannot technically DRM protect content in a way which will allow legal fair use for the purchaser of the product.....period.

      --


      Got Code?
    3. Re:Would some one please explain... by John+Miles · · Score: 5, Informative

      But is there anyone out there that is cool with copyrights, but thinks DRM is bad?

      Here's the problem: copyrights are a limited monopoly offered by the government as one half of a bargain with creators. The other half of the bargain lies in the creator's agreement that the protected content will become available to the public domain when the copyright term expires.

      DRM allows publishers to evade their half of the copyright bargain. In particular, the DMCA anti-circumvention law in the US is unconstitutional because it does not require publishers to disable their DRM protection, or arrange for it to disable itself, upon the expiration of copyright protection. That means that the DMCA explicitly sanctions perpetual copyright protection... a clear violation of both the letter and intent of the Constitution's clause that authorizes that protection in the first place. With a combination of traditional copyright law and hypothetical DRM technology that remains unbreakable after copyright expiration, a publisher will enjoy an unlimited monopoly at the public's expense.

      But do they not have a right to protect their intellectual property? Are the detractors of DRM against the concept of intellectual property altogether?

      Some are against the whole concept of IP, but not being an ideologue, I can't speak for them. I do, however, believe that publishers and creators should have to choose between self-enforced protection (DRM) and government-enforced protection (copyright law). They should not be able to leverage both at the same time, because the two legal concepts of DRM and the "copyright bargain" are diametrically opposed to each other.

      --
      Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
    4. Re:Would some one please explain... by codepunk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That is not true at all, it ain't about linux at all. I want to play some music I bought that is DRM protected in the GM stereo in my car. It ain't just about linux it is about fair use of a product I paid for in the device of my choosing. There is not feasable way today to technically do this without greatly impacting fair use. When you come up with the magical DRM method you let us know.

      --


      Got Code?
    5. Re:Would some one please explain... by RAMMS+EIN · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The way I see it, there's nothing wrong with DRM in principle, the principle being protecting content against unlawful use. If DRM makes it hard or impossible to use content in unlawful ways, while putting no restrictions on lawful use, I would be all for it. However, in practice, DRM is usually not like that.

      In practice, DRM implementations usually make it difficult to play/view/... the content, except with proprietary and secret tools, while doing nothing to stop copying the content without authorization (unlawful use). To play/view/... the content, you are usually required to use proprietary and secret tools (locking you into using some vendor's products), and reverse-engineering the format (e.g. to create a player for a platform not supported by the official player) is a criminal offense. Also, DRM implementations sometimes involve yielding control of (part of) your computer to another organization, sometimes going as far as allowing said organization to cause your hardware to self-destruct (e.g. Blu-ray players).

      The fundamental problem of DRM is that "trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet." When you have a song/movie/ebook/... in a file on your computer, or even when you can only access it by streaming it from the Net, you can make copies of it, burn it on CDs, give it to your friends, etc. The only way you can be prevented from doing so is by taking your control of your computer away from you. Alternatively, vendors could let you copy the files at will, but restrict access to the actual content (e.g. through encryption). However, once your computer has enough data to decrypt the content once, you could save that data, share it with your friends, etc. Again, the only way you can be prevented from doing this is by taking away your control over your computer.

      It's absolutely out of the question that DRM could go together with open source software. OSS means that you're allowed read and modify the source code to the software. This makes it very easy for you to find the DRM code and change it, so that restrictions are not enforced. It would make DRM trivial to break, defeating its purpose. Sure, it's illegal (under the DMCA/EUCD/...), but so are speeding and copying works that you don't hold the copyright to; that doesn't prevent these things from happening.

      --
      Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
    6. Re:Would some one please explain... by khayman80 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      You asked why some of us who support copyright do not support DRM. I support copyright, but my problems with DRM can be summed up as follows:

      (1) DRM never expires. Ideally, copyright is a legal device used to enrich society, to encourage artists to create works based on the understanding that they will be able to profit from said works for a limited amount of time. After this time period expires, the creative works get released into the public domain. Unfortunately, DRM'd files don't do this- the music you bought on iTunes in 2003 will still be restricted in 3003.

      (2) DRM will never work correctly without overly restrictive government controls. For example, let's assume that "Brand New Hyper DVD" format is completely uncrackable- the disks can never, EVER be decrypted and copied digitally. So what? Take your camcorder, aim it at the screen, and press record. Voila! Brand new copy without DRM. The only way to stop this would be to force all electronics manufacturers to include complicated measures to insure that they can't be used in this manner- but as we all know the next "DVD Jon" would show up in less than 2 days and crack these measures. The only way to fight this from a corporate/government standpoint would be to force all electronics capable of being used in this kind of pirating scheme to "phone home" on a regular basis to update their DRM software, and to BAN all older electronics without this "feature". See where this is going? Do you want to live in this society?

      (3) DRM effectively turns your computer into a police snitch, working AGAINST you rather than for you. Just look at the Sony rootkit fiasco for an obvious example, or read up on the DMCA or broadcast flags or... you get the point.

      (4) DRM adds an extra degree of complexity to playback, which constitutes another failure mode. A computer crash can often reduce a DRM'd music library to binary junk unless the user has been meticulous enough to save the mountain of data necessary to identify his/her computer as "the authorized playback device" of said music. Want to switch to a different computer, or swap out some hardware? Good luck- this will probably be interpreted as a "new computer" and your music won't play. Want to play your music on another device like your car stereo or your portable music player? You'd better hope the music vendor was "gracious" enough to bless you with that kind of "privilege".

      (5) My fears of a world where DRM has taken over can best be summed up by the following short story. I'm TERRIFIED that this is exactly the type of world we will wake up to in, say, 2020 if things keep going the way they are...

    7. Re:Would some one please explain... by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 5, Informative

      I love copyright. I disagree with some of the details of implementation (In my dream world copyright would last 14 years with an optional 14 year renewal), but I love the core idea. A government granted short term monopoly seems like a good way to encourage creation.

      However, I loathe DRM. A few highlights:

      • DRM makes media players more expensive: Adding DRM support to hardware or software isn't free. Implementating a device without DRM support would be cheaper that implementing one with. You, the consumer, pay more for a device that intentionally does less.

      • DRM must be combined with draconian laws to be effective: "Trying to make bits uncopyable is like trying to make water not wet." (Bruce Schneier) You've given me the data and the software or hardware to play the data. All the pieces are in my hands. DRM must be breakable. So to make it effective, you need laws that make it illegal to distribute implementations that break DRM. This means source code that breaks DRM must be illegal. As source code is a form of speech, we have laws that try to limit free speech to protect a business model. That's never acceptable in my book.

      • DRM is about making things you purchase distrust you: This is inherent to the system. This is morally repugnant. Your DVD player assumes you're trying to make bootleg copies, so it applies MacroVision to the output. The new video game you installed assumes you're trying to play a bootleg copy, so it installs low-level drivers into your system to monitor what you do. I paid money for these things, why do they serve an external company more than me?

      • DRM must infringe on fair use: The only DRM system that doesn't infringe on fair use is Microsoft's "Please don't make illegal copies" label printed on the CDs of some of their products. Fair use is subtle and non-obvious, no piece of electronics or software can be perfectly correct. If you err on the side of freedom, you are also creating a loophole for illegal use. You can either give people the ability to legally sample short segements of high definition video for review purposes or you can make it harder to make bootleg copies. You can give people the ability to legally format shift movies and music or you can make it harder to spread copies online.

      • DRM destroys competition: Want to make an open source player to play media you've paid for? An open source player could easily be modified to ignore the DRM. So they use technology to try and stop you. Where technology fails they use laws. Want to make a commercial, closed-source player? You need to pay the controllers of a given DRM implementation. They can deny you access without cause, they can charge you whatever you like.
      • DRM can't expire: Eventually everything enters the public domain. No DRM system can automatically unlock things when that happens. If they did, it would be relatively easy to spoof the date and unlock the media. When all copies of a given piece of media are locked under DRM, you effectively create infinite copyright.
    8. Re:Would some one please explain... by SiliconEntity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You cannot technically DRM protect content in a way which will allow legal fair use for the purchaser of the product.....period.

      This is probably true, but the example you gave is not a good one. Being able to play content on multiple different players is not fair use. See for example:

      http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use _Overview/chapter9/9-a.html

      "In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and 'transformative' purpose such as to comment upon, criticize or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner."

      You see the kind of thing that is covered by fair use: being able to "comment upon, criticize or parody a copyrighted work". It means things that are educational and/or political.

      It certainly does not mean having more fun with the copyrighted work than the owner wanted to allow you! If he says you can only play it on a certain device, that is his right. That is fully protected by copyright. You do not have a fair use right to expand on that just for your own enjoyment and pleasure.

      So ironically you have made a correct statement but for totally incorrect reasons. The real problem with DRM is that it makes excerpting for commentary, criticism and scholarly or political analysis extremely difficult. If a teacher wants to play a few bars from a pop song and demonstrate that the melody or rhythm is based on tribal or classical influences, he may be thwarted by DRM. If someone wants to capture a frame of a movie and use it for parody purposes, DRM could make that difficult. These are protected, fair uses and DRM gets in the way.

      But being able to play content in different ways than the copyright owner wanted you to? No way is that fair use. He has every right to be able to charge you extra for that right, just as with other ways of enjoying his work.

    9. Re:Would some one please explain... by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok, it's really easy, the devices that I own should do what I want even if what I want to do is violate copyright. That simple: my device, my choice.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    10. Re:Would some one please explain... by enrevanche · · Score: 2, Informative
      Your response has no relation to "fair use". I suggest that you try reading up on it.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

      http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

      Fair use gives you some rights over copyrighted material even if the author does not want you to have it. DRM prevents you from exercising your legal rights.

    11. Re:Would some one please explain... by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2, Informative

      It certainly does not mean having more fun with the copyrighted work than the owner wanted to allow you! If he says you can only play it on a certain device, that is his right. That is fully protected by copyright.

      No, it isn't! The copyright owner does not in general have any say over how you use the work. That includes playing it on any player you want to. No, they don't get a say in that. Yes, you can have more fun with the copyrighted work than the owner wanted to allow you. That isn't "fair use", it's just use. Use is not covered by copyright.

      You will notice that the line you quote says that "fair use is any copying of copyrighted material" and then goes on to list things that do in some way involve copying and making derivative works of a copyrighted act which would normally be prohibited. It doesn't list "having more fun with the copyright work than the owner wanted" because that has nothing to do with copyright and hence fair use. So you're right it isn't a good example of fair use, but it is also not a good example of something the copyright holder has the right to prohibit.

      To be clear, there are three classes of "uses":
      1) Those prohibited by copyright, such as distributing copies or making derivative works or public performances.
      2) Those which are nominally prohibited by copyright, but exempted under "fair use" clauses.
      3) Those which are not prohibited by copyright and thus do not need to be exempted by fair use.

      The problem with DRM is that in the name of protecting 1, it prohibits both 2 and 3.

      Of course the ones who are heavily invested in DRM see this as a feature. It allows them to enforce whatever crazy restrictions they want, like limiting the number of times you can listen to a song or charging you rent for songs where they can stop you from listening to the songs if you stop paying, but they are not given the right to create those restrictions based on copyright law. However because DRM enforces copyright law, and DRM also enforces these other restrictions, it creates the illusion in peoples' minds, like yours, that these are all covered by copyright law.

      Well, they're not. Look it up. You will not find anything in copyright law empowering copyright owners to limit the number of times you listen to a legally acquired copy of their song. Copyright law only empowers the copyright owner to say who may or may not distribute the song. That's it.

      By the way, it is legal for someone to distribute a copy of a work with certain stipulations like "you have to return this to the store by Thursday at 11pm", but that's a contract, and it has nothing to do with copyright law.

      But being able to play content in different ways than the copyright owner wanted you to? No way is that fair use. He has every right to be able to charge you extra for that right, just as with other ways of enjoying his work.

      Again, that is not fair use, but it is also not a violation of copyright. He does not have every right to charge me for the right to play the content in different ways, just as he does not have the right to prohibit other ways of enjoying his work. If Stephen King doesn't want me to use legally acquired copies of his books as toilet paper, guess what? Tough shit for him (and tough toilet paper for me, but that's not the point).

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    12. Re:Would some one please explain... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's true only if "fair use" can't be specifically defined.

      And it can't be. That's the whole point of fair use: it protects uses that are fair, given the circumstances involved. It is impossible to say that making backup copies, for example, is a fair use. In some circumstances it might be. In others, it might not be. A court is capable of looking at the facts and making a decision. And other courts might disagree given the same facts, it's such an infamously nebulous concept. This is routine. But no DRM system will ever be able to do what a court does.

      But by saying "fair use" can't be specifically defined you're saying: "Hey copyright holders! You can't enforce your laws because you don't know if 'fair use' for me means 10 copies or 1,000 copies or 1,000,000 copies."

      No, and now you're just being an idiot. Fair use can't be defined. But if a copyright holder thinks that a particular use is not fair, and you think it is fair, then you go to a court, and they make the final decision that both of you are stuck with. And so it is perfectly easy to enforce the law.

      Not to mention the argument that you are agreeing to their terms of purchace, and they can tell you to use whatever device they damn well please. Again, the free market agument comes into play.

      Copyright already deals with a government-granted monopoly, and artificial scarcity, so the idea of a free market has flown right out the window from the get-go. As for terms of purchase, let's remember that the law of sales, contract law, copyright law, etc. are laws, and thus may be changed. Some terms may simply be unenforcable according to the law, either substantively (i.e. a particular term is objectionable) or procedurally (i.e. the method by which the term was put forth wasn't the correct one). And others that are enforced now, may become unenforcable in the future. Where there is a conflict between what the law says, and what DRM says, I'm going to side with the law.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    13. Re:Would some one please explain... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But how serious is this? Copyright doesn't expire for like 100 years.

      But you forget: copyrights are limited in scope. For example, it is not an infringement of copyright to rent a DVD you own to someone else. If DRM interferes with this, it's no different than DRM interfering with something that wouldn't infringe copyright simply because the copyright has expired. The main limitation we're concerned with is fair use, because literally any use, under the right circumstances, is a fair one. (And conversely, no use, under the wrong circumstances, is fair)

      What is the likelihood that today's DRM will still be effective then, and that the DMCA and similar laws will be unchanged?

      Who cares? Copyright is a very forward-looking law. It is meant to assure a net public benefit in the future. If this is uncertain, then the law is not a good one.

      Imagine if a town issued bonds to build a water tower, but they wouldn't promise that the bonds would ever mature. Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't. Without this certainty, no one would be stupid enough to buy the bonds, and the town wouldn't raise the money for their project.

      DRM is quite similar, except that people willing to tolerate it are in fact being foolish enough to do something else, like throw money away in the example above.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    14. Re:Would some one please explain... by cliffski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      oh dear.
      I guess people like you dont think that JRR tolkein deserved a single penny for writing his books? you think that Jane Austen, Charles Dickens, iain Banks, George Lucas, gene roddenberry, all these people should have become plumbers instead. increasingly, everything that we create is becoming reproduceable in digital form. You seem to think that nobody that creates anything that can be digital work should be paid. how quaint.
      I guess you dont understand the concept of fixed and marginal costs, or basic economics. Or that the people who create all this 'art; need to be paid for their work, else they too will have to go become plumbers. I'd rather live in a world where great art and information was actually produced, rather than a world where everyone did manual work because its the only wat to ensure they get paid.
      People like you are entirely the problem.

      --
      DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
  12. Same reasons you'd buy a book by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... and explain to me why I would buy anything from this store rather than just download it from somebody else for free?

    Same reasons you'd buy a book, rather than scan one you borrowed from the library:
      - You want a non-infringing copy. (You CAN still be sued for copying outside fair use, you know.)
      - You want to reward the creator and distribution channel (either out of principle or to promote creation of more stuff you like).
      - It's convenient.

    Content producers in a number of media have experimented with copy inhibition technologies and generally found them unnecessary and often counter-productive to good business results. Why should music be different?

    (The current rash of "piracy" is, IMHO, primarily a reaction to broken distribution and pricing policies, and recording companies will do a lot better once {if?} they get over it.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
  13. Re:What?! by cliffski · · Score: 2, Insightful

    because you realise that a lot of effort went into creating it, the author needs to eat too, you enjoy it, and your not just a leech?

    --
    DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
  14. Re:What?! by regular_gonzalez · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Your comment is the exact reason DRM exists.

    --
    Due to circumstances beyond my control, I am master of my fate and captain of my soul.
  15. Re:What?! by Penguinoflight · · Score: 2, Insightful

    They probably had independent productions in mind when they made this service. Unless dreamhost moderates this (not likely, they're kind of lazy) people will probably just sell hard to find files, like the SmartStart CD for your compaq server, a driver for your tv card and a bunch of other illegal stuff.

    --
    "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
    1 John 4:14
  16. What is your point? by pavon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The same reason that the vast majority of people currently buy their music on CD when they could just steal it from a store, or copy it from a friend, or download it online. The same reason that thousands of people buy music from independent artists online, when they could just download it.

    If you're trying to assert that most people would pirate music rather than paying for it, unless they physically prevented from doing so by their own property, then you are wrong. Contrary to the RIAA's twisted statistics, piracy is not decreasing sales. At the peak of napster's popularity sales at the register were rising, not falling. The falling numbers the RIAA liked to quote were wholesale numbers. This can be traced to the stores streamlining their inventory and stocking systems as a result of the internet. At that time, music stores near colleges did have falling sales, but so did book stores near colleges, and both correlate strongly to increases in internet sales of the same item. Subsequently, the decrease in sales that have been seen, are largely in the "oldies" adult market - and yet if you look at the statistics for what types of music is being pirated, it is clear piracy is not to blame for that. The threat of piracy is overblown, and unsubstantiated.

    So no, most people are not selfish assholes, just you. But hey, congratulations! It is the minority of people like you that have given the RIAA leverage to strip away the fair-use right of the rest of the people in this country, and bias the laws in favor of further consolidation of the market. You sure stuck it to The Man.

  17. DMCA, not DRM is the problem by SiliconEntity · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seems like a lot of the problems people have with DRM aren't problems with DRM per se, they're problems with the DMCA and similar legislation to criminalize attempts to circumvent DRM. I agree, and so we should have a day against DMCA, not a day against DRM.

    There are those who claim that DRM cannot work without legislation, but I don't think that's completely true. Yes, for music and video content you can work around DRM, but it is often difficult and the quality of the result may be inferior. And for games and software, DRM can work in theory. The new proposals for Trusted Computing could also strengthen DRM without requiring legislation.

    We should work to oppose this kind of legislation as it expands into more countries, and eventually work to roll it back in the places where it has been passed. Perhaps more technically effective DRM will make it easier to remove the legislative crutch.

  18. Civil disobedience by cpghost · · Score: 2, Insightful

    we should have a day against DMCA, not a day against DRM.

    There's an even bigger problem with people blindly obeying silly laws without questioning their legitimacy. In most parts of the world, people simply ignore crappy laws they don't deem just. Yes, they get thrown in jails by those in power every now and then; but it's rather rare, because effectively, you can't jail 20% or more of the population: who would pay taxes then? In a democracy, civil disobedience shouldn't be needed; but do we really still live in a democracy, when outfits like Disney and RIAA can buy laws like DMCA?

    --
    cpghost at Cordula's Web.
  19. Not sure on this one by joshsnow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Whe it comes to DRM, I'm not entirely of the opinion that DRM is entirely a Bad Thing(tm). I think that in Apples case, there's enough in the product to ensure that a person using it has fair use. i.e. in iTunes, you can burn your songs to a traditional CD format which can then be ripped to anything you like.

    I think it's not so much the DRM which is bad, it's the way it's being used and the people who are using it. For instance in Napsters case, I believe DRM is being used to enforce a subscription model where the user never owns the music they download and loses it as soon as they stop subscribing. Then there's the RIAA and the MPAA who see DRM as a tool which they can use to control the one channel of distribution that they currently don't fully control (the internet) so that they can continue to take advantage of artists and consumers.

    I think that Apple have always used software to sell their hardware and if iTunes were to start selling vanilla MP3s iPod sales would, inevitably, take a hit. So they've arrived at the happy medium - just enough DRM to package the iPod product with the iTunes service into a Solution (I'm pwning the marketing-speak!) without completely removing the right to own the music and to make copies of it.