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Illumninatus! Author Needs Our Help
Criceratops writes, "Almost every fringe-geek worth their salt has read 'The Illuminatus! Trilogy,' or at least the 'Principia Discordia,' and much of the enlightenment therein came from Robert Anton Wilson. On the eve of 'Xena' being officially named Eris, Douglas Rushkoff's blog reveals that the extremely ill Mr. Wilson can't make his rent. Another testimony to how our society refuses to reward those who enrich it... but not if we can help it!"
[i] Get a job as a stocker at WalMart and stop being an anarchist/conspiracy theorist (hey, that's what it says on the linked Wikipedia page) refusing to do actual work for money in our 'system'.[/i]
Kind of hard to do that when you're housebound and only have a few months to live, y'know.
And where on earth do you get the assumption that he ever refused to work for money?
free experimental electronic music netlabel at www.viablehybrid.com
I bought the Illuminatus! trilogy in college, and it gave me many hours of pleasure--not just from reading the book, but from games, references, in-jokes, cultural bits and bobs and whatnot.
I don't care what he spends his money on, or why he's in trouble, but this is just one of those little bits of culture, like Snow Crash, Neuromancer, Iain Banks' Culture series and any number of other miscellaneous books that contribute to letting me look at life in a more fun way.
I agree with the guy who said "if a bum asks for money, buy him a sandwich". Where this differs is that here's someone who's actually done something cool and worthwhile and inherently nifty.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
How about some of us who havent read his books consider buying a copy?
Why should I? Fair play, if I come across one of the guys books, and it looks like something I want to read, then I'll buy it. But the tone of your statement above makes it sound like we owe the guy a favour, and I don't see why that should be the case.
Oh no... it's the future.
Cos if you buy a copy of one of his books, he'll only get the measley 5% from the publisher
Get a job as a stocker at WalMart
Did you miss the bit where the article says he's extremely ill? I imagine that a shelf-stacking job isn't a viable option.
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Another testimony to how our society refuses to reward those who enrich it... but not if we can help it!"
You posted that on Slashdot, where every third post is a complaint about the tyranny of copyright and payment for the use of intellectual property?
How naive.
Three Squirrels
In other news, another 300 cancer patients died today because they couldn't afford the examinations that would have detected their disease earlier, at a preventable stage. Nor could they have afforded the treatment that could have beaten their cancer, even if they'd known about it.
If you're looking for sob stories about nice people falling on hard times, there are for more worthy cases than Robert Anton. Why don't you stop by the local Veterans hospital, or contact the Children's Wish Foundation, if you really have money you feel should be used to help others.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
If I buy his book, will that help him? Or has he sold the rights on or something?
I've heard that the ancient greek civilization has come on hard times too. Since they were the ones who actually created the Eris / Discordia mythology, shouldn't they get a spare dime too? I mean, it's nice to rework some old public domain ideas into a story and copyright it (see Disney), and it's nice to be generous to your fellow man, etc., but I don't get this call to action slashdot article stuff.
[
So that EVERYONE can have good enough, free healthcare, rather than choosing some single lucky soul.
Also, we do value authors - that's why copyrights run out after 25^^50^^75 years so that creators^^^^^large businesses can make money inperpetuity.
If you're looking to do the most good for the most people per dollar, money invested in, say, vaccine distribution or malaria prevention is always going to outweigh helping anybody living in the West. And that includes US Army veterans and sick kiddies (in fact, the treatment of Western children with life-threatening illnesses is arguably the single most overfunded branch of the medical profession). But it's only human to want to help out those who we feel a connection with in some way. And Mr. Wilson's work has made a connection with many Slashdotters. I'm not among them, I haven't read it. But if, for example, Linus Torvalds or Joss Wheedon turned up destitute on my doorstep, I'd help them out (even though in both cases them ending up destitute would indicate some very poor life decisions), to thank them for what they've given me.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
There are no fictional books that are 'required' reading, despite the plaints of those who have read them and think others that choose not to "wouldn't grasp them anyway". Pompous, and probably wrong.
I write, but I do not expect that to float me unto death. I work as a backup to what I enjoy.
He appears to have sold books. That puts him way the hell ahead of most writers.
So, I have a job and insurance
He was paralyzed by polio. Try keeping your job and your insurance when you can't even move. I know we have the medical leave act, but I think "I need medical leave for the rest of my life" doesn't count. Even if he had insurance on his own, they'd have almost certainly raised his premium until he was forced to drop it, and if not, he probably hit that 1-2 million dollar lifetime maximum pretty quick by the time he got to 74. Too bad his family isn't rich, the Republicans would be all over it, as long as they weren't the ones that'd have to pay to keep him alive.
It's interesting though. I got a letter from social security telling me that if I became completely disabled today, I'd receive a whopping $160 a month to live off of. The drugs that keep MS from eating my brain cost roughly $20000 a year, and are fortunately covered by my insurance. It certainly would have been a pleasant surprise to discover that the Republicans were actually serious about this "compassionate conservative" thing, but I think it's pretty clear now that they're just full of bullshit.
Key Word: Consider.....
My first exposure to RAW was through the Principia Discordia and the Illuminatus! trilogy, but it was his other books that changed the way I think about a lot of things, Cosmic Trigger and Prometheus Rising especially. Quite honestly, I consider him a great influence, and I suspect there are a lot of others like me. That is why this call for help is meaningful here and elsewhere, and why I'm sending a donation.
Those of you who haven't read any of his work and also feel some sort of strange self-righteous lack of human kindness to the point of telling a terminally ill man to "get a job at Wal-Mart" might do well to never grow old, sick, or widowed.
That man is one of my few heroes. Normally I'm of the opinion that I'm doing the world a favor/all the charity I can afford if I'm taking care of myself and not sponging off others. Call it low self-esteem, call it selfish-loutish or anti-social behaviour. I think I'll have to go and order what few books of his I don't have, maybe buy a few I already have and make them this years xmas presents.
I'll comment:
Some of the post here state that, there are people who are worse off and less well known and perhaps such support would be better directed toward them.
Other post questioned why he was receiving private care when he could go to a state hospital.
These are valid points, no argument from me...largely because I don't know much more about him other than he needs help.
However, I'm having difficulty seeing how it follows that it is "morally wrong" or "hypocritical" to provide assistance to someone when:
1) You know they need the help
2) They have, in some way, help you or otherwise enriched your life in the past
3) Maybe you just simply admire them.
If you are moved to help this guy, do so and don't let anyone here call you a "hypocrite". If you're really curious, perhaps use this to learn more about his particular afflicition. Who knows? Someday there may be a fund in his name for this very purpose.
Lance Armstrong's got the "Livestrong" foundation...I wonder what his would be called?
A goal is a dream with a deadline
Now you tell me that even if you have health insurance, there's no guarantee that you won't be turned in to soylent green?!
Can anyone explain how your country works in this regard?
As difficult as it is for those of us in less barbaric countries to imagine, you are indeed hung out to dry if your health insurance runs out, and it's only good up to a point. Usually the limit is up to a specific dollar value - or covers treating a given illness for a limited time span. The maximum amount a policy covers it varies depending on the premium you are willing to pay / can afford each month.
Where the system falls down is when someone has a serious long term illness, such as Cancer, and the treatment works, you can easily end up running out of insurance cover 2 or 3 years down the road. When that happens, you have to sell all your possessions (house, car, TV) to pay for the drugs (which are really expensive - often hundreds of USD worth a month). When the money ultimately runs out, and you are lying bed ridden, flat broke in low rent accommodation - having been forced to sell all of your valuable possessions just to stay alive - you simply stop getting the medication you've been getting and you are left to succumb to the illness (that is, to die).
If you have a partner, then they are left with nothing when you die - not even the house you used to live in (because you'll have used up all the money from the life insurance pay out that would already have been made when your condition was diagnosed on the medication you needed to keep you alive), making it a double tragedy for them. I don't know how someone is supposed to get their life back together after something like that.
"Emergency rooms" are required to treat all patients brought in (regardless of insurance or ability to pay), so when you are at the final stage of your illness at deaths door (days, or hours before the end) they will give you medication to control the pain, but that's the extent of the free treatment available (and you / your partner will still get a hefty bill for any services rendered, they just can't - by law - refuse to treat you even if they know for sure you can't pay it).
Scary stuff.
Such is the price people seem willing to pay in return for lower taxation and greater spending power at the checkout.
"Where people recognize that it takes not only time and effort to create something new,* but that nothing is ever completely new and that we all stand on the shoulders of the giants who have come before us?"
Well first of all, it's not so much "giants" as it is many midgets. Second you trivalize the fact that that body of contributions was built from many, many people all getting rewarded (and in some cases, not) over time. And by rewarding him the process continues. Trying for "completely new" not only is unnecessary, but wasteful (Linux vs Hurd).
"You mean the very same slashdot where non-traditional methods of compensating creators are constantly under evalluation and up for debate?"
More like thrown out there (and constantly repeated) and expecting people to adopt their "new and improved" business model, while they sit back and take no risks.
*And a bigger body of posts that refuse to recognize that fact. That regularly complains about actors, sport figures, and managerial salaries. That complain that people don't spend money on their favorite subject instead of sports.
Yes, very naive.
Thanks for the info; you've also made me feel infantely better about the NHS, from whom I got anti-epileptic brain surgery absolutely free when I was 15. According to my then conultant only 12 of these particular operations are carried out per year at that hospital (the world renound Great Ormond Street children's hospital). Had we had to pay for it, well I think my parents would still be paying back the debt now, a couple of years short of a decade later.
People continually moan about the state of the NHS, but it's safe to say I'd rather become ill here in the UK than over there in the USA.
If I have nothing to hide, you have no reason to search me
I always find it funny when people try to discourage people from doing good deeds. If you want to start a fund for Robert Jordan I say do it. I won't write a short essay on how I think it's a waste of time and how there may be some hidden agenda to buy drugs with the money.
I understand discouraging people from replying to spam or supporting terrorism, but to discourage people from helping another person just seems like time wasted on everyones part.
Can I bum a sig?
Hello,
>So, I have a job and insurance, because I don't want to be like this guy.
Trust me, there's no risk you'll ever be like that guy.
Hail Eris!
Amen. I've broken a few bones, and had plastic surgery on my ears on the NHS. I guess I should stop being annoyed at how much the government taxes everything, since the NHS sounds so much better than anything Americans will have anytime soon.. :S The pricing does sound extortionate too though. Drug companies must be making a killing (no pun intended).
which is totally what she said
Yeah, so instead we let a bunch of corporations (which are creations of the government) screw it up.
The free market works well when buyers and sellers meet in the marketplace with equal power, full knowledge, and all costs accounted for in the transaction. These assumptions do not apply to basic medical care: there is a tremendous power and knowledge differential, and if my neighbor can't get treatment for his bird flu or TB (or even for some chronic condition that makes him more at risk to contract bird flu or TB) that puts me at risk.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Yet, even more supremely qualified would be those who gave YOU that money.
It became his the moment he got it though - and only he is qualified to do with it as he see fit - not you, not I, not the do gooders of the government and society.
Several things that you supposedly read should have tipped you off.
...But you didn't actually read any of this (you even quoted the article wrong after being called out!!). You skimmed a few things, jumped to conclusions, then rushed to get first post by being about as much of an ass about it as possible - revealing how much you're just a sad, sad, excuse for a human being.
Summary: "the extremely ill Mr. Wilson can't make his rent"
Article: "whose *infirmity* and depleted finances"
Article: "Bob is a human being in a rather painful fleshsuit"
Article: "I refuse for the history books to say he died alone and destitute"
Wikipedia article (which you say you read) depending on when you read it:
Wikipedia: "This author who has changed the lives of many is dying of post polio syndrome"
Wikipedia: "Robert A. Wilson is currently under hospice care at home with friends and family."
RAW himself did not ask for money. A fan of his, however, did. Your high horse died about 2 posts ago, *get off of it*.
Also, you've never once taken a homeless guy into a restaurant. Liar.
Because the US is a country containing a majority of self-centered, ignorant, and short-sighted fools, such as the first poster.
This wasn't bad but I think some clarifications might help:
1) It is extremely important to distinguish between employer-provided insurance and privately-purchased insurance. The theoretical purpose of medical insurance is not, as you say, to protect you in case of a large number of bills. It is to pool risk and collect enough money from each insured to cover the cost and a bit of rake-off for the insurer. The purpose of medical insurance *companies* is to make as much money as possible. Therein lies the rub.
Employer-provided insurance tends to be pretty good. Most people work for large companies and these companies use their bulk purchasing power to get something very close to this risk-pooling arrangement. People trying to buy insurance on their own, however, are completely at the mercy of insurance companies. They will face possibly ruinous exclusions, especially the nebulous "pre-existing condition", and a great many hurdles. The insurance companies work hard (which is expensive) to find reasons not to pay the claims of these people.
2) The long-term problem is a bit similar. If you work for a long time for a large company, you are generally well covered until Medicare (*not* Medicaid) kicks in. Increased worker mobility (i.e. decreased job security) makes the insurance problem greater.
3) Medicare hasn't been gutted (though there was a debacle recently with the new PHARMA welfare act, err, new drug benefit) because it is for old people and old people vote. Medicaid has always been pretty crappy because it is for poor people.
4) The US already has a decent program in Medicare and a very good program in the Veteran's Administration Hospitals. However, expanding these programs to universal coverage is politically impossible at the moment.
Even the mediocre NHS is far better (even Canada's crappy system is better though France's system may be best of all) from a coverage per dollar standpoint. The administrative costs associated with the US system are extreme and provide no medical benefit to anyone.
I remain convinced that the US will eventually embrace single-payer under a less corrupt Republican administration (a Nixon-to-China moment if you will) when big business republicans realize they cannot afford it any longer and faux libertarian (that's a bit of snark since I don't believe there are any *real*, i.e. uniformly consistent, libertarians) entrepreneur types realize that the dangers of leaving a job and foregoing insurance can make entrepreneurship far too risky. (I'm not entrepreneurially inclined but if I were, I'd worry a lot less about losing my house since I could always go back to the rat race and rent than losing my insurance since I might get cancer while uninsured and simply die).
Q:How many libertarians does it take to stop a Panzer division? A:None. Obviously market forces will take care of it.
No one is forcing you to do anything. We are pressuring you. There's a difference. We are playing on your compassion for other humans. Sick, I know, trying to get you to care about others, what's wrong with us? Don't we understand what America, the free market, personal responsibility and Social Darwinism are all about? This man is sick. Society doesn't value him, he deserves to die.
Okay, enough sarcasm. Here's the deal. We live in a free country. You are free not to help this man. But we are free to call you an asshole to your face. You can't shut us up. You can feel motivated not to help when someone asks for money, and the rest of us will feel motivated to point at you and say, "Look at the poor crippled human, isn't it pathetic, it lacks empathy and compassion and it lives in a hell of its own making because it can not connect with other human beings on a deep and meaningful level. How sad. Glad I'm not like that."
I met Robert Anton Wilson at a conference I was helping give a presentation for in 2000, called Disinfocon. It was put on by disinfo.com, "The yahoo of the weird and unusual." He is a very nice person, very smart, and his books are not garbage. He gave a presentation on the book "Saharasia," by James DeMeo, a student of Wilhelm Reich, which explains the origins of human violence. Very interesting.
You seem to think that because he is poor now, his books must not of sold well. They were on the NY Times best seller list. They are very popular, and every real geek I've ever met has read them. Even if you have not read his books, if you have read any books in the last thirty years chances are you read someone who was deeply influenced by his writings.
I'm truly sad for you. You are obviously missing something which most of the rest of us find to be one of the most important parts of being human. If sharing compassion and empathy were as easy as sharing money, I would give you some of mine.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
The best part? The fundies in power who won't let such terminally-ill people commit suicide or be willingly euthanized because it's against their religion, and they're not willing to step up and pay for it. If I'm ever in that situation, I'll do my damndest to check out before my family is destitute from paying for my meds. Prolonging my life for a short time isn't worth that much.
See the ruckus over Oregon's death-with-dignity law. See der Fuehrer and congressweasels scrambling to take away Oregonians' right to die as they see fit.
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
E pluribus sanguinem
Most of the arguments here are whether or not this person is worthy of receiving such donations. Considering that disease & death will spare none of us, and that bad things do happen to good people, how many of us can say with utmost confidence that such a thing will *never* happen to them? I've never read any of his books, but then again, to say that he does / does not deserve anyone's help based on that is just plain callous. Helping, like many other things in life, is not about you. If you are able & willing to help, kudos to you; and if you are not, the least you can do is not to try & discourage those who are.
The well off person who has millions in the bank to cover all medical eventalities has likely been fortunate enough to have been born with a skill that has enabled them to obtain that money.
Funny. Statistically speaking, the well off person was born into a family that is well off. The secret to wealth is to be born to rich parents, then, since you have money, the money condensation principal kicks in. You can just loan money to those who were born poorer and collect interest.
I've been in tears since this thread started and the thought that America can stand by at let its citizens die sends shivers down my spine.
While the stated goal of pretty much any government program, or lack thereof, is to make people's lives better, we all enter into that with a lot of preconceptions and principals. Americans are predisposed towards independence and each person taking care of themselves. This is reflected in our lack of socialism and in our stance on drugs and firearms. Much of Europe is more predisposed towards placing responsibility on a central authority as is reflected in their beliefs about those same topics. Neither is optimal for quality of life, but it is pretty obvious that overall, Western Europe is closer to the ideal.
If you want to hear some scary numbers take a look at the number of Americans that are financially ruined by medical expenses. I think the last time I heard it was something like 50% of all personal bankruptcies were due to a medical problem.
But why would my neighbors, who haven't been threatened by anyone with guns, want to be required to pay for these people? What if they've got guns of their own, and are reasonably confident that no one's going to try to take away their possessions? Why should my misfortune fall upon their shoulders?
Are you certain that society is a better place because we have armies and police forces to keep us away from total chaos? Wouldn't it be rational to try chaos for a while first, to see for sure?
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
Sir.
I find your suggestion to "work hard, live a fiscally responsible lifestyle, live below your means" to be about as helpful as Marie Antoinette's suggestion that the poor should "eat cake if they have no bread". I suspect you have no idea of the magnitude of health care costs.
I work hard, and live within my means. I'm fortunate enough to make more than a goodly percentage of the population while not similarly scaling up my expenses. Assuming all goes well, and my reasonable investments provide a reasonable rate of return, by the time I hit retirement age I will be reasonably well off.
Were I to fall ill, the price of care is such that I could easily face bankruptcy. This is without factoring cost increases, which are currently growing at increasing rates. So, if I'm screwed, and I'm making more, and being more responsible than most of the US; where does it leave them? For that matter, where does it leave you?
It's not bullshit, but they are businesses with the morals of businesses. And they do drop people unless contractual obligations require that they not.
... well, not congenital, but definitely pre-existing any possible insurance.
That said, authors don't have much of a guild. I'd be surprised if they had a group insurance plan. Bob Wilson was crippled with polio as a child, and though he was able to overcome it for years, he also was subject to recurrence (of muscular weakness, not of polio). If he's now both old and sick, he probably can't walk. I'd be surprised if he was insurable for this problem, as it's
OTOH, a good health plan is contractually obligated to NOT drop you. Such exist. The good ones seem to do reasonably good jobs. (And hospitalization is STILL expensive.)
As for his savings...Bob's books may have sold well for a long period of time, but he was never at the top of the charts. He's never been wealthy, and often lived very near the edge. I'd be surprised if he had any savings. (I'm also fairly certain that the finances would have been managed by his wife, Arlen, who's been dead for years. Also a writer, "relatively successful" [i.e., she's been published in places that paid money, but I don't think enough to live on].)
Writers, painters, musicians...all of these can expect to end life as paupers...if they're lucky. There are exceptions, but that's what they should expect. If Bob was local I'd want to offer him a room and meals. I don't know if I'd be able to, but I'd want to. Unfortunately, he moved away decades ago, and I've lost track of him.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
why should others want to do so or be required to do so
Very simple, because the less desperate people you have in a society, the better life is for everyone. The result of the US mentality of every-man-for-himself is that even the wealthy live like prisoners in their own communities with walls, fences and security guards.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Tell you what, you provide the proof, and I'll send money. I'll need proof of:
:-/ )
That this fellow is indeed who he says he is.
That he is truely unable to pay his rent. (i.e. open the books up)
List of donations and amounts already received, up to date
Details on how the money is definately going to Robert Anton Wilson and no one else.
Details on any and all "administrative fees" or anything else taken out before the money is put towards the rent.
That's a lot of good information to have, and would help assauge worries that this might be a scam. That said, if I (or family) were very ill, and short enough on money to pay rent, I don't think I would have the resources to hire an accountant or provide this level of detail.
It's prudent to wait for proof. However, in the absence of proof, I'm willing to risk a few dollars (I think I was suckered for 20?) in the interest of being generous.
Pros: If this is true, I've been merciful and generous, and helped someone.
Cons: If I've been suckered, the net loss to me is something I'm willing to lose. (I think I wasted more than that when I forgot to cook some meat last month.
I realize that this sort of analysis would also play directly into the hands of a scammer; I just don't care, in this case. I'd rather Do Something and risk being wrong... maybe it's just that I was in a generous feeling mood.
(On a completely unrelated note, how do we do the nifty quoted-text thing, now? =) I'd like better quoting display than just italics.)
The next question would be "Why do we put up with this?" rather than go for a centralized, government run medical system. Back in my more libertarian days there were roughly three arguments that I was impressed by:
- If you artificially reduce prices, demand goes out of control, and you pay for it with long lines (queues).
- A capitalistic medical system leads to more varied medical research, and should help lead to breakthroughs that will ultimately save lives.
- You can't reduce medical profits by fiat without reducing incentives for people to do medical work, and you're likely to end up with creeping mediocrity in the medical professions.
If you actually look at what's going on in the world -- something libertarians seem to have trouble with -- you'll see problems with all of those points. There may be longer waiting periods for some proceedures in, say, Canada, than in the US, but the problem is not so bad that the folks who live there are complaining about it. Medical research is often paid for with government funding in any case -- and then the big drug companies are allowed to patent the discoveries made on the public dime. Good people are only loosely motivated by money, and while there are certainly some brilliant doctors in the US, if you're not sure you can get access to them, they won't do you a lot of good.Just recently I ended up leaving the country to get some major dental work done outside of the United States -- even with my dental coverage plan, it was cheaper to get the work done overseas in Bali than here (including plane fare), and it seemed eaisier to find high-quality dentists to do the work: clearly something is broken in the current quasi/psuedo capitalistic system we have in the United States.