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Microsoft Piracy Plan Means Concerns for IT
coondoggie writes to mention an article on Information Week about possible unintended consequences of the Microsoft Software Protection Plan (SPP) discussed on Slashdot on Wednesday. The new initiative is intended to protect consumers from pirated software, but may cause major headaches for IT shops. From the article: "Microsoft will support SPP in current and future reporting and asset management tools such as System Center Operations Manager. 'On paper it might sound pretty good, but we have to see how it works,' says Jeff Allred, manager of network services for the Duke University Cancer Center. One of his concerns is that a reduced functionality mode kicks in three days after changing out a motherboard in a server if the software is not revalidated. 'That really jumped out at me. We change out motherboards in our servers all the time,' he says. The provision only covers a swap with a non-OEM motherboard, which Allred admits doesn't happen often."
Do you guys do that crazy thing where you, you know, verify the links in a story before clicking the Post button?
Protect consumers from pirated software??? What if I don't want to be protected???
To avoid all the problems with Vista, don't install Vista. Voila. Problem solved. It's like upgrading your OS every time Microsoft puts something new out is a disease that IT suffers from. There are companies who never upgraded NT 4 or 2000 who are doing just fine.
Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
I believe this is the correct link to the story: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/100506-micro soft-antipiracy.html?t5
My work here is dung.
Why do you think you should have a say when it comes to protection on your PC when you don't have a say when it comes to protecting your life? After all, all those cams, that screening, that data mining, all's just done for your protection!
Do you want that? Did you agree to that? Does it matter what you want?
When your consent doesn't matter in things like privacy, why do you think it would when it's only about software?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You can't underestimate the lowest rank of society, but I think a large portion of the general population would understand the issue a lot more if the mainstream press were to rephrase all those headlines by one word:
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Uh, it sounds like you need to find a better vendor if you're changing out motherboards "all the time".
I don't reply to Anonymous posts; if you have something to say to me, identify yourself or I won't reply.
Yes. You've obviously never worked in corporate IT. When a server is down, the last thing you're worried about is contacting the frickin' vendor to get the OS activated. Servers in the corporate datacenter aren't likely to have Internet access. So to getting it activated is going to likely require a phone call. Every minute that server is down, it's costing the company $$$ in lost productivity. And what if someone forgets to do it? Ouch.
My blog
...from pirated software"
Yes, Microsoft designed and built that to protect us hmmhmmm.
the mods may say you posted flamebait, but to me it's a flame that warms my heart. rock on, brother! --chebucto
If it takes you three days to get your servers up and running you probably have bigger problems ...
Well, the article is Slashdotted, but I don't need any expert opinion or research to tell me what it means for IT. I'm the head of an IT department, and it means that I'll be avoiding updates to any Microsoft technology with any "Piracy Prevention", and when I do need an upgrade, I'll be looking for Microsoft alternatives. I have friends who head IT departments, and I'm getting the same sentiment from them.
Not because we pirate. We're too afraid of the BSA sniffing around to do that. The problem is, these things cause problems, artificially created by Microsoft, for no reason. To stop piracy? If I pirated software, then I'd know where to find cracks for these things. Microsoft's "protection" wouldn't stop me.
But I've made a general policy in my department that we've stopped purchasing or installing software that requires "activation" or any other kind of phoning-home. I've run into too many problems where an otherwise working computer breaks itself by the developers own purposeful code because I've done a normal, legal repair job. In a large organization, an instance of the IT dept. replacing some hardware or imaging a disk shouldn't trigger a flag as "suspicious activity".
In my organization, I think we're likely to have more Macintosh purchases. Users like them, they're easy to fix, disk imaging is INCREDIBLY easy, they're reliable, and they work great with our Windows and Linux servers. And we'll see more Linux servers. If Microsoft wants my business back, they can stop trying to limit their OS to do less for me, and start working on how they can improve it to do more for me.
At the college I went to, we have a security lab that is tightly locked down. (No outside machines allowed to connect, and no internet access whatsoever.) This means any activation has to happen over the phone, waiting on hold for a microsoft represenative.
All misspellings and grammatical errors in the above post are intentional and part of my artistic expression.
This was effectively punishing paying customers if they did not continue to pay as often as MS wished. This is a common practice, most products go out of data in a few years, but the MS disregard for paying customers tends to be a bit more extreme. This new proposal is the ultimate indication of that. Your software, that you paid for, has a time bomb that could jeopardize your business, and there is no way to guarantee that it will not affect you.
MS would say, just give us a call and we will fix it. But if I need something ready 10 minutes from now, I need to know that I will not have to call MS because they won't treat me as a paying customer.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Let me raise a very viable scenario that may not have been presented. This is that the system reports a false positive for pirated hardware. Now, the person quoted in the submission works for the Duke Cancer Center; this might mean they get the same licensing deal that the university presumably gets. Now, let me use an example I am familiar with.
At Ohio State, one of the most populous universities in the country, they have a deal with Microsoft that gives students access to Microsoft software on the cheap. At the same time, this deal applies to departments and other machines for the university. Since this deal is based on mass distribution, and in many cases does not include permanent media, if any media at all (basically, students take the disks, install the software, return the disks), everyone uses the same key. This is the case for XP and Server 2003. It is also the case for 2000, in fact the key is "embedded" on the Win 2k disk, so no input is required from the user.
Now, let us assume that OSU has about 50,000 students (not too far off actually). And each student has this version of Vista installed. Now, let us assume each department is using Windows (actually very few at OSU are not), that is even more copies of the software being used. I would venture that it might not be too far fetched to assume that OSU could have 100,000 or more copies of the same OS installed on various student, faculty and departmental machines. Now, the server installations are quite a bit fewer; however, I do know the department I worked for already have several (as in 8-10) servers running various Windows versions. If all these were upgraded to the server equivalent to Vista, then that would mean 10 servers with the same key, and possibly hundreds (if not thousands) across the campus.
Okay, so let us assume none of this duplication creates a false positive. Instead, let us take the example where someone has offered these versions of Windows to the internet as pirated copies. We now hit a new dilemma. There is the potential for massive piracy in this. You cannot simply cut off every version with this key, since you would be cutting off thousands of legitimate copies. You also cannot do some sort of limitation based solely on IP, since students do not live strictly in dorms and since this would enter a new realm of privacy invasion. You see, there is a huge problem with this sort of re-activation issue. You risk hurting many people. Also, for gaming enthusiast who changes components frequently, this could also lead to issues. And what if your MoBo died? Will it be a problem replacing it with another copy of the same board? You should not have to activate this product everytime your system changes. Defeating piracy is one thing, but causing a lot of headache and issues for paying customers is not. In the end, they will only hurt the paying customers, since the hackers will defeat whatever stupid system they come up with anyway.
"Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb."
I agree that if it takes you 3 days to get a server up and running, then your disaster plans suck.
However, consider the following:
- Server crashes due to hardware failure
- Techs follow the existing standard procedure to restore (i.e. replace motherboard)
- Service is restored on time according to SLAs.
- The server continues to happily serve out data and requests.
- Three days pass and suddenly the server is offline *AGAIN* because it wasn't activated and is now refusing requests.
- Spend more time on the phone with Microsoft than it took to replace the motherboard.
Suddenly, that hardware failure had a MUCH larger impact than it had to.
So, eseentially, once you have everything registered to Microsoft, and then you say "you know, I think the mobo in this system sucks. I want to upgrade it for Doom 54" all of the software that you had will have to be re-purchased as the new mobo is not registered to the software. That sounds like a GREAT idea! Just like when the Xbox's were kicking people off of XBL when people had replaced their HD's, and the mobo and HD marriage number didn't match what MS's databse said it should... What a fucking disaster this will become. Bravo Microsoft. Bra-Vo.
Never monkey with another monkey's monkey.
The new initiative is intended to protect consumers from pirated software
Protect the customers from pirated software?
The customers? WTF???
Zonk, can I have some of what you're smoking? Microsoft is protecting themselves from pirated software, not you or me.
Sheesh.
On a slightly related note, it appears that my XP installation is on its last legs; every Windows update makes it slower and slower. As I type this, it keeps momentarily hanging, and there's nothing running but firewall, AV, Firefox, and Winamp.
Damn I am not looking forward to reinstalling it at all. I won't be "upgrading" again; I wish my vid card would get along with Linux. Maybe I'll try Ubantu this time. Anybody know how to get ANY flavor of Linux working with an ATI with an S-video out and a really old 14 inch HP monitor?
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
I guess we never learned anything from the mid 80s.
Software copy protection and DRM don't work. You annoy legitimate users who have a corner case (usually enough for them to buy a competitor's product) and the h4x0rz work around it. The few pennies you save are more than made up for with bad publicity.
I've had to call Microsoft about WinXP activation a few times ... and we lease all our machines from HP. The activation code is on a sticker on the machine. There should not be ANY problems with our activation. Particularly with me because we have two other people who do desktop support. And we have just over 100 desktops.
But between key generators and lazy co-workers who use the wrong codes on the wrong machines, I've had to call Microsoft to straighten this out a few times.
And I'm in a small company.
Microsoft's stated plan depends too much (entirely) upon the honesty/skill of my co-workers and the failure of key generators.
No fucking way, dude. Why should I waste MY time (emphasis on the fact that it is MY fucking time) because Microsoft is too lazy/stupid to figure out a better way of doing this?
Novell, way back when, used to link their licenses to specific companies and you could call them and they would tell you every license you had registered with them. If you lost a license disk, they would replace it.
Microsoft refuses to do the same. Even with the improved technology that we have today. They would rather put the burden on ME to:
a. Make sure that nothing does go wrong.
and
b. Call them when something does go wrong.
I used to work as a subcontractor in a classified secure facility. We ran into an activation nightmare not once, but twice. The problem was that the PC I was installing onto didn't have (and would never have) an internet connection, nor was there a commerical phone in the room where the machine was. The rest of the operation was all Suns and SGIs, but my boss insisted on a Windows machine, which had to be a retail version because we weren't supported by the facility host company and we couldn't use our company's volume license because of association issues.
What ended up happening is that we had to walk through the XP Pro "enter each line into your touch-tone phone" thing without the phone, writing everything down, leave the area, call, write down everything the phone system told us, then come back into the area. Something messed up the first time and it ended up taking over an hour to get it done and working. We had a similar (but not quite as frustrating) experience activating Macromedia Flash.
Given how bad this experience was (and this was pre-WGA!), I can't imagine what a nightmare it would be if Vista suddenly decided it wasn't legit in that sort of environment. I have heard from my former co-workers that they've basically abandoned that machine and are using linux for all their day-to-day work. It interoperates better with the big iron anyway.
Side note on the unintended consequence of this: I removed the windows software on the box and moved to a linux based solution because I couldn't activate. I am sure I am not the only one who has done so.
Proof by very large bribes. QED.
Yes, you did.
Say you are a home user with maybe two or three computers that you want to upgrade to Vista. Okay, you either do an Internet registration or you spend a few minutes on the phone with Microsoft activating your new O/S. No problem. Even if you have to reactivate a few times when you swap out components due to upgrades, failures, what-have-you, it's still not *that* much of a PITA.
Now, you are working desktop support for a small corporation with ~100 desktops. You are upgrading to Vista, you have a volume license for the O/S and you basically build an image for each type of desktop you have, then load the image on each individual desktop. Now, you have to walk through the activation process *100 times* to roll out the new O/S. And, every time someone in that company has a hard drive fail, or someone on the network picks up a virus that corrupts executables on their computer, or <insert reason to re-image here> you have to call M$ and reactivate again. THAT is a PITA.
Now, you work for a very large company with 5,000 desktops. How many man-hours is that company going to waste on product activation now???
IMHO, if Microsoft wants to drive their legitimate business to alternative operating systems, they are going about it the right way. I decided not to *ever* buy another MS operating system after Win2K when they launched the consumer product activation requirement in XP (and I've been quite happy with Slackware or Gentoo since). I expect more corporations will make the same choice now that Vista will be doing the same thing to volume customers.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
If hardware, other than the hard drive, goes down and needs swapped then most likely you will need to reactivate. It will depend on the type and amount of hardware that goes down, but the article was about MOTHERBOARD swaps. Those will frequently trigger WGA and require activation, unless you replace it with the exact same make & model.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Looking through the WGA trounleshooting forums, it appears that MS is already blocking VLKs (Volume License Keys) based on their IP address. The most common way to block VLKs by IP address seems to be by region. For example, there's little chance that an OSU license would be legitimately used in Chna, so it'd block that VLK from Chinese IP addresses. If there is a legitimate need to use a volume-licensed copy there, either a VPN would work, or MS could easily issue a seperate key (and they have big incentive to do so).
Just wondering as I have not seen anything official on this, but what happens when a product that requires activation is EOL'd by Microsoft? I understand that support and patches will stop, but that is often less of an issue for large businesses with internal tech suport and decent security in place, but what happens if you need to reactivate a product? Will the activation system still be available or is this yet another method of forcing corporate and home customers to carry out periodic upgrades?
Anyway,
Thanks
I've upgraded the bios on a motherboard and have had WPA reactivation triggered, granted this MB had everything intergrated on it. Microsoft is following the game manufactures, inconveincing there legitimate users, and making a pirated product look better then there own.
Which would you rather use? A game that requires 15 to 20 seconds to validate that your cd is orginal, or a no-cd patch that opens instantly?
Which would you rather use? An operating system that shuts down if you swap out hardware, or a crack that allows you to swap out failed components?
I personally chose linux whenever possible. As long as you have your drivers and filesystem support compiled in your kernel, you could swap between Intel and AMD processor and the OS wouldn't give a damn.
Microsoft has already set up a huge problem with keys. Single copy OEM editions of Windows require that the OEM tag is affixed to the outside of the computer. Great now the validation key is in plain site of anyone who wants to steal it. A pissed off employee could copy them all down and post them on a message board...
The local grocery store has registers that run windows (this already seems like a dumb idea), the CD key is stuck to them in view of the customer. Just whip out your cell phone cam, and you have another cd key.
What is the solution, I'm not sure, but I do have a theroretical idea, though I wouldn't do it because its probably not legal. Copy every cd key you see and post them to the internet. Make product activation such a huge problem that businesses look to other operating systems for relief.
I would like to draw attention to the phrase, "The new initiative is intended to protect consumers from pirated software".
HUH?
protect consumers from pirated software? Protect? Are unathroized copies of Windows raping and pillaging towns along the Atlantic coast?
To my knowledge there has never been any harm to, "consumers".
The measure is intended to protect Microsoft from losses from authorized copying.
Microsoft has already set up a huge problem with keys. Single copy OEM editions of Windows require that the OEM tag is affixed to the outside of the computer.
Yeah, isn't that the most fucking annoying thing EVER?! We build high end workstations and servers for small/medium sized business and industry customers. When we first started getting OEM boxes of Win2K years ago, and I saw the massive red warning signs in the OEM box stating we had to attache the CD Key sticker to the case, I laughed my ass off. Yeah, right, we are going to do that. NOT! No, instead we simply attach the sitcker to the back of the Win2K OEM booklet, right over the damn warning that says the sticker needs to go on the case.
What sucks is when we have to work on other peoples cheap crap boxes, like Dell or IBM, and we have to re-install the OS. Most people like to cram their workstations between the desk and the wall, or in some corner. So you have to practicaly disconnect and pull the damn thing out just to get at the CD Key! THAT IS ABSURD! Our customers simply grab their Win2K CD booklet and hand us the CD Key for re-install.
And who the fuck does MS think they are to try and force us to put sticers on a customers computer? What if every software company did this? Business computers would be covered in all kinds of ugly stickers! No, this whole sticker on the case issue is absolutely unacceptable...
Eh? What's that? You don't have an exit strategy? My God man, have you been paying no attention at all for the last four years? You've slept through all the warnings? You didn't think through XP Registration and where it was headed? You slept right through WGA? Maybe you should panic. Best get cracking on a plan. The rest of you slow down, take your time BUT GET THE HELL OFF THIS SHIP BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO STILL BE HERE IN FIVE YEARS
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
1) This is the best thing ever for Linux.
2) There will be a crack out soon. My guess perhaps a month. Six months tops. If it takes more than a year I will be very surprised, and exceptionally happy. Why happy? See point 1.
455fe10422ca29c4933f95052b792ab2
I think you didnt read the post.
The scenario is that they replaced the motherboard.
No OS install required.
emt 377 emt 4