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The Web as Political Weapon

cultrhetor writes "John Harris of the Washington Post has noticed that the three largest recent political controversies have stemmed from work done by digital inhabitants. In the article, New Media a Weapon in the New World of Politics, he notes the connections between the recent scandals involving Mark Foley, George Allen, and Bill Clinton were representative of the new, web-driven age of American politics." From the article: "Each originally percolated in the world of new media — Web sites and news outlets that did not exist a generation ago — before charging into the traditional world of newspapers and television networks. In each case, the accusations quickly pivoted into a debate about the motivations and alleged biases of the accusers. Cumulatively, the stories highlight a new brand of politics in which nearly any revelation in the news becomes a weapon or shield in the daily partisan wars, and the aim of candidates and their operatives is not so much to win an argument as to brand opponents as fundamentally unfit."

146 comments

  1. A matter of time... by BWJones · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is the problem with most folks in Washington DC. I read this article this morning and thought "well, yeah....". For those of us that have been using the Internet since (or in close proximity to) it's DARPA days, the fact that the Internet is being used for political purposes is not surprising or new for that matter.

    What is new I believe is that we now have a critical mass or a critical number of participants present on the Internet. I hate to say it, because I loathe the term, but what John Harris (author of the Washington Post article) has discovered is "Internet 2.0", or the evolution and delivery of many of the promises that the Internet originally offered. And, like any tool, those that have been around for a while knew that the Internet can and will be used as both tools for good and as a weapon for selfish, self-aggrandizing acts, subversion and propaganda.

    It was only a matter of time...

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:A matter of time... by sgt_doom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I sort of disagree with you. What is new is that the Web is about the only place most Americans, and others in certain countries, are able to get any actual news. We certainly can't get much factual (fact-checked) news from the Wash. Post, NY Times et al.

    2. Re:A matter of time... by wizbit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Allen gaffe and to a lesser extent the Foley scandal were representative of our web-enabled, always-Google-cached, everything-logged and archived lives. I think anyone who wants to run for office has to seriously consider everything they've ever said online as potential political ammunition for the opposition. Of course, politicians have spinsters and communications staffs working hard to mitigate any potentially embarassing material out there. But in an age where all it takes is a group of bloggers with some patience, free time, and Google to unravel, for example, a major media outlet's story about a certain president's National Guard service, you know the internet has truly arrived as a deadly effective political weapon.

    3. Re:A matter of time... by s20451 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What is new is that the Web is about the only place most Americans, and others in certain countries, are able to get any actual news. We certainly can't get much factual (fact-checked) news from the Wash. Post, NY Times et al.

      I find this comment funny in the context of the article. Look at any politically-oriented blog. They all spend half their time bitching about shitty, biased reporting in the "MSM", and the other half of their time breathlessly quoting whatever paper they just trashed, because that paper happened to write an article which flatters their prejudices.

      --
      Toronto-area transit rider? Rate your ride.
    4. Re:A matter of time... by mordors9 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sorta, kinda... The average guy out on the street has no clue what some political dweeb says on his blog unless the mainstream media starts reporting on it. If it looks like it could be big story the media may jump on it, to avoid being left in the dust by the rest of the herd. One really dangerous thing I see occurring is the mainstream media uses the fact it was published on the net as an excuse to do no fact checking at all as long as the net article or blog takes the position that the reporting media wants to report. They simply attribute it and make the average viewer assume that it must be true if it is being reported.

    5. Re:A matter of time... by jejones · · Score: 2, Funny

      Of course, politicians have spinsters...working hard...

      As an aging male nerd, I feel discriminated against; I guess a career in politics is out for me.

    6. Re:A matter of time... by purpledinoz · · Score: 1

      Television and radio are also being used for political purposes. Fox News is a good example of right-wing manipulation of television. It shouldn't be alarming or surprising that the Internet is being used for political purposes. It should be alarming that politicians are discrediting and projecting their oppponents as unfit, rather than debating an issue. The republican's blasting of John Kerry's military record is an example of this (which is horrible considering Bush's horrible military record).

      What should be most alarming is the voters being swayed by these political tactics. Politicans that are getting in office are the ones that are able to discredit their opponents. Not the ones who come up with solutions to the country's problems.

      Democracy in the US is seriously broken, and it's not the Internet's fault. It's the voter's fault. Unfortunately, things will have to get real bad before people start caring and voting for what's best for their country, instead of voting for whatever party is able to dish out the best BS.

    7. Re:A matter of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think anyone who wants to run for office has to seriously consider everything they've ever said online as potential political ammunition for the opposition.

      What, that's new? Look at Ahnold dealing with misogynist comments he said decades ago, or Kinky Friedman being pummeled by racist punchlines from jokes he dropped from his repetoire years ago.

      Everyone has skeletons in the closet, the politicians that succed are the ones who do the best job of hiding them, or distracting everyone ("I didn't inhale/have vaginal intercourse/etc." or "This document is obviously shopped, I know this because I've memorized every typewriter ever used by the National Guard and the font wheels available for each, and by the pixels in this low res TV shot.")

      The internet just makes hiding them harder.

    8. Re:A matter of time... by 0xABADC0DA · · Score: 2, Informative

      The 'rather documents' are a good lesson on how the 'blogosphere' can fail miserably. Anybody familiar with Rove's past realizes that the content of the document was almost certainly entirely correct with only the format being fake. Even if CBS had done the due diligence in verifying this document that agreed with all their eye witness accounts and determined it was a fraud, they would have had to question everything else with the same information. That's just human nature to transfer the fraud from document to its contents even though there is no logical basis to do so.

      The problem with bloggers is that they each have a narrow perspective and clear biases. Few see the big picture, because they don't want to, so the blogs are easy to manipulate. For instance, if we found out that the printer used to print the document was assigned to Rove's office then clearly either he was trying to sabotage the pres (unlikely) or was trying to create a straw-man to knock down (likely). Instead, without knowing where the document came from, the conservative bloggers claim the document was 'fake' so therefore the eyewitnesses were lying and also it was a left-wing hit. Of course this reasoning is pretty stupid if you stop to think about it.

      Anyway maybe you count this as a success for bloggers, but don't color me impressed.

    9. Re:A matter of time... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      Granted. Point taken. But if one peruses several hundred blogs per day, one will be adequately versed in the news and world events...

    10. Re:A matter of time... by DerekLyons · · Score: 1
      I sort of disagree with you. What is new is that the Web is about the only place most Americans, and others in certain countries, are able to get any actual news. We certainly can't get much factual (fact-checked) news from the Wash. Post, NY Times et al.

      So where exactly on the web *do* they find factual (fact checked) news? Not from bloggers - who mostly quote each other and the sources you decry. When they aren't doing that - they are producing 'news' that fits their own slant.
    11. Re:A matter of time... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Blogs aren't the real power here. The real capacity is comments like the one you just made. People, in most cases anyone, can call someone out on a point, and asside from things like moderation systems, there's nothing ot keep people from reading them comment themselves.

      Letters to the editor won't appear until the next day, but what I'm saying right now, will crop up in a couple of seconds(once slashcode's done with it)

    12. Re:A matter of time... by dan828 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but it also enables people to watch the news cycle and major outlet coverage an see things that we never saw before. Watch any big news event, and you see that within hours all of the major news organizations morph into one single point of view, one standard story that they then all cover in the same fashion. Or notice how coverage from place to place differs based on the bias of the outlet and the tastes of its audience. Read a story in Al-Jazeera and then in the Jerusalem Post for some of the more extreme differences.

      And the oversight that the bloggers have put on the news media has been mostly for the good. BS stories, doctored photos, and fabricated evidence, that they used to get away with, and getting discovered now.

    13. Re:A matter of time... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      And to build upon your comment - while there is such a thing as web-scrubbing - few leters to the editor ever make it into print. Personally, as I've pointed out numerous errors to the editors of my hometown newspapers - and questioned why the refused to fact-check - they absolutely refuse to print any of my letters to the editor.....

    14. Re:A matter of time... by brkello · · Score: 1

      And, like any tool, those that have been around for a while knew that the Internet can and will be used as both tools for good and as a weapon for selfish, self-aggrandizing acts, subversion and propaganda.

      Fortunately, in the case of Foley, we have stopped a very sick person from preying on children. It sickens me that the Republicans are somehow trying to blame Democrats and web sites about this. This isn't a partisan issue. The man is really messed up and took advantage of his position of power. Any PERSON (Democrat or Republican) that covered for him or passed the buck to someone else should be canned.

      --
      Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
    15. Re:A matter of time... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      First you read the sites below, then do your own research to verify them - if you so choose:

      www.commondreams.org, www.truthout.org, www.liarsandcrooks.com, www.worldnews.com, www.americaneconomicalert.org, and you'll have to google the rest as I've got to go now....

    16. Re:A matter of time... by Nurseman · · Score: 1
      Blogs aren't the real power here.



      one word. Drudge. Love him hate him. He began this. Drudge put blogs on the map.

      --
      Save a Life. Donate Blood. Please.
    17. Re:A matter of time... by Arcane_Rhino · · Score: 1

      So you are saying that a document that was presented as a smoking gun to prove what the democrats wanted to be true definitely was true - even though the document was fraudulent - because we already knew the information that the fraudulent document proved true was true. Even though we had no proof.

      Whatever.

      The fact is that Dan Rather stepped on his dick by presenting a fraudulent document as true and NOBODY gets away with that shit anymore, left or right. If somebody makes a claim that is false, somebody else is going to call them on it. Neither side can make unsubstantiated claims with impunity.

    18. Re:A matter of time... by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "Neither side can make unsubstantiated claims with impunity"

      Unless they have Karl Rove working for them.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    19. Re:A matter of time... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      Well said, Citizen wizbit, and especially appropriate when one considers Operation Mockingbird and what passes for news lately....

    20. Re:A matter of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...in an age where all it takes is a group of bloggers with some patience, free time, and Google to unravel, for example, a major media outlet's story about a certain president's National Guard service, you know the internet has truly arrived as a deadly effective political weapon..."

      "deadly effective"?? I see he's still in office, and has LOTS of political supporters despite that being found years ago.

    21. Re:A matter of time... by Arcane_Rhino · · Score: 1

      Unless they have Karl Rove working for them.

      Moofie: Who the hell is Karl Rove? And what I mean by this is what is his history?

      To every republican or conservative I know he is just like, you know, this guy. To democrats and liberals, he is Satan incarnate (well, if they believed in Satan that is), who is a masterful tactician and master manipulator. Every time they mention him it is with fear and loathing.

      If he is that good, and the dems want to take over the country, maybe they should offer him more money and power than he has now.

    22. Re:A matter of time... by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you ask John McCain if he's "just this guy".

      Karl Rove is the master of the whisper campaign. I think he is responsible for the tenor of modern American politics, which is a Bad Thing. He is indeed successful. I just wish success tracked more closely to integrity than to stooping to anything.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    23. Re:A matter of time... by dogod · · Score: 1

      well that "child" was 18. and it ended up as being a joke , that the media and liberals thuoght was really the truth. why bother to do any research as long as it serves its politcal goal.

    24. Re:A matter of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You are proving my point with your inability to read and think logically. The fact is that the document was printed recently, but this means nothing about whether the contents are accurate or not. The contents could be made up, or retyped verbatim from an original, or some mix of the two.

      This document was evidence that corroborated the story that several eyewitnesses reported. Even without the document there is plenty of evidence, but because the document was printed recently you assume that it and the other evidence is 'made up'. In other words, if there is one thing wrong then it is all wrong, which is just stupid. Honestly, if you believe a document being printed recently means its contents are necessarily wrong then there is one word to describe you: retard.

      Look I'm not trying to insult... you are insulting yourself by holding these irrational views. If you want to be a person who does not think critically, fine, continue on in your ignorance. If not, you need to snap out of this mental fog you are lost in, pronto.

    25. Re:A matter of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact [...] Dan Rather [...] presenting a fraudulent document

      The person who is discussing this with you is being too generous. CBS News performed a high level investigation of the documents showing Bush did not attend his National Guard service (how did a C student get into the Texas National Guard during the Vietnam War to begin with?). The investigation was headed by a Republican. The conclusion of the investigation: it is impossible to say whether or not the document was a fabrication or a copy of the real document due to it having gone through too many generations of copies. They did find criticisms, like typography and font, without basis, as these methods of typography and fonts were in fact available at the time the document is dated.

      But even if you do not agree with the results of the investigation, the other point still stands: multiple people corroborated the contents of the documents and there exists a high degree of certainty George Bush failed to perform his duty even in the cush job of national guardsman during the Vietnam War.

      Another interesting fact: the same month Bush's record of attendance slips (and there is no record of Bush receiving the required yearly physical that year or after) coincides with the National Guard implementing a new policy of mandatory drug testing. Several years later Bush will be arrested and convicted of drunk driving, making him the first criminal to reside in the white house as Commander-in-Chief.

    26. Re:A matter of time... by smchris · · Score: 1

      the other half of their time breathlessly quoting whatever paper they just trashed, because that paper happened to write an article which flatters their prejudices.

      I think you are repeating a popularly fatuous nihilism.

      I praise sources like the British Guardian or Independent, for instance, when George Bush talks about a bioweapons site in Iraq and a paper runs an article with photos like, "Here we are on site at the CHICKEN FARM the U.S. recently called a bioweapens facility." I do demand facts from primary sources as an educated liberal. I see far too many people on the other side in the U.S. only requiring a talking head spouting groundless opinion. No one would say the New England Journal of Medicine "flatters the prejudices" of rational people but political discussion in the U.S. has completely gone down the rabbit hole of insubstantiality. Paul Krugman's judgement of the currnet state of our media is sadly on the point, "If a presidential candidate were to declare that the earth is flat, you would be sure to see a news analysis under the headline 'Shape of the Planet: Both Sides Have a Point.'"

      But that nihilism is quite literally deranged. And there are consequences. A doubt an insane country functions any better in the world than an insane individual in society.

    27. Re:A matter of time... by Grym · · Score: 1

      You are proving my point with your inability to read and think logically. The fact is that the document was printed recently, but this means nothing about whether the contents are accurate or not. The contents could be made up, or retyped verbatim from an original, or some mix of the two.

      But that's not how they presented it. Dan Rather didn't say "Oh here's a document that was transcribed from a carving on the wall made by the man who read the original." They presnted the document as the original, or at least a direct photo-copy of the original when it wasn't.

      This document was evidence that corroborated the story that several eyewitnesses reported.

      The Rather-gate document not evidence of anything. Or at least the type of evidence that you think it means. Being that it is of dubious origin and authenticity, it's no better than heresy, regardless of whether or not the contents are true.

      Let's try a little thought experiment. If I had a dream of still, secret meeting between Dick Cheny and the Energy companies in 2001 and typed up a transcript and submitted it to the Dateline, should they be able to use that as evidence? Now what if that transcript by chance alone just so happened to be entirely accurate, should they be able to use it?

      -Grym

    28. Re:A matter of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The Rather-gate document not evidence of anything. Or at least the type of evidence that you think it means. Being that it is of dubious origin and authenticity, it's no better than heresy, regardless of whether or not the contents are true.

      *hearsay

      -Grym

    29. Re:A matter of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Again, lack of critical thinking skills. First, why Dateline? Because it has no credibility as serious investigative journalism. Thus, a strawman designed to make your argument, which you are setting up to shoot down, seem even more outlandish. Not very honest of you.

      Second, an actual decent analogy would be the news organization getting a documenent without knowing where it came from. Maybe it came from your dream. Or maybe you gave it to them anonymously to avoid prison/retribution. In any case, in the worst case it does nothing to impugn other evidence they have. Engage brain. Consider the evidence completely exclusive of the 'fake' document. Other evidence cannot be made fake by vitue of this fake document.

      As you yourself have shown, where the document came from is very important, sometimes even moreso than when it is from. CBS was snowed by somebody and the question is who? Was it themselves (ie they made up the document)? Was it Rove? Was it some dude trying to steal credit (and how did he get it to match the other evidence)? These are valid questions that concern the document.

      You obviously have a strong opinion on this document. So tell us, where is this document from? Where was it printed? Who is the source of it? I'll save you the trouble: "I don't know", "I don't know", "I don't know". Yet you make many assumptions about its contents. Pretty sad, my brother.

    30. Re:A matter of time... by Grym · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Again, lack of critical thinking skills. First, why Dateline? Because it has no credibility as serious investigative journalism. Thus, a strawman designed to make your argument, which you are setting up to shoot down, seem even more outlandish. Not very honest of you.

      It's a hypothetical example, and the news program itself is ultimately irrelevant to my point. Would you prefer 20/20? Okay... 20/20 it is.

      Second, an actual decent analogy would be the news organization getting a document without knowing where it came from. Maybe it came from your dream. Or maybe you gave it to them anonymously to avoid prison/retribution. In any case, in the worst case it does nothing to impugn other evidence they have. Engage brain. Consider the evidence completely exclusive of the 'fake' document. Other evidence cannot be made fake by vitue of this fake document.

      I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. Sure... the content of the anonymous doucment may still be true, but without a credible origin or authoritative source for the document, it might as well be made-up because it's no better than a rumor.

      And while a journalistic investigation may begin with a rumor, it certainly shouldn't end with one being the centerpiece of one's story.

      You obviously have a strong opinion on this document. So tell us, where is this document from? Where was it printed? Who is the source of it? I'll save you the trouble: "I don't know", "I don't know", "I don't know". Yet you make many assumptions about its contents. Pretty sad, my brother.

      I honestly don't. George W. Bush probably did goof off 40 years ago. I honestly couldn't give a shit about that or John Kerry's swift boat.

      I do, however, have a strong opinion about journalistic integrity, and the effect of its absence in our news organizations has hurt our nation. If you feel a major news organization should send to print any and everything that seems true at the time, fine. But I don't--let's save that crap for the entertainment magazines.

      -Grym

    31. Re:A matter of time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      It's a hypothetical example, and the news program itself is ultimately irrelevant to my point. Would you prefer 20/20? Okay... 20/20 it is.

      Another straw man argument.

      If you feel a major news organization should send to print any and everything that seems true at the time, fine. But I don't

      And again.

      You have not demonstrated an ability to carry on a rational, honest debate. Perhaps you should try living by the sword you swing, before you get hurt by it.
  2. No fair! by overunderunderdone · · Score: 1

    The Web as Political Weapon

    The old media complaint about this?
    "Hey, No fair! That's our job!"

  3. Hmm, Bruce sterling predicted this sort of thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    about 10 years ago..

    Distraction was about just that, kinda scary.

  4. What the ... ? by khasim · · Score: 1
    Former congressman Mark Foley (R-Fla.) ended his political career over sexually charged e-mails to former House pages. Sen. George Allen (R-Va.) stumbled over his puzzling use of the word "macaca" and his clumsy response to revelations about his Jewish ancestry. Former president Bill Clinton had a televised temper fit when an interviewer challenged his terrorism record.

    Two of those three "examples" happened on television. During regular news programming.

    How is this "new media"?
    1. Re:What the ... ? by wizbit · · Score: 1

      The Webb campaign worked hard to get the Allen tape - which was eventually picked up by local and national media outlets - out to bloggers and smaller media webs. The fact that the buzz on such a story is able to start at the grassroots and eventually affect national media coverage is tremendous, and not something that was seen as recently as a decade ago. "Regular news programming" probably would've taken a pass on SR Sidarth's tape had it not been viewed tens of thousands of times on YouTube prior to landing on their desk or showing up in some of the higher-profile blogs out there.

    2. Re:What the ... ? by vertinox · · Score: 1

      Two of those three "examples" happened on television. During regular news programming.

      Because if it wasn't for the web, these videos would have been swept under the rug rather quickley and we wouldn't have been able to posts links on blogs to youtube.

      Remember, most kids these days get their news from the Dailyshow or not at all.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    3. Re:What the ... ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He also forgot about the Plame investigation.

      For two and a half years, the press was telling us that it was a major scandal. It was certainly much bigger than the "macaca" thing. But then early this year the whole investigation seems to have fizzled away, once the it was revealed that none of the favorite villains like Karl Rove could be implicated.

    4. Re:What the ... ? by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 1

      The whole thing fizzled away when it became clear that nobody was going to be punished for their treason. Plame was an active agent gathering information about nuclear weapons research in Iran. Do you suppose we need someone like that these days? There's more to justice than simply finding out what happened. The guilty need to be punished, and steps taken to prevent it from happening again.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    5. Re:What the ... ? by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      .. the whole investigation seems to have fizzled away..

      Nope, it didn't so much fizzle as the government - through MSM newsies on the government payroll (and for any skeptics, please review the media history over the past thirty years) - has now proclaimed that the "innocent" Armitage (mister official neocon bagman) is supposed to have been the first leak. This administration does indeed successfully manipulate the news, which is why the blogosphere in the web continuum will be the only place this subject can be honestly addressed.....

    6. Re:What the ... ? by 10e6Steve · · Score: 1

      The WEBB campaign uses the WEB as a campaign tool.

  5. All fine and dandy.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ....till astroturfing ruins it....further.

  6. Clinton scandal? by h4ter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry, I fail to see how Clinton's reaction to that Fox question constitutes a scandal. There was a REAL Clinton scandal once, but trying to shoehorn this in as anything more than a brief display of anger is pretty ridiculous.

    1. Re:Clinton scandal? by Plutonite · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think they're referring to the way he pwned that Fox anchor. If I headed the Fox network, it would sure as hell be a scandal in my books.

    2. Re:Clinton scandal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was more than a brief display of anger it was a calculated strategic display of anger. The conservatives gain a lot of political ground by accusing the "old media" (established media outlets like ABC and CBS, CNN included also) of being liberal baised and not credible. That outburst was a calculated opening offensive in the counteroffensive that would label the "new media" (newer more flashy news outlets like Fox News) as right biased and non credible in it's reporting.

      Currently the only media viewed as "credible" by the majority of the population is the "new media". If the dems can alter this perception the Repubs will have lost a "credible" mouthpiece they have used to their advantage in the past.

      Clinton's outburst was a calculated move in a larger strategy.

      While I was looking for info on this I ran across Mark Levins site. I had never heard of the guy but apparently he is on the radio. In his blog entry he was saying Clinton rails against "Neo-Cons" using that phrase as a codeword for Jews. I just laughed and though WTF does that even mean? THe Neo-con movement is the evangelical wing of the republican party.

      http://levin.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YWMwMjUxNz lmYjJiZTg4MGE0ZWE1Y2NkMDkwYjBkZGE=

    3. Re:Clinton scandal? by ndansmith · · Score: 2, Informative
      Sorry, I fail to see how Clinton's reaction to that Fox question constitutes a scandal. There was a REAL Clinton scandal once, but trying to shoehorn this in as anything more than a brief display of anger is pretty ridiculous.


      However, it was Matt Drudge who frist broke the Monica Lewinsky affair. So Clinton has had a scandal which was majorly affected by the internet. I wonder if the article was really referring to this. But I agree that recent Clinton interview was no "scandal."

    4. Re:Clinton scandal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Agreed. Clinton's show of courage and genuine straight-talking against the lies and misdirection propagated by the likes of Fox News (and far too much of the media) energized the Democratic base (and independents who don't like the daily Republican shredding of the Constitution) as much as the revelation the Republican leadership is taking responsibility for allowing Foley continued access to teenaged pages the same way Bush has taken responsibility for the failure in Iraq (i.e., by not taking responsibility).

      I saw a great bumper sticker today: "Foley. Just another "page" from the Republican playbook."

      In a way it is. This truly disgusting Republican sex scandal has taken away media air time from analysis of the revelations in Woodward's new book that the supposedly independent 9/11 Commission completely left out the fact that George Bush's Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice received an intensive briefing back in July before 9/11 about the level of terrorism threat increasing, the imminence of attacks inside the United States, and specific information that airplanes would be involved. None of this information was passed on to the general public. For those who believe her lies about the meeting, Ashcroft, the then-attorney general, received the same briefing one week later. That same week he stopped flying on commercial airliners. This fact is documented by contemporaneous news reports.

      Oh, and then there is always the PDB. This briefing George Bush received. It is from more than a month before 9/11. The title is Bin Ladin Determined to Strike In the US.

    5. Re:Clinton scandal? by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      THe Neo-con movement is the evangelical wing of the republican party.

      I disagree. The so called Neo-Cons are the big business Republicans.

      Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush are all different kinds of Conservatives.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    6. Re:Clinton scandal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neocon, Zionist... the important thing is the "o", which stands for Joooos!

      Seriously, though, look at some of this stuff:
      Neoconservatism as a Jewish movement

      The thesis presented here is that neoconservatism is indeed a Jewish intellectual and political movement.

      Our Jewish Keepers
      The neoconservative Jews' thirst for Iraqi blood began years before 9-11, of course, as did their determination to find a justification for spilling it.

      That is a Racist Slur
      Tam Dalyell's belief that a 'cabal' of neoconservative Jews controls Bush is gaining currency in liberal circles

      Whose War?
      Who are the neoconservatives? The first generation were ex-liberals, socialists, and Trotskyites, boat-people from the McGovern revolution who rafted over to the GOP at the end of conservatism's long march to power with Ronald Reagan in 1980.

      A neoconservative, wrote Kevin Phillips back then, is more likely to be a magazine editor than a bricklayer. Today, he or she is more likely to be a resident scholar at a public policy institute such as the American Enterprise Institute (AEI) or one of its clones like the Center for Security Policy or the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). As one wag writes, a neocon is more familiar with the inside of a think tank than an Abrams tank.

      In any case, they're not part of the "religious right" (or even the "big business conservatives"). They aren't conservatives at all (but neither, imo, is GWB). Now I must go rinse my eyeballs, but I hope this explains where the "codeword for 'Jews'" bit comes from...it isn't imagined, although I'm not quite sure what it has to do with Clinton.

    7. Re:Clinton scandal? by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      Name me one prominent person commonly called neocon who is a Jew, other than Wolfowitz. The person has to also be currently active in politics as well.

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  7. The web is out of control and must be destroyed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Post haste.

  8. Webons of mass destruction! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "You're either web us or against us." ;-)

  9. Uh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Each originally percolated in the world of new media -- Web sites and news outlets that did not exist a generation ago -- before charging into the traditional world of newspapers and television networks

    Except the Lewinsky scandal, the only one of these three scandals which so far has been known to have any political impact... which definitely first appeared on the internet,

    but first made it to the internet in the form of a story that Michael Isikoff had written a story for old-media standard Newsweek about the affair but Newsweek hadn't published it yet,

    and was only able to make it to Newsweek and thus the internet at all because of tapes recorded at the behest of Lucianne Goldberg, a book publisher and old-media mogul if ever there was one.

    The internet isn't a change in who holds power over the media. It's just a change in how those who hold power over the media use it.

  10. open source media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This is the only way we can take back control from the rich white men with agendas who run these big media coroporations.

    1. Re:open source media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who's "we" and how are you about to make it any better?

  11. Same Old Media by pfz · · Score: 0

    It's still the same old media spewing the same old stories. For some reason, people don't believe news is news unless it comes from the TV or newspaper. Bloogers rights, please? Most judges say NO! There is a call for a real media revolution!

    ALTERNATIVE FREEDOM

    A documentary about the invisible war on culture.
    Features EFF Attorney JASON SCHULTZ, RMS, DANGER MOUSE (of Gnarls Barkley and the Grey Album), LAWRENCE LESSIG, and more...

    http://alternativefreedom.org/

  12. I'll disagree with that. by khasim · · Score: 1
    The fact that the buzz on such a story is able to start at the grassroots and eventually affect national media coverage is tremendous, and not something that was seen as recently as a decade ago.

    Sure it would have. We used to see that all the time in newspapers and on television and the radio. A local group does some digging and finds something and it becomes a nation-wide sensation.

    "Regular news programming" probably would've taken a pass on SR Sidarth's tape had it not been viewed tens of thousands of times on YouTube prior to landing on their desk or showing up in some of the higher-profile blogs out there.

    But that is more about the current state of "news programming" (it sucks) than about "new media".

    We used to have "investigative reporting" and such. Think back to Watergate.
    1. Re:I'll disagree with that. by wizbit · · Score: 1

      We still have "investigative reporting" (e.g. Bob Woodward et al). My point is most average joes would not normally have the kind of clout with the press that a Woodward-type has, but scandals like the guard memos and such have elevated bloggers to the point where the major cable outlets regularly devote segments to "the blogosphere." My favorite crossover is when the beat reporters get into the blog game - even getting their blogs promoted by the major media outlets (as is the case with my local paper's website, philly.com). Some of the reporter blogs are extremely readable, providing better coverage where the regular constraints of daily publication are not applied.

      See e.g. Dick Polman or Howard Kurtz - great reporters with great blogs. When traditional media embraces this kind of outlet, I think you can make an argument that "new media" has arrived, yes.

  13. Slashdot Seems Part Of The Problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Every weekend /. seems to get deeper into the political articles that are geared for creating more heat than light. It's becoming an end in itself and looks bad.

  14. Anyone else find it odd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...that the Mark Foley stuff didn't come out until JUST before the 2006 election?

    Apparently people had known about it since this time last year and did nothing about it - presumably because it wasn't an election year and it wouldn't have hurt the Republicans.

    Then, suddenly, as the 2006 elections are about to be held, BANG! Out comes the Mark Foley stuff.

    I wonder how long the Democrats actually knew about it before releasing it... (I'm well aware that the Republicans were aware of it before the Democrats, but I still get the feeling that they sat on it until the right time for maximum political damage. Doesn't excuse the Republicans from trying to cover it up, of course, but I can't help feeling like announcing it now was a Democrat power play.)

    1. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Pentavirate · · Score: 0, Troll

      Of course it was a political play. It's the "October Surprise". It turns out that Hastart had heard that Foley was a little over friendly with the pages a few years ago. Everyone is saying that he should have done something about that then, but think about it. What should he have done? Launched an investigation against one of the few homosexuals in the Republican party based on something as subjective as "a little over friendly"? That would have been taken and ran with by the Democrats! A year ago Hastert saw the e-mails but they weren't bad enough (no where near as bad as the IM messages) to do anything about. Even 2 large Florida newspapers that knew about it didn't run the story because they didn't feel they warranted it. Now the IMs surface just before the election that were misreported as happening with a minor (Jorden Edmund was 18) and were quite possibly a prank and setup. This has definitely been blown out of proportion by those who want to take advantage of the situation.

    2. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Arcane_Rhino · · Score: 1
      Hey mods. Why is this a troll? Just because someone noted that the democrats are just as partisan and opportunistic as the republicans?

      Cough... Barney Frank... Cough

      It is just jolley politics in the good 'ol USA.

    3. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Arcane_Rhino · · Score: 1

      Doh. I fucked up with a misspelling of jolly.

      Oh. By the way. I trust the National Enquirer over Drudge. I will need some pretty good evidence that Foley was "set up" before I buy off on that one. Set-up, of course, meaning by another person. Foley set himself up a long time ago.

    4. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Moofie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, never mind that Foley actually did something despicable, and had it covered up by the House leadership. It's a political ploy!

      I love listening to Hastert say "The buck stops HERE. It's the DEMOCRATS' fault! I got all confused when they told me to be nice to homos."

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    5. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      You numerically deficient, dude? Barney Frank's situation involved a legal-age adult, Foley's ch*ckensh*t stuff is called pedophilia, dig?

      And as far as the news goes, RT(his)FA and please RT(his)FA.

    6. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Arcane_Rhino · · Score: 1

      Yeah sorry.

      I must have been thinking about Gerry Studds and the 17-year-old male page. Barney is the one whose lover ran the underage call-boy service out of Barney's house.

      Pedophilia? What, do you think Foley's victim was eight, 10 or 14?

      The fact that the pubs didn't remove this guy because he was one of their own is no surprise. That is what partisans do. But that does not negate the fact that this "sudden" insight by the crats that this type of behavior is "immoral and horrific" is political opportunism plain and simple.

      And that was my point. No one should be modded troll for pointing this out.

    7. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Barney is the one whose lover ran the underage call-boy service out of Barney's house.

      It's just like Bill O'Reilly's TV show putting (D) after Foley's name each time it is shown on screen. You people just lie and lie. It's like you can't move your lips without lying. I guess that is the real definition of Bushism.

      The best part -- if you can provide even one ounce of meaningful substantiation for your claim, do so. I would love to see this on the news. But, alas, no. You have no substantiation, because there is no substance to your false claims. There is only you, Hastert, and Foley, lying through your teeth while you do anything for power. Anything. Even send the young people of our nation to die in a war of choice on the other side of the planet.

      Keep on supporting Bush, keep on sending our young people to die, and have a great weekend!

    8. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But hey underage pages need love too!

    9. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called ephebophilia or pederasty actually. The age of consent is 16 in D.C. and lots of other states. Funny how none of the people outraged over this are upset over laws that make adults having actual sex with ***OMG teh children!!1*** legal.

    10. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pages are business subordinates to Congressmen. So, no, Republican Congressman have sex and sexually harassing pages is not legal. Oh my, they seemed to have stepped in it.

    11. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Waiting until the 2006 elections is a political ploy. Don't forget, people knew about this at least a YEAR ago. They did NOTHING.

      Not until RIGHT before the 2006 election.

      So, yes, it is the Democrats fault for potentially putting more pages at risk from a "known pedophile" in order to score maximum political points.

    12. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Pentavirate · · Score: 1

      Wow! My first troll moderation. I guess that's what happens when I point out the obvious to those who don't want to hear it. Show me where I was lying and being inflamatory just for the sake of being inflamatory. Everything I said was valid and my conclusions were logical. Could I be wrong? Possibly. Show me where and how. But hardly a troll. I guess it's easier to mod someone down who disagrees than make a decent rebuttal.

    13. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Pentavirate · · Score: 1

      Absolutely correct. He did something dispicable. He's resigned. He's under investigation. My only point was that you can't just take it at face value. Dems are taking advantage of a situation to try and expand it for political gain. Foley is slime and he was taken down. What would you have done in Hastert's spot without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight? It's really easy to hold people to an impractically high standard when it helps your own political view. I know I've certainly done it.

      I guess the really gaulling thing about this whole story is that it has nothing to do with any issues. Dems are basically using it to say, "See! All Republicans are nasty people!" but it has nothing to do with the arena of ideas which is where politics truly belongs.

    14. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "Dems are taking advantage of a situation to try and expand it for political gain"

      Uh, yeah, because the Republicans would never stoop so low, right?

      The Republicans are despicable. The Democrats are almost equally despicable. The only difference is, the Republicans are doing their level best to destroy the ideals of our nation, AND raise taxes (Or the deficit, which is the same thing with a lousy interest rate). The Democrats just want to raise taxes.

      Guess which is the lesser of two weevils.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    15. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by Pentavirate · · Score: 1

      Whether Republicans are destroying American ideals is up for debate. As for the deficit, the deficit is steadily declining and at a much faster rate than expected because of the tax cuts. The US govt has a much higher revenue than before tax cuts. The real problem is reigning in spending. I very much admit that reducing or controling spending is an area that the Republican leadership has completely fallen down on, even though most Republicans want spending reduced. Increased revenue + decreased spending is the only way to reduce the deficit and the debt and the best way we've seen to increase revenue is by cutting taxes. It's counter-intuitive but true. Our tax levels are high enough to cause a negative effect on the country's ability to make money. Reducing that negative effect will increase everyone's ability to make money and will increase the amount of money paid in taxes even if the percentage rate is lower. It happened in the 60s with Kennedy. It happened in the 80s with Reagan and it's happening now with Bush. The Republicans aren't doing things as well as they should but they are definitely the "lesser of two weevils".

    16. Re:Anyone else find it odd... by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1

      Deficit is worse than higher taxes. At least higher taxes don't affect the people who can't vote yet(or, at least, not as much--guess who's going to have to pay off the deficit?).

      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
  15. Natural Effects of Voter Quality by Syncerus · · Score: 1

    As long as it's easier to buy votes with volume than reason, debates of this nature will continue. When shouting loudest stops winning elections, the dialog will become more civil and the debates will be about issues rather than about men.

    Competency tests for voters and candidates would be a good start. Of course, SCOTUS decided that was illegal in the early '70s, so I suppose we'll just shout ourselves hoarse.

    --
    "Man is nothing without the works of man" -- Helvetius
  16. Intel is doomed. by Cybert4 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Will go the way of Digital (DEC). Ten years, max.

  17. Oh wow, I'm an idiot. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shame on me for not reading the article before commenting. I saw "Clinton scandal" and assumed it meant the Lewinsky scandal.

    Of course, the Lewinsky scandal would have been a better selection as an example of news breaking on the internet than the "Clinton Scandal" they selected, since in fact it turns out the "Clinton Scandal" the slashdot blurb referred to was... Clinton's interview on Fox News television several weeks ago?

    What the heck? That's a scandal? In what universe? I thought that was just Bill Clinton actually defending his record instead of rolling over when Fox News attacked him to his face, and Fox News running around whining for the next week about how mean Bill Clinton was to them. Even if it is a scandal, what in God's name does it have to do with the Internet? It's as the writer here (or at least the Slashdot submitter, since the writer's mention of Clinton was somewhat more complex than the summary makes it out to be) is trying to make what Bill Clinton did on Fox News a few weeks ago seem bad, by finding an excuse to put it in the same paragraph with George Allen's ethnic slurs and Mark Foley's sexual predation.

  18. Mod parent up! by khasim · · Score: 3, Insightful
    From TFA:
    Many of the first generation of new media platforms, including Limbaugh's show and Drudge's Web site, first flourished because of a conviction among conservatives that old media were unfair.

    Limbaugh runs a radio show. A RADIO show. People might want to look up "Tokyo Rose" from 60 years ago.

    The "change" isn't to a "new media".

    The real change is that the existing media (newspapers, TV and radio) have abandoned most of the investigative reporting.

    Now they just sit back and report on the "story" that website X is getting a lot of hits from a posting about a video clip about some politician you've never heard of.

    The "old media" is "reporting" on what the current buzz is. That's all.
    1. Re:Mod parent up! by Durandal64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem with investigate reporting in politics is that it might (gasp!) lead to a conclusion! The mainstream media hates offering conclusions. Just listen to the fucking slogans. "We report, you decide." "Fair and Balanced." "We're Spineless Pussies." (Okay I made that last one up.) The press' notion of "objectivity" is simply parroting whatever government officials tell them, maybe showing a response from the opposition party and not doing a god damn thing to find out whether or not the official statement was full of shit (which it usually is). Because the minute the news starts coming down on one side, they're apparently no longer unbiased.

      People seem to have forgotten that that it is perfectly possible to arrive at a conclusion favoring one side of an argument without any bias at all. Bias is not something you deduce by saying, "Whichever side this person supports is the side he's biased toward." Bias is affects the way you look at evidence and evaluate.

      But no, everyone except Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert and Keith Olbermann seems to have forgotten that there do not exist two equally-valid, logical sides to every argument, both sides of an argument do not always deserve equal consideration and in short, sometimes one side is just right, and the other is just wrong.

    2. Re:Mod parent up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Limbaugh runs a radio show. A RADIO show. People might want to look up "Tokyo Rose" from 60 years ago.

      and WTF is Air America ?? you losers will never learn. Rush changed the face of politics. And no matter how many millions Soros spends, it STILL will not change. Rush shined a light on the Liberal Left, and they hate every minute of it.

    3. Re:Mod parent up! by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 2, Funny

      *shakes fist* Curse you! Curse you! Lord Soros will hear about this! You will pay for such insolence.

    4. Re:Mod parent up! by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      The problem with the media is that they make judgments on viewpoints rather the facts, the opposite of how it should be. An example of the former would be the media's obsession with Al Gore's non-existant "fib factor" back in 2000. As for the latter, how many times do you see a reporter say "George Bush lied again today, when he said his NSA wiretapping is about listening in on suspected terrorists, as it was already legal under the FISA statute..."

    5. Re:Mod parent up! by faolan_devyn_aodfin · · Score: 1

      You know what is even more depressing is when some of the best newscasting is on Comedy Central and meant to be parody or satirical.

      --
      Pagan? Geek? Check out #paganism on Freenode IRC
  19. I wouldn't put it that way by rewt66 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's not that the Internet has become a deadly effective political weapon. It's that the Internet lets anyone who has enough time, skill, and motivation to find out the truth.

    Note well: By "tbe truth" I don't mean "the truth about someone's character", but rather "the truth about an event" or some such. That is, if someone said or did something, ever, in any context, there's probably someone who can find out about it on the net.

    So what's really going on is that the Internet has turned the truth about people's past actions and statements into a deadly effective political weapon.

    This is good and bad. It's bad because, as far as I can tell, it can only be used to destroy people. It's good because I think that the fewer politicians with enormous gaps between their public image and reality, the better.

  20. Just google... by posterlogo · · Score: 1

    ...the term "failure" and click "I'm feeling lucky". Funny as hell, but gotta admit another symptom of the web as political warfare tool.

  21. Not really. by khasim · · Score: 1
    We still have "investigative reporting" (e.g. Bob Woodward et al).

    Woodward was part of the Watergate coverage. That was over 30 years ago. The closest we have now is The Daily Show.

    My point is most average joes would not normally have the kind of clout with the press that a Woodward-type has, but scandals like the guard memos and such have elevated bloggers to the point where the major cable outlets regularly devote segments to "the blogosphere."

    And my point is that the "bloggers" have not ascended, but that what now passes for "investigative reporting" has declined to the point where it isn't any better than those "bloggers".

    My favorite crossover is when the beat reporters get into the blog game - even getting their blogs promoted by the major media outlets (as is the case with my local paper's website, philly.com). Some of the reporter blogs are extremely readable, providing better coverage where the regular constraints of daily publication are not applied.

    That is my point. The "old media" is not publishing/supporting the reporters any more. Instead, we get whatever they can find on some guy's website. Whether it is factual or not is not an issue.

    The issue is whether it is getting a lot of page hits. Popularity vs insight. And popularity is winning.
    1. Re:Not really. by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "Popularity vs insight. And popularity is winning."

      And you get insight from, where? TV news? Come on.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:Not really. by sgt_doom · · Score: 1
      And my point is that the "bloggers" have not ascended, but that what now passes for "investigative reporting" has declined to the point where it isn't any better than those "bloggers".

      Not necessarily...Sirota and Palast both have blog sites, as does various former intel guys (www.waynemadsenreport.com and www.noquarter.typepad.com, plus others....)

  22. Hello? Paging Mr. Harris... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This Harris guy from the Washington Post is a well-known wanker. He and another tool named Halperin have just written a book (it came out this week) with the 5-alarm EXTRA! EXTRA! bit of news that the Internet is now having a big effect in American politics.

    Harris and Halperin have been running around the big news shows saying that Drudge is "The New Walter Cronkite". Give me an effin' break. Drudge is the guy who's been saying that the real criminals in this Foley scandal are those demonic teenagers who "baited" Foley into asking them to measure their hogs and send him pictures. Excuse me, but no amount of "baiting" is going to get me to ask somebody to send me a picture of their apparatus. Most people I know aren't going to be "baited" into becoming sexual predators.

    So Harris and Halperin are saying that "Gee, the news media really is so liberal that the only answer is to make sure that every single story is as "fair" and "balanced" as possible. To them, this means that if you have Republicans taking millions of dollars from Jack Abramoff in order to change their votes on the floor of Congress, you also have to point out that Democrats took $184.35 from Abramoff's next door neighbor and pretend that their equal.

    Really, there comes a time when a government is so out of hand that the last thing you want is a news media that's trying its best not to offend anyone, while at the same time you've got douchebags like Hannity and Limbaugh telling people that "Liberals Must Die".

    Fact is, Harris and Halperin, as top representatives of a media structure that has failed to make a peep while an insane Administration is sending young Americans off to die in order to make the President and VP feel like they've got big dicks OUGHT to go down the tubes. They OUGHT to be ashamed of themselves, but not for being liberal, but for being stenographers in a period of American History when we sorely needed some voices of outrage.

    Oh, and "Sgt Doom"... if you think you're getting more "factual" news from Fox than you do from the New York times, you've really got to lay off huffing cleaning fluid. It's messing with you, dude.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  23. Clinton scandal? Huh? by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Informative

    he notes the connections between the recent scandals involving Mark Foley, George Allen, and Bill Clinton were representative of the new, web-driven age of American politics."

    What scandal? Oh, you mean this? "Former president Bill Clinton had a televised temper fit when an interviewer challenged his terrorism record."

    "Temper fit" is a "scandal"? The interviewer provoked it by repeating the Bush administration rhetoric that he was "weak" on terrorism. Given that Bush brushed aside reports with titles like "Al-Qaeda to attack US targets in the coming months" and Rice was REPEATEDLY warned about the threat Al-Qaeda represented and yet did nothing...yeah, I think Clinton has a right to be pretty pissed at mindless rhetoric.

    He raised his voice, came out of his chair a bit, and controlled the conversation long enough to cover the facts: a)yeah, he missed Bin Laden and he regrets it but b)he did more than Bush ever did.

    Bush and his staff ignored patently obvious and repetitive evidence of an impending terrorist attack, declared Bin Laden his number one target and then a year later, suddenly told everyone it really wasn't actually all THAT important to get Bin Laden. Who, I might remind everyone, is still alive five years after "that fateful day".

    Bush has had a trillion dollars, two military campaigns, a dozen or more grossly unconsitutional laws/acts and five years to fix things, and the only thing he's done is paint a giant target on the US by acting like a treaty-ripping baffoon on the stage of world politics and invading sovereign nations where there is a substantial number of people who belong to a religion which spawns aggressive, violent groups at the drop of a hat. Just you watch- he's about to do it again in a few months when North Korea goes "nuclear", and we'll be lucky if it doesn't destabilize the whole region by dragging China, Japan, and of course South Korea...then Malaysia, New Zealand, Australia...and all their corresponding allies (Britain, France, Australia, etc)- into World War 3.

    1. Re:Clinton scandal? Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hind-sight is 20/20.

      Give the 9/11 crap a rest. Clinton didn't leave any useful information, and if Gore was in office, the 9/11 attacks would have continued just the same.

      AFTER the attacks we can connect the dots. But before 9/11, there was no plan left, there was no useful information left. The memo everyone refers to is along the lines of "Slashdot determined to win against Digg" - something everyone already knows, but with no indications of HOW.

      Some things are just unavoidable, no matter how well prepared. The 9/11 attacks are one example.

      Don't forget that Bill Clinton had several opportunities to capture or kill Bin Laden - he declined to do so, because he thought it would look bad politically.

    2. Re:Clinton scandal? Huh? by grcumb · · Score: 3, Insightful
      What scandal? Oh, you mean this? "Former president Bill Clinton had a televised temper fit when an interviewer challenged his terrorism record."

      Yep, it's that balance thing again. You see, if someone points out that all the recent scandals pertain to Republicans, someone's bound to come out complaining about 'bashing' and how the Dems seem to get a free ride from the 'Liberal' media.

      No need to consider the real reasons why all the scandals these days are Republican scandals. I mean, no one really wants to admit that when one party takes advantage of the other's incompetence and timidity and runs roughshod over it in the elections, that party tends to pretty much do as it likes in office. And it gets away with bloody murder unless the opposition and the media finally grow a pair and start asking questions, which they don't. Years pass and the incumbents have started taking their privileged place at the trough for granted, which make them lazy and careless. This carelessness leads to some really stupid scandals, which finally tip the balance and let the other party take its place at the trough and complete the cycle.

      Nobody wants to talk about that, because if the citizens of a nation were to come to believe this, they'd probably have to revolt. And nobody wants that, the citizens included.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    3. Re:Clinton scandal? Huh? by Stalyn · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that Bill Clinton had several opportunities to capture or kill Bin Laden - he declined to do so, because he thought it would look bad politically.

      No he didn't. Read the 911 commission report. There was one possible attempt in 1999 but was called off over intelligence disputes.

      --
      The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    4. Re:Clinton scandal? Huh? by Stalyn · · Score: 1

      Damn I pressed the submit button by mistake. Specifically I was talking about May 1999 in Kandahar, you can read that specific part, here, it's near the bottom of the page.

      --
      The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
    5. Re:Clinton scandal? Huh? by doom · · Score: 1
      Why hello Anonymous, nice to hear from you again.
      Hind-sight is 20/20.

      Maybe yours is, I'm still trying to figure out what happened in the last decade.

      Give the 9/11 crap a rest.
      I wish.

      Clinton didn't leave any useful information, and if Gore was in office, the 9/11 attacks would have continued just the same.
      Well, maybe Clinton didn't, but even if he had, Bush would've ignored it anyway, so it's all his fault.

      Two can play the counter-factual accusation game.

      AFTER the attacks we can connect the dots. But before 9/11, there was no plan left, there was no useful information left.
      Oh yeah? Says who?

      Some things are just unavoidable, no matter how well prepared. The 9/11 attacks are one example.
      Really? Then why did ABC try to blame them on Clinton? That's where the whole spat started, remember.

      Don't forget that Bill Clinton had several opportunities to capture or kill Bin Laden
      You'll have to remind me when those were, I must've been watching "A Team" reruns.

      he declined to do so, because he thought it would look bad politically.
      Well, it would've been nice if he'd refrained from doing it because civilized countries don't engage in assassination, but that quaint little principle went out the window even faster than the Geneva Convention.
    6. Re:Clinton scandal? Huh? by Arcane_Rhino · · Score: 2, Insightful

      To the contrary. Bill Clinton did miss several opportunities and was "weak" on terrorism in the same way that Bush 1, Regan, and, need it even be said, Carter were.

      Terrorism wasn't real for the US until the Towers came down, plain and simple.

      I don't like Clinton (and hate to give his supporters any rational defense) but the fact of the matter is that had he killed Osama, we can expect that we would have had the usual reaction of the fanatical faction of the Muslims. So although it may have prevented the Towers, that or any similar action by the terrorists would have been laid squarely at his feet ad nauseum. Furthermore, such a strike might have lost him the "lets give peace a chance" crowd who don't want to believe there is any threat even after the Towers.

      Ultimately, there was no political will on either side of the aisle to remove the terrorist threat. (I am not sure there really is now, but I digress...) At risk of sounding like a New Ager, the collective consciousness of the Islamic threat (calm down I only mean those who would do the West harm, not every Muslim) just wasn't there. It would have been political suicide for him to have removed the Osama threat, so he didn't.

      God, I feel sullied.

    7. Re:Clinton scandal? Huh? by onemorechip · · Score: 1
      if Gore was in office, the 9/11 attacks would have continued just the same


      I see your hypothetical and raise you this counter-hypothetical: If Gore were in office in 2001, the 9/11 attacks would have been thwarted. That's because Gore would not have been preoccupied with Iraq, as Bush was in 2001.

      --
      But, I wanted socialized health insurance!
    8. Re:Clinton scandal? Huh? by Scudsucker · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Bill Clinton did miss several opportunities

      When. And there's a difference between not being omniscient and ignoring reports plopped on your desk telling you that terrorists are determined to strike in the U.S., soon, and that they might use planes to do so.

      was "weak" on terrorism in the same way that Bush 1, Regan, and, need it even be said, Carter were.

      How so. Clinton was the first to bomb Al Qaeda, and the first to have a standing capture or kill order on Osama.

      Ultimately, there was no political will on either side of the aisle to remove the terrorist threat.

      It's not a matter of will, it's a matter of being impossible. We will ALWAYS have a problem with terrorism, just as we will ALWAYS have illegal drug use. This is why the "war on terror" is as asinine and will be as successful as the "war on drugs". What we need to do is go back to the simple policy that was talked about shortly after 911: we wont differentiate between terrorist organizations and the governments that shelter them. This was working great in Afganistan, until Bush let his obession with Saddam get the better of him, a cluster fuck that will probably claim more American lives than Osama did five years ago.

    9. Re:Clinton scandal? Huh? by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      Clinton also ignored the impending threast as well. He was too busy getting it on with an intern to care.

  24. politics as ususal by hswerdfe · · Score: 1
    and the aim of candidates and their operatives is not so much to win an argument as to brand opponents as fundamentally unfit."


    How is This diffrent then before? It always been easier to Say "look they are scary", then to present your own Ideas.
    Its a fundimental problem with the current 2 party system. With more candidates it becomes harder to do this, you don't look Nearly as good if you are tring to bash 5 diffrent people as if you are tring to bash 1.
    --
    --meh--
    1. Re:politics as ususal by ClamIAm · · Score: 1

      If America suddenly had lots of viable political parties or disbanded all parties and then we had 5 candidates in every race, it would not eliminate mudslinging. It would simply require more calculated attacks from the campaigns and parties. Right now, the two major parties generally just target someone in the other.

  25. Not just a political Weapon... by nschubach · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The web has turned into the biggest gossip spreading rumor mill in history... Oprah would be proud.

    --
    Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    1. Re:Not just a political Weapon... by Vexorian · · Score: 1

      I think Oprah would be jealous ...

      --

      Copyright infringement is "piracy" in the same way DRM is "consumer rape"
  26. Echo Chamber by grassy_knoll · · Score: 1
    From TFA:
    Rove said he has benefited on occasion from the new-media echo chamber. When he gave a speech last year saying liberals want to give terrorists understanding and therapy, he delighted when Democrats howled in protest. This guaranteed that the story would stay alive for days. "I was sort of amused by it because it struck me, well, they're just simply repeating my argument, which was good," he said.


    So it seems one difference in this new media is the ability to quickly gauge the reaction of the public.

    No need to wait for polling data; throw something out there and see if people react the way you want. If not, adjust message, lather, rinse, repeat.

  27. Re:Hello? Paging Mr. Harris... by sgt_doom · · Score: 2, Interesting
    PopeRatzo, I think you've got me mixed up with someone else -- I've never watched Fox News in my life - nor would I ever, ever recommend that total crapola network. I said I received more factual news from reading blogs and web sites than I ever do reading any American newspapers or American TV news. (And I am in full agreement with your outstanding post.)

    Cases in point: (1) On an Italian site many months ago we first learned that Accenture had been contracted to bring in rigged voting machines for the Italian elections by former - and ousted president - Berlisconi. Their exit polls showed Berlisconi losing by 1 million votes - while the rigged count displayed only 25,000 votes. Either way - he lost - but we now realize Accenture's activity in the matter. (2) Foreign news reports stating that some British SAS (their special ops organization) refused to return to Iraq to fight beside the American forces as they strongly disagreed with the American strategy and behavior over there. No where did these stories appear in the popular, MSM American news....

  28. False equivalence at work, again by admiralh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We see yet again another example of the so-called "non-biased" media equating a pedophile (Foley) and a racist (Allen), both Republicans, with a former president upset about being misrepresented in a movie purporting to be based on real events, when it was based on what the right-wing wanted you to believe were the real events.

    In this case, the Clinton scandal was really the Clinton-haters lying (yet again). But that's beside the point.

    What this is is the typical example of balance

    1. Show a major Republican gaffe
    2. Show a minor Democratic gaffe
    3. Claim that both parties are guilty, so neither has the moral high ground.
    4. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

    --
    Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.
    1. Re:False equivalence at work, again by TubeSteak · · Score: 1
      4. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
      Only if you use a loofah to scrub my back.

      (If you don't get the joke, search google for loofah)
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:False equivalence at work, again by admiralh · · Score: 1

      Don't you mean a falafel?

      --
      Hopelessly pedantic since 1963.
    3. Re:False equivalence at work, again by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Be careful with your terminology there. Foley may be a major sexual harasser, and may have used his position and age to make unwanted sexual advances against under-age (and that's questionable) people, but his victims were, so far, all over 16. It seems improbable we're looking at advances against under 12s (or whatever cut-off is reasonable in terms of defining people as children as opposed to young adults.)

      I agree his actions aren't comparable with Clinton's, but that's because Clinton, for all his faults, was involved in an entirely consensual relationship with a reciprocating woman who knew enough about her circumstances to make sane judgements. Foley, on the other hand, pushed unwanted advances on people who clearly didn't like it, and almost certainly weren't experienced enough to know what to do in the situation.

      Pedophilia? Not in the slightest. A sexual harasser and all round asshole? You bet.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:False equivalence at work, again by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why was Clinton so weak against terror? Why did he leave Bush a nation that was unprepared for an "inevitable" attack 8 months into his successor's term?

      He didn't answer. He blew up at the interviewer instead.

      Clinton wasn't weak on terror. Clinton's government actually prevented at least one 9/11 attack from happening on American soil, the attack on LAX on New Year's Eve, 1999.

      Clinton didn't leave Bush a nation "unprepared" for an inevitable attack. Bush's first actions on taking over were to dismantle Clinton's anti-terror operation. That's well documented.

      Why are you lying?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:False equivalence at work, again by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      consenual? Ask CHandra Levy's parents's what happens when you dislike what's going on.

    6. Re:False equivalence at work, again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF does Clinton have to do with Chandra Levy?

    7. Re:False equivalence at work, again by DoctorFrog · · Score: 1

      Why are you lying?

      Because (s)he's trolling, and/or part of the 'backwash'.

    8. Re:False equivalence at work, again by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      if I have to explain it. Just nevermind.

  29. The web is awesome by shawngarringer · · Score: 1

    Yes, before the web, I couldn't post a link ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAUxkJP4k20 ) where the Republicans call a local canidate a Commie.

    Damn the web is great!

    1. Re:The web is awesome by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      and what is wrong with being a commie?

    2. Re:The web is awesome by shawngarringer · · Score: 1

      Nothing. And in fact, in this day and age, it seems a bit out of place. We've come to learn that communists are not evil!

  30. Obligatory Quote by Chris+Acheson · · Score: 1

    "Under democracy, one party always devotes its chief energies to trying to prove that the other party is unfit to rule and both commonly succeed, and are right."
    --H.L. Mencken

  31. This is Totally Amazing! by photomonkey · · Score: 1

    It's almost as if the Internet is a part of real life!

    Even Washington is beginning to at least see, if not accept that fact.

    --
    Message contains 1 attachment: spam.gif
  32. Web removes the power of news editors by BearRanger · · Score: 1

    I think we're witnessing, for lack of a better term, the democratization of the news. Under the old model the editor (and by extension the publisher) is able to control what gets printed or broadcast. If there's a bias on the editors' part it's easy to spin the facts. Little stories sometimes lead to larger ones, but only if the people who make the story assignments agree to print or show them.

    The web also removes regional biases by giving us access to news and opinions from other parts of the country and other parts of the world. My local editors might be biased, or have a set of biases that don't agree with mine. It's now a lot easier to find people who agree with my point of view, as well as see what's important in other regions.

    To paraphrase Slashdot: News for everyone. Stuff that matters.

  33. What planet are you from? by Tony · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, you're an anonymous coward, so I can't call you a gullible idiot to your face, but you are.

    He did refute the facts. He blew up at the interviewer after the interviewer pestered him for a few minutes. It was almost as if the interviewer *wanted* him to fly off the handle. Hell, the interviewer would hardly let him get a word in edgewise.

    And for your information: according to Richard Clarke (Clinton's "Terrorist Czar") and other members of the Clinton cabinet, Clinton had set up a substantial, feasible anti-terrorist plan specifically targeted to al Queda. That was one of the first things that the new President Bush dismantled, not long before he sent $42,000,000 to the Taliban. Clinton did *not* allow the nation to be attacked. If anyone did, it would be Bush, having ignored a fairly specific document titled something along the lines of, "Al Queda determined to attack on US soil," which circulated a few weeks before the attacks.

    As far as Foley sending messages that were in poor taste, those messages could be used to prosecute him for sexual misconduct if he weren't in a position of power; the fact they were directed to 15 year-old boys kind of indicates he likes 'em young.

    Draw your own conclusions.

    --
    Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
    1. Re:What planet are you from? by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "Clinton did *not* allow the nation to be attacked."

      OK, who was President the first time the WTC got bombed?

      I agree with your overall point, but I think you need to be a little more careful with your rhetoric. As a matter of fact, one could argue that Clinton was in much the same position as Bush II, although certainly with less time on the job.

      I do not know what plans Bush I might have left for Clinton, but Clinton was in the seat where the buck stops.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    2. Re:What planet are you from? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      In other words, according to Clinton, Clinton did no wrong.

      Gee. I wonder why I might possibly doubt Clinton when Clinton says he didn't cause 9/11.

      Facts are facts. Clinton had the opportunity to take down Bin Laden. He refused.

      The Foley thing is mostly a Democrat fabrication. Yes, he sent some emails in poor taste, but never to any minors. The pedophile thing exists only in the minds of Democrats.

      Stop being tricked by the liberal media. Do some actual research.

    3. Re:What planet are you from? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The terrorist actors who died on 9/11 caused 9/11. George Bush was president on that day. He had been president for over half a year before this attack occurred. More than 30 days before 9/11, George received a personal briefing known as a Presidential Daily Briefing (PDB) on National Security. This briefing was entitled, "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US." The public records shows that George Bush took no executive action based on this information. So far as his job as president is concerned, George Bush ignored the specific threat laid out to him in plain English. George Bush continued on his vacation (he has taken more vacation than any other president in history) and 30+ days later Bin Ladin did in fact Strike in the US. Thanks, Bush, for letting us know this attack was impending. Thanks for notifying the public.

      Anyways, facts are facts. Clinton actually attempted to take out Bin Ladin. He was accused by Republicans of trying to "wag the dog" when he did this. Clinton came up with a comprehensive anti-terrorism plan before Bin Ladin successfully terrorized the United States with a massive attack under Bush. Bush dismantled this plan on day 1 of his presidency.

      Thanks, Republicans, for giving us 9/11. Your choice to ignore the specific threat by your president makes it so we will never know if 9/11 could have been avoided. You did not even try, Bush. You did not even try.

      And that, in a nutshell, is what modern Republicanism is: denying responsibility, ignoring obligations, vacationing on the taxpayers dollar, and then lying, lying, and more lying, about things that matter, like sexual predation on children (U.S. law defines adulthood to begin at age 18 -- if you want to use a different definition, please don't commit the lie of omission) or rationales for going to war with a country that did not attack us.

    4. Re:What planet are you from? by Scudsucker · · Score: 1

      Facts are facts. Clinton had the opportunity to take down Bin Laden. He refused.

      That's not a fact, that's a lie. Clinton was the first to bomb Al Qaeda, and the first to have a standing capture or kill order on Osama.

      The Foley thing is mostly a Democrat fabrication. Yes, he sent some emails in poor taste, but never to any minors. The pedophile thing exists only in the minds of Democrats.

      More lies. 16 year olds are minors, and the first calls for Hasert to resign came from Republicans.

      Stop being tricked by the liberal media. Do some actual research.

      There is "liberal bias" in the media and never has been. Stop lying, and stop being a bitch for the corrupt GOP. Unless you want the Democrats to win, that is.

  34. Fundamentally unfit by Richard+Frost · · Score: 1

    "...the aim of candidates and their operatives is not so much to win an argument as to brand opponents as fundamentally unfit."

    Congratulations! You're all winners!

  35. Subverting the New Media by doom · · Score: 1
    What I'm interested in at the moment is the ways in which the same old propaganda machine(s) are trying to control the new internet media.

    For example, with slashdot, it looks to me like there's a bunch postings originating from what I think of as "the rover boys": hired-gun Republican sock-puppets that come out of the woodwork when a subject like election fraud is under discussion.

    (I think these are usually distinguishable from real human beings that happen to be conservative, though this is obviously always a judgement call).

    One of the things that I think is funny is that they often have surprisingly low slashdot ids... which leaves only two choices: (1) a bunch of the old guard computer nerds (who stereotypically I'd expect to be libertarian or liberal) have suddenly become a particuarly low-brow kind of conservative; (2) the rover boys have some way of stealing slashdot accounts, and they've snagged some of the ones that were created early and then abandoned.

    Obviously, I favor hypothesis (2), which raises the question of how exactly they did it. Running crack on slash accounts would presumably be a tricky business, because obviously the slashdot uber-geeks would be watching out for such an obvious attack. (Right?) Network sniffing would presumably be too slow a way to go about it, because by definition you'd only sniff passwords from active accounts, and then you'd have to wait for them to become inactive (well... unless you went around assasinating people for their slash accounts. But that's getting a little too paranoid, even for me).

    So what do you think? Would slashdot be crackable by the sufficiently motivated?

    Or course, one possibility would be that slashdot itself has been infiltrated: they could've planted someone on the staff in order to get database access. (Or possibly resorted to bribery?)

    1. Re:Subverting the New Media by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      Like it says at the bottom of a big page of information when I click on your name: "Subscribers can view entire comment history for all users"
      It doesn't appear all that hard to manually look for users with inactive histories. A good chunk of Friend and Foe listings for low numbered users are likely to be for other low numbered users, making it easy to look for whole blocks of possible inactives.
            With ID and Nym generally linked, it's pretty easy to tell who else is a low numbered user, check on their activity, and get a preliminary list. Then it's likely some of those accounts will have easy to guess dictionary form passwords. User logs and what threads the user commented in may show areas of interest to make password guessing more feasable.
            I have no idea whether it has actually happened. I find it likely that early members were somewhat more oriented to the political extremes than now, but that's more likely to include some who were extreme right wingsers than a mix of only moderates and traditional and non-traditional left only. Your 'rover boys' could be uber-geeks and 'low brow' republicans, the two aren't as exclusive as you may think.
            After I get through with this speculative answer though, I'm running a few searches. First terms will be "Looking to purchase" and "low numbered slashdot accounts", with refinements from there. If your obviously crackpot idea has even a smidgen of anything to it, that just might reveal something. Not that I believe you in the slightest - next you'll be claiming Faux News isn't fair and unbiased, but just to show how unlikely it all is, I'd look at good old fashioned social engineering like this before assuming cracking.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    2. Re:Subverting the New Media by StopKoolaidPoliticsT · · Score: 1

      I am one of your "rover boys" with a low 5 digit account. Odd that I'm implied to be an arm of Karl Rove and that he's the lone political operator in the US. You do realize that the left has their own Roves like James Carville, right?.

      What exactly has me worked up lately, causing me to troll slashdot? I come to slashdot primarily for techology and other nerdly stuff primarily. I expect a little politics to be thrown into some things because they overlap and it is acceptable in moderation. However, ever since Al Gore lost the 2000 election, every story about electronic voting (and a LOT of stories not about it) has the people who can't stand that Gore lost posting that Bush stole the election. These posts and their variations inevitably get modded to +4 or +5. I don't come here for regurgitated DU or moveon comments. If I want to see such things, I will go to those sites.

      As time went on, more and more stories became infected with politics so Slashdot opened up a section for political stories. Creating that section made Slashdot even about politics and polarized the factions of users here. No longer was it about a place to go get tech news, it was a place where people could go off on their little conspiracy theories, anti bush rants, etc. Those comments were eagerly moderated up and many well written, well thought out posts who disagreed were moderated down as troll, flamebait, etc. The more political Slashdot became, the more certain dogma was accepted as fact and the less dissent was tolerated. At best, someone who disagreed with the dogma wouldn't be moderated but their voices would be drowned out by various sheep of the leftist causes, be it global warming, what to do with people in gitmo, a conspiracy to take down the WTC that would have taken hundreds or thousands of people to orchestrate, etc. Most of it is blatently unfactual if you look passed the dogma and for as critical and intelligent slashdotters consider themselves to be, they just can't see the truth.

      At this point, Slashdot seems to mostly post stories which continue to favor these people, sometimes going out of their way to frame the argument before it can be discussed. Hiring new editor Keith Dawson (kdawson) seems to be primarily to do that. Frankly, I'm sick of it all and I want the old slashdot back. As it is, the entire site has turned into that which many (most?) of us once despised, a giant Jon Katz troll.

      If Slashdot wants honest political debate and to not simply become Dailykos with more tech, everyone needs to step back on the political stories. Don't post crap like I saw a few minutes ago about how Limbaugh and Hannity literally want liberals to die. Don't blame everything on Rove, Bush, Cheney, et al. Stop painting all republicans with the Mark Foley brush unless you want things to degenerate even more. As the website says, "move on" from the past elections, you can't change them. Learn from them and find a way to make a better system but back it up with hard facts and not soft sciences and conspiracy hypotheses.

      In short, the trolling, flame baiting, ad hominems, etc neeed to not only stop, but stop being moderated up. Open up your minds enough that you're willing to ask yourself why you believe what you believe and if there is something that you should change about it to make it more correct. Be as critical of your own ideas as you are of others. Slashdot editors need to stop posting stories that are obvious trolls.

      To those who say that this is news for nerds and stuff that matters, yes... politics matter. However, is slashdot a site about technology, first and foremost, or just another DU echo chamber?

      --
      Stop Koolaid Politics
    3. Re:Subverting the New Media by StopKoolaidPoliticsT · · Score: 1

      As a side note, I just stopped over at Kuro5hin to see what they were up to. I left that site, oh, 4 or 5 years ago maybe, because of the same thing that is happening to slashdot now. K5 appears to be a ghost town these days. If that's what everyone wants Slashdot to become, keep splitting us down the middle on politics. VI and Emacs, GNOME and KDE, Apple vs PC, etc are just the tools we use, politics (and religion) are who we are and how we define ourselves.

      --
      Stop Koolaid Politics
    4. Re:Subverting the New Media by doom · · Score: 1
      Artifakt (700173) wrote:
      Like it says at the bottom of a big page of information when I click on your name: "Subscribers can view entire comment history for all users"

      It doesn't appear all that hard to manually look for users with inactive histories.
      Good point. But then, you're talking about looking at comment histories, and there are many people who read slashdot but don't bother to post. There's no "last login was" message in the user info page.

      A good chunk of Friend and Foe listings for low numbered users are likely to be for other low numbered users, making it easy to look for whole blocks of possible inactives.
      Hm. I didn't realize it was difficult to look up someone by number, but I guess it is. The "Search" feature doesn't give you a way to do it.

      In any case, the "Friend and Foe" feature is relatively new, so you won't get a lot of links to inactive accounts that way.

      Then it's likely some of those accounts will have easy to guess dictionary form passwords.
      Correct, but then running a dictionary on an account name should set off alarms at slashdot. You're not suggesting that our Slash Masters could have over-looked such an obvious move, are you?

      User logs and what threads the user commented in may show areas of interest to make password guessing more feasable.
      Um.... I know what you're talking about, but I think you're reaching. They don't just need access to one or two accounts, they need at least a few dozen they can use in a semi-disposable way.

      I have no idea whether it has actually happened.
      If you like, you can take a look at this story: Was the 2004 Election Stolen? In particular, look at the comments from these guys:
      • Chacham (981)
      • porkchop_d_clown (39923)
      They both engage in peculiarly stupid non sequitor attacks... they don't hold up to even a few minutes scrutiny, but they might give you the superficial feeling that someone out there has an objection.

      I find it likely that early members were somewhat more oriented to the political extremes than now, but that's more likely to include some who were extreme right wingsers [...] Your 'rover boys' could be uber-geeks and 'low brow' republicans, the two aren't as exclusive as you may think.
      I don't think you get what I mean when I say "low brow". I mean someone who has trouble coming up with any sort of argument... in other words, they're either really dumb, or just faking it.

      After I get through with this speculative answer though, I'm running a few searches. First terms will be "Looking to purchase" and "low numbered slashdot accounts", with refinements from there. [...] I'd look at good old fashioned social engineering like this before assuming cracking.
      Well sure, I've heard of at least one three-digit account that got sold on ebay. But how many accounts do you think you could come up with that way?

      (In any case, don't go too crazy on the paranoia on this one: the standard advice on dealing with agent provacateurs is to just take them at face value... the only thing worse than a bunch of provacateurs is holding witch hunts for provacateurs.)

  36. In other news, by dangitman · · Score: 1
    Water is wet, and Republicans are evil.

    Do we really need to state the obvious? In politics, people use whatever tools are at their disposal. Technology has always been one of those tools, whether it be the harvesting machine, the motor car, the television, or space craft.

    --
    ... and then they built the supercollider.
  37. Re:Hello? Paging Mr. Harris... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Hannity and Limbaugh telling people that "Liberals Must Die".

    Have you ever listened to Hannity or Limbaugh? Can you cite a single reference of either saying "Liberals Must Die?" You do realize that the little quotation marks mean it's an exact quote and not you just paraphrasing, right?

    I have an idea... how about you stop just regurgitating what other people have told you to think, listen to a variety of news outlets yourself (hint: The Daily Show, DU and Randi Rhodes isn't a variety of news) and use the thing between your ears for more than just reciting propaganda. When you say stuff like that, you completely discredit yourself and thus any points you make.

    --
    Stop Koolaid Politics Troll

  38. Re: by dogod · · Score: 1

    ditto

  39. Ukrainian experience by Zx-man · · Score: 1

    I am Ukrainian and live in Kyiv. Back in 2004 we had presidential elections ending almost in a tie for two candidates. There was evidence for falsifications made by goverment in favor of their political successor. Due to the high level of state influence on the media, Internet became the first tribune for the opposition. It helped to encourage the mainstream media not to obey censorship, with information spread leading to public protests which resulted in a revolution. You cannot overestimate role of the Internet in politics. (The whole story is here.)

  40. As Seen On the Web by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Can someone show me where "Mark Foley, George Allen, and Bill Clinton" or their supporters attacked their accusers solely on their motivations?
    OK, Foley and Allen, but not Clinton.

    How about where "Mark Foley, George Allen, and Bill Clinton" were attacked by their accusers solely on their motivations?
    OK, Clinton but not Foley and Allen.

    And how about showing me some distinction between Web vs TV criticism, more or less attacking solely motivations?
    Right - about the same for both. Though Web criticism, even faster paced than TV (without a rigid broadcast schedule and filler commercials), does happen sooner. Especially because more of the process from the originators can be seen on the Web, rather than just the eventual "final product" on TV.

    Looked at without the Republican corporate mass media agenda to confuse the issues, the actual trend is clear. Republicans attack messengers because the negative messages are usually true. And the Web is faster and more "raw" than TV, so those attacks start there.

    The election of people unfit to lead is left as an exercise to the reader.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:As Seen On the Web by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      Moderation -1
          100% Flamebait

      I point out the simple logical fallacy in the article that hides Republican "kill the messenger" tricks, which fallacy slimes a popular 2-term US president, and my post is "Flamebait"?

      Republican TrollMods have gotten so addicted to power that they can't stand seeing it crack in front of their faces.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

    2. Re:As Seen On the Web by WilliamSChips · · Score: 1
      Republican TrollMods have gotten so addicted to power that they can't stand seeing it crack in front of their faces.
      I doubt they even read your posts.
      --
      Please, for the good of Humanity, vote Obama.
    3. Re:As Seen On the Web by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 1

      It would be interesting to see "the other side of the screen", the actual scenes that unfold when I post something that gets trollMod'ed down. Do they coordinate? Are they spontaneous? Do they read the posts? Ever click the links? Just see my userID and burn some modpoints? Are they angry? Sad? Happy?

      Actually, "interesting" only in the aggregate, in a sociological way. Like gnats hitting the windshield. Engaging wiper fluid...

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  41. Re:Hello? Paging Mr. Harris... by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

    Since you mentioned that evil, "Fox News," you may be interested in a case where a legal case the judge found in favor of Fox for lying - stating that it was OK for Fox to lie publicly. Truly representative of how abysmal this sorry country has become.

  42. Not a good example by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

    Brin and Sergey are well known Liberals.

  43. Why I hate Digg by sanman2 · · Score: 1

    Sorry to criticize that other site, but the thing is that when it started out, I really used to love it, and abandoned Slashdot for it wholeheartedly. But now I've had to feel back here, because every second article on Digg is just some user-submitted attack on Bush. Hey, I'm critical of Bush too, but does this topic have to be featured in every second or third story submission there? Can they find a broader range of topics, please? It's getting really stagnant.

    1. Re:Why I hate Digg by Korvar · · Score: 1

      And the other half is some user-submitted attack on "Liberals". It's weird - you can get two threads next to each other, one with Right-Wingers moaning how the evil Lefties will no doubt digg them down, and the other has Left-Wingers moaning about the Righties down-digging *then*.

      --
      Korvar the Fox!! www.korvar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk