Teens Don't Buy Legit MP3s Because They Can't?

iSeal writes "According to a recent study, 13-17 year olds are both the most likely to pirate music, and also the most likely to own a portable MP3 player. Yet, as this article goes on to say, the lack of credit card ownership prevents teens from buying music online. The author maintains that since regular record shops don't sell MP3s, or gift cards to places that do sell MP3s, its practically impossible for teens to buy legit MP3s on their own. From the article: 'If the only way to obtain music online continues to be through illegitimate means, then we are no better off than in the days of Napster.'" I'm not sure I agree with some of the conclusions here (you can buy iTunes cards at Walgreens), but it's an interesting discussion.

Comments

well then

[macadamia_harold]

Yet, as this article goes on to say, the lack of credit card ownership prevents teens from buying music online.

Clearly, the only solution is for the RIAA to start providing teenagers with credit cards. That can't possibly go wrong.

Re:well then

[MassEnergySpaceTime]

Even if teenagers had credit cards, I think teenagers would still more likely opt to illegally download mp3s just because it's "illegal", therefore it's cool to do so.

Re:well then

[Mike89]

That's not at all the reason why. The reason (at least for me) for getting MP3s 'illegally' is because I have such a varying taste of music and munch through it so quickly, it's not economically viable for me to buy the amount of albums I actually download just to try out an artist. I'll download an artists discography and randomly insert their tracks into my regular playlist, usually as I go to sleep. If a track wins my attention, I'll remember it and it'll become part of my regular listening. However, most bands cannot capture me with more than a couple of songs. For the bands who do, I don't want to buy low-quality DRM ridden MP3s via some crappy software. 3 bands have managed to "Woo" me enough for me to spend money on them, so I go to CDUniverse and use my Paypal account (doesn't require credit card) to get their albums (or DVDs) posted to me. One local band (The Living End) has managed to get me as a fan, and I've bought all their releases bar one since I started liking them. I downloaded the one I didnt buy (illegally), and didnt like that much of it. But, I've gone 2 of their concerts based around that release, so theyve more than made their money back off what I "deprived" them of by downloading it. I bought their live version of the same album because I like the songs live. So, no, we don't download illegally just because it's cool.

Re:well then

[hackstraw]

Even if teenagers had credit cards, I think teenagers would still more likely opt to illegally download mp3s just because it's "illegal", therefore it's cool to do so.

In the US, I have noticed a trend since the 60s and 70s to make more "normal" things illegal, and it makes the tension between the system and the government and the people very high. Abraham Lincoln said it best:

"Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes crimes out of things
that are not crimes. A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."

Which was then followed up by HS Thompson:

"In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity."

So much is illegal, but its not "that illegal", and that is crap. In societies where sex, alcohol, and drugs don't have these insane and intense laws and taboos against them, they do less of them than here. In societies where pornography and nudity are more tolerated, they have much less rape, child abuse, and teenage pregnancies than we do. In societies where drugs are legal, they do less of them than we do. And the legal consequences keep getting more severe here.

Back to MP3s, I think its completely stupid that after 10 years of them being around that its still basically illegal to get them. I just got an iPod, and nobody told me that I couldn't just put MP3s on it. What Apple did, was pretty slick to appease the record business, but its a PITA that I have to go through hoops to put my legal MP3s on it from multiple computers. Honestly, if I knew this from the beginning I wouldn't have bought it. I will never buy "legal" MP3s from "legit" sources, because my freedoms will be limited even more. Instead, my plan for new music is to buy used CDs, rip them, and sell them back. And even that takes a bunch of silly effort. I have so much music, and its a pain to manage it between my home, my car, and work, and elsewhere.

Re:well then

[ZorinLynx]

This only happens if you configure your iPod to let iTunes manage it completely. It'll also ask before it wipes out anything on the iPod.

If you set the iPod to manually manage music, you can use it on as many computers as you wish without a problem. Heck, you can even copy DRMed iTunes tracks from a number of different authorized machines to it, and it'll play them all without a problem.

Please, stop circulating FUD just because you don't know how to use the software. :)

-Z

DRM

[BerkeleyDude]

I don't buy MP3s because there's no freaking way to just buy the files - not stream them, not download DRMed crap, but just buy the plain old MP3s.

Rhapsody? iTunes? Can't do that.

Only independent websites (e.g. magnatune.com) have the decency to give you something worth paying money for.

Re:DRM

[bartron]

because there's no freaking way to just buy the files
Where I buy all of my mp3's from I can do jsut that....DRM free ;)
Bartron

More productive research

[Seiruu]

IMO, much more interesting to know is who

1. Wouldn't buy them anyway if they couldn't have gotten them through illegal means (IMO the majority)
   
2. Would buy them anyway after getting them through illegal means (somewhat split with the third option)
   
3. Wouldn't buy them after getting them through illegal means
   

Debit Cards

[jjeffrey]

OK Credit Cards aren't available to under 18's but in the UK at least you can get a debit card from as young as 13 - a lot of kids have them and they work on iTunes here.

Not the same in the US?

Re:Debit Cards

[jjeffrey]

iTunes is effectively a different site in each country though, accepting the local methods of payment. For example in the EU, Maestro/Switch.

Re:Debit Cards

[Anonymous Coward]

And on the iTMS you can buy Pre-Paid cards from Tescos/Sainbury's/Asda, you can set up an allowance funded by your parents' credit card or can recieve a non-physical gift over the internet. There are plenty of ways that an under 18 can access legal music, the reason they don't is because 79p is worth a lot more to a 13 year old than it is to a 24.

Re:Debit Cards

[Pc_Madness]

Indeed, the prepaid cards for iTunes are everywhere, so its not so much an excuse of not being able too cos of a lack of a credit card.. but more the fact that most teens that age don't have money, and if they do, why would you want to spend what little you have on something everyone else is getting for free? I know I got funny looks when I announced I bought some songs from iTunes (and regret it since cos of all the hassle the DRM has caused me).

They don't buy MP3 files because nobody sells them

[TERdON]

I'm not at all surprised that teens don't buy MP3s. Almost no one sells them! iTunes sells AAC tunes, so that doesn't count, and almost all others use WMA. The only exception I can think of allofmp3.ru and indie record companies which only cater to a niche market...

It explains ring tones at least

[LiquidCoooled]

They can pay with mobile phone credit.

iTunes gift cards

[Rik Sweeney]

In the UK there are quite a few places you can buy iTunes Gift Cards / Vouchers (Tesco, Sainsbury, Argos). Coca-Cola are doing a promotion at the moment where you get a free download from iTunes with each bottle bought. Of course this is limited to 3 per household and you also need to like Coca-Cola*

You also need to have an iPod and iTunes.

*This isn't strictly true as you could buy the bottle for the voucher and give away the drink, or not drink it at all

I disagree

[Propagandhi]

I had a debit card when I was 15-18 so I could have bought music off the web had I chosen to and had the option been available. The real problem is that teens don't have that much cash. All my money was going into my ball and chain at the time (otherwise known as D&D), the ability to pirate music was there so I did it. Pirated music was a lot better than no music at all.

Re:I disagree

[jellomizer]

For your case that is a bad (Really Bad, So bad it makes me angry) excuse to illegally download music. Saying I do not have enough money form of entertainment because I spend to much money in an other form of entertainment, so I have to steal the first form. There is a thing in life called "budgeting" it is a concept that most Americans fail to grasp.
The first step to this "budgeting" is to realize what You need to live Food, Shelter, Heat, Water, these things you always need to make sure you have enough money for, as you are probably a bratty teenybopper, who thinks they are a supper smart hacker type, I will assume that Mommy and Daddy give that to you. The next thing to budget for are for things that will allow you work with society, Taxes, Cloths, culturally relevant Communication tools, transportation, and education. still Mommy and Daddy are still flipping the bill for most of these. Finally the rest of the junk you can buy with your spare money because you really don't need it. Now if you want some junk more then other junk. Then you have a choice how much of Junk A you need vs. Junk B. So fyou example you can buy a book for $30.00 that tells you all about different attributes of Dragons xor (xor is a computer science term meaning "exclusive or" meaning one or the other but not both) 30 songs off of iTunes, or you can balance the approach and get the old version of the book for $15.00 and get 15 songs off of iTunes. But saying I need to steal music because I spent all my money on D&D is no excuse and I hope the RIAA sues your ass.
There are other reasons for illegally downloading music some I agree with and others I respectfully disagree with, but yours is wrong and stupid.

Re:I disagree

[It'sYerMam]

You probably disagree that it's a good excuse because it isn't an excuse at all - it's a reason. It doesn't have to justify pirating, but it is one cause of it, so we can understand it.

Re:I disagree

[ronocdh]

Yes, it is very good to expound the virtues of budgeting, especially (I think) to young Americans. However, you must understand that the concept of budgeting is innately obscured when the ownership of an item not well defined. I'm sure you believe that the artist or the record company holds exclusive ownership of a CD, as that's what it says on the paper documents those parties've hard arranged. The problem is, digital content is infinitely duplicable!

If you purchase a car, and it's sitting in your driveway, I would have a very hard time convincing myself that it is also mine. If, however, you zap that car with a ray gun, making an exact copy of it, and offer it to me, it becomes more difficult for me to resist believing I can own it, too, as it is an item separate from yours (though identical in likeness). The fact that you bought it means it's yours, and the fact that you then offered me something derived of it implies that I may take it without informing the builder of the car, because you own the car--you aren't just "leasing" it; you gave money and need never give the car back.

Another example, addressing your budgeting argument: Johnny likes to cook, but he also likes to decorate his house with flowers. If he spends all his money on food to practice his cooking, then he won't have any left to buy flowers from the florist. Perhaps, though, just out his window, in his neighbor's lawn, is a garden full of gorgeous flowers. His neighbor bought the seeds from the florist and tended them until they grew into many pretty specimens. Perhaps Johnny could lean out the window and dig up just one flower, to plant in his own yard, waiting for it to be properly pollinated and then reproduce into his own lush garden. The likelihood of this "perpetration" (as I suspect you'd call it) increases proportionally with the neighbor's acquiescence to Johnny's plundering.

This means that in order for this to stop, one shouldn't be scolding Johnny, but the neighbor, for not respecting the florist's hegemony in dispensing the ability to culture plants.

Music is a cultural force, and the people, not the corporations, own culture. I am not defending ripping off artists, but I am suggesting that you examine your notion of "ownership" of intellectual property. There was a time when it was a magnificent compliment to have one's ideas reproduced in another's work (think classical Greece), and don't act like monetary gain was the motive. Perhaps the difficulty we're having now is that the bands making music today are doing it for entertainment rather than for artistic purposes. The internet is here, and social networking hasn't been, perhaps never can be, documented in its fullest extent; the record companies are no longer necessary. I want to experience music in the social environment of the internet, then electronically send money directly to those who created it. This means that I could download Britney Spears if I wanted, but you know what? I wouldn't pay for it. That awesome obscure metal band, though, that I think understands all I love about heavy metal? I could PayPal them $50, a hell of a lot more than they'd get from a regular CD purchase. Money should be used only to support what one wants to see more of, at least when it comes to art. Record companies fear the transition to such an economic model, but they know that people wouldn't shell out the big bucks for cookie cutter bands and trashy entertainment. Integrity would rule, and the record companies can't capitalize on that, because they work on exploiting the current economic system, that demands money before experiencing the art.

Also, if you don't believe people would spend money like this, zero dollars for some things, and fifty for others, then you haven't found an artist you truly love, and that's sad.

I don't buy MP3s because...

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no fucking point. If the cops ever stop at my house, I'm screwed anyway: I copy CSS protected DVDs (illegal), I listen to copyprotected CDs on my MP3 player (illegal), I have and know how to use Wireshark (formerly known as Ethereal, soon to be illegal where I live), I encrypt my data (my own data, not illegal but encryption means I'll never get my hardware back). I might as well go all the way. That's what legislators need to get through their thick heads: If you make normal behaviour illegal, you produce criminals. Not only do you hang a sword over the head of good citizens, you also cause more illegal behaviour. If people don't have a fighting chance to be law abiding citizens, then they stop caring about the saner parts of the law as well.

Re:I don't buy MP3s because...

[transporter_ii]

"Did you really think that we want those laws to be observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against - then you'll know that this is not the age for beautiful gestures. We're after power and we mean it. You fellows were pikers, but we know the real trick, and you'd better get wise to it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens' What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted - and you create a nation of law-breakers - and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Rearden, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with."

- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Re:I don't buy MP3s because...

[LordLucless]

"To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt."
        - E. C. Stanton

Oh yes, the problem of paying.

[WWWWolf]

Sure, I'd buy a lot of stuff online. If only paying for the stuff wasn't such a great big pain.

Why is it that international banking is such a great big headache? When the money or goods - virtual or not - cross the borders, everyone seems to be grabbing part of it, if not the governments then the people who transfer it?

Why isn't there a simple, universal, reliable, regulated method for transferring money internationally, no matter how big or small sum? A simple service you'd get automatically when you open a bank account, anywhere, in any bank in the world?

Because people go for the "it works for me" kind of approach. To American companies, credit card "works for me". As long as there's a stopgap measure that covers 85% of who they consider their market segment at the time, there's no problem. They just happen to ignore the tons of people who silently mutter "well, I'd love to get this, but I can't".

Sure, I'd love to buy music. I'd love to buy tons of music. I use Linux and have a (non-Visa-logo) Visa Electron. No iTunes for me? Well, looks like I'm still sticking to ocremix.org and remix.kwed.org for my music needs, then, it's not like other people are producing much music worth listening to anyway.

There used to be some sort of non-DRM MP3 store that had grand total of two songs available and required SMS messages as payment. That rocked. Yay. Too bad they never went past the pilot phase. Would have been the perfect model.

Think of Google. They went for the "long tail" thing - index every nook and cranny of the web, make web advertising easy for small sites, both as advertisers and as advertising space sellers, and make life easy for advertisement viewers too. Then think of search engines of 1996. Small indexes, tons of big-name advertisers, ludicruously priced annoying ads, "let's just focus on the big sites because that's where the money is". That didn't go too far, now did it? And where's Google now?

(Not saying Google Money Transfer would be a particularly good idea - PayPal is a private company and has a lot of problems not found in banks. Not saying Google should necessarily go to the music store business either. =)

iTunes & MP3s?

[Aceticon]

I'm not sure I agree with some of the conclusions here (you can buy iTunes cards at Walgreens), but it's an interesting discussion.

iTunes is selling MP3s? Since when? Last i heard they where only selling DRM encumbered stuff (which is the reason i personally haven't bought anything from iTunes ... and i do own an iPod).

It's too bad CDs aren't around anymore

[bwalling]

I remember back when I was young, we could go out and by music on optical discs. They played in your stereo, in your car, and you could even rip them to MP3. You could even head down to a used record store and pick up used CDs for around $8. Of course, back in those days, we had to walk both ways, up hill, in the snow.

Re:It's too bad CDs aren't around anymore

[Jesselnz]

Where the hell does everyone get the "$20 for 1 good song and a bunch of fillers" thing from. When I buy a cd I pay $10 or $15 for 40 to 60 minutes of music that I actually like. If an artist is able to release a whole album with just one good song... then that probably means they suck.

Re:Maybe tens simply lack the money?

[Gilmoure]

That reminds me, my daughter's 6th birthday party is tomorrow and I need to pick up a case of beer. Kids like Miller, right?