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Ask the Warhammer Online Team
In my recap of 2006's GenCon event, I was somewhat unkind to Warhammer Online. They are far better people than I am, thankfully, and the folks from Mythic Entertainment are extending a hand to the members of the Slashdot community. We have the chance to ask them any questions we'd like about Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning. We'll look through your questions, and pass on the best to the development team at Mythic. We've gotten assurances that responses will be attributed, too, so you'll know who is answering what. Whether you're a Massive game fan or an old-school wargamer Warhammer Online has to have something to interest you, so ask away. One question per post, please, and we'll post the answers as soon as we get them.
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I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
Will the end-game of WAR really, truly be PvP / RvR? WoW was just a PvP tease on top of a quest and loot-oriented PvE game, and it lost the hardcore PvP crowd. Will WAR abandon DAoC's PvP/RvR roots just to appeal to the masses of carebears out there?
What's unique about Warhammer Online, other than the universe that its set in? This could be anything, really: design philosophy, new innovations in gameplay, new technical acomplishments.
Put slightly more bluntly, tell me why I should chose Warhammer Online over World of Warcraft.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
On a site like Slashdot, a lot of us are caught up in online RPG games and console wars. I read the overview of your game on your site but--like a lot of people--I'm not sold. What's the number one reason I should be interested in Warhammer Online? What do you feel sets it above the online successes out there and the average run of the mill games? It appears to have a lot of 'war' involved in it but is there any social aspects to your online game? Is there diplomacy in Warhammer?
My work here is dung.
Will your game cater to the casual gamer (1-2 hours a week) or will it cater only to serious gamers (40 hours a week/second job)? How do you balance a game such that both players can play and feel the game is fair and satisfying?
My work here is dung.
Do you want to chew into WoW's player base or are you targeting players from other games, most notably other Warhammer titles? If you're targeting WoW, what do you do you have to offer and do you think they'll really jump ship? And if you do convince players, how do you intend to keep them playing WH other than eternal grind for herbs or whatever?
One of the most entertaining aspects of WH (IMO) next to strategy, planning, and decimating our enemies is the craft and care of the minitures. And one of the enjoyable parts of playing MMOs is the mod community, wether sanctioned or not. With DAoC there was a definate progression between Mythic and the Mod community. What started out as a non-existant link slowly became a colaboration between Mythic and the modders. Mythic introduced a tool (or information about the tool) to allow modders to impliment custom GUI solutions. An idea that has since been used widely in the MMO field.
Are there currently any plans to have a simlar system that would allow for the introduction of player contributed art to the game? Banners, skins, asorted textures, and the like? Such a system would allow players to not only take pride in their victories, but also in their craftsmanship.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
How does it feel to have EA suck the soul out of your studio and make you push your product unfinished with core feature removed since they are too 'risky' and/or will affect ESRB rating?
Will it feature Skaven???
A playable race even?? Pretty please...
So to compete with World of Warcraft you'll be supporting multiple platforms at launch right? Or is this just another Windows only game that will get a possibly half-assed port if the Windows version is profitable?
I'm a crafter at heart, in fact, I play MMORPGs to craft gear. So what do we loonies get? How do you want to avoid the two pitfalls "Making it so easy that everyone has some sort of crafter, and market prices plummet for everything but the bits that only the primary top guild builders have prints for (see WoW)" and "Making it so hard that you'd rather go with the once-in-a-lifetime-drop 'cause getting it is faster than finding a crafter who can build you something similar (see DAoC)"? Can I sustain myself crafting, or is it at best a hobby for people who have too much money already? Will crafted gear be, economically, be at least on par with drop-only gear?
Oh, only one question. Ok: Is being a crafter a choice that can keep you entertained and sustained by itself?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
One of the best features of WoW is the way you can customize your entire interface and create custom modifications. Will players have the same ability to tweak the interface of Warhammer Online?
Mythic made a wonderful game with the original incarnation of DAoC but watered it down and killed it by trying to capitalize on the everquest model of raid for loot. WoW has done the same thing but to an even greater degree. Both EQ and WoW focus on ease of development and limiting player choices. How will Mythic battle this in Warhammer and keep it slimmed down to the game that people want to play?
Players need choices that mean something. The ability to choose to do or not do raids is not a choice when the rewards severly effect the outcome of the PvP/RvR type combat. Look at the huge change in how things operated from pre-ToA in DAoC vs. post-ToA. Or even better Pre-raid Blue armor vs. Tier 2 or 3 raid sets. Players also need to be able to customize their avatars both in appearance and abilities. WoW fails horribly in this in that every class has talents that should be usable as a customization effort but the setup results in a few cookie-cutter builds for each class or they end up severly gimping themselves. What sort of customization will be allowed and what seperates dwarf fighter #1 from dwarf fighter #2?
Has any thought been given to Mac OS X and Linux versions?
Well, I'll ask it!!
My understanding is that Blizzard (not sure if it was called that at the time) was creating a RTS based on Warhammer FOR Games Workshop. Somehow or another Games Workshop decided they didn't like/want/need the development team anymore, so the game and the team walked and created what is now known as WarCraft I. The rest is history really - it was hugely successful, spawned many sequels, and is now the #1 online RPG in the world.
So now GW is making their own MMORPG, based on their own proprietary game and story. Will it resemble WoW? Of course, but that's because WoW's foundation *IS* Warhammer. It will be what the WarCraft Universe was SUPPOSED to be in the beginning.
If this information is accurate (I've read it somewhere before, wish I could quote a source..) does GW ever 'kick themselves' for the lost opportunity in what would have been their domination of the MMORPG market, and how do they expect to overcome the hurdle of people (who aren't aware of the 'facts(?)') believing that Warhammer is a copycat of WoW?
Its Deluxe, son. Deluxe!
What are you going to do in order to prevent the repetitive grind that most MMOs are [in]famous for ? How many quests in your game follow ye olde template of "kill 20 goblins and bring me their noses... but a goblin only has a 30% chance to drop a nose" ?
At higher levels, will your game require a massive investment of time into raiding the same dungeon over and over, in order to stay competitive with other players ?
>|<*:=
As a former workshop employee, both domestic and abroad, Here are a few Questions :P
.. Blizzard was the company btw, who managed to release the software anyways to some moderate success :)] I know that recent mindsets on the board have stopped seeing video games as 'the enemy' and started seeing them as effective marketing tools to branch boys into 'the hobby', do you find this to be reflected through out the company as well ?
;P] Do your artists have some free reign ? Do you get to use source material from the GW design studio ? How tight are they on your artistic licence, and is it frustrating to work under those constraints ?
:)
1) How difficult do you find it to work with the studio ? Aside from the time differences, Having spent a little time there, I know how possesive the studio is of their IP, and overall mythos. In the past they [I almost said we] have been very difficult to work with from the vantage of software companies in this regard. [Even going so far as to turn down a brand new software company in the early 90's when they pitched a Humans vs Orcs fantasy game
2) What kind of visuals do you work with ? Again, the paper files in the old Notts. studio were EXTENSIVE, I know that mythic has their internal art department. [A place I once applied to after being encouraged by friends who work there, oddly enough , I would have been perfect on this project, but thats neither here nor there
3) Has GW taken you folks to play paint-ball in Nottingham forest yet ?
4) Do you like the pub in the new head office ?
5) Are Jon Stallard and Chris Harbour still Beardy-Ol-Gits ?
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
Item duplication is one of the many banes of the on-line RPG, what will you be doing to counter that kind of abuse? And frankly, what will you do to keep griefers in line?
I ask many of these relative to WoW. This should suprise nobody, as any MMO hoping to compete with WoW should liberally compare itself with - though not necessarily model itself after - WoW.
1.) PvP:
- a.WAR seems to have a PvP focus. Is it possible to focus primarily on PvP and earn enough EXP from PvP so that I will not be forced to "grind up" *for* PvP like players are forced to do in WoW?
- b. In WoW, there are two clear channels of play: PvP and PvE, and PvE must be done to be competative in PvP. What kind of effort will I need to put into PvE to be competative in PvP? I ask this for the players who, like myself, do not want to put anything more than minimal time into PvE because we prefer PvP.
- c. Will PvP be balanced with items, levels/skills, or player skill in mind? IE: Who would win in a fight, the player with the most skill, the best gear, or the highest levels and in-game skills? Again, with WoW as an example, levels and gear are very clearly more important than actual player skill, which I find extremely damaging toward gameplay. Having to mindlessly acquire in-game stuff (I won't even say earn, because earning implies a skill investment as well as the MMO-standard time investment) to play the part of the game I actually like without constanly losing really, really sucks.
- d. What will make PvP in your game different from PvP in other MMOs, again, notably WoW. Will you implement Warhammer's gameplay depth (formations, terrain, etc) to WAR?
- e. How will you address the weaknesses of PvP in today's MMOs. IE: Characters bunnyhopping to avoid enemy meelee and spells, generic "press auto attack and wait" no-player-skill meelee, etc.
2.) Customization:
- a. What kind of UI system are you implementing? I've been critical of WoW here, but I must say that their extremely robust UI modding system is simply excellent and one of the best features of the game.
- b. To many people, part of the appeal of the Warhammer tabletop game is being able to customize your units and create "your" army. Will this , or anything similar, be implemented in WAR? Custom armor color schemes/logos, custom guild banners, etc, all spring to mind as possibilities.
3.) MMO General:
- a. What, if any, MMO conventions will you be breaking? Nobody wants to see gimmicks, but there are some ideas that have struck me as being very good. IE: Allowing players to join more than one guild at a time instead of locking them into a single community of players.
- b. What else do you want us to know about WAR, and why should we play it? I can visit your website for your generic PR pitch, so give us some personal opinions, strenghts and weaknesses of the game, etc, not the usual stuff.
4.) The Most Important Question to Me:
- I want your game to actually feel like the cutscenes available on your website. I do not want to watch these visceral and intense CG videos only to find combat in your game is just more of the same that I've grown tired of months ago. Will combat feel like the videos, or will it be sterile MMO combat?
When I first heard of Warhammer Online I had a slight hope that the designers were going to create an online version of the table top game, something akin to what Wizards of the Coast did with Magic The Gathering Online. Judging by the people I've talked to, this game would be of great interest to current and former battlegamers. Instead you've gone the route of many former Warhammer based games, i.e. simply selected the most popular genre and slapped on the Warhammer universe onto it (ex. Dawn of War).
I'd like to know, besides the Warhammer universe, why should this game appeal to a Warhammer battlegamer. And more importantly, why hasn't a serious online Table Top port been attempted.
> What's unique about Warhammer Online
I was wondering this myself. There are already more fantasy MMORPGs than I can shake a Dextrous Fiery Stick of Warding +8 at. I know, the polls show that Fantasy seems to have more uptake than any other genre of MMORPG, but I really think it's more the marketing and gameplay rather than the actual genre itself. Perhaps the statistics are skewed because there are way more Fantasy MMORPGs than other genres and we simply ignore the ones that have already failed.
For novelty, why not a Warhammer 40K MMORPG? (That's the Sci-Fi version of Warhammer, for those of you who didn't know.) Sure, you'd still have battles planetside (I can't think of a MMORPG where fighting *doesn't* occur on the ground), but I have long envisioned space battles between capital ships/space hulks/craftworlds that may as well be cities (thriving trade, virtual real estate, etc), where entire decks can disappear without a moment's notice in a well-placed shot of heavy weapons fire. I envision subscribers also being able to play the role of individual pilots who are able to customize their fighter craft in accordance to their funds (or military rank). If Twitch Combat isn't your thing, that would be fine - you need not lead that kind of life if you don't want to.
I'd see a 40K MMORPG offering both kinds of combat: one where you rely on skills defined in raw numbers which you can develop through tradtional means (ground combat), and one which relies almost solely on your real-life reaction time (a la Wing Commander).
Solomon Chang
"Twice half-assed makes an ass whole." --Solomon K. Chang
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
The rare amazonian rain forest tree that is actually employing over 100 resident artists. You want all those cool minis, a monthly full colour 80 page magazine, you have to hire folks that can do that.
Workshop products may be dear, but people don't want them less for that - they want them more.
Cardnial rule of success, always leave them wanting more.
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
I noticed that the vampire counts, tomb kings, as well as the dark elves are not shown in the trailer at all; does this mean they're not in the game? That they're the 'bad' guys and thus unplayable? Or was there some reason the trailer simply couldn't include them?
I was a HUGE fan of DAoC, played it religiously for almost 4 years. Unfortunately during the major duration of that time I had 2 accounts active to compete in what I considered a very enjoyable PvP experience. What I would consider the biggest problem with DAoC next to game balance was the issues of botting.
Is botting going to be acceptable in the Warhammer Online world, or is the development team taking steps from a design phase to prevent botting (and creating the requirement to have one) to compete in PvP? Is there 'buffing' classes, or are the buffs spread out more evenly across ALL of the classes to prevent a single botting class. Will crafting/alchemy be used to help remedy the problem (if perceived as such)?
As a player of DAoC thats the #1 reason I left DaoC to play WoW. I was tired of paying for multiple accounts, and I didn't want to go back through the leveling grind/ToA on a classic server where the ranged buffs where implemented.
Thanks for considering this question.
> Ya, right, nobody would ever want to be Eldar or Tyranid.
Tyranid Players would be soooo profitable for Games Workshop:
Tyranid Player: "Woohoo! My Hive Tyrant just made level 40, and now has a retinue of three Carnifexes with Flesh Hooks, Crushing Claws, Regeneration, and Acid Maw! I singlehandedly put together a Guild of 350 other Tyranid players, and I am so pwning this planet!"
Online Gamemaster: "Well, it so happens that you *did* pwn the entire planet. Your Guild, Hive Fleet Fafnir, is almost done sucking up all its biomass. It's time for all of you to climb into the Reclamation Pool now."
TP: "The Recla-what? You mean the disolvvy-looking stuff we've been dumping everything we've conquered into?"
OG: "Of course. That's what Tyranids do. Don't you ever read the Codexes? Tyranids digest *all* biomatter on a planet they're consuming... even their combat units at the end of the process."
TP: "B-b-but that's to reclaim my character's DNA, right? My character will respawn back in the Hive Fleet, right?"
OG: "It is indeed to 'reclaim' your DNA. No, you will not respawn."
TP: "I'll respawn on the next planet we attack, right?"
OG: "No, I'm afraid climbing into a Reclamation Pool is instant, permanent death."
TP: "But I paid $50 for this game. Everyone in my guild paid $50 for their copy!"
OG: "Then you all get to pay another $50. We at Games Workshop hope you have enjoyed your online planet-consuming experience." [drops character into Reclamation Pool]
I should start buying GW stock the moment this game comes out.
Solomon
"Twice half-assed makes an ass whole." --Solomon K. Chang
Boy those grapes are up really high, I bet they are sour anyways.
.. its cheaper to produce them, but at over 250k lbs just for the MOLD tooling itself - how many plastic skaven do you think it takes to recover that ? I worked there when Jess Godwin sculpted the Eldar Falcon Grav Tank. the model was something crazy like 4 feet wide for the tooling. [A 6mm 'epic' figurine pre tooling is sculpted at a height of about 9 inches.] Jess, A full time artist, spent over three months on that project. There are a LOT of costs involved in high detailed plastic molds, which is why you don't see a lot of 'poor' gaming companies with many of them. At least not outside of China. And everyone knows how hard it is to keep up on quality control there.
.. what your PROBABLY comparing the prices to is the cost for a metal box set X number of years ago when *YOU* last bought one. [in 1996 a squad of 10 metal figures was roughtly $25, with a bloodbowl team of 12-14 figures going for $29.99] But you see, now adays, almost all the 'bulk' army figures are plastic, the metal box sets are far and inbetween, and certainly not rank and file troops. Plastic figures for your 'bulk' troops makes sence both from a pocket-book and from a 'bordom of painting the same damn figure 18 times' point of view. Plastic models are easier for a kid to modify, hell - they can just stick the parts on differently and they have a new figure.
Xbox 360 dvd's only cost pennies to press, but they cost $60.00.
MP3's are just files, why do they cost $1 ?
It costs just about as much to make a Honda Accord as it does to make a Series 5 BMW, why can't I get one for the same price ?
Toy soldiers are priced at what GW thinks they should be priced at. It is, regardless of how much people want it to be not, a luxury item, the cataliac of Table Top Miniatures. And as such, yeah, its expensive, but so is a BMW. And I still want me one of those.
Having spent time in the studio, I can assure you that a LOT of man hours goes into making a mold for plastic figures, yes
Ignoring costs for a second, lets look at your base argument.
A box of plastic empire figures (30 some odd figures if I remember correctly) is probably about $35.00 usd now. between $1-$2 a figure. A blister pack of 2-3 empire figures runs about $10 USD. The math is pretty clear.
Now
Older people who cant afford to buy everything they want, are the ones who complain about the price of GW stuff. Spoiled by the years of cheap gaming fixes like MTG and the low $$ output games like D&D where a $20 book is all you need, they expect everything to be like that. I can say this safely, because everytime you complain about the high costs of their product, what I *HEAR* is, 'I want that, I may not be able to afford, or WANT to afford it, but I still want it'.
What you might not understand is that, from an overall focus, Games Workshop doesn't care about people older than 12.
GW's target market is 12 year old boys. I know this, because it was drilled into our heads for YEARS. There are new 12 year old boys every year. Ones who have never heard of Games-Workshop yet, but would love it when they do. 12 year old boy's don't care if Karl Franz on a war griffon costs $35 quid, they just care that he has a WS of 5 and 3 attacks and is kack hard.
12 year old boys will save their pocket money for 4 weeks to buy Karl Franz [or their army's equilivant.] then spend a few weeks painting it. They will come into a store that sells games-workshop once every week to two weeks and spend 7-15 lbs. (10-20 usd) buying their army a few figures at a time. A 12 year old boy is HAPPY when he buys Karl Franz, even if his army isn't done yet, because he now has WEEKS to obsess over the model until its painted and ready to play. Thats how 12 year old boys are wired up. Old beardy men [like you and me] want an army done TOMORROW so we can play. A Part of working at GW that was so rewarding was getting back in touch with my inner 12 year old boy.
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
When i found out that i was getting a beta invite a few months ago, I was pretty excited until i found out this was the fantasy version as opposed to 40K. With the extreme glut of fantasy-based mmo's currently in existence, what prompted you to decide "we have a loyal 40K fanbase, and there are not many sci-fi based mmos, thus we will follow the conventional wisdom and create yet another fantasy-based game."?
I have no issue with you making whatever game you want to make, and think you can make money on. However, I really am curious as to what influenced your decision to go with fantasy over 40k.
I couldn't even get to the PvP based end game in DAoC because the grinding required to get there was so incredibly boring. Even more so than all the other boring treadmill MMOGs. I have wasted more than enough time mindlessly killing rats for no reason, are you going to let us skip the crap and get straight to the game?
A Warcraft rip-off (same way Lord of the Rings ripped off Dungeons and Dragons).
1) The Keeper of Secrets peels the flesh from your body, rapes you skinless and screaming, and then devowers your soul. You are dead, start a new character.
Will my character be able to die?
2) One of the things that turns me off to mmorp games is they just go on and on without any point. If you screw up you just respawn. If you defeat someone else they just respawn. Winning is reduced to a test of who can stand being bored the most and the only way to lose is to have any other interests that prevent you from logging 80 hours a week inplay.
How will Warhammer break or even slightly chip away at the mold of mmorp?
"The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"
Simple question, will we ever see a Necromunda MMORPG? Warhammer is fun but only half as popular as 40k, and the market for warhammer online seems fairly saturated already. Necromunda seems to lend itself almost perfectly to the MMORPG style. I heard that Warhammer 40k was rejected by GW as an option for you as it was being worked on by another company (and was cancelled by them well into your development process). Are there any plans to pick up the pieces? (Necromunda!! :))
Warhammer forums
Wizards TOTALLY failed by becoming too popular :P lol I Met Peter Adkinson At the head office of GW in Lenton. He had come there to talk to Tom about how to manage the explosive growth of his company, and how GW managed it.
.. in the late 90's almost exploded. Its one of the reasons I left. The staff was underpaid horribly. [I was responsible for MILLIONS in sales a year, but was non commissioned, and made less than $30k a year - and THAT was after I help start Games-Workshop Japan.] The Board was losing focus, The market in the UK was starting to saturate, and no one there wanted to shift production to other companies because they were worried about quality control.
.. some went to other gameing companies, including WOTC heh.] If you didn't toe the company line without question, you were put into 'go nowhere' positions. A friend of mine was 'promoted' to the customer service sales line after refusing to cut his hair. A former boss was told on his 10 year anniversery with the company that if he didn't cut his hair, he might as well quit. At the end I personally had a dick-head manager who literally compared his team to the hitler youth, and would expect the same obediance. He wrote me up one August afternoon for sitting down at my desk after lunch without my tie on. [In baltimore, in August, the tempratures can hit 102 easy, with 95% humitity pushing it to an effective heat index of over 115] That was when I decided to go elsewhere. That same manager was fired about a year later under similar circumstances and now sells real-estate.
:)
In the several months following this, they slowly imploded until a few years later the company was finally sold to Hasbro.
Workshop
The company was also losing focus on its products. The imaginative minds at the studio were burning out. The company was starting to focus on profit, and bottom lines - and migrating away from the 'we hire hobbiests' motto they had previously.
We were expected to work longer hours, even to come in on weekend, for no additional money. Cries of 'you can be replaced tomorrow' were used by a lot of the managers who were simply in over their heads.
I was lucky, I had a degree in computer programming, and I left. Some of my friends and co-workers were not so lucky. [Some are still there
It was a big transition from an office that employed 60 people in the US were you would come in wearing a t-shirt and jeans, to an office employing 120 people, and most of you were expected to wear a full suit and tie.
Apparantly its a nicer place to work now, people are better compensated, the company actually has health insurance now. Following on a number of lawsuits where they mistreated former employees, GW US is now required to keep a HR attourney on staff as a consulting position due to these practices.
For a real wage, I would go back, even with all the crap we had to wade through, I made some great friends there [80% of which VANISHED as soon as I left the company, which should tell you about how close knit they are there.] I just don't think they could afford me now
--Ne auderis delere orbem rigidum meum, non erravi pernicose!
Warcraft is actually a rip-off of Warhammer. Warhammer's been around for decades.