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Viking Mars Mission Might Have Missed Life
Johan Louwers writes "The Viking mars mission in 1976 might have missed signs of life due to not completely working analysis equipment. GC-MS on the Viking 1976 Mars missions did not detect organic molecules on the Martian surface, even those expected from meteorite bombardment. This result suggested that the Martian regolith might hold a potent oxidant that converts all organic molecules to carbon dioxide rapidly relative to the rate at which they arrive. This conclusion is influencing the design of Mars missions. We reexamine this conclusion in light of what is known about the oxidation of organic compounds generally and the nature of organics likely to come to Mars via meteorite."
Ask anyone who was around in 1976, they probably wouldn't count that year as the time of their life in which they were the most lucid and observant of their surroundings.
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Is this about non-working equipement or harsh environment capable of destroying organic molecules before they can be detected?
It seems a little silly to base 2006 missions on results from a 30 year old set of space technology. Sure, we were in our heyday of space exploration during the 70's, but our analytical equipment was light years behind where we are now. The largest computes had fractions of the computing power of today's Blackberry's, and we couldn't transmit data faster than ~300 bps back then. Both of these limitations (which don't exist today), would seriously impede the ability to detect signs of life.
Rather than try to deduce why the analyses of 1976 didn't show signs of organic compounds on the surface, why not just perform better tests now with the next Mars mission?
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That's just what they want us to think.
:P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-OYoHJlyGM
...barring some bizarre deep-rock extremophiles.
1. Hard radiation on surface - not good.
2. Virtually zero atmosphere - not that good.
3. No (or little water) - not good.
4. Highly oxidising compounds on surface - very bad.
Each in themselves, not a show-stopper. Two - err... All of them == no life. Well, not as we know it (Jim - sorry).
As a biochemist, I wouldn't expect any form of life (AWKI) to survive those conditions; not even if I were allowed to tweak every other possible variable to the organism's advantage. It would be nice to be proved wrong - but I don't think so.
Mars missions are still extremely expensive, and there's a lot of wisdom behind analyzing past mistakes to make sure they don't happen again in future missions.
The optimism of life-seekers on Mars does not suprise me any longer. Just about every person I have heard quoted believes that either there is life on Mars, or there was in the past. The only dissent I've heard was from James Lovelock, who predicted _before_ the Viking missions that no life would be found on Mars, based on its infrared signature from space. Simply put, he said that on the one planet we know life exists, it has completely transformed our environment to such a degree that would be completely impossible (from the amount of unstable gases in our atmosphere, among other things) for an alien observer to miss it. If there was life on Mars, why has it been so utterly passive and gentle to its environment compared to life on earth?
I'm still convinced by that. I don't think life could have existed on Mars today without transforming its environment, and I don't think it could have existed in the past without leaving huge traces - and it would be very unlikely that it should die out, too. Life as we know it just doesn't behave like that.
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Wrong. The Viking mission detected microbial life. I was a 12 year old paper boy at the time. I remember, this made front page headline news. The Viking mission detected microbial life. The following day it was retracted. I kind of believed that the retraction was false. I always did. Perhaps manipulation from the right wing of our government thinking that we were not ready for the information. hey , if microbes can survive deep in the permafrost in the Antartic, then hey, microbes can survive on mars
deep in the martian soil.
As far as advanced life, well think about how many stars there are, followed by how many solar systems, and the expanse of the universe, heck... an alien life form may be so far out there that we'd never make contact, but heck, it's possible that there's life
out there.
Notice that this article was published in 2000. It doesn't say that the equipment was "broken"; it merely points out that there exist chemical pathways that would result in relatively stable organic compounds that wouldn't have been detected by the Viking equipment. The next mission can look for traces of these compounds specifically, now that someone has pointed out that there is a mechanism for their creation.
It's probably obvious by now that there aren't any bipeds walking around on Mars. Is it feasible to seed microbial colonies now that could possibly assist us for when we have the ability to colonize Mars in 200 years?
At least when Martians launch missions to Earth, they have the courtesy to say "Hi". Even if it's with a million-degree super-laser.
...is of course, still, that there simply is no life on Mars (except for the micro-organisms we brought there from Earth). Just because the equipment failed to detect it, doesn't mean it has to exist. That's like saying "I've never seen a yellow-dotted purple kangaroo, but I may have been looking in the wrong direction so they probably exist."
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with apologies to Father Guido Sarducci...
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
As TFA explains:
TFA then considers the chemistry at the Martian surface and argues that the GC-MS experiement was misdesigned. I am not a chemist and can't speak to the strength of their argument.
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I still vividly remember watching the BBC 'April Fool' documentary 'Alternative 3' in the 70's which scared the hell out of me. For those that never heard of it, it was a documentry about the various scientists that were going missing at the time (for real, in the UK) and claimed they had found out the Earth was dying and the governments of the world had drawn up 3 solutions. 1 & 2 were something like reducing population growth, killing excess/useless members of the population etc. but 3 was to go to Mars, seed the atmosphere and start to collonise it. They had a thread running through of an encrypted video tape they'd been given. When they managed to get a decoder it showed a clip taken by Voyager of the now familiar rock strewn red surface but as the camera panned, the soil started to move and something was clearly alive there and burrowing about under the surface. The point being Mars wasn't as dead as we first thought.
Oh, and the 'missing' scientists were all on Mars working on the terraforming.
Trouble was, it was supposed to be an April fool joke but got showed about a week later causing Orson Wells/War of the Worlds chaos for a few days until the BBC issued a release saying it was all a joke. A book came out about ten years later saying it was all real and the BBC had been forced to cover it up.
To be clear, it was a spoof - it had lots of people in it who are now well known actors but at the time were unknowns.
Alas, apart from a few very grainy clips, it has never been reshown and is almost impossible to find.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
Looking for life or organic compounds coming from Earth to Mars via meteorites. That is a reasonable scenario worth looking into.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
ANY test we perform or observation we make could be totally flawed because we don't know what we're looking for.
Where are the idiots proclaiming that the U.S. faked the Mars Viking landings?
They should have sent an Overlord if they wanted the job done right.
On another note... FOR THE SWARM!
Never send a Viking to do a Norseman's job.
Which doesn't mean "it missed something!" Viking might have "missed something" and yet there still might not be life. It just means it isn't very conclusive so we should go back and look again.
One thing that I continually like to point out is that "life" at a basic level is agressively replicant. If there is any life that is a little successful, it explodes and tries to fill every nook and cranny and does it as fast as it can. If there is life anywhere on Mars it should be easy to find if we take a wide survey testing multiple places at multiple times of the Martian year. Just two tests isn't sufficient to call it either way.
- There are bacteria that actually make use of radiation to provide the energy.
- No atmosphere you say; First off, there is an atmosphere there; It is mostly CO2. Anaerobe anyone?
- No water on Mars? You have to be kidding. It is known that there is plenty of water. But on the surface, It is in the form of ice.
- And again there are bacteria that withstand these compounds (few, but they exist).
Finally, all of these issues are on the surface. Think about caves.I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Mars is a dead planet
And if I close my eyes, I might miss the Pink Unicorn.
There is no life on Mars. There probably never was life on Mars. There is no ecosystem to protect. Let's terraform it.
Yep, we had neo-cons clear back then. Yeah, I remember that when it occured. It occasionally makes it into google as well. The original inventor of the idea backed off because a different route was found that could invalidate the test (it was generation of various gases that were measured via gas chromatograph as I recall. Since then every test that we have done that checks for possible life comes back positive, but we always figure inorganic chemistries that can get around these.
I guess that until we go there and test it directly, we will not know. May not know then either.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Perform the experiment with two soil samples, one of them is first irradiated with a dose similar to that used for sterilization of food or medical equipment here on Earth.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
> The Viking mars mission in 1976 might have missed signs of life due to not completely working analysis equipment.
Yeh just zoom out the camera, and there's a giant Martian city over the next sand dune.
I am the only one who watched the TV series?
Or...there is no live on Mars. ***GASP***
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obviously EVERY mars-mission, that didn't find life there, missed the gasoline for the chainsaw
The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
Many tests for life look for chemical disequilibriums in soil or the atmosphere. The hypothesis is life will cause disequilibriums. One example is that ethane and oxygen together is unstable, since solar energy will eventually cause methane to combine with oxygen to make more stable water and carbon dioxide.
The oxygen disequiblrium found in the Viking soils was attributed to peroxide in the soil caused by UV bombardment. This didnt rule out life, but provided a non-biotic alternative explanation.
A recently discovered disequilibrium is methane emissions from the Martian surface. Life is one of the hypothesis. Again it is ambiguious, because there are abiotic possibilities too.
What if "they" wanted us to "miss them"?7 4575209066
Video Proof: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-26801554
... But Beagle missed Mars.
God Be Gone
s/google/slashdot/; sorry.
I've grown tired of the question regarding existing life on mars. Theocratic arguments don't interest me. I want the next missions to focus only on questions regarding the steps needed to terraform and colonize.
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
The solution to the possible peroxides (not the life-detection) issue is to fly a set of sample materials and see how they react to martian atmosphere and regolith. We've been batting this back and forth for 20 years - just fly some samples and see what happens.
There were reports a few years ago about a new analysis of Viking GC-MS data that showed a 24.5-hour respiration cycle in the regolith samples it gathered. We might have to stop calling it regolith and start calling it soil.
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the Martian race? THAT explains everything. ;-)
LoB
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Seriously, for $400 million or whatever it takes to send a single unmanned probe to Mars for a few weeks or months before the probe dies, we could either a) accomplish many somethings of genuine use back on Earth or b) learn a heck of a lot more about extreme environment microbes by studying the extreme environments that we have all freaking around us which can be studied *without* needing to put the experimental apparatus on a rocket first. Surely biologists would learn more from funding, oh, say a hundred trips to the bottom of the ocean/South African uranium mines/glacier ice/whatever than they do from another trip to what is, in all likelyhood, still just a big dead red rock.
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I think it unlikely that there isn't any life on Mars.
Microbes/bacteria and other simple life processes. They're pretty hardy.
Klaus Biemann was a famous and respected chemist and mass-spectrometrist who had done much of the original work in developing GC-MS, While Gilbert Levine was a relative unknown who had run a start company that sold environmental testing equipment based on the LR technology Levine had invented. Bieman to it as an affront to himself the chemists and mass spectrometry as a technique that a biology experiment could detect life when his chemistry experiment could not. So he took it upon himself to launch an unremitting campaign to prove that the LR results were a false positive. The claimed to have proved this to be so but this was specious as no one had proposed a chemical model that would reproduce the Martian LR results in the laboratory.
Meanwhile experimental tests helped show the reliability of the LR experiments. Samples of Lunar rock from the Apollo missions tested negative, while Antarctic ice cores, which had been shown to contain micro-organisms at a very low level, gave positive results. However Biemann and other chemists, together with those that just simply refused to believe life on Mars is possible, had more or less silenced the debate.
I write this as a chemist who had just started work on GC-MS (and to me Biemann was something of a hero) at the time of the Viking landings (yes I am ancient). However I am convinced now after looking at the evidence that there is a strong case to argue that the LR experiments on the Viking landers provided strong evidence for the presence of microbial life in Martian soil.
This is a blatant case of a Viking not using Spam.
If biological molecules are available they can facultatively use them for growth as in the case of Levine's Labelled Release experiment. This means that there could be very low levels of organic material in the Martian soil yet living potentially active micro-organisms could be present. This would explain the negative result found by the Gas Chromatography-Mass Spectrometry experiment.
Man, those'd be some DOOMed space marines...
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hmmm... dumb...
Remember, Carter was elected in the first election after the Viking probes landed on Mars.
/tards that bust on W's pronunciation of "nuclear"? Well, Carter says it the exact same way.
Carter was (and still is...) the Martian's return probe.
And if you were old enough, you should well remember how badly Carter fucked us all in the ass, like the useless damn anal probe from another planet that he still is. There's a good damn reason Carter was tossed out for an overage washed-up actor.
The overage washed-up actor was a huge improvement.
Let's put it this way: when that overage washed-up actor passed on, it touched a lot of people whether you like it or not. When Carter finally passes, there's going to be a whole lot of people who actually remember his incompetence ("North Korea will never build nukular weapons"... Yah, right) and idiocy (he all but wiped Hugo Chavez's and Yassar Arafat's cum off his chin...) and think it's about damn time.
And all you
An unmanned probe to Mars, if designed well, can last for more than a couple of weeks or months once it reaches Mars. The Opportunity rover has been sending data back for about two years now. The Mars Global Surveyor satellite has been sending data back for more than 8 years. The huge amounts of data obtained by these missions will probably keep scientists busy for a few years after the spacecraft or rovers themselves no longer function. The cost of these unmanned missions is very small compared to what President Bush wants the U.S. to spend over the next decade to send humans to Mars for a short, risky mission that will probably have very little scientific return.
If we focused on sending unmanned probes to Mars and the other planets, the U.S. government could probably afford to fund both the unmanned spacecraft missions and biologists studying extremophiles in hostile environments here on Earth. The President's Vision for Space Exploration has had a terrible effect on NASA science fuding, as well as science funding for other governement agencies as well.
it could simply be that there is no life on Mars.
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I was too busy being born in 1976...
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
remember the people, people. aliens be damned.
However I am convinced now after looking at the evidence that there is a strong case to argue that the LR experiments on the Viking landers provided strong evidence for the presence of microbial life in Martian soil.
No. There was a plausible non-biological explanation. And you need a lot more than the few data points you describe before we can determine the effectiveness of the LR test.Perhaps manipulation from the right wing of our government thinking that we were not ready for the information.
So how did these "right wing" people manage to control the Carter administration a few months later and all those scientists? And how come the actual data from Mars was so inconclusive?Thank you, thank you, thank you. You summarized rather nicely the sometimes rancorous debate between Dr. Gilbert Levin and other scientists. Dr. Levin maintains to this day that the Viking Labeled Release Experiment did in fact detect life. The raw data as well as a useful experimenters notebook from the Viking LR experiment can be found here.
Everyone knows that the Furons killed all life on Mars...
We should be looking on the moon for life. *wink*
What about similar tests on Venus? As I understand Venus, somewhere in the upper atmosphere it is warm enough for liquid water and the pressure is right for earth-like microbes to be very much alive.
Would a similar test run in a balloon floating along prove successful?
Any one know of any funding to test it?
Organic means literally "compounds containing but not limited to Carbon and Hydrogen". Most of the comments here seem to be focussing on the "life" aspect here - Which is not what this science experiment (AFAIK) was about.
O.K. What was it then ? I am still waiting to hear. If they can't reproduce it in the laboratory it is just speculation, unlike the results Levin got which was more than just a "few data points." Look at the data yourself the URL is given in a following post.
First, the Labeled Release (LR) experiment could only run the test on two relevant categories of known soils, terran and lunar. That still is true. I consider that only a couple of data points. You shouldn't claim that you've discovered life based on that kind of evidence.
Second, no experiment has duplicated the LR results, but something chemically analogous to the hypothetical Martian soil type, "peroxide-modified titanium dioxide" has been demonstrated to generate what was observed in the LR experiment.1. Win Powerball
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Of course I wouldn't get the Nobel Prize -- I would go down in history as the chump who spent his Powerball winnings on a Mars probe when he could have had a powerboat and a whirlpool bath. My likelihood of winning Powerball is very remote, but if I can publicize this concept and perhaps someone who actually buys tickets and wins Powerball might do the same thing and discover life on Mars and I would be happy as well.
Gilbert Levin hasn't given up on his Viking LR results as detecting life, and he has badly wanted to fly a follow-up experiment where he gives the bugs preferred levo or dextro broth because a peroxide reaction wouldn't have that preference.
The fix is in I say. Someone finds organic molecules in the Mars meteorite and of course it isn't life because there are tons of non-biological processes for making organics. Someone claims that petroleum comes from inorganic processes as does all of the hydrocarbons in the outer Solar System and the C-type meteorites and of course everyone knows the only way to make hydrocarbons is from dead dinosaurs.
Who sends a people group known for raping and pillaging medieval Europe on a scientific mission anyway?