Slashdot Mirror
Testosterone Tumbling in American Males
An anonymous reader writes "Yahoo is running a story about a study that concludes that testosterone levels are falling across all age groups among American men. It says 'The testosterone-fueled American male may be losing his punch'" I leave it to you all to draw your conclusions about this, but I still wonder what my hours of laptop-fu does to me.
It's all being sold in shops in WoW.
...welcome our new metro-sexual overlords?
Stay sentient. Don't drink bad milk.
At this point, I think it's really more of a "forceful slap" than anything.
What whith the ubiquity of pr0n, avaliable readily for free and without embarrassment on the Intarweb Tubes, the testosterone no longer has a chance to build up in the male body.
Can I have a PhD please?
Stick Men
testosterone drops in a body that doesn't excercise (true for male and for the much smaller amount the female has), it drops in an obese body and moreover body fat produces a female-hormone like steroid
Is that I guess I'm not alone! Now I can point to this study and tell my girl, "See? It's happening to all the guys my age -- you're not cool unless you have a reduced libido!"
Gotta get me one of these!
Having being diagnosed, and having surgery and chemotherapy for this (like Lance Armstrong et al), there is a worrying trend. There is no known cause of this cancer scientifically proved, but after getting this cancer, and speaking 'hear say' to consultants, doctors. etc. one theory is that estrogen (oestrogen), the female hormone, is being dumped into the environment from products (baby products, nappies etc.). This chemical doesn't break down in nature - so drinking water, cows milk, fish, meat... all contain this bumped chemical up that would not otherwise be there. Too see how bad it is, there are even scientific reports of fish changing sex in estrogen rich rivers - do a google on this. This is not a subject to laugh at.
Health-related news is almost always wrong. It'll get contradicted in another study next year.
Remember when everyone got that bird flu? (I was coughing up feathers for weeks.)
Let's see: the article says "Americans" One would presume this would be in comparisson to other countries?. Well, America is more a continent then a country. Comparing the USA to say Germany would give you somewhat weird results. Also, is there a breakdown by: ethnicity, other genetic factors, enviornmental or climate conditions, or Hat size? I could go on. "America" is a all inclusive non-homogenious term. The ONLY malady we all share in common is the IRS.
- Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
Common plastics used to package convenience foods have estrogenic side-effects. If you buy cabbages and beets and bread in paper bags, and stuff in cans, that's great. But buy and store cabbages and beets in plastic bags, plastic refrigerator cartons and it's like getting a little dose of estrogen. Buy microwave dinners in plastic, sitting in plastic-lined little plates, and it's like getting a little dose of estrogen. Buy bread in plastic, soda in plastic, milk in plastic-lined cartons, meat wrapped in plastic, orange juice in plastic, eggs in plastic cartons, and frozen fruits in plastic bags -- Get your Estrogen here, boys!
== buddha is as buddha does ==
Obesity is linked to increased risk of diabetes, diabetes is associated with lower testosterone levels. The article has it wrong - low testosterone does not cause diabetes, it's the other way around. Hypogonadism is a well-known effect of diabetes.
There's your link.
Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
As a web-page of NYUMC suggests, Tai Chi may be of help.
Quote: Enhanced Endocrine and Immune System
One study found that tai chi was associated with increased blood levels of a number of hormones, including thyroid hormone, testosterone, and estradiol. Another study found that tai chi was associated with an increased number of T cells (cells involved in the immune response).
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
What does testosterone have to do with the gender of the child? The gender is a result of chromosome combination. The woman contributes XX, and the man XY. Depending on whether your "X" or "Y" chromosome gets used, the resulting child will be male or female.
Interestingly, spermatozoids carrying the "Y" swim faster, and can be told apart from the "Y" ones that way.
In 100,000 years we die out and get replaced by cats.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
My steaks are wrapped in plastic, but I eat them raw, so it's ok right?
Haida Manga
It's all that crappy emo music that's hitting it big. The guys are becoming even more fragile than us nerds! (And scoring twice the women, still)
space is pretty cool.
It's just further on into the pussification of America.
...Rob
The American Dream isn't an SUV and a house in the suburbs; it's Don't Tread On Me.
If you fight you are put in jail, if you ask someone out at work you are fired and sued, if you are perceived to be an insensitive clod who wants to sit in a bar rather than wash dishes, you are unlikely to get married or have an offspring - thanks also to birth control/abortion. The evolution is selecting against "manly men". Maybe it's time for the society to wake up and move away from extremes.
Kim du Toit explained this phenomenon some time ago in this essay. I think he hit it right on the head.
The article suggests a link is likely (although they don't quote an exact study into such). I think though, the drop in testosterone is among the least of fat people's worries.
I don't understand why people go on and on so much about diseases like Aids in Africa when there is a disease killing millions here in America also, the only difference being it is caused by lack of self-control rather than a virus. Yet so many people treat obesity like it's no big deal unlike other diseases. I can understand Walmart not giving a crap about obesity (after all, the disease makes the company billions) but surely everyone else must be concerned that their obese friend/colleague/themselves/relative is going to die decades before they're meant to. Would people ignore their friend/colleague/themselves/relative's disease so much if it was Aids?
But cats already rule the world; we just don't want to admit it. Behind every evil genius is an even more evil cat.
Yes, "Y" spermatozoids are faster, but "X" ones live longer. So, if by the time they're inside and no egg is there to be fertilized, chances are that "Y" ones will die, and "X" will win if an egg is released afterwards.
For the record, there's no data that suggests a correlation between testosterone levels and homosexuality. In fact, physicans once tried to "treat" homosexuality with testosterone injections, and the subjects just became more homosexually active.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
yup, google estrogen and "nonyphenol" or "bisphenol A" (there's others too) heating in microwave ovens likely increases the dosages, never thought of that until now. crap.
What I've heard, testosterone is related to sexual drive. I know some mid-age women that have been treated with testosterone to cure their lack of interest in sex, and it works. Like the parent said before me, it has nothing to do with homosexuality. At all.
Here's the obligatory link to more info on the estrogen-plastic issue.
In light of this revelation, it is important to note that according to research, the amount of estrogen one would ingest from plastic doesn't compare to the rate of testosterone aromatization in a young healthy male (let alone a steroid laden jock). The bottom line is that a body needs both estrogen and testosterone (though amounts do differ between M&F).
I'm not fat, just big boned...
Interesting. Actually I figured the decrease of testosterone explained alot regarding why Americans are afraid to pick their balls up from off the floor and fight for their liberty.
Admit it: you just want an excuse to watch lesbian porn
You have tried to support your argument with faulty reasoning! Go directly to jail; do not pass Go, do not collect $200!
since when do I need an excuse?
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Are you joking...?
Saying please or thank you most certainly does make you a man. Not saying them, makes you a pig. Take for example your Army's much vaulted hero, John Wayne. As an archetype he is most decidedly rich in testosterone, most certainly a man's man, and most certainly a gentleman too. Can you imagine him not saying please or thank you, because I can't.
If you are serious, and I'm not convinced you are, I think perhaps you have a little too much testosterone, and too little education (maybe you think book learnin is for girls too huh?). Being masculine and tough doesn't mean you need to behave like an animal, nor does it mean you need to go a-guntoting and a-killin and a-whuppin some good ol boys. You can be not only tough, strong and manly but also kind and compassionate at the same time.
And I think your concept of economics may be flawed too. Just a guess, but you may find your employees work a little better when you treat them with courtesy, you may also find that if you continue to treat them rudely that one day they may just turn and sabotage your operation. Just a thought...
Quite probably, yes. Adipose cells make an enzyme called aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen for the fat cell's use. (estrogen actually makes fat more metabolically active, so it's not really a bad thing per se) This, however, has the effect of lowering free testosterone in the body as a whole. If you lose fat, your testosterone levels WILL increase.
However, keep in mind humans are the only animal species that actually get overall, most of their testosterone from DHEA rather than free testosterone in the blood. In addition to stimulating androgen receptors directly, DHEA is also metabolized by local tissues into testosterone (and estrogen) as needed. So free testosterone is one part of the picture. Androgen receptor sensitivity and density also matter, but I'm uncertain as to what factors dynamically affect those in adults.
No, more like the incessant pussification of the male race and the metrosexual trend. The government should mandate that those who have low testosterone for no good reason must watch movies like Commando until their testosterone level rises to acceptable levels.
Indeed, polycarbonate - which is in pretty much everything - is made from a chemical originally used as a synthetic estrogen, bisphenol A. Bisphenol A will leech from polycarbonate food or drink containers, especially ones cleaned with very hot water, or with bleach. (Some plastics are safer: #1 PETE, #2 HDPE are fairly safe from leaching and are easy to recycle, #4 LDPE and #5 PP are also said to be safe for food storage.)
Many other chemical pollutants are also xenoestrogens. And there's also the widespread use of hormones in animal farming, as well as medical uses which means excess amounts being urinated out and ending up in the water supply.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
And yet it is people like Tilman, a democrat that went to Afghanastan, who was opposed to the current set of republicans. While nearly all congressional and white house republicans who avoided serving this country are the same ones that send us to war. All in all, you are full of crap.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
If you think that treating others rudely is what makes a man a man, that's a damn shame.
Some feminists are quick to claim the many of the world's problems are due to men being in charge. Really though, the problem is that there are few actual men, and a hell of a lot of boys in adult bodies, running things.
Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
You cannot wash away blood with blood
Scientists have discovered a wide range of other drugs in our drinking water, from pain killers to... antidepressants.
:).
I know I always feel better after a tall glass of water. I guess that explains it
is that there are still some of us left with unreduced libidos, who are capable of stepping up and picking up the slack. I'm willing to score with your girlfriend or with any other attractive women who share her problem, working round the clock if that's the kind of unflagging effort necessary to keep up the American birthrate.
No need to thank me. The chance to service my country is all the thanks I need.
Clearly we need to start adding testosterone to plastic. Then we can have male and female versions of soda bottles. The companies can charge extra for the "man's drink bottle" to offset the extra expense, as men won't want to be caught with the "women's drink bottle"[1]. I think I had better patent this...
[1] this logic might not work on male Mac users.
My theory on homosexuality is that it is a natural population control mechanism when an environment begins to exceed it's carrying capacity. I would suggest that is real study were done, you'd find less homosexuality in environments where there are plenty of resources and a small population. Contrary to that, I think you'd find abundant homosexuality in ares where resources are scarce and overpopulation is a problem. (Note: I'm not talking about "out" homosexuality, because cultural pressures are often contrary to natural and normal behavior) Of course I believe in a firm biological basis for sexual preference. I also believe that there are two kinds of sexual preference, which most people tend to not want to think about. I think that the "bi" population of married women who occasionally have "lesbian" encounters is a perfect illustration. I put the "lesbian" in quotesd because these women are not lesbians as they don't have any romantic interest in women at all. They might like their female sex partners a lot. They might even go as far as saying that they love them. But they won't leave their husbands for these women. Therefore this behavior is a completely different thing when compared with real lesbians who truly have no romantic+sexual interest in men. But, to add more complexity to the mix, take the segment of the true lesbian population who DO have a sexual, but non-romantic interest in men. Typically this sort of relationship is sadistic in nature and part of the BD/SM culture. These lesbians might want to be involved with a submissive man's wife in both a sexual and romantic nature. They might also want to submit the male member of this threesome to homosexual acts. In this instance the lesbian has no true interest in the male at all other than to humiliate him. Another segment of the population are the "straight" men who get involved in secret sexual relationships with other men. One or both men might strongly assert that they are "straight" and excuse the homosexual interaction as just "horsing around". If you look at it from the perspective of pure sexuality, these men are interacting in homosexual activity which implies that they are homosexual regardless of what they may say. If you look at it from the romantic+sexual perspective, these men have no desire or longing to have a romantic relationship at all. From that perspective, they are "straight". All of this illustrates that human beings all fall somewhere on a continuum of sexual identity. All societies put too much focus on the sexual behavior as being intertwined with romance. The way I see it:
1. You have sex for pleasure which can be had in any combination of genders, any number of participants, any marital status and has no romantic value whatsoever.
2. You have sex as a symbol of romantic love, which can also apply to any combination of genders, participants and marital status, however it most traditionally is between two people of the same or opposite sexes.
3. You have sex as a "quick fix" anitdote for boredom, which can occasionally be same sex gratification with a huge guilt complex to follow if you confuse sex with romantic intention
4. You have "handshake sex" which is simply quick sex with no strings attached. A fairly difficult kind of sex to truly engage in as most people apply the strings no matter what they say on the surface
5. You have minimal sex romance where the involved partners love each other on a higher romantic plane and may or may not indulge in sex, but may very well be same or opposite sex partners (This is typically the type of relationship that is headed for marriage)
6. You have maximal sex romance where the involved partners are extremely romantic and sexual in nature, may be of the same or opposite sex and they engage in a variety of sexual and romanti endeavors together (polyamory, swingers, open marriage, etc...)
Most people don't like this sort of complexity and shy away from it, but I firmly believe it's inescapable and has a true bilogical function in terms of a self-regulating environment. We are merely cogs in the machinations of the sexual realm. With that view, I say that anything goes, and you should just go with the flow...
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
It's because people keep bitching about how unhealthy red meat is.
What happened to the days when a guy could fix his car in his garage, build something in the basement, then eat a nice big juicy steak with a potato for dinner, then go watch the news about a war?
This war on terror isn't a real war, there's no good healthy warmongering in it...it's all about "protect the children" rather than my bombs are bigger and faster than yours.
We need to stop stomping out countries on the verge of becoming competitive world powers. We need another cold war, where men can be paranoid until they're real men.
We also need a new generation of muscle cars, and more lumber yards cropping up, these "home centers" make me want to puke.
In the infamous words of George Carlin, later repeated by Denis Leary and others (which I will poorly misquote)... A man needs to sit home eating red meat and watching the war on TV!
Real men drink Pabst blue Ribbon beer, and punch holes in the wall to prod their ego.... and thats what a real man is... Flesh, Blood, Muscle and ego!
Now I'm off to play with my dollies.
Make America grate again!
The other possibility is the males' levels of testosterone are dropping because they are biologically less able to produce it than they were in the 1980s. The Testosterone level in a male goes in parallel to his level of zinc intake. If you are a male who is zinc deficient, you are going to lack testosterone too. A decline of zinc in the American food supply or a changing American diet which contains less zinc rich foods like beef is going to lower the males' average testosterone level. Low zinc levels causes anorexia in females, which also seems to have worsened since the 1980s.
That's why I only drink grain alcohol and rain water.
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Having a high testosterone level is a hormonal nuisance, sort of like when women get cramps during their period, or hot flashes during menopause. I'm 40 now, but I still remember what it was like being 15-25. Thank God that's over with! It's no fun when the presence of a nubile female gives you an erection that hurts, and lasts as long as she's nearby. I have my own personal list of embarrassing things I did under the influence of testosterone, and I'm sure every other male past puberty has a similar list.
As an individual, this whole thing is also a nonissue, because natural differences in hormone levels bewteen one man and the next are probably huge -- much bigger than the effect being claimed.
What's really scary about this is not the effect it's having on adult males (and the rest of society), which may be positive. What's scary is:
Find free books.
You're thinking of beer.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Toit mentions wanting to take a
I am the wife of one such "pussified" (as Toit puts it) man. My husband has diabetes and many of the usual complications that come with it, one of which is low testosterone (less than half the "normal" amount). You know what? I'm GLAD his attitude is the way it is. If anything, the reduced testosterone level has served to soften the hard shell he says he used to have. He's well aware of my feelings as well as his own, and he's not afraid to show them. He loves me deeper than words can describe, and I love him equally. He loves nature, cares about his and my health, and...well, you get the idea. I don't expect I'd find any of this in the macho type Toit is trying to rally.
The way I figure it, the average Slashdot user is getting close to that time in their lives when they feel the desire to find a mate and maybe start a family. For the group of you folks who fall in line with Toit's attitude, face this fact: After hundreds of years of you men telling us women to shut up and get in line, your type is being phased out, whether you like it or not. The world does not need your crap anymore, nor does it need the sterotypical southern belle attitude some women used to have, either. Rather, all need to move away from the extremes toward some common, middle ground where men AND women can be happy.
Since evolution is a continuous, not discrete, process, the degeneration of Y will not lead to the disappearance of sex chromosomes. It might sound a little surprising, but is actually well-founded.
Imagine that Y degenerates to the point at which the only meaningful (non-intron) sequence on it is the SRY - Sex-determining Region of Y. SRY is the primary determinant of human gender, the testicles are actually all caused by SRY. At this point, any further degeneration will create females incapable of procreating, so the "SRY-less" trait will not propagate.
Therefore, SRY will be preserved by pure natural selection. At some point, the degenerate heterochromosome will be included into some autosome, which will therefore become the new sex chromosome. That is actually happening sometimes with other species.
Baby products and "nappies" don't contain estrogen to be dumped into the evironment. The reason beef contains so much estrogen is because we inject young steers with estrogen to make them grow more. It tricks their bodies into growing at a much faster rate like it did as a fetus and young infant.
The terms were defined as such to resolve ambiguity back in the 19th century to better describe intersexed, homosexual, and transsexual people.
Way to "revise" history. The usage of the word gender to describe someone's personality as opposed to their biological sex was invented in the middle of the 20th century. It is technical jargon used by social scientists and psychologists. I'm really tired of seeing people "corrected" when they use gender as a synonym for sex. When the the Merriam-Webster Dictionary lists "sex" as a definition, it's good enough for me. Stop trying to impose what you were told in your Humanities electives on the rest of us.
If you can read this sig, you're too close.
Then I realised a few things:
I may not excercise much beyond walking the mutt around the block, but playing
games that up the adrenalin levels and has even forced a girlfriend or two to
leave the room, saying "Too much testosterone for me".
So deathmatch may not be a full contact sport, but the chemical effects are similar.
Guys being guys; talking smack, killing their friends virtually and having a blast being
assholes. Good times.
Quote:I leave it to you all to draw your conclusions about this, but I still wonder what my hours of laptop-fu does to me.
I'd ask two questions:
When was the last time you did something that made you say "Hell, yeah" or do/say something non-PC or trash talk.
When was the last time you used a chainsaw (doom 1/2/3 sorta counts, electric chainsaws don't) or any power tool?
If it's been more than a month or so, LAN party and make some noise, buy a fucking overpowered tool for your needs, go to a gun range, paintball war, BB gun and shoot *SOMETHING*, FFS.
Or, hell, if that's too much, too soon and you're worried your missing your favorite cooking
show or some shit, at least go out an BBQ something. Men don't cook unless there is fire or danger involved, eh? Plates, knives and forks and eat.
If you are worried about place settings or matching whateverthefuck... it's hopeless, so just take one of those Sony batteries that needs a recall, short the contacts and place down your trousers where your balls might be located and wait. It'll all be over soon.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Estrogens are to blame for this behavior.
No, not the natural estrogens that women produce, but the man-made estrogens present in pretty much every product you can purchase today: soda bottles, laundry detergent, hand soap, gasoline - pretty much anything that is derived from petrolium in some way. These estrogens (IIRC) block the production of testosterone as well as the natural production of estrogen. In women, it contirbutes to fuglyness (hairy lips, etc.) and things like ovarian cancer; in men it contributes to femininity and general lack of testosterone.
And let me be the first to say: this is why there are so many liberals.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
You left off #7 - "Hall sex" - where you pass each other in the hallway and go "F*ck you". "Yeah? Well f*ck you too!"
By shooting people you do not show that you can stand up for yourself. Further more, you're comitting a grievous logical fallacy by equating a punch to a shot. There's a huge difference between punching someone and shooting them dead, and if you can't see the difference there's something seriously wrong with you. If you lose a fistfight at school, tough shit. You don't go get a gun and come back the next day. There's no honor in that.
You have a completely wrong-headed idea of why the past generations fought as well. None of the men involved in the wars of our past generations extolled the virtues of warfare. If you asked any or all of them, they would all tell you that war is hell. But in at least one of the wars of the past generation, most everyone involved felt that they had to fight in order to preserve an ideal. In WWII, when the Nazis swept across Europe and the fascists took power, America fought to preserve the idea that people have to have the freedom to choose and to think for themselves.
There's danger in being able to think for yourself and being able to choose, but life without danger is life unlived. It's a shame that the America of today is slipping into a safe, clean, peaceful police state. I'd much rather have a little anarchy and dissent in the streets and the schools and be able to decide for myself what is safe then to have Big Brother decide for me. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
It's certainly not manly to start a fight, but it is manly to defend yourself. At the same time, we all have to stick up for and preserve our ideals against whatever odds prevail. To give up the idea of freedom for the theatre of security is a fool's gambit. I would discourage my children from starting fights, but encourage them to stick up for others, with violence as a last resort. Sympathize with the parents of the children injured in fights, punish your children for taking the fight too far, but don't tell them that all forms of violence are evil and must be supressed. In the last, you encourage them to be victims, and the victimization of society is leading to its dysfunction.
SRSLY.
Chicks dig it when you read the primary sources.
/ jc.2006-1375v1
BTW, always ask who paid for the study. In this case, it's the National Institutes of Health (not the Testosterone Salesmen of America). That's why they have to post the manuscript free online.
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract
This version published online on October 24, 2006
Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism, doi:10.1210/jc.2006-1375
A population-level decline in serum testosterone levels in American men
Thomas G Travison*, Andre B Araujo, Amy B O'Donnell, Varant Kupelian, and John B McKinlay
New England Research Institutes, Watertown, MA, USA
Context. Age-specific estimates of mean testosterone (T) concentrations appear to vary by year of observation and by birth cohort, and estimates of longitudinal declines in T typically outstrip cross-sectional decreases. These observations motivate a hypothesis of a population-level decrease in T over calendar time, independent of chronologic aging.
Objective. To establish the magnitude of population-level changes in serum T concentrations, and the degree to which they are explained by secular changes in relative weight and other factors.
Design. A prospective cohort study of health and endocrine functioning in randomly selected men of age 45-79 y. Three data collection waves: baseline (T1: 1987-89) and two follow-ups (T2: 1995-97, T3: 2002-04).
Setting. An observational study of randomly selected men residing in greater Boston, MA, USA.
Participants. Data obtained on 1374, 906 and 489 men at T1, T2, and T3, respectively, totaling 2769 observations taken on 1532 men.
Main outcome measures. Serum total testosterone and calculated bioavailable testosterone.
Results. We observe a substantial age-independent decline in T that does not appear to be attributable to observed changes in explanatory factors, including health and lifestyle characteristics such as smoking and obesity. The estimated population-level declines are greater in magnitude than the cross-sectional declines in T typically associated with age.
Conclusions. These results indicate that recent years have seen a substantial, and as yet unrecognized, age-independent population-level decrease in T in American men, potentially due to birth cohort differences or to health or environmental effects not captured in observed data.
Real nerds read the meeting abstracts:
5th World Congress on the Aging Male, Salzburg, Austria, February 9-12, 2006
http://www.kenes.com/aging/aging5/index.asp
Is it a coincidence that our processed foods became inundated with huge amounts of corn syrup and soya fillers starting in the 80's?
"The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
But "real" isn't the swaggering jock: He is exactly like his counterpart the flamboyant "metrosexual" (how I detest that word -- but it communicates): He is affecting a style of behavior that is not truly his own. I have no respect for him.
Do not be like Napolean, who fought wars to make up for his small stature. It takes the bigger man to show restraint. Master yourself before you seek to master others. Violence is weakness.
Du Toit is correct that the TV-sitcom "man" is weak, hen-pecked, and impotant -- as are too many real life men. But this is not because they do not drink enough beer, and it is not because they do not watch enough football. It is because, chained by guaranteed sex to relationships they do not want, they do not have the strength to hold their principles above their libidos. Restraint is strength.
Take a punch. Stand tall. Do not strike back, but speak clearly: "You will leave now."
Meet a girl. She is drunk, and on top of you. Quietly say, "no." Put her to bed. Close the door behind you.
Whence disappeared "to be a man?" Strength. Respect. Honor. Real men are not pigs. Real men are good men.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
You know.. I made it to adulthood. But I totally sympathise with these shooters every time.
You have some 185 pound "jock" picking on someone and ruining their life for months. The school does *nothing* about it. In some cases other jock's join in.
I saw it. I lived it a bit, but even tho I wasn't aggressive- I was 6'5" and when I snapped (as I did 6 times from kindergarten bullying to 10th grade bullying in high school) I kicked the crap out of them so badly (choking one unconcious basically-- I was never much for "punching" as much as "killing") that I didn't get picked on again.
For all the 5' kids picked on by jocks, they have no hope of winning and are going to have years of their life ruined by these sub-neanderthals. I *completely* understand why they shoot their tormenters. The gun is the only way they have to equalize the odds against someone twice their size (and who *still* often has 2 to 3 other thugs to help because the bullies are fundamentally cowards).
It's sick to go kill a bunch of helpless kids. It's not even all that irrational to go kill people that have been torturing you for months and nothing is or can be done to stop them.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.