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Hiring (Superstar) Programmers
Ross Turk wrote, "We've been looking for senior engineers to work on SourceForge.net for a while now, and it's been a lot more difficult than it was a few years ago. Has the tech market improved so much that working on a prominent website is no longer enough to attract the best talent? Is everyone else running into the same problems, or is it just here in the Valley and other high-tech corridors?" This is a question that I've seen coming in a lot; the economy has not picked up everywhere — so how are other people handling this? Going outside the traditional Valley/Route 128 corridors? Outsourcing? And how do you find people — beyond just using job boards? (Full disclosure: That's our job board thingie, as you probably have figured out.) Or do job boards alone work? Some people have been swearing up and down that CraigsList works — and there's always something to be said for nepotism.
At least for me in the Boston area, when I freelanced, for every 1 decent job on craigslist there were probably about 80 start ups/1 man and his dream type of 'opportunities'. Of course they were all looking for the same thing: a developer that has years of experience that wants to work for next to nothing and get that 'big pay' off when the site is complete.
It got bad enough for me that I stopped looking on craigslist and anytime I go back just to check it out - it seems to not have changed. There are quite a few 'tech/programmer' based headhunters in the more computer savvy areas of the country, I'd give them a shot on top of the normal web based options.
As a long-time sysadmin, I've found it hard to keep steady employment -- although I usually do startups and small dev shops because they're fun (if not so lucrative). One thing I've had a hard time with, is getting through all the job board spam -- I hate it!
I have my resume up on monster -- clearly as a sysadmin. I get messages about insurance sales, modeling, marketing, and Amway-style multi-level-marketing jobs. Also, there are recruiters up there harvesting resumes, with no actual jobs. I got so mad that I had to do something about it -- so I did.
Recruiter-Rater is a rate-your-recruiter type of website. Have good dealings with a recruter? Please post about it, we'd love to hear your success story. Got a recruiter repeatedly wasting your time? Post about that too. Bad recruiters need to be shamed out of existance, and good recruiters should see their commissions increase.
Seriously. I would get an email about a job in my area. I'd apply, send-in a resume, sometimes talk to the guy on the phone -- and never hear from them again, until they have another req, starting the cycle again.
I've been at this job-hunting game for a while, and just recently I've almost completely given up as a wage-slave, except that I still need money to live. Of course, being here in Pittsburgh certianly does *not* help, but it is easier to be broke and still live pretty well here, than it is to be broke and live in places like Boston.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
Because they could.
The best engineer I know left the profession during the last downturn. He was a doctor, so he returned to medicine.
I think a lot of other smart people changed profession.
It's the law of unintended consequences again.
--- "We've always been at war with Eastasia."
I think the problem stems from just so many great jobs available for great designers and developers in the industry these days. We've been looking for an Interactive Creative Director for a few months now, with no impressive resumes coming in.
Most people are happy enough where they are--good enough pay, good enough benefits, and currently there is a lot of stability... it's hard to get people to want to make the effort to move unless they are Really excited about what you are doing and there is more than just a financial benefit to them. I think, at least right now, pay and benefits are important--but an interesting opportunity can pull the right people. Sounds like you are doing all the right things, it just takes a lot of time for people with good jobs to find a new opportunity when they aren't looking for it. Fact of the matter is, most awesome designers/developers are working on awesome projects and not browsing job boards.
Good luck.
We Apprentice Developers and Designers
Agreed.
Real, boring, bank type work is picking up, and although it is not very exciting, it is _very_ well paid.
A web start up needs to compete with that.
When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
From the Sourceforge job listing: "US Citizenship or Permanent Residency required". See, that's the problem right there. You're discriminating against all the superstar illegal alien programmers, you ignorant clods!
Time to up the H1-B quota again??
It's hard to get people to really look at your company. For example, I work for ITA Software, and we're probably one of the best options for the superstar programmer on the east coast. We do real computer science (you know, that stuff you thought you'd never do for real work again after your PhD? One thing that works out is that we have programming puzzles on each of our job's pages like this one: Computer Scientist/Programmer. These puzzles are fun, and just hard enough that your average Java Certified Web flunky will get weeded out. It really helps.
Of course, for operations and other areas of the company, it's still hard to attract the right eyes.
A lot of (talented) sysadmin's like me aren't looking for full time employment anymore. I am currently looking for downphasing to a part time job now and if you have something to offer, I can always look into it. Full time sysadmining (as I am doing now) leaves talented people exhausted and squeezed out before they hit 40. I know a lot of people that quit their IT-profession (programmers, administrators) and either work for themselves or work somewhere part time because bigger companies are constantly looking to get the most out of them since they are so dispensable and we have (or had) a lot of them.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
I just graduated `06 EECS from a certain east coast 'tute. :)
Many close friends are now working for M$, Google, etc. but the fiercest hiring demand has actually been from the financial sector. Undergrads these days typically get 6-figure comp (first year) from the ibanks and hedge funds. The attrition rate is high, but those who thrive as traders can rise up to 7 to 8 figures in less than a decade. It's not quite up to the levels of Messrs. Page and Brin, but you can certainly secure a mortgage with that kind of cash
I work for a company that pays very well.
There's a very high turnover rate, and I believe the 50 - 100 (yes, 100) hour work weeks may have something to do with it.
"The need to build the internet comes from something inside us, something programmed... something we can't resist."
I'll give you points for sticking your neck out in a topic like this. I think this is just a flame fest.
FLAME ON!
IANA developer, but on the admin side, higher pay may be indicative of many factors including time and scope of responsibility. The factor to which I find a lot of lip service is paid is skill. I have worked for several companies that "hired me for my skills". The job descriptions were very particular with respect to skills required, and in some cases, my skills were tested prior to hiring. The scarcity of admins with my skillset drives up the price, which seems like basic economic stuff. The reality was that I was still expected to support and fix lots of stuff that was outside of my skillset, because the higher on the ladder the problem got, the less they care about skills and the more they care about money, as in how much money the problem is costing, or how much money they pay me. "It's a computer. Fix it."
Ummm, Jon, aren't you supposed to be dead...? - Otter(3800)
What exactly does "competitive" mean? I almost always interpret it as meaning "average"--or just slightly above. And that's not enough to peak my interest at this stage of my career.
Too true. One of my former (fortune 500) employers had two habits, one was announcing that they paid according to industry standards, and the other was insisting that during reviews nearly everyone should get a standard rating of 3/5. Nobody should ever get rated well above average.
The message was clear, we only hire highly mediocre candidates.
Then they were shocked that when they offered a voluntary separation package 249 out of 251 IT employees volunteered. The two that didn't volunteer were a single mom and the only guy who had work from home privileges.
They had to change the VSP to take people with the most seniority first.
There was actually one case that I know of where the person who had the second highest seniority in a group bribed the guy in front of him by offering to pay him a portion of the separation package to let the second guy get out of the company!
-- Should there be smoke coming out of my CPU?
I moved to Colorado from New York about ten years ago with this in mind. But now, in my 30s I've really come to regret it. It's not even about the "things" there are to do. My New York friends barely have the money to do any of that. But there is a different energy and I feel it every time I go back to visit. Now that I've finally come to terms with that, I can't bring myself to move back when all my contacts are here and the cost of living is so high back there. It's too much of a gamble to move in that direction. But if you're in a cool city like that, I'd be hesitant to leave. I've met a lot of New Yorkers in Colorado and they've all echoed the same sentiments. The mountains alone, just can't compete. Find a place you love and develop your contacts there.
Or you can do what one of our developers did with all the extra cash: buy an RV and park it on the company lot to save a couple of hours of driving every day. Everyone thought it was a brilliant idea (and he wrote it off as a business expense too).