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China - We Don't Censor the Internet
kaufmanmoore writes "A Chinese government official at a United Nations summit in Athens on internet governance has claimed that no Net censorship exists at all in China. The article includes an exchange by a Chinese government official and a BBC reporter over the blocking of the BBC in China." From the article: "I don't think we should be using different standards to judge China. In China, we don't have software blocking Internet sites. Sometimes we have trouble accessing them. But that's a different problem. I know that some colleagues listen to the BBC in their offices from the Webcast. And I've heard people say that the BBC is not available in China or that it's blocked. I'm sure I don't know why people say this kind of thing. We do not have restrictions at all."
Despite the fact that many outside of China know that it indeed does exist, this piece of news is more likely intended for those within China.
I think this guy has never had one of his lies pointed out in his face.
Well, if his high-ranking government official collegues are able to get an uncensored Internet feed, that must mean they don't have any censorship, right?
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
Technically... in Chinese legalspeek(tm) he's probably right.
It's not "censorship" it's "protection of the people from incorrect thoughts".
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hs=B4b&hl =en&q=tiananmen+square&btnG=Search
e n+square&btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2%E5%9B%BE%E7%89%87
VS:
http://images.google.cn/images?hl=zh-CN&q=tiananm
Thank you, China. Because every day, when I get up and read the U.S. news, and think "goddamn, our country is going into the toilet," all I have to do is turn to the International section to realize that it could always be worse.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
1. Smash up Human Rights.
2. Get all the International Community busy discussing some nonsensical omfg-lmao statement you make.
3. Profit.
My 0.02 cents
tiananmen square didn't happen either, why would we need such a thing as a filter. And no idea what google is talking about at all
"A Chinese government official at a United Nations summit in Athens on internet governance has claimed that no Net censorship exists at all in China.
If truth was that easy.
I'm a millionaire. I own a mansion and a yacht.
I think I've found Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf's new job.
Spin for one government is the same as a spin for another government, right?
Trust The Computer, The Computer is your Friend. Happiness is Mandatory! (I'm dressed as a troubleshooter this Halloween, but an Iraqi Information Minister would have worked as well)
I assert that my comment is only my opinion, not that of any employer, past, present or future.
I think this:
In China, we don't have software blocking Internet sites. Sometimes we have trouble accessing them. But that's a different problem.
should've read:
In China, we don't have software blocking Internet sites. Sometimes we have trouble accessing them. But that's because the hardware filters doesn't work most of the time.
US Image Search for Tiananmen Square
China Image Search for the same
Who doesn't censor the internet, now?
SAILING MISHAP
Glad to see 'Baghdad Bob' was able to find employment working for the Chinese government.
[Insert pithy quote here]
Sometimes when you buy an old radio in Wisconsin, where lots of German immigrants settled, you'll find all the shortwave radio coils have been snipped out. In WW2 the govt censored SW reception by going into people's houses and doctoring their radios so they couldnt puick up far-away radio stations. Not one of the highpoints of the bill of rights.
Awesome example. However, I suspect some Chinese official would come back with a response of how Google wishes to promote only peaceful images of Tiananmen Square and they had nothing to do with the image results of an American-based company.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
I think just using the CN in a google search must not be returning the same results, but there's no way for me to test this.
& btnG=%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2%E5%9B%BE%E7%89%87&ie=UTF-8 &oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw
For instance - plug in the term censorship in the same link that the AC used -
http://www.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=censorship
I saw links to Wiki with full articles on censorship in the ROC. Would this work if searched while located in Bejing or anywhere else in the ROC? My guess is no. Other hardware filters are in place.
"Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair" - George Washington
Now, if the UN were to wrest control of the internet from the US, they could allow China to handle its operations.
After all, they're already running their own network quite efficiently, and with no censorship whatsoever.
I mean, really...this guy comes out to the U.N. with a comment he just cannot later deny. What else could happen other than this becoming a huge deal with dozens of more reports citing examples of how their filtering works. I don't understand how this guy actually thinks he could get away with such a thing!?
wake up in the morning... mount coffee/
I hereby dub this clown Bejing Bob.
Zagreus sits inside your head, Zagreus lives among the dead, Zagreus sees you in your bed and eats you in your sleep.
Just like Tibet has always been a part of China, but was momentarily mislead by the dangerous oppression of the Dalai Lama, until the people of Tibet rose up with the welcomed support of their Chinese brothers in a glorious revolution to overthrow their Buddhist oppressors and rejoin their traditional homeland.
Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
and I tested this out. Searching for "Tiananmen square" yields plenty of results, but 90% of them weren't accessible. I never had any other "connection problems" other times I was on the web.
Despite the fact that many outside of China know that it indeed does exist, this piece of news is more likely intended for those within China.
No kidding. I've met people recently from China and they don't know where we all get off on these things. They claim there are any number of small newspapers and such all over the place. They also think we tend to make a bigger deal of things than we ought and their country is just fine thank you very much.
Of course, if you grew up never knowing otherwise or thinking outside the box someone has constructed around you, you may be so indoctrinated. Same way Brits appear indoctrinated that they must read in the Sun or News of the World what trollop David Beckham is frollicking around Spain with or Americans feel the overwhelming urge to tell others how they ought to live and behave.
Those friends and colleagues listening to the BBC webcast, since we don't know otherwise, may be checking for new words or topics they need to add to their filters.
However you shake it up, China is in for a bit of adjustment when the 2008 Olympics bring people from all over the world into China where they will be expecting access to news and media as they had at home. Perhaps China has already thought of this and is constructing exclusion zones...
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
1. go to http://images.google.cn/images?q=tiananmen
2. look at the bottom left of the page, there's a string of chinese characters
3. use google language tools to translate that string.
4. it says: "According to local laws, regulations, and policies, some search results are not shown."
5. indeed, search for "tiananmen" in http://images.google.com/images?q=tiananmen and compare
no censorship! just local laws, regulations, and policies. some results are not shown, big deal.
In China, we don't have a "great" wall blocking our border. Sometimes we have trouble navigating the difficult terrain or sometimes see inaccurate satellite photos. But that's a different problem.
The PRoC government doesn't censor the internet. The private sector companies does it for them, "voluntary."
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Tien Anmen Google Images
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
True enough. Perhaps the original poster's point was that Chavez would go around invading countries and killing people, if he only had access to a mega army. He and Bush being kindred spirits and all.
In any case, take care not to equate 'invasion' with 'immoral'. An invasion can be moral, depending on who the target is and what the invader's goals and methods are.
FATMOUSE + YOU = FATMOUSE
I'm sure I don't know why people say this kind of thing.
If I were from China, I would probably be sure that I didn't know too.
Additionally, the United States isn't "technically" a democracy either... It's a republic. (In a true democracy, the citizens vote on everything. In a republic, representatives are elected to vote on the issues.)
Communism and democracy (and even republics) are NOT mutually exclusive. Communism and capitalism should be mutually exclusive however. Communism will never properly work while money exists. The aberrations that exist today that are referred to as communist are actually far from it.
The form of government in the US is actually approaching the status of an oligarchy or aristocracy, especially with the amount of power that corporations hold over the elected officials (Let's face it, if you don't have the support of a few corporations and are not independently wealthy, it is highly unlikely that your message will reach the people who would vote for you.)
The bottom of the page says something to the effect of "We are limiting the results of this search to comply with local laws" (apologies for inexact translation -- I can only read Chinese by way of Japanese).
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
After 9/11 I was dating a girl from the Mainland. She had been in the states for a few years and still had a really positive view of her homeland. One night we were watching one of the tributes to the heroes of that day (she was really into that stuff) and they showed a quick summary of history for the last 25 years. As it was going on they showed the protest in Tienamen square and the student confronting the tank and then being... well you know.
She had never seen it.
She had no idea that had ever happened.
It's hard to put into words how sad she became and the rage that immediately followed towards her homeland. There's a lot governments are good at repressing things in most any country from public knowledge, but the ability to completely hide something from your people that the rest of the world knows about? That's just criminal.
--- I do not moderate.
Offtopic> Does anyone else see CN and think 'Choatic Neutral?'
China's not evil.
They play Chaotic Neutral so the paladin in the party with detect evil won't beat them up.
Ok...I'm a geek.
And I'm single.
"Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
First open Baidupedia ( a Chinese wikipedia clone): http://baike.baidu.com/
Then try to search on some censored word like: (falun gong)
You should now get a "Connection reset by peer" message
Now you won't be able to access any page on that server for at least 30 minutes.Erik Dalén
Just as Bush/Cheney "don't torture" ?
The difference is we know that's a lie, and pointing out that it's a lie won't get you thrown in prison.
How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
Best quote from the Chinese gov't official:
...
"Some people say that there are journalists in China that have been arrested. We have hundreds of journalists in China, and some of them have legal problems. It has nothing to do with freedom of expression."
Yeah, I'd say being imprisoned is a pretty big legal problem
-ryry
To see for yourself, try out: http://www.linkwan.com/vr2/#world Click the Beijing, China location. It will do a traceroute to the website of your choice, if it is reachable from China of course! (It is a java app, warning)
For example, for www.nationalpost.com (Canadian news paper):
"www.nationalpost.com was found in 25 hops. But problems starting at hop 9 in network "CHINANET backbone network" are causing IP Packets to be dropped"
Others similarly unreachable:
www.cbc.ca (canadian broadcasting corporation)
www.freetibet.com (funnily enough just a domain squatter)
etc.
Some that work :)
www.china.com
www.xinhuanet.com (official state news agency of China)
Anyway, I found out about this when my webhost managed to get a block of their IPs banned, which prevented my hosted site (completely unrelated to the site they wanted to be banned) from being seen by my friends in mainland China since the webhost used virtual hosting to share IPs.
In any case, take care not to equate 'invasion' with 'immoral'. An invasion can be moral, depending on who the target is and what the invader's goals and methods are.
I must tactfully disagree. The only wars I believe have moral justification were nations coming to the defense of another nation being invaded. Example, liberating France during WWII. If only we'd started earlier before they got to France, but that's another matter.
In every case I can think of, an invading army is just a misuse of power.
Got Apathy?
I happened to work at a company who's primary mission was to liberate the Chinese from their firewall. I believe the motivation was to encourage promote democracy through free speech. It was backed by some pretty influential agencies. Our products worked using a special blend of encryption and peer-to-peer redirection to provide anonymous Internet access.
Using our software: every site in China works as expected. Without our software: all censored sites are blocked.
To say the great firewall doesn't exist is an outright lie.
There are two great books on dystopias: 1984 and Brave New World. In 1984 the government controlled all information. People weren't allowed to know what was going on.
In Brave New World the government was much more subtle. With the use of drugs, orgies, and entertainment the government made it so nobody cared about what was going on.
To control a population you use fear and apathy. Now the fact that the West uses apathy to control its population more than the Chinese who use fear more, doesn't mean we aren't being controlled. As the middle class grows in China they will become more apathetic and the Ruling class won't need to use as much fear to keep the population in line.
The US is no better or worse than the Chinese government. The US is so apathetic that there are no student uprisings for the government to suppress. Now Iraq, on the other hand... well compare what you see on You tube to what you see on CNN and Fox News. Yes, they are allowed to report on Tienanmen-level events in Iraq, but they don't. Most people just don't want to see that, so the media doesn't show it.
Apathy.