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Is Computer Science Still Worth It?
prostoalex writes "Is it a good idea to go into Computer Science? Yes, there are certainly pending labor shortages as Indian companies outsource to the United States, but speakers of Stanford Computer Forum generally agree that it's a good career choice. From the article: 'To ensure job security, students must learn business, communication and interpersonal skills, Vardi recommended. The personal touch will become as important as technological expertise, he said. "There are jobs galore," agreed Suzanne Bigas, assistant director of the Stanford Computer Forum.'"
It's great being a CS degree holder. You can sometimes get flexible working hours, decent benefits, and an ungodly low level of sunlight in the year. Given the carcinogenic effects of solar radiation these days, coupled with toxins in diet softdrinks, it's probably best that white collar workers live and work indoors though.
Work for talented programmers will never end. But work for programmers in general will not be as common in the coming years when everyone and their dog can make a website on My Space.
Oh You POS
Is studying philosophy worth it?
Yes, if you love it.
its more of the fact how much you stay up-to date, look at mu aunt, she has a degree in Computer Science, and yet she is still working at the same place for the last 25 years, i dont think she can even get a job now of days, the lession of this story is ALWAYS STAY UP-TO DATE When you work with any trade
If you depend on private industry- job security to these idiots means 2 years and you're out searching again. So what if there is plenty of opportunity if you never vest into your vacation time, let alone any other benefits? So do what I did- tell private industry to go learn to program their own computers and join government instead- where at least you can be assured you'll have a job tomorrow.
After 2001, I'll never trust the stock market or private industry ever again. Driving a truck is better than doing IT work for idiots.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Yeah, it's still good, you just have to add that twist. Biology seems to be popular these days, business, marketing, others like that sure are helpful. Straight computer science? Well, you'll probably be just a code monkey. Learn statistics if math is your thing, we're always looking for people who can turn numbers into useful statistics, but program it to make it flexible. You don't have to have a double major, not that that ever hurts, but a minor or even a few electives.
VoIP stuff seems to be a big thing, especially in developing countries(ever wanted to travel?), learn codecs, learn how to program codecs, learn how to hack Asterisk and SipX and some of ht eothers, play with Asterisk@Home.
Oh, this isn't an Ask Slashdot? Sure looks like one.
You confuse computer science with computer programming.
That is like confusing music theory with music composition, something I would hope you would be aware of.
Computer science deals with algorithms, complexity notation, predicate calculus, proofs, and grammars, most of which you will not pick up by just being a programmer.
GPL Deconstructed
I think there's always room for good people in CS. If you're a type who goes to Stanford/MIT/others and gets a degree in CS because you love learning about computational processes and have a natural drive and curiousty, my guess is that there are plenty of firms willing to hire you.
If, on the other hand, you want to learn CS to get a 'good job' after school, and end up going to a second-rate university where they teach you specific software instead of abstract ideas, you might not have such a good future after college.
I'm sure both types of students attend all universities CS departments, don't get me wrong. I think your attitude going into it is what matters most, if you love CS and work hard, I bet you'll be just fine. If possible, don't choose your major based on what's in fashion, do what you want.
Pls stop confusing Computer Science ie. a science of computing ( just as Physics, Astronomy, Chemistry, Geology are sciences of their respective disciplines ) with IT ie. Information Technology, a trade with fluctuating job prospects.
eg. The real-estate situation in the US is currently a bust - doesn't mean you should rethink becoming an architect, which is a seriously long-term proposition. However, you SHOULD rethink applying for a real-estate broker's license, since short-term is your concern.
You know, these "interpersonal" skills don't exist in a vacuum.
For some reason those "several candidates" you thought were good had managed to survive at their previous jobs long enough to become senior DBA's.
Before you blame other people for the problems meeting your standards, re-examine your standards and see if you understand the situation.
Particularly if you're suggesting that a business degree is more important that a computer science degree. That indicates that you don't understand the technological side of the issue. Just because someone does not agree with you does not mean that they're wrong.
Do you want a senior DBA or do you want a business analyst? Or do you want both for the price of one?
Or you cool go the IT in health care route...
That's really true of most degrees, nevertheless, the structure of a formal academic environment helps many people to maintain the discipline to do it, often provides access to skilled instructors that make gaining understanding easier, generally increases the diversity of equipment and resources you have access to in the learning process, may, as a degree is something people often take note of, increase the material reward you get from it, and may make you eligible for additional financial assistance (which may or may not make up for the additional cost) and other benefits.
Whether those benefits are worthwhile for any particular person interested in getting an understanding of the field will, of course, vary from person to person.
As a professional software programmer for over 20 years, I'd advise anyone who wishes to still be programming professionally in their 50's to spend a summer selling used cars. Being able to sell yourself will be much more important in the later years of your career than your technical knowledge will be.
I'm tired of {system-,network-,db-} administration, programming, and every other trade skill getting equated with Computer Science. CS is a branch of theoretical mathematics and has very little to do with anything you can sit in front of, type into, click on, or reboot. And I don't mean this as a (serious) troll. I just hate to see the term misused, much like engineers cringe when they hear the building maintenance staff referred to as 'engineers', as in "we'll have an engineer bring some buckets up to put under that leak in the roof."
/End of Friendly Math Snob Rant
I have found there are just two ways to go.
It all comes down to livin' fast or dyin' slow. -REK, Jr.
- You got a poor quality degree (either from an institution with no reputation, or a low 2.2 or lower classification).
- You haven't done anything interesting with your time at university (join / run any student societies, etc).
- You haven't taken the opportunity to get any work experience (most universities run summer placement programmes, if you can be bothered to sign up).
You get out of university what you put into it. If you're just there to get a piece of paper, you will just get a piece of paper and it won't be much use to you.I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Get a degree in CompSci if you find that kind of problem interesting, and you'll spend three years having fun. Once you have the degree, you can do pretty much whatever you want with it.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Is this supposed to suggest that we're somehow "done" with computer science? Application is great and all, but it has basis in constantly evolving theory, just like in any basic science.
Don't be fooled. Application is important, but try doing your physics homework without understanding the underlying theory and see how far you get. If you want to be respected in the industry, and if you want to find a lifetime in computer technology fulfilling, get a degree in computer science.
If your career aspiration is "high paid code monkey," then ignore this post.
Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
"Seriously, until IT has its own professional body that REQUIRES IT workers to be qualified/certificed in the same way as other professionals, its a career to steer clear of." Unless you graduate from a non-ACM acreditted school, CS does have a professional body that does require university graduates to be qualified/certified by taking certain courses and passing a field entrance exam that is just like any other engineering field..
A career is going to take up the bulk of your time for the bulk of your life. You damn well better like what you do. If you do, if you really enjoy thinking about CS problems, then do it. You'll have energy and passion, which usually mix with experience to form competence, and that leads to money.
Everyone told me not to go into CS, that it was dead, when I graduated from High School in 1992. When I got my CS Degree in 1996, everyone was scrambling to get into this dot-com thing. Then, four years later, everyone was getting out again. Don't make career decisions based on fashions and trends like this.
If what you enjoy is actually just making money, and that's a perfectly fine thing to enjoy (if not really geeky), go into business. Minor in CS, and then become a project manager with an aspiration of management. Lots of room for business people, particularly ones who actually can understand the technology, and they get paid well too.
If you just want to be lazy, and do the minimal work to get the maximal money - forget about it. You'll be mediocre at whatever you do. If you're lucky, you can get a soul-crushing job, blend into the background, and collect a paycheck. Soul-crushing CS work pays better than average, but damn, you've made a serious mistake if you're going this route.
I'll reiterate the formula, even though it's obvious: Passion leads to Competence leads to Money. It's very hard to be competent at something you don't care about, and the odds of making money if you're not competent go way down. Some passions are harder to find regular work in than others, but if that's what you want, that's what you'll be best at, so go for it. There's almost nothing as awful as being bad at your job.
-- Kate
How can you say that with such assurance? It seems to me that one can be good at both of these skills if they work on developing them both. Why do you think someone could have one of these skills max?
Time. Somebody who is good at interpersonal skills has to spend a *HUGE* amount of time developing and maintaining those skills- time spent at parties and at bars and in social situations. Without that time spent, any human being's interpersonal skills will degrade- to the point that we consider a prisoner kept in solitary for a mere three weeks to be insane.
Likewise on the DBA side- time. It takes a HUGE amount of time to gain and maintain computer skills- starting as a teenager working on the computer in your parent's basement instead of going on dates, clear up to the guy who reads every word of the SQL user groups to keep up on the latest changes to the language in the five major dialects.
A SENIOR DBA is going to need to be the later, not the former. There are only 168 hours in the week.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
All this from a "business alliance"? Wow, I'd have never expected that....
~
So if by crappy you mean design, I don't think a degree in computer science will help. If you mean crappy as in functionality, a degree in computer science might help.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. ~Albert Einstein
And, believe it or not, diversity in CS is on the rise; it isn't a white boys' club any more.
What does that have to do with anything?
Then perhaps you need to jettison your ego; you don't seem to have the CV to back it up.
You do seem to be in a catch-22, I am guessing the parent was right by saying your qualification was below average. You can't get a graduate job, which expects a good degree but no experience, but you can't get a normal job which expects experience, but not necessarily a hot qualification.
Your only option is to start bagging experience pro bono. Try asking for work experience, for free, at companies. Expand your own horizons and skills while you are doing it; I learnt Ruby for kicks a couple of weeks ago, and it's something I can put on the application form.
Having graduated from Bristol Uni this year, none of my friends have had any difficulty getting jobs (if they wanted them). The jobs are out there, you just have to look harder and/or make more concessions I think.
Excellent post. I'm studying Computing and IT at the University of Surrey, where over 90% of graduates get a job a year after graduating. It's one of the best universities in the country for Computing graduate employment. The main reason for this is that they run a professional training year which is a massive boost to your employability. If you can't get a computing job in the UK, blame yourself or your uni, not the subject itself, because there's plenty of jobs out there.
My point is, whether you know Computer Science or not, if you don't have proof (read college education) that this stuff was at least presented to you properly, odds are that you'll have a tough time finding someone willing to pay you... Big companies have so much overhead when it comes to hiring people, that they'll usually just throw out any resume that doesn't say "degree"
Often true, but not always. If you know your stuff and you prove it in other ways, the offers can come flooding in. Smart companies often employ people based on their open source contributions, for example, and pay as well as, if not better, than generic companies sifting through resumes. From the small set of people I know, the smartest are always hired because they're known in their community and the quality of their work is obvious, not because they sent off a resume. Basically, smart people don't need resumes, they have their reputation.
The biggest problems in the CS industry have come from people trying to get into it for the money. If you really love programming, then do it. If you don't, then go somewhere else. It's always been a feast-to-famine line of work, and people who jump into it during feast times just bring it crashing back down more quickly (and more harshly). In short, you're setting yourself up to fail if you're getting into it for the money, and you're dragging the rest of us down with you.
Most people who are in it for the money don't excel at it anyway. If your heart isn't in it, you won't be staying up late almost every night learning new things just because you love doing it. Even if you're exceptionally quick, that puts you at a bit of a disadvantage. Just click on my web site if you want to see the kinds of things we like to do with our spare time. ;-)