VR Cures Amputees' Phantom Limb Pain

An anonymous reader writes, "Scientists have developed a virtual world like Second Life where real-life amputees have their limbs restored. The experience can cure patients of the perception of pain in their missing limbs. From the article: 'The machine is designed to combat phantom limb pain (PLP) — a sensation of pain experienced by an amputee that appears to originate in the missing limb. Intriguingly, researchers have discovered that if a person's brain can be tricked into believing they can see and move a "phantom limb," this motion reduces the perception of pain in PLP.' The graphics used by the computer look very crude, almost comically so, but apparently the system works."

Comments

If this really works...

[dada21]

...what kind of VR would they use for John Bobbitt, and would the pro-family values conservatives approve of that form of medical "service?"

Re:If this really works...

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy got his dick back.

Re:If this really works...

[Fozzyuw]

...what kind of VR would they use for John Bobbitt

The only thing that popped into my mind is... why is Bobbitt the first thing on your mind, to associate it with this article?

Re:If this really works...

[davidsyes]

Something graphic. Maybe even with a GUI. But, will he be able to "wiggle it"? Nevertheless, it would still be software, not hardware. And, the virus, even the Trojan, would be virtual. Now the worms... those might scare him.

But, if he hooks up to the Internets, he might be palmed... ummm pawned...

(Captcha: backfill)

Re:If this really works...

[HeroreV]

He was even in a few pornos, putting it to work.

Re:If this really works...

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Actually, he didn't put it to work.. because he couldn't get it up.

visualization

[lawpoop]

"...the graphics used by the computer look very crude, almost comically so, but apparently the system works."

Could this also be accomplished by hypnosis and visualization? If useful, that would reduce the cost -- namely the expensive electronics.

Re:visualization

[Shawn is an Asshole]

Really. I'm sure hypnosis could fix the problem and be much cheaper. Hell, the BanishPain file at Warp My Mind (NOT WORK SAFE) should do the trick. Though a live hypnotist could do the job more effectively. It's hard to go into trance against a file unless you're very susceptible.

Hypnosis is really powerful, and can also be very fun... Just take a look at the "Success Stories" on the forum at that site.

Re:visualization

[Anonymous Coward]

Infact I recently saw a program on this very subject where just a box with a mirror in it worked. Talk about inexpensive solution.

Re:visualization

[Azarael]

The same results have been acheived using the magic of.. a mirror.
Amputee is sat down at a table with a mirror in front of them so they can see a reflection of their existing arm. By seeing the reflection of the other arm, they can 'trick' their brains into thinking that a phantom limb twisted in an uncomforable position has moved.
Obviously won't work if they have lost both of a pair of limbs though.

Re:visualization

[kfg]

Could this also be accomplished by hypnosis and visualization?

They tried that first. Works sort of, for some people. About as well as it does for sea sickness, another area where unpleasant feelings are caused by a discontinuity in what the brain "knows" and what it "sees" ( your ear "sees" you are in motion, your eyes see you are not. This does not compute and smoke pours out of your ears; and your dinner out of your stomach).

The problem is one of creating a harmonic whole of the input of all the senses. You either need to shut down the "offending" sense, or supply it with input that compliments the input to the other senses.

This particular technique focuses on supplying complimentary input. As noted elsewhere in the thread, yes, this can be done without the expensive electronics.

Simply use the old standbys of the illusionist; smoke and mirrors.

Of course mirrors are not free, electronics are getting cheaper; and many of the necessary componants of the system are already found in people's homes these days (just as for mirrors. Just because you take them for granted does not mean they are not technology).

There's also the fact that people likely find this thing fun. Something not to be overlooked in any therapy strategy, even if it costs a few extra bucks.

KFG

Re:visualization

[AntiNeutrino]

This (mirror approach) is explained in V. S. Ramachandran's book "Phantoms in the Brain".
I highly recommend this book to anyone who has ever enjoyed books by Oliver Sachs or is just generally curious about the brain.

Re:visualization

[Puff of Logic]

Actually, it can be done with a cardboard box and a mirror. If I recall correctly, V.S. Ramachandran detailed performing precisely the same technique in his book Phantoms of the Brain for patients who had a phantom hand that was painfully clenched into a tight fist.

In essence, he had the box and the mirror positioned such that the patient would insert his good arm into the box and have the amputated arm stump occluded. Obviously, a reflected image of the unamputated limb would appear in the mirror to the patient, who was then instructed to position the "phantom limb" such that it superimposed the mirror image. This done, the patient was then instructed to repeatedly clench and declench both hands.

Obviously only one hand was real, but the correlation between what the brain felt was happening and what the eyes reported was happening was sufficient to fool the brain into believing that the phantom fist had been unclenched and thus the phantom limb pain was eliminated. I believe that Ramachandran reported excellent success with this ingenious medical hack.

Re:visualization

[Anonymous Coward]

Similar tests with mirrors and moving both arms/legs at the same time have worked. Likely it's just an affect in the brain of perceving motion when attempting to move.

Re:visualization

[cp.tar]

They tried that first. Works sort of, for some people. About as well as it does for sea sickness, another area where unpleasant feelings are caused by a discontinuity in what the brain "knows" and what it "sees" ( your ear "sees" you are in motion, your eyes see you are not. This does not compute and smoke pours out of your ears; and your dinner out of your stomach).

That is supposed to be a poison-rejecting mechanism, actually - evidently, some poisons make you feel as if you were moving, although you're not; this is the mechanism which recognizes (or "recognizes") such behaviour and reacts accordingly - by forcing the poison out the same way it supposedly came in by.

Re:visualization

[kfg]

That is supposed to be a poison-rejecting mechanism. . .

And pain is an injury-rejecting mechanism.

KFG

Re:visualization

[meiao]

I've seen this done with a mirror. Worked well for an arm.

Mirrors in a Box

[MBCook]

I once saw something about this on TV years and years ago. People might feel a phantom limb with a fist grasped so tightly it hurt (like the fingernails in the palm and everything). It was supposed to be horrible (and I'm sure it was).

The report was on a doctor who had developed a box that the patient stuck their real arm in and using mirrors they could see both arms (obviously just a reflection). By having the patient put their "arms" in clenched and talking to them and having them relax them and thinking about unclenching the fist, it would work. The pain would go away because their brain "saw" that the first was unclenched where as before they couldn't see that. I don't know how long it worked, if it needed to be re-done every six months or whatever, but this isn't out of the blue.

Very interesting problem, phantom limb syndrome.

Re:Mirrors in a Box

[mendaliv]

Sounds like someone's trying to build a better mousetrap.

I can see very little to no advantage of this over the mirrors in a box method that you describe... the therapist speaking to the patient could be done with a recording, or with practice the patient could learn to accomplish this themselves through meditation. So the entire argument that this VR method is better because it can be done in the patient's home is largely invalid. A box with mirrors and a tape deck is going to be significantly cheaper than a VR headset, glove and computer.

The only advantage that I might entertain is that if the person is a multiple amputee (i.e., no arms or no legs or something like that), then maybe you could substitute movement from some other body part (i.e., head and neck, or facial twitches) to cause limb movement in the VR environment, where a series of mirrors would not permit this.

Re:Mirrors in a Box

[itchy92]

The doctor is V.S. Ramachandran, and his work is fascinating. His book on phantom limb syndrome and other psychological conditions is called _Phantoms_in_the_Brain_, and it's thoroughly enjoyable; an easy read (especially if you have no previous exposure to the field), but not so dumbed down as to insult your intelligence. He frequently uses very simple approaches to diagnosing and studying these cases.

His newer book is called _A_Brief_Tour_of_Human_Consciousness_, which deals with some of the same issues, but also introduces his more recent studies.

/Not a shill
//Just a fan of brain disorders
///that doesn't sound right

Re:Mirrors in a Box

[El Torico]

This is a very elegant solution - give the victim of phantom limb syndrome a phantom limb.

Re:Mirrors in a Box

[49152]

Sure with pure VR this may be nothing more than a better mousetrap.

However you could probably use augmented reality as an alternative. Augmented reality is where an 3D image (or VR) is overlayed on the real world. Today the equipment is a bit cumbersome to carry around, but this will probably be solved in the not so distant future (if not already, been a while since I worked with this).

Surely a pair of eyeglasses that projects the fake image of your missing limb directly into your eyes beats carrying around your "mirrors in a box" ;-)

So this method as described in itself might just be "a better mousetrap". But it also proves that 3D/VR is a viable substitution for the old mirror trick, and that my friend is what is really interesting.

Re:Mirrors in a Box

[Cyberax]

VR imitation may be more convincing.

My uncle has lost his hand in traffic accident and had phantom pains. He used such trick: he stood before the mirror, closed one eye and slowly unclenched fist of his other hand. That was enough to trick brain, but this technique stopped working after some time (so he had to take painkillers for some time).

VR imitation might help when simple techniques don't work.

Re:Mirrors in a Box

[chrissam]

I discovered V.S. Ramachandran through the BBC Reith Lectures of 2003, available in a RealAudio stream. It's a fascinating lecture series, worth listening too just for Ramachandran's great rolled RRRs.

2nd life

[glen]

The graphics used by the computer look very crude, almost comically so...

Wow, it really is like second life.

How available is this?

[waif69]

I RTFA, and saw no reference to availability. This doesn't seem to be very expensive, in medical cost comparatively. Anyone have experience with this technology, here?

Re:How available is this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone have experience with this technology, here?

I do. I lost both of my hands in a horrific boating accident a few years ago. Since undergoing this treatment, I can "trick" my mind into thinking that I'm able to post inane comments to Slashdot like I used to back in the good old days.

Ugly

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is VR always so ugly? I understand that the purpose of this tool is medical and not entertainment, but with all the triangles that modern graphics hardware is able to push, is there really any excuse for ten year old visuals? Why not start with a free graphics engine (CrystalSpace, or even Quake2) as a base, and then add support for the VR interface? It'd shorten development time (assuming they built what they're using now from scratch) and result in a higher quality product.

Any VR experts care to comment?

A Scratch for the Itch

[Jamu]

This is good news for anyone that suffers from phantom limb pain.

Re:A Scratch for the Itch

[gEvil (beta)]

This is good news for anyone that suffers from phantom limb pain.

Cool! Does it work with my lapboard?

In some cases you don't even need virtual reality

[Anonymous Coward]

I read in a popular science type book by VS Ramachandran that some people can be tricked into recovering from phantom pain simply by looking at a mirror that gives them the appearence that their limb is still there. Near verbatim what he says is, "well, we could've built a big expensive virtual reality device to try this... but we decided to go with something cheaper: mirrors". This was, supposedly, how scientists figured out that the phantom limbs could be addressed by visually "fooling" the brain.

The wikipedia article on this mirror device is here.

Mirrors...

[SevenHands]

I seem to recall a successful experiment in which a set of mirrors were setup in certain angles in a tabletop apparatus. Hand/Arm amputees would position their remaining limb on the table beside this apparatus. What they would see when looking at the table in front of them would be a mirror representation of their remaining limb. The amputees would then rate their phantom limb pain levels and results showed that the mirrored image of their existing appendage greatly reduced the pain. I see this research as an extension of this. If the brain is fooled into believing that the missing limb is actually there, then too the brain, the limb just might be there. Perception is reality in these instance.

Cool, but...

[TheSHAD0W]

...Can we throw in some cacodemons and a grenade launcher to spice up the rehab sessions?

Rewards of Better Technology

[olyar]

I would imagine that this type of research is made much easier by the fact that VR isn't a huge, expensive process any more, but is becoming more of an easily done "off the shelf" process.

So see? Video games do have some positive side.

what about double amputees?

[maddogsparky]

Lots of posters are mentioning the mirror trick. Unfortunately, that won't work with some double amputees (i.e. portions of both arms or both legs amputated). This seems like it might help in these cases if they have some way to provide input corresponding to the phantom limb.

Re:what about double amputees?

[Flopy]

How about two mirrors then?
Joking aside, I'm just wondering if the mirror trick won't confuse the person using it. For example, if the person clenches a fist, he sees it in both hands but is actually only clenching one...or it would probably feel it was clenching both, as a natural reflex or the like.

HeAdOn: VR

[RipTides9x]

VR: Attach it directly to your forehead
VR: Attach it directly to your forehead
VR: Attach it directly to your forehead

Now available without a prescription.

Re:HeAdOn: VR

[Phu5ion]

AH! I hate that commercial, it gives me a headache just thinking about it. Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go find my HeadOn.

Will it work for people...

[p00ked]

who lost their genitalia in an unfortunate smelting accident?

Re:Will it work for people...

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

If you have that kind of phantom limb pain, you'd never make it to the clinic.

Re:Will it work for people...

[p00ked]

but it used to be like a babys arm holding an apple, surely that counts.

This wouldn't have been a problem...

[Rude Turnip]

...if Master Billy Quizboy didn't fark up the experiment in the first place, that's all I'm saying.

Re:This wouldn't have been a problem...

[JudgeFurious]

Oh hey, did somebody lose an invisible..... Oh, I'm keeping this!

I wonder if this approach

[Anonymous Coward]

will work for phantom head pain.

What if...???

[Anonymous Coward]

What if the limb is still there and the person is experiencing this PLP. My father was in a motorcycle accident over 20 years ago and still has pretty severe phantom pain. All this talk about tricking yourself into thinking its there.... it really is there and he has this pain. In the wreck nerves were severed from the spine cutting off feeling from the elbow down, but he opt to keep the arm. Just hopefull something like this might help anyway.

Re:What if...???

[nido]

Donna Eden talks about treating phantom limb pain in Energy Medicine.

Unbearable Phantom Pain A good-looking man who had lost both of his legs in Vietnam was brought to me in a wheelchair. No one had been able to help with the pain at the end of where his right foot had been. He vividly recalled the scene of stepping on a land mine and watching the bones and flesh of his right foot explode into pieces. The pain he now had was massive. The sensations were so similar to the original shock that he could never get relief from the traumatic memories. The relentless pain also led to terrible nightmares. His left foor wasn't as painful. It sometimes itched, but it was a mild discomfort compared with the area of his right foot.

As he sat there with his friend, he cried and said, "The pain is so excruciating, and the way it keeps me tied to my past is so bad, that I sometimes think of taking a gun to my head." I could see the energy still there in both of his absent legs, and I could feel it with my hands. I followed the energy along his absent legs to the end of where his feet had been. It was palpable. My hand began to hurt terribly. I asked him if my hand was in the area of the worst pain, and it was. The most painful areas were at the sides of his feet, which happens to be at the end of the bladder meridian. I said to him, "This may sound crazy to you, but I believe I can hold some points in midair hwere your feet were and help you."

I moved my hands to the ends of his legs, where his feet had been, and held the points on the bladder meridian. As the two men watched thses strange conjurings, it must have seemed to them that I was just holding air. But I was not! I felt and saw the meridian lines as strongly as if his legs were still there. At first it was painful for him to have me touch the area of his absent right foot. After a couple of minutes, he reported that not only was the foot being relieved of the pain, but another chronic pain in his back, just above his waist, was also lifting. Interestingly, that area is also goverened by the bladder meridian.

His kidney and liver meridians were also involved, and I held those points as well. ... By the time I had finished holding his liver points, he was pain free. I showed the friend, who lived with him, how to hold points and which points to hold. The man and his friend never returned, but on my invitation they called me about once a month. The friend told me that after the session, the manbegan to lift out of his deep depression. While the phantom pain would return every now and then, they knew how to deal with it.

-pg 31-32

I'm sure someone will come along and scoff - "haha, meridians, quackery". Whatever. Western science has established that Accupuncture works well. Western science knows that bodies generate mild electric fields - never impulses, etc. Western science knows that there is electrical behavior when bones are broken, and has devices to apply electric fields to speed healing thereof. The body's energy systems are all closely associated with physical systems - each of the chakras corresponds with a gland: thymus, pituitary, etc. Energetic approaches to health really shouldn't be such a streach, but in a medical system dominated by the rockefeller drug cartel I'm not surprised that affordable approaches such as Mrs. Eden's are suppressed and ridiculed.

While Donna does not take clients anymore (she started teaching when demand for her services became too great), her senior teaching assistants are all quite capable. She has a list on her website.

Your father might benefit from Osteopathic manipulation too.

Re:What if...???

[RobertB-DC]

The body's energy systems are all closely associated with physical systems - each of the chakras corresponds with a gland: thymus, pituitary, etc.

Whatever. The important thing is that the cessation of phantom pain -- a sensation produced by the mind without input from the body -- is *real*. If gently rubbing thin air makes the mind decide the pain isn't there any more, great -- but that probably wouldn't work for me. But stick my arm in a box and give me a 3D simulation of it, and I bet you anything I'll be cured right away. Apparently, it's all about immersion in the experience.

For some reason, I'm put in mind of putting a knife under the bed, to cut the pain of childbirth. Seems like we're back to the best parts of 5,000-year-old medicine, right down to the leeches.

Re:What if...???

[Lord Ender]

Western science also knows that the placebo effect is real and works for some people, and that medical-sounding gibberish and quackery is often just extra packaging to the placebo pill.

The Phantom Menace

[Narril Duskwalker]

"The graphics used by the computer look very crude, almost comically so, but apparently the system works."

Seems like helping to battle this phantom menace would be a good project for ILM to get involved with. Just leave JarJar out of it this time ;)

Hypnosis?

[msimm]

Have you ever been hypnotized? I have. 1) The number of people likely to be responsive to hypnotic suggestion is relatively small 2) the number of people susceptible to a typical induced hypnotic state is relatively small.

Hypnosis seemed fascinating to me when I was young but when I had the opportunity to experience it (or rather, not) I found out that it isn't uncommon for people to not automagically achieve a hypnotic state.

Not that I'm trying to dismiss your idea altogether, just had an interesting experience with hypnosis.

What I'd find more interesting is visualization or (quasi-)mediation. A lot of the practices that hypno-therapists use are remarkably similar to meditation practices including the use of visualization technics that seemed to me fairly esoteric (white light, breathing through feet, etc).

Re:Hypnosis?

[lawpoop]

I have been hypnotized, I guess -- I saw a hypnotherapist and he talked me through a hypnotisation session. For me, it was a lot like drifting into a nap and having a really intense day-dream. I also practice meditation and visualization, and have tried various methods and techniques. Up until this post, I kind of thought that they were mostly identical, except visualization specifically engaged your visual imagination. Can you tell me what you see as the difference between all of these states?

I'm not saying it's easy to learn to hypnotize yourself, but here in America, we always seem to take the pill/device answer or anything that might require the slightest bit of effort, like changing your diet to lose weight. I think we could stand to learn some low-tech, somewhat laborous answers.

Re:Hypnosis?

[msimm]

I've been left with the distinct impression that hypnosis is the western answer to guided meditation and really is more a pseudo-science with a Barnum & Bailey air of mystery.

Honestly I don't see much difference myself, aside from the fact that western hypnosis seems to be a hodge-podge of tradition practices dressed up to be more palatable to modern science. Maybe its easier on the western constitution to say hypnotherapist then monk. It certainly sounds less new-agey, but I suspect there's more to meditation and culturally we are probably simply playing semantic games.

FWIW, while I was undergoing hypnotherapy my therapist did incorporation more contemporary tools such as subliminal sound and habit replacement (I was seeing the therapist to quite smoking). Not that I ever ended up achieving much of a suggestive state (smoked for about 5 years after).

Overall it was interesting and was nice to throw a little light on some of my misconceptions (the therapist became a good friend and we talked about his training and the results a bit).

But then...

[Quiet_Desperation]

...you jack out of the system, and your limb is gone again. Sounds kind of depressing. I think I'd rather just take an Advil. I mean, the *pain* is real so a pain killer should do something.

Re:But then...

[Anonymous Coward]

> I mean, the *pain* is real so a pain killer should do something.

I suffer from a severe braquial plexum damage, in which the nerves going to my arm are broken in a mostly unrepairable way. I can see my arm, but I can't feel it and it hurts like hell, with a kind of pain that is very similar in nature to the one that amputees suffer. It's interesting that seeing my arm does not reduce my pain, so I think that the technique mentioned in the article works because the feeling of _moving_ the missing limb.

In my case (and I think in amputees' too) pain is created by my brain but not because it receives a pain signal from the nerves (normal pain), but because it receives no signal a at all. This difference causes most pain killers not to work. When I was in the hospital because of the accident they tried all the way up to morphine with no results, and my case is not rare. I know of amputees with similar bad results.
What works for me is some sort of self-hypnosis I was taught, trying to get distracted, and sex. It's true, pain stops while having sex (receiving oral sex counts too).

The answer is to spit on it

[diersing]

VR? Blah

Don't they know the pain will go away if they spit on it.

Hope?

[ElBuf]

Does this mean that Second Life can cure users of their Phantom Sexual Attractiveness Pain?

itchy brain

[torbo]

... and a matching solution for the brainless. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/new s/news.html?in_article_id=410642

Mirrors VR Robotics

[Temuar Skylari]

I'm wondering if this could eventually be extended to people using their brains and nervous systems to control a robotic limb. Ridiculous expense aside, I'd think it would meet the "fools your brain into believing the limb is really there"-criteria that the mirror trick or this VR thing already fulfills, but with the added bonus of not having to lose the illusion when you take your hand out of the mirror box or turn off the VR.

I hear The Monarch's ordering one...

[Channard]

That'll teach the sod to nick his (Dr) Girlfriend.

Phantom Limb Sensation Is a Ton of Fun

[multiplexo]

Well, not really, the first thing I can remember from the day after my left leg was amputated (motorcycle v. pickup truck, pickup truck wins even if motorcycle has right of way) was an intense itching, like the worst case of athlete's foot ever, in the toes of my then newly up the chimney of a medical incinerator left foot. Over the next few months the phantom limb pains decreased in severity and frequency, although I still get them sometimes and they can leave me gasping for breath.

Neurologically this is kind of interesting and even somewhat cool. About 9 months after my leg was amputated I was out working in my yard clearing a drain during a rainstorm. I was standing in water up to mid calf and my right foot started to get cold because it was soaking wet. I kept mucking out the drain and then I noticed that my left foot, which is actually a cunningly crafted bit of carbon fiber from the folks at Otto Bock felt cold and wet too. It was the damnedest thing and it made me stop for a moment, it felt as if I had a left foot that was in a cold, thoroughly soaking wet sock inside of a thoroughly soaking wet boot. I finished mucking out the drain, went inside, changed into dry clothes and stuck my right foot into a tub of warm water. As my right foot warmed the sensation in my left foot gradually decreased. If I am wearing my prosthesis phantom limb pains feel as if they are coming from the ankle and/or foot of my left leg, if I'm not wearing the prosthesis they feel as if they are coming from the stump. Amputation, the gift that keeps on giving.

Doesn't surprise me...

[qazwart]

Dr. V.S. Ramachandran (a disciple of Dr. Sachs) reported something similar in his book Phantoms of the Brain back in 1999. He used mirrors to mirror the existing limb with the phantom limb. Dr. Ramachandran would then tell the patient to move both limbs together. When the patient moved the existing limb and saw the "phantom limb" also move, they could feel the phantom limb move out of the position that may have caused the pain.

It's an Excellent book, and is still in print.

Phantom Limb

[illegalcortex]

The machine worked so well that every molecule in his extremities was accelerated beyond the speed of light. There were two side effects. One - He could mess up a guy just by touching him. And two - He became a humorless dick!

Who cares about nice graphics !

[DarkWicked]

The graphics used by the computer look very crude, almost comically so

You don't get it, it's all about the gameplay ! The wiimote is... oh wait...

Old News

[Quantam]

This type of thing was done quite some time ago simply using a mirror box. The person only has one limb, but it appears as two, and the brain thinks the mirrored limb is real, and the phantom pain goes away.

what second life?

[shaobohou]

This doesn't even have the slightest connection to second life, their system is not online and second life is not VR , in fact the article only mentions lawnmower man.

I look forward to the day when not every other article has second life crowbarred into it.

What's the connection?

[Minwee]

The article makes no mention of Second Life, so I was wondering just where the anonymous submitter got that connection from.

Then I read his last sentence. "The graphics used by the computer look very crude, almost comically so, but apparently the system works."

Yeah, that's about right.

Maybe pain is not a real sensation but something

[Anonymous Coward]

your brain assigns to certain sensations. Like a damage control system. If you can trick you brain into relating sensations normally related to body damaging events onto non-damaging events your brain wouldn't need to assign pain. Maybe this explains why I can watch Brittney Spears sing although I don't like to just listen to her.

But the biggest question is

[Some_Llama]

Can it cure my penis envy?

Having my phallus drawn in huge proportions even in 16 or even 8bit should offer some relief... no?

I have a friend who is an amputee

[GuyFawkes]

he suffered a brachial plexus lesion after a motorcycle accident, and eventually opted for amputation some 3 years later.

luckily for him his wife is medically well qualified and teaches nursing, and well connected medically, and he is a determined sort of bloke.

"phantom pain" he told me it felt like his not present arm was dipped in hot chip fat, so eventually last year he ended up in an MRI scanner under a doctor who was researching this subject, and they discovered that the pain is in fact not phantom or imagined but quite real.

I'm not in the least medically qualified, but the impression I got was that when the BPL occured and the nerves were torn out of the spinal column, some of them were activated and sending "PAIN" messages, and what is happening now is even though those nerves are no longer there, the upstream spinal column nerves "remember" the last message and just keep sending it.

I would not suggest telling an amputee that the pain they are feeling is a figment of their imagination, they may well hit you with the remaining limb(s).

Re:I have a friend who is an amputee

[Anonymous Coward]

Could you please ask him who was his doctor?
I am interested in this and could search if he has published something already. Thank you.

I have a question

[tonycheese]

Why is there a random plug for Second Life in the middle of this article that has absolutely nothing to do with Second Life?

Holy Fuck -- An Intelligent Comment on Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

That is the most intellgent comment ever seen on slashdot. Seriously, in the past 8 years, I've never seen anything that demonstrates an IQ over 100, except your comment. I hope you can take the initiative to pursue that.

Gatling Gun

[Anonymous Coward]

I am missing my arm just below the elbow, having a gatling gun hanging off my arm in a game is far more appealing than virtually recreating my lost limb.

How many bits was the Atari 2600?

[tepples]

Having my phallus drawn in huge proportions even in 16 or even 8bit should offer some relief... no?

How many bits would Custer's Revenge count as?

Drugs?

[mr100percent]

I'm not a doctor or pharmacist, but don't we have drugs like Neurontin (Gabapentin) that decrease the sensation already? Aside from medication side effects, is this any better or effective?

Re:Drugs?

[kertong]

If you don't want to resort to drugs (as fun as they can be), there's a quick and interesting solution. For example, say you're missing your right arm and are feeling phantom pain. You can put your left arm into a box with the top cut open. To the right of the box is a mirror angled upwards, creating a mirror image of your left arm as your right.

Apparently, this tricks the brain, and supposedly relieves all phantom pain instantly. It's been a while since I read the book so I forget the details, but it's from "Phantoms in the Brain: Probing the Mysteries of the Human Mind". The book is a great read if you're interested in phantom limbs, and other weird brain / mind disorders. Fascinating.

Why you can still feel pain in a missing limb

[sir_montag]

Doctors used to think that if you cut the nerve to something, you wouldn't feel anything from that area because your brain wouldn't get a signal from that area.

As it turns out, it's nowhere near that simple. You can't just transect a nerve to make someone with a really damaged body stop feeling pain in that area, and for the same reason, amputees still get sensations from limbs that aren't there and nerves that aren't connected to anything.

The brain doesn't recognize pain based on polling a nerve for pain signals and determining whether there's pain if the nerve is being triggered or if it is not being triggered. Rather, it's a contextual thing. The brain recognizes a certain kind of amalgamation of signals as pain, and the lack of pain as a different collection of signals.

So if you just cut the nerve, it doesn't feel a lack of pain - without any signal telling it that there's no pain, it just tends to try and match what input it can to the signals it previously had from that limb. This results in all sorts of strange sensations in a limb you don't even have! A lot of times, the brain will try and model sensory information on the closest thing to the absent limb - if you're missing your right leg, it checks input from the left as a guide to what it should be feeling.

Doctors used to think people were crazy for feeling pain in limbs that they didn't have. Now they know better. And much of this knowledge was gained from experiments that involved amputating limbs and digits from monkeys, so don't let anyone tell you there's no point to animal testing (they used anesthesia, so it wasn't too bad for the monkey).

And the funny part is...

[Anonymous Coward]

from FTA...

RELATED LINKS
State of Play: Nintendo Wii
State of Play: PlayStation 3
Habbo Hotel: Renovation's what you need
Crave Talk: Is this the worst tech Christmas ever?
Middle Age crisis: Medieval II Total War

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Osseointegration - reduces phantom limb pain

[XB-70]

There is another option coming on line: Osseointegration. http://www.oandp.com/edge/issues/articles/2006-09_ 03.asp In two operations, the amputee has an inert titanium implant inserted into the bone of the stump and the wound is closed over. After six months, a second operation attaches a titanium bolt to the abutment. The bolt protrudes through the skin and the artificial limb is attached to it. See the article for details.

Please explain how the placebo effect works.

[nido]

I think it quite comical that "fools" explain away technology they don't understand with a phenomena they don't understand either.

All pills have placebo effects, even the ones that are more than just 'sugar'.

Re:Please explain how the placebo effect works.

[Lord Ender]

"This may sound crazy to you, but I believe I can hold some points in midair hwere your feet were and help you."

I understand physics enough that I can confidently say there was no physical change to this person's body caused by these actions. The quack performing the act could have held invisible body parts anywhere--could have sprinkled "magic pixie dust" on them--whatever. It doesn't matter what was done, as long as the person being "treated" thought it was doing something.

There is an evil preacher on TV in the US: Benny Hinn. He hits old ladies on the head, says "praise jesus," and tells them their cancer is cured. They think it is true. This is the same shit.

Spreading this person's name around makes you an accessory to this scam artist. You should be ashamed.

And about acupuncture: It is impossible to test that scientifically as it can not be performed in a double-blind test. It is at least possible that poking people affects the nervous system in a helpful way, but it seems more likely that the same placebo effect is at play, since puncture points are chosen based on obviously-nonsensical superstition. Your story, however, is complete and total BS.

"Placebo effect" does not mean we don't understand it. It means a person's brain is causing the physical change. Whether magic pixie dust, religious whack-jobs, quacks like your person, or sugar pills are what convinced the brain to effect this change is completely irrelevant.

Re:Please explain how the placebo effect works.

[nido]

quacks like your person

Rather presumptuous, don't you think? What do you know of Mrs. Eden's life work, other than the two pages I graciously typed up for the benefit some anonymous slashdotter's father? (who, I might add, has endured 20 years of "mainstream medicine's" failing to address his non-phantom limb problem.)

I understand physics enough that I can confidently say ...

ah yes, "physics". Would that be Newtonian physics? Newtonian physics + relativity? What about Quantum Mechanics? What happens to your understanding of physics when "the experts" discover new principles and "laws", expanding their world of possibility? Do you keep yourself limited to materialist physics, or do you expand your world of possibility to include things which were previously impossible?

I have personally benefited from both the modalities I suggested, even though I initially did not 'believe' in such non-materialist possiblities. My experience with Mrs. Eden's system of Energy Medicine is such that I consider it a valid discipline, even though its effects are as yet unexplained by mainstream science.

I just read Modern Medicine's Sleight of Hand a day or two ago... Makes me wonder about the validity of "double-blind tests" for evaluating treatment options. Empiricism should really be the guiding philosophy for the medical sciences, rather than pharmacology.

Humans are individuals, and every health problem is unique. While in some cases drugs are an appropriate treatment option, they frequently don't work. Drugs are mostly for the "Screwing of the Average Man" (to borrow the title of Mr. Hapgood's book), by charging for modern snake-oil that does little to address the underlying cause[s] of a health problem.

Here's a paragraph from a different book, just for you:

Chapter XII

Mediumship -- Mrs. Leonard (1)

We have seen that one factor in particular seems to encourage the emergence of /psi/. That is faith of some kind in something. Mrs. Curran implicitly believed that Patience Worth was the disembodied spirit she claimed to be. In both the Holland and Willett scripts the purported Myers and his friends insisted that the automatists' belief in their reality immensely increased their powers to communicate. Conversely, hostility and doubt on the part of any one involved, including the investigator, is water to flame, even in the case of straightforward experimental ESP between the living.

Beyond the Reach of Sense: An Inquiry into Extra-Sensory Perception, pg 95 (emphasis added)

The jury's definitely in on this one. People who are "hostile" to subtle energies fail to find evidence thereof, whereas people who are open to the possibility (not "true believers", just "open") frequently are successful beyond their wildest dreams.

Odd that I would have run across such an appropriate quote tonight. I just found Ms. Heywood's book this week at the thrift shop [excellent source for all kinds of used books], and opened it for the first time tonight. (I like to start in the middle...) I wonder if someone's trying to get through to you. :) I'm not a medium, so I can't say. Maybe you should look into it yourself.