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Corporate Propaganda Still On the News

mofomojo writes, "Democracy Now! reports that a new study by the Center for Media and Democracy says Americans are still being shown corporate public relations videos disguised as news reports on newscasts across the country. In April, the Center identified 77 stations using Video News Releases in their newscasts; the findings led to an investigation by the Federal Communications Commission. A followup study has found that 10 of those stations are still airing VNRs today, for a new total of 46 stations in 22 states." From the article: "Most of the VNRs have aired on stations owned by large media conglomerates such as News Corp., Tribune, and Disney. They've also been sponsored by some of the country's biggest corporations including General Motors, GlaxoSmithKline, and Allstate Insurance."

275 comments

  1. In a related story by diersing · · Score: 1

    Microsoft survey say's they are best, film at 11.

    1. Re:In a related story by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Surely you mean "film at 11, brought to you by [insert name of sponsor here]"?

      --
      Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
    2. Re:In a related story by aplusjimages · · Score: 0

      Did I just go through a time portal? "film at 11"? What stations still shoot on film? What stations still say film at 11?

      --
      Can I bum a sig?
  2. Are these like Slashvertisments? by Timesprout · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Adverts disguised as stories?

    --
    Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
    What truth?
    There is no dupe
    1. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by Otter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For that matter, what is this story except a regurgitated press release from one of "the country's biggest" political non-profits?

    2. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OMG, TFA is a VNR!

      Which it actually was... a PR piece by a decidedly biased website with a grandiose and neutral-sounding name.

      As to media in general, no wonder I prefer BBC News. They're the only one I can trust to at least try to uphold some kind of journalistic integrity. Sure others do too, but I can't tell which. (And have no time to check up on every story I see.) Any other recommendations? :)

    3. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by Gregory+Cox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, but these are worse.

      Slashdot editors don't check the affiliations of people who submit stories, and allow anonymous submissions, so Slashvertisements are possible. However, I don't think anyone expects anything different. The submitters are named, or the story starts "An anonymous reader writes...", and readers are left to draw their own conclusions about any potential bias.

      On the other hand, news channels don't take submissions from just anyone when they make news stories. They're supposed to be deciding what to air themselves, with the aim of informing their viewers. If they use a corporate PR video that looks like a news report, they ought to know the source; the problem is when they deliberately fail to declare who made it, as this means that they are disguising advertisements as news.

      --
      If you all Google Slashdot, will it Slashdot Google?
    4. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by LilGuy · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid the BBC has as many dirty tricks up their sleeve as anyone... they just choose to be more conservative with how and when they use them. I trust no major media company whatsoever.

      --

      You're nothing; like me.
    5. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by JabberWokky · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Most news is wire stories and press releases. That it is expected to be any different for television news is a bizarre concept.

      --
      Evan

      --
      "$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
    6. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by armareum · · Score: 0

      I trust Channel 4 News (UK) - http://www.channel4.co.uk/news.

      --
      Is this a rhetorical question?
    7. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by Straif · · Score: 1

      BBC has about as much journalistic integrity as Entertainment Tonight, they just have better sounding accents.

      Not to be too harsh but it just really gets me when people try to point to the BBC as a beacon of truth when by their own admission they pander to about every special interest group out there. They've also been fighting a freedom of information act request for the release of their own internal review of their Middle East coverage; most suspect because it implies that they have been highly biased against Israel.

      It's never good to rely on one new source for your information.

      --
      Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
    8. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by hickory-smoked · · Score: 1

      And of course, even Slashvertisements have unfiltered comments where people are free to question the validity and bias of the posting.

      If they were truly run like VNRs, every Slashvert would come with a few dozen pre-screened writers crowing about how Clean Coal Technology (TM) really is the solution to all our environmental woes!

    9. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That it is EXPECTED is exactly why it's a problem. Sorry, but just because it isn't a surprise doesn't mean it shouldn't be stopped. Sheeple. At least if Big Brother is going to let corporate fuck me up the ass using public tax dollars I'm gonna protest - go ahead and lie there if you like it. Fact is, VNR's are illegal and every station who practices such knows they're breaking the law. They should ALL have their licenses revoked without exception. Yay democracy... again.

    10. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by makomk · · Score: 1
      Not to be too harsh but it just really gets me when people try to point to the BBC as a beacon of truth when by their own admission they pander to about every special interest group out there. They've also been fighting a freedom of information act request for the release of their own internal review of their Middle East coverage; most suspect because it implies that they have been highly biased against Israel.

      It's never good to rely on one new source for your information.

      Talking of bias, I still don't trust the Telegraph's reporting of BBC-related news; admittedly, since Conrad Black sold it, it seemed to lose some of the anti-BBC and pro-Israeli tendencies that it had when he was in charge, but I'd still rather have another source.
    11. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by krell · · Score: 1

      ".... and pro-Israeli tendencies that it had when he was in charge"

      You'd rather that the Telegraph were antisemitic?

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    12. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I think he's saying he'd rather see the Telegraph as less pro-Israel. I don't see what anti-semitism has to do with that.

    13. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by Straif · · Score: 1

      I can't comment on the Telegraph's bias, though it wouldn't surprise me that they're anti-BBC as they are competing news sources, but you don't have to share that bias to come to the same conclusions as the author of the linked article.

      The report they are fighting in court to prevent from being made public was essentially commissioned to determine if they were in fact bias against Israel in their Middle East coverage. That they are doing everything in their power to prevent the conclusions of that report from getting out would seem to imply that the results were not complimentary to them.

      --
      Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
    14. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by krell · · Score: 0

      Typically, those that aren't pro-Israel hate the place because it is "full of Jews". Antisemitism has everything to do with being anti-Israeli.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    15. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by CorSci81 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Alternatively, I could turn this around and say that typically people who aren't pro-Palestine hate the place because it's "full of Arabs".

      -OR-

      It could also be because you disagree with how Israel handles conflict with Palestinians and has nothing to do with them being Jewish. Just a thought before you run off accusing people of being anti- whatever.

    16. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Well just as long as you keep believing that with all your might you'll be able keep pretending that Israel can do no wrong and that and and all criticism of it is, by definition, unjustified slandering by racists. You'd might as well believe in the tooth fairy, but hey, if it makes you sleep easier at night...

    17. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by krell · · Score: 1

      Criticism of Israel is reasonable. What isn't there to criticize? The cuisine is nothing to write home about, and the weather is generally too hot and dry there. Denying that it has a right to resist, or defend itself, or fight back if invaded (as when Lebanon invaded earlier this year) is very reasonable unless you have a rabid hatred of the nations's people. Typically, the straw man of "Israel can do no wrong" first comes from those who don't think that Israel has a right to exist: the antisemites. I've never, ever seen any pro-Israel person claim "Israel can do no wrong".

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    18. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      But here, you KNOW exactly where it came from, without even trying... Not so on TV, where they don't bother to mention those little details, and present it as THEIR OWN unbiased story.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    19. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      (http://eastcoastwisdom.blogspot.com/)
      BBC has about as much journalistic integrity as Entertainment Tonight,

      I have a suspiscion that the East Coast you refer to in your blog title doesn't refer to the area between Dungeness and Flamburgh Head. (Look them up in an atlas.)

      their own admission [dailymail.co.uk]

              Ah, the second most fascist national paper in England. And a remarkably anti-(anything not further right than Generalissimo Franco) paper by international standards. Popularly known as the Daily Flail, for their obsession with reintroducing whipping for school kids and adults.
      information act request [telegraph.co.uk]

              And the most fascist national paper in England. The "Torygraph", as it is popularly known, from an old Irish word for "bandit".
              You certainly manage to find the small sectors of UK opinion that would support your prejudices. Perhaps you'd also like to peruse a UK political party's website too, so you can balance your opinions?

      for the release of their own internal review of their Middle East coverage; most suspect because it implies that they have been highly biased against Israel.

      "highly biased" meaning, I assume, "not swallowing the corporate propoganda of the Israeli government hook, line and sinker". Yep, right, got your level. Part of the problem, not part of the solution.
      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    20. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by ncstockguy · · Score: 1

      Big difference. In this case the news item is clearly attributed to the nonprofit group. Those fake news stories are passed off as being 'real' when they were in fact funded by corporations with an agenda. If the tv news reports were to say " we now present this story produced by a public relations firm working for Exxon Mobil" the actual ethical problem would go away. of course most news organizations wouldn't be caught dead doing that. But they'll pass them off with news if they think they can get away with it.
      For a better understanding of corporations and why they do these kinds of underhanded things, watch:
      http://www.thecorporation.com/

    21. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by krell · · Score: 1

      It's not "underhanded". It's merely the presentation of information. Take it or leave it. Besides, nonprofit groups don't have "an agenda" any less than corporations. Or anyone else, for that matter.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    22. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by Straif · · Score: 1

      I re-read your comment several times but have yet to find any actual defense of the BBC except that you don't like every other news source in Britian.

      Do you have a counter to either story except your utter disdain for the linked sources?

      Do you have links to the BBC denying that the leaked meeting happened or that they are not trying to prevent the report from becoming public? Of course not, you'd rather just attack the messenger and hope that no one notices your arguments have absolutely no substance except to portray your own prejudices.

      I personally don't have a problem with people who watch the BBC as a source of news, I would just like people not to put blind faith in any one news agency to tell them the unbiased truth.

      --
      Of course that's just my opinion...... you could be wrong!
    23. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      You seem to be under the misapprehension that the only news sources in Britain are the Beeb, the Daily Flail and the Torygraph. Ever try the Grauniad? The Indescribablyboring? The Scum? Daily Spurt? Piss'n'Jobbie? Glasgow AxGang's Herald? or the Edinburgh-based "You'll have had your tea then" Scotsman? (Just listing the papers that I'll read in an average month. Oh, don't forget the Teuchter's Courier.)
      One way of keeping your news balanced is to keep a chip on every shoulder - I also read the Torygraph regularly. Normally I pinch the Boss's copy in preference to paying for the reprehensible rag.
      Someone else pointed out that the Torygraph's fear and loathing of the Beeb has declined since Conrad Black sold up and was taken to court ; may be true - I don't read it often enough to really notice.
      Anyway, to the points at hand - the BBC is not particularly "anti-Israel" as the Flail and Torygraph claim ; they're no more "anti-Israel" than many other news sources who don't fawn helplessly to the grandchildren of a much sinned-against population, who have become terrible sinners themselves. That's the big irony of the entire Palestinian-Israeli situation. If it weren't such a tragedy, it'd be a comedy. Of errors.
      Do you have links to the BBC denying that the leaked meeting happened or that they are not trying to prevent the report from becoming public? Of course not, you'd rather just attack the messenger and hope that no one notices your arguments have absolutely no substance except to portray your own prejudices.

      Leaked meeting? Prevent report? OIC, you've obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck what's claimed in the Torygraph. And in any case, if the Beeb are being alleged to have an anti-Israeli bias, then they're doing a peculiarly bad job of it with so many reports of the effects of terrorist attacks in Israel, on both sides of the walls, and in all communities. Compared to what I see in the rest of the Press, the Beeb are pretty even-handed. What lawyers for another newspaper say doesn't really intrerest me - I'll take it as meaning that employing lawyers has become cheaper than employing investigative journalists. Or possibly, the Torygraph can't get decent investigative journalists to work for them.

      I'll have to admit that the Torygraph does have a halfway decent crossword.

      I would just like people not to put blind faith in any one news agency to tell them the unbiased truth.

      my emphasis Oh, I get it. You're one of these "observational comedians". Ha. Ha. Don't give up the day job. Then again, don't go around expecting other people to have as restricted a view of the world as you have.
      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    24. Re:Are these like Slashvertisments? by krell · · Score: 1

      "they're no more "anti-Israel" than many other news sources who don't fawn helplessly to the grandchildren of a much sinned-against population, who have become terrible sinners themselves"

      Only if they are "Terrible sinners" for daring to insist they have a right to live, and to fight back against unreleting aggression from those who want to exterminate them.

      There was such a media terrible bias against the real victim in this last Israel-Lebanon war. Because of this misleading reporting, there are so many that do not know that this war was started when Lebanon invaded Israel.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  3. Let me be.. by myspys · · Score: 2, Funny

    .. the first one to say DUH

  4. Fox News better be careful.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    or they will get caught airing their corporate advertisments of the Republican Party.

  5. Better than government news stories by Salvance · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've seen a few of these fake corporate news stories, and usually it's pretty obvious that the story came from a company (particularly for regular viewers, since the local news reporters are typically not involved). As sneaky as this is though, I'd much rather watch corporate ads disguised as news than government propaganda disguised as news, something the current administration has been found to do.

    Either way, it's pretty sneaky and low.

    --
    Crack - Free with every butt and set of boobs
    1. Re:Better than government news stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      As sneaky as this is though, I'd much rather watch corporate ads disguised as news than government propaganda disguised as news

      What have you got, then?

      Well there's news, propaganda and news, news news ads and propaganda, propaganda news ads and propaganda, news news ads ads and propaganda, and propaganda news and ads...

      Have you got anything without propaganda in it?

      Well, there's news news ads and propaganda. That's not got much propaganda in it.

      I don't want any propaganda!

    2. Re:Better than government news stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      How dare you express such insubordination toward our rightful superiors?

      Don't you realize that they have our best interests at heart? Those kind leaders, in government and industry alike, seek naught but to guide us gently along the correct path.

      Without such friendly guidance, would the plebes understand the importance of torture, the vital necessity of constant surveillance, and the horrible danger of jury trials? These ideas are all vital and beautiful aspects of enlightened rule, yet we see at every turn their subjection to unfair criticism.

      Without so-called "propaganda," our Great Motherland will yet fall to Satan, deep into the clutch of Commies, Witches, Pirates, and Terrorists. Please, cease your traitorous comments and lend a hand to the Cause.

    3. Re:Better than government news stories by real+gumby · · Score: 4, Interesting
      ...usually it's pretty obvious that the story came from a company...
      The problem is: how do you know?
       
      Perhaps you only notice the poorly-done ones. After all, it's common to have radio DJs do spots for local businesses, which also is clearly an ad. But it's also common for DJs to work product mentions into the morning banter. The same applies to TV: how can you tell if that news segment on the local Coke plant was just a random filler or an ad placement by the bottler? What's the difference?
    4. Re:Better than government news stories by CastrTroy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Can they take this out of the magazines too? This kind of stuff really bugs me. They look like articles, and take up 4-5 pages in a magazine, but except for the word "Advertisement" appearing in small at the top of the article, they look just like articles. I can understand this happening in crappy tabloids, but I see it more often in news magazines. It's really quite terrible when companies try to hide their articles under the guise of a magazine article. It's deceiving to the public, and it makes it really annoying to try to find the real articles in a magazine.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    5. Re:Better than government news stories by Rhett's+Dad · · Score: 1

      Hey, G.W., you forgot to sign in again... your post came up "anonymous coward"...

      --
      Let me introduce you to my very own DMCA-protected encryption key: BC 1B 64 4A 8D DE 49 E8 C3 7D CC EE 1A AD EE
    6. Re:Better than government news stories by crazy_monkey · · Score: 1

      something the current administration has been found to do.

      And going back _14_ years. As I mentioned in the earlier /. discussion for Fake News Stories Probed, check out the 1995 documentary 'Spin' to see some early examples of this type of fake news being broadcast during the run-up to the 1992 election.

    7. Re:Better than government news stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      As sneaky as this is though, I'd much rather watch corporate ads disguised as news than government propaganda disguised as news [independent.co.uk], something the current administration has been found to do.


      Funny how you cite propaganda news containing made-up allegations of propaganda news.
    8. Re:Better than government news stories by CmdrGravy · · Score: 1

      Sounds like he signed in to me.

    9. Re:Better than government news stories by geobeck · · Score: 1

      I'd much rather watch corporate ads disguised as news than government propaganda disguised as news...

      Really? Who do you think has the greatest influence on the government? Some people are so fearful of the ghost of socialism that they can't see that their government has become little more than an an oligarchy controlled by the rich elite.

      The fact that you get so much of your news from News Corporation should be a strong hint of just how impartial that news is.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    10. Re:Better than government news stories by Simon · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Some people are so fearful of the ghost of socialism that they can't see that their government has become little more than an an oligarchy controlled by the rich elite. The fact that you get so much of your news from News Corporation should be a strong hint of just how impartial that news is.

      To put the whole topic of "corporate bias in the media" in a nutshell: "Beware of advice from the rich, for they do not seek company."

      --
      Simon

    11. Re:Better than government news stories by wolfemi1 · · Score: 1

      News without propaganda in it? Eeew!

    12. Re:Better than government news stories by Dorceon · · Score: 1

      At what point do the vikings march through and drown out the conversation by saying, "Propaganda!" over and over again?

      --
      What sound do people on rollercoasters make? Hint: it's not Xbox 360.
    13. Re:Better than government news stories by Stormwatch · · Score: 2, Funny
      Well there's news, propaganda and news, news news ads and propaganda, propaganda news ads and propaganda, news news ads ads and propaganda, and propaganda news and ads...
      Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam; spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam; or Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.
    14. Re:Better than government news stories by jafac · · Score: 1

      On the bright-side though;

      Citizens of the former Soviet Union very quickly learned to not trust Pravda (official gov. newsmedia) for their news, because it was a given that it was pure propaganda.

      Today in the US - people falsely believe we have a "free press" - or even worse; a Liberally Biased newsmedia. I think that the more of this crap they pull, the better. Because people already know not to trust FoxNews (when they - oops! label a disgraced Republican congressman as a member of the Democratic party, repeatedly, most people are not stupid enough to believe that's an honest mistake). The more of this happens, the less people will trust the newsmedia for accurate reporting. And this is a good thing. A very good thing.

      Sadly, unlike the fable "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" - we will not be treated to the entertainment of watching the lying newsmedia being devoured alive by wild beasts. Though we may be treated to watching a major city being vaporized by terrorists using a nuclear weapon. . . won't that be shaedenfraude?

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    15. Re:Better than government news stories by fifedrum · · Score: 1

      doctor's office: various "health" magazines. 100% advertisments all the way through. Rate your sleep quality, followed by a page for a sleep aid. Rate your love life, followed by a page for an ED pill. Of course the story/ads are written with the slant that everyone who reads the ads will come away with the impression they need the drug advertised on the next page. /sickening

    16. Re:Better than government news stories by naoursla · · Score: 1

      Speaking of which, a morning radio show in Austin was pushing Myspace pretty hard last year. My wife and I wondered if they were paid to do so. Did anyone else notice the same thing anywhere else?

    17. Re:Better than government news stories by real+gumby · · Score: 1

      This morning, because of this thread, I listened to the radio on the way to work. One of the DJs was pushing the Zune pretty hard (in two separate inter-song banter sessions), and I think he was trying to do a good job because he sounded kinda natural except both times he rattled off the Zune tagline (not the "social" one but some other one) three times in about 90 seconds, which sounded weird.

      What made it funny rather than sad was that when he wasn't talking about the Zune he kept mentioning the iPod ("yeah, I listen to blah, really loud blasting from my iPod, but when I pull up at a light..."). Now maybe it was involuntary because he had MP3 on the brain, and maybe it was a mind-game reaction to having been sold by management, but it really sounded like he spoke that way automatically.

      I'm not sure I would have caught it had I not been paying attention.

      My favorite is from a couple of years ago: a fun local DJ who makes it clear when he is trying to do a good job and when he's not (who I guess hated Comcast) had a placed ad to make. So he opened up a discussion with his co-DJ, something like, "Did you catch the new COMCAST video on demand service last night on COMCAST? It was great. Did you know COMCAST has so many channels, why COMCAST has channels for everyone? I enjoyed watching terms of endearment last night on COMCAST and I liked it so much I watched it again on COMCAST. In fact they have a terms of endearment channel on COMCAST that shows it 24 hours a day. In fact I think I'll say COMCAST again about 10 more times because the minute's not up: COMCAST COMCAST...." you get the idea.

      If only all the ads were so good. At least I remember the product... and know to avoid it!

    18. Re:Better than government news stories by krell · · Score: 1

      "Today in the US - people falsely believe we have a "free press"

      It's actually probably the most free press in the world: looking at the combination of the sheer huge diversity and number of "publications" with the fact of very small government involvement in the media (compared to almost everywhere else). Not sure what your example of Fox News means. They are just one example of the free press (no government control). They aren't that influential, anyway. I've found many references to Fox's "Foley = Democrat" mistake all over the media, but have never seen Fox itself do this mistake.

      "or even worse; a Liberally Biased newsmedia."

      The left-wing bias accusation is true, but only of most of the major TV networks.

      "....that it was pure propaganda"

      I see that you are running with a vague definition of "propaganda" that means 'information that you happen not to like."

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    19. Re:Better than government news stories by niktemadur · · Score: 1

      In Mexico, this technique is known as a goal, as in soccer. It's a part of the lexicon, and whenever somebody slips one by on-air, it's cause for for a bit of ball-busting towards whoever did it. So there is a self-conscious effort to try to avoid it, even if by accident, as in "...well yeah, the other day I was in the office here at the station drinking a Coke OOOOPS!" Cue laughter and somebody in the studio underlining the goal on-air.

      It goes so far as to include local businesses, as in "Well, last night my wife and I went to X restaurant, yeah, I know, that was a goal..." A typical response would be "Are you on the payroll?" or "Did you eat there for free?"

      So more typically, it goes something like this: "Well, last night my wife and I went to a restaurant, I won't say which one, gotta avoid the goal..." Businesses are usually mentioned only where they belong, which is during commercial breaks.

      --
      Lil' Thindime, lilting a lacrimose lament, krashes the kwaint konfines of Kokonino Kounty
  6. Mod parent up by The+Hobo · · Score: 0

    Well put.

    --
    There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
    1. Re:Mod parent up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything on CNN and in the New Jerk Times is propaganda disguised as news.

  7. Corporations == 21st Century Barons by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Has anyone else noticed that at every turn corporations again and again attempt to subvert the powers of the state and twist both public opinion and the law to their own benefit. In many cases, large corporations behave like small, independant countries or baronies, accountable to no one but themselves and largely immune from reprecussion. Only the state can realistically challenge their authority, and even then only with considerable effort and expense.

    The situation in many ways resembles the old medieval baronies, who quarralled and feuded amoung themselves, and methaphoricall and literally stamped on the faces of the general population. The state/king had only limited ability to exercise control and essentially each barony was a virtual state within a state. In many cases, different parts of a country could be at war with one another, or with the monarchy.

    In case anyone thinks this is a bit far fetched, consider this. What if MegaCorp(TM), drove up to your house one day and towed away your car on some flimsy legal pretense? Barons and Lords did this kind of thing all the time. What can you do? It's getting to the point that the police will not even dare to investigate large corporations with their armies of lawyers. Your ability to conclude a successful suit before you grow old and die is also ever decreasing.

    You get a lot of SciFi where in the furture, corporations rule everything. Is this really so far fetched? If they have more de facto power and influence than the nation states in which they reside, then what is to stop them, like the old barons before them, from simply all but forming states of their own? Maybe Richelieu's reforms will be rolled back, just in a different form.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
    1. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You can tell what a society deems the most important based on the size of the buildings erected for it. For much of the Middle Ages, churches would be the largest buildings, with giant cathedrals constructed as demonstrations of the church's power.

      At some point following the Renaissance, government buildings became the largest buildings. No longer would the town church be the largest building, but instead the local government building would be the largest. The state had become the largest power.

      Who do the largest buildings we erect today represent? The most powerful and important entities create the largest buildings. When you see a city skyline, what makes up most of the largest buildings?

      Can you even see city hall in most modern city skylines?

    2. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "What if MegaCorp(TM), drove up to your house one day and towed away your car on some flimsy legal pretense?"

      Build up a large credit card bill and you can find out yourself.
      It's only when you have no money that you realise how powerless poverty makes you.

    3. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by rs232 · · Score: 1

      "You get a lot of SciFi where in the furture, corporations rule everything. Is this really so far fetched? If they have more de facto power and influence than the nation states in which they reside, then what is to stop them, like the old barons before them, from simply all but forming states of their own? Maybe Richelieu's reforms will be rolled back, just in a different form"

      It happened some time ago. You've basically described the present situation. Take here for instance, as Royalty lost mosts of its power to the state, the state in turn has lost most of its power to the multi-nationals. The leaders of which once a year, meet up with the various heads of gov and tell them what their policys are going to be. The push for globalization being one such example. You see in order to maximum profits it's necessary to dismantle the nation state and have a homogenous consumer market from pole to pole. Everyone watching the same movies, wearing the same bling uniform and buying the same gadgets.

      --
      davecb5620@gmail.com
    4. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shadowrun here we come!

    5. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by 91degrees · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Thats not totally true. When you have no money, you become a lot more powerful. You have the same amont of influence as someone with very little, but you no longer have the weakness of having something to lose. Take a look at the McLibel case. The defendents had no money, so nothing to lose from a protracted legal case and a judgement against them. If they had a house and savings then that would have been at risk.

    6. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I should correct this. By "largest" I actually meant "tallest". Anyone can build a large building - just connect a whole bunch of small buildings together. Large, sprawling buildings aren't a sign of power.

      Tall buildings, on the other hand, require the height of a society's technological and engineering skills. Only the most important of a society can afford to hire the best and the brightest of their society to figure out how to build a tall building. The most important and influential aspects of a society will have the tallest buildings.

    7. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by gm0e · · Score: 1
      ... corporations again and again attempt to subvert the powers of the state and twist both public opinion and the law to their own benefit. In many cases, large corporations behave like small, independant countries or baronies, accountable to no one but themselves ...

      According to Milton Friedman they are accountable solely to their shareholders. He lays it out pretty clearly in The Social Responsibility of Business is to Increase its Profits.

      I don't personally buy into Friedman's reasoning but based on news like this I suspect an awful lot of executive boards and marketing departments do. This mentality won't change for a long time. For now, the real problem is the integrity of the so called "journalists" who present these prepackaged news-vertisements as legitimate news.
    8. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Optikschmoptik · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I know there are a lot of sincere libertarians on this site, and I sympathize with the libertarian idea (breifly, get the government off our backs). But this is what always gets me. If we just deregulate, it leaves a power vacuum, and we're left with these other entities governing us instead. Private, unelected oligarchs get to be in charge, and no one 'gets them off your back' if they decide that getting on your back is going be more profitable.

      VNRs seem to be a symptom of this. There's no law, that I know of (or that I could find cited in either article), forcing stations to disclose a 3rd-party PR puff-piece. In the same department, what is there to discourage corporate conflicts of interest in general between the larger corporations and their news companies (i.e. between selling ads and promoting journalism)? Really, I'm asking, is there anything?

      On the other hand, we do have the internet. I doubt incidents like 'macaca' would get any traction without this big, unregulated, free-for-all of journalism. So let's pretend the market stays totally 'unregulated' for the next 10 years, and AT&T manages to dominate the entire ISP market in, say North Carolina. And they decide that all forum posts, sites, videos and emails critical of Sen. Dole (who happens to be in a close re-election race) violate their Terms Of Service, so they get second-tier delivery, or dropped entirely from their routers and servers. Effectively, it's the pre-internet information landscape all over again, but without those pesky equal-time regulations. Still no government regulation of the internet, but would you feel freer? What, besides faith in (free market == personal freedom) makes you think this wouldn't happen?

    9. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by kypper · · Score: 1

      The fundamental concepts behind Milton Friedman's economics have encouraged the short term, profit-maximizing solutions that are now rampant within the majority of our large corporations. I honestly don't give a damn about the shareholders; the company's duty is to its customers first, its employees second, and the shareholders a distant third.

    10. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by ElephanTS · · Score: 1

      You get a lot of SciFi where in the furture, corporations rule everything.

      Actually we are already there. Corporate power transcends national boundaries now for instance. When I was growing up I read a great deal of SciFi and it staggers me how much has come to pass.

      --
      spoonerize "magic trackpad"
    11. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by hugzz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Um maybe it isn't what society deems to be the most important, but what has the most money. I wouldn't be surprised if religion used to have the most money, and then government had the most money, and now business has the most money. It takes money to build big buildings!

    12. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      What if MegaCorp(TM), drove up to your house one day and towed away your car on some flimsy legal pretense?



      Hasn't this happened before ? Or does it make much of a difference that the corp has to go to the government first, present a business plan, and then the government takes away your property, crying "eminent domain", and hands it over to the corp ?

    13. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by bri2000 · · Score: 1
      And then you have the other kind of sci-fi dystopia where it's the state that exerts totalitarian control over its citizens...

      Not to disagree with but, while your penultimate paragraph is certainly true, it's equally true that if the government or any of its agencies were to decide to harass you for some reason you'd have even less chance of redress. I think focusing on large corporations misses the point that the rights of the individual are threatened by large, well funded organisations of any sort and, despite what a lot of people think, the state is still the largest and richest of all those organisations. In the UK, for example, I could be made to dissappear to 28 days (soon, it seems, to be 90), with no judicial review and it would be a criminal offence for anyone to report what had happened to me. I've never heard of any corporation doing that.

      No reason you should believe me, but I work with a lot of people of the sort who feature as players in the "corporations are taking over the world" type conspiracy theories and, in my experience, they're greedy and selfish but absolutely terrified of what will happen if they go to far and the state finds out what they're up to. Even more so since the Enron trials and the extradition of the NatWest Three. They all understand that, in the end, the state, with its police forces, standing armies and weapons of mass destruction has far greater capacity to project power and inflict violence than any company.

      This does, though, beg the question of whether the state can be suborned by an individual corporation. My view is that, at least at present, it can't be because there are such a large number of companies with differing interests lobbying governments that their efforts neutralise each other, at least to some extent.

    14. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by HangingChad · · Score: 1

      Well, when you consider the Chamber of Commerce gets 100K from every corporate donor...and that's on the low end...business has a lot of money to make sure enforcement is lax.

      This isn't exactly new. When Clinton proposed universal health care it was HMO's and drug companies lining up to throw money at influencing public opinion against it.

      Unless we come up with a way of creating a more intelligent and discerning general population...and I wouldn't hold my breath on that...anyone with a big enough budget to afford a negative campaign is going to be able to smear every good idea that some business group wants to see killed. The only other possible solution is to change the perception that a corporation is an artificial person with an absolute right to free speech. Restrictions they would probably then skirt by creating and funding lobbying groups separate from the corporation to promote its interests. Many of them do that anyway to avoid being publicly linked to "research" that shows there is no stinking global warming.

      It's a tricky question. How to level the playing field when the corporate world can spend investor dollars in the defense of their own interests but still give them ability to present their side of things. Not sure there are any easy answers. Besides influencing the news and public opinion many corporations are also paying for scientific research results that support the conclusions they want. And there are plenty of research organizations, public and private, willing to compromise the results in the interest of getting the money, which they justify by saying the money will support other research that will balance out the evil of selling out.

      --
      That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
    15. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Worse yet, they're fleeting. They don't like your kind of legal system? They move away. They're nearly intangible, and what hurts more, their business revenue is hardly really taxable. The average corporation pays about half the tax (in percent, not in dollar) that you do.

      It's also fairly hard to hold them liable for something. How do you imprison a corporation? What Sony did with the rootkit would have warranted a jail sentence in some countries. It has (almost) happened to juvenile "hackers" before. Instead they got off the hook with a laughable "agreement".

      It's already "good practice" in the shadier areas of some businesses (for example the porn biz) to put up some front man who is nominally in charge (and gets paid well for doing essentially). If something falls down on the company, he goes to jail and the biz keeps rolling.

      Now that some countries start putting more pressure on the heads of corporations (Enron comes to mind), corporations first of all move their HQs to countries that are much more lenient on corporations with shady practices, and they replace their heads with figure heads. So far, this isn't widespread practice yet, but as soon as the idea kicks in, they move essentially outside of the grasp of the legal body of whatever country they reside in.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    16. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by OakDragon · · Score: 1
      Or does it make much of a difference that the corp has to go to the government first, present a business plan, and then the government takes away your property, crying "eminent domain", and hands it over to the corp ?

      In such a case, does the corporation in question deserve the lion's share of the blame? No, although they may be a villain. The blame lies with the government, the courts, and in ourselves.

    17. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by krell · · Score: 1

      " When Clinton proposed universal health care it was HMO's and drug companies lining up to throw money at influencing public opinion against it."

      I'm glad they did. Hillary's plan to destroy health care (which actually included jail terms for seeing your doctor without government approval) was definitely not in the public interest. Health care is just too important to have the government take it all over and trash it.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    18. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Um maybe it isn't what society deems to be the most important, but what has the most money.

      And why do certain groups end up with the most money?

      Because consciously or unconsciously, directly (by forking over cash) or indirectly (through public policy), people direct the flow of money towards them.

      If one group has the most money, that's exactly because society deems them to be the most important.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    19. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      According to Milton Friedman they are accountable solely to their shareholders.

      The major shareholders of large corporations are often other large corporations - banks, muutual funds, etcetera. 90% of GM, for example, is owned by "institutions" and mutual funds. "State Street Corporation" owns 15%, $2.5 billions dollars worth, of GM stock alone. In turn, 79% of State Street Corporation is owned by other institutions.

      In a sane world, no corportion could own any part of another, all shareholders would be actual human beings; and those actual human beings would bear responsibility for malfeasance by the corporation.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    20. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      And then you have the other kind of sci-fi dystopia where it's the state that exerts totalitarian control over its citizens...

      Corporations are the state. They exist because the state created an immortal artifical legal person.

      When we cry for limits on corporate power, we are crying for limits on state power; the state should not be empowered to create such monsters.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    21. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Has anyone else noticed that at every turn corporations again and again attempt to subvert the powers of the state...

      Has anyone noticed that the state continues to accumulate and use their powers to restrict the freedom of the people? Has anyone noticed that corporations are made up of groups of people?

    22. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by geobeck · · Score: 1

      What if MegaCorp(TM), drove up to your house one day and towed away your car on some flimsy legal pretense? Barons and Lords did this kind of thing all the time.

      Except back then it was "Dude, where's my horse?"

      Sorry, couldn't resist.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    23. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by CmdrGravy · · Score: 1

      I agree and in that sense libertarianism is effectivley the same thing as facism, corporations end up in control.

    24. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by hibernia · · Score: 1

      You make a good point.

      But a random fact about Lincoln:

      http://www.ci.lincoln.ne.us/City/attorn/lmc/conten ts.htm
      27.56 Capitol Environs District

      No building located within this district shall exceed the building height limit as shown on the
      Capitol Environs District Height Regulations Map, or the maximum building height permitted in the
      underlying zoning district, whichever is less.

    25. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by TechForensics · · Score: 1

      When President Teddy Roosevelt had J.P. Morgan in for a lecture on monopolistic behavior, he remarked to his aide after the meeting that "that fellow Morgan spoke to me as an equal or a colleague, when I am the President of the United States"!

      --
      Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
    26. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by goon_coder · · Score: 1

      What could I do? I could blow the friggin heads off the people who are trying to pull up to my house and take my car...

    27. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by crabpeople · · Score: 1
      "When you see a city skyline, what makes up most of the largest buildings?"

      Condominiums?

      --
      I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
    28. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      Health care is already trashed. We spend more than any other country per capita for the 45th best care. Our life expectancy is low, infant mortality is high, and a quarter of our citizens are uninsured. Doctors are unhappy, it is tough to fill many necessary jobs, and patients are getting shoddy care. Price increases are double-digits year after year, insurance gets worse and copays go up.

      You're an idiot to be proud of our health care system. We need to do something, the current system is irrevocably broken.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    29. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by glsunder · · Score: 1

      Royalty lost mosts of its power to the state, the state in turn has lost most of its power to the multi-nationals

      So, who gets the power next?

    30. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by FleaPlus · · Score: 3, Funny

      > You can tell what a society deems the most important based on the size of the buildings erected for it.

      By that logic, we're clearly a society which places a great deal of importance on aircraft assembly.

    31. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by krell · · Score: 1

      "infant mortality is high, and a quarter of our citizens are uninsured"

      Our infant mortality rates are skewed higher than many countries because we count the deaths of "preemies". Other countries rig the numbers so that categories like this (at the highest risk of death) aren't even counted when they die. Uninsured? So what. Insurance is not the same as health care. 100% of Americans lack food insurance too, but this does not mean starvation.

      You are an idiot to want to destroy the system. There is much to be proud of: it works well for the overwhelming majority of Americans, and the drugs produced and the hospitals lead the world. There are problems that must be fixed (start with banning the frivolous lawsuits that make costs go up), but that is no reason to take the entire system away from the people and turn it over to greedy, unaccountable ruling elites. Stalinizing it is not the solution to anything, except the "problem" of government not having enough power.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    32. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Moofie · · Score: 1

      "Um maybe it isn't what society deems to be the most important, but what has the most money."

      Why do you think these two sets are different?

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    33. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Shajenko42 · · Score: 1

      A giant, self-aware computer.

      Serve the Computer. The Computer is your friend.

    34. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Or does it make much of a difference that the corp has to go to the government first, present a business plan, and then the government takes away your property, crying "eminent domain", and hands it over to the corp ?

      In such a case, does the corporation in question deserve the lion's share of the blame?

      Hell yes. A mob boss who hires thugs to do his dirty work is no less a criminal. Why on Earth would it be different when the thug being hired is the government ?

      No, although they may be a villain. The blame lies with the government, the courts, and in ourselves.

      I guess Stalin had less blame for the millions his regime murdered, then, than the people who did the dirty work ? I mean, it was on his orders, sure, but that doesn't mean he gets the lion's share of the blame, right ?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    35. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by rs232 · · Score: 1

      So, who gets the power next?

      The machines of course. Humanity will be reduced to the status of domesticated animals.

      --
      davecb5620@gmail.com
    36. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by krell · · Score: 1

      "Social Security - it's better than Social Darwinism."

      It's actually an example of social darwinism: government has the power to steal huge amounts of money from people as long as they say it is "to help them", so they do it. They end up blowing the money on whatever government wants (anything to enrich and empower themselves, usually). Meanwhile, the system collapses: only due to the time delay effect we won't know about it for 30 years. Anyone who dares to try to repair the collapsed system is falsely accused of "you want to take away people's retirement!!!".

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    37. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      It's already turned over to greedy unaccountable ruling elites. If my insurance company doesn't want to pay for a procedure, I'm out of luck. I've already declared bankruptcy once over uncovered medical expenses. The corporate overlords are making medical decisions for me already. Why not try something else? I don't even care what. Just something different from this expensive broken failure we have now. I cannot believe you are defending it. Every doctor I know knows the system is broken. It hasn't worked for me, my family, my parents, my friends, or anyone I know.

      Americans have food insurance, btw. It's called food stamps. It kept me from going hungry when I was going through bankruptcy.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    38. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by krell · · Score: 1

      "It's already turned over to greedy unaccountable ruling elites"

      No, most of it is in the private sector. If your insurance company won't pay for something, find another! How many companies are there? Hundreds? If you have the government take it over, there won't be a choice unless you leave the country.

      "The corporate overlords are making medical decisions for me already. Why not try something else? I don't even care what. "

      Yeah, replace many competing corporate overlords with one single overlord that controls everything. Now, what did THAT solve? Yes, there are problems with it. I don't defend the problems. However, I don't want to stalinize health care.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    39. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1
      No, most of it is in the private sector. If your insurance company won't pay for something, find another! How many companies are there? Hundreds? If you have the government take it over, there won't be a choice unless you leave the country.

      Most employers offer one insurance plan. Purchasing insurance on the open market is cripplingly expensive, easily over $1000/month. I've changed employers to get on a better plan, only to see the plan get dropped next benefit year. Changing jobs is a really inefficient way to change health care providers.

      There isn't very good information on health care plans, and they change all the time. All the insurance providers offer so many different packages you can't say "Aetha? Oh that's a good plan." You also aren't guaranteed to get the same plan you look at when considering what to get.

      I'd love it if there were some standards and stability in health care. Instead I get "Oh, this plan went up 40% this year, here's a shitty one for 20% more." Not to mention the countless times something should have been covered, but the insurance company denies it without recourse. If you get too sick, your insurance company will simply drop you from the policy, again without recourse.

      Insurance works best when everyone is covered. Otherwise you get companies competing for the healthiest workers and refusing to insure the ones who need insurance.

      A perfect example of the problem where I live: The largest insurer and the largest hospital provider couldn't reach agreement on terms, so suddenly the majority of residents couldn't use the main hospitals, and weren't covered at the other hospitals. The situation is still unresolved. People have died because they couldn't get care they paid for and were insured for. It's ridiculous.

      Do you have any suggestions?
      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    40. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by vertinox · · Score: 1

      It takes money to build big buildings!

      Or slave labor.

      Consider the Roman Empire, Ancient Egypt, and many of Nazi Germany's grand projects build on slave labor. I suppose you had to feed your labor and pay people to whip them.

      Of course the difference between slavery, serfdom, peasantry, and getting a paycheck from a corporation is very minimal if you take out the context of modern conveniences.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    41. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by krell · · Score: 1

      "Most employers offer one insurance plan."

      As I said, some things need fixing. For one, we need to get rid of the company-based health care plans. Don't do away with it: it must be replaced with a raise identical to the value so that the employee can choose whatever plan they want without it being any of the employer's business. The company spends no more and no less before vs after the change. Gets rid of the problem of being stuck in one plan, doesn't it?

      I'd also do the same thing with pensions. After Enron, why do we need to encourage putting eggs into one basket like this? Or (to use a better analogy) all of the cookies into one cookie jar?

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    42. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by ultranova · · Score: 1

      It's actually an example of social darwinism: government has the power to steal huge amounts of money from people as long as they say it is "to help them", so they do it.

      Social darwinism refers to the attitude of "the poor deserve their lot and the rich deserve their lot" and justifying this attitude with a twisted parody of Darwin's theory of evolution. It has nothing to do with taxes; if anything, taxing people and using the acquired money to help the poor is the exact opposite of it.

      They end up blowing the money on whatever government wants (anything to enrich and empower themselves, usually).

      Perhaps. But what does that have to do with social security ?

      Meanwhile, the system collapses: only due to the time delay effect we won't know about it for 30 years. Anyone who dares to try to repair the collapsed system is falsely accused of "you want to take away people's retirement!!!".

      Social security systems have been in place for longer than 30 years, and the societies that have them aren't showing any signs of collapse. And a fix that includes taking away retirement - which logically means that you'll starve to death when you can't work anymore - is understandably reviled by anyone who is going to be affected by it; that includes anyone who doesn't die young and isn't wealthy enough to survive without working.

      But perhaps you could explain how you'd fix these systems in such a way that the old people and unemployed won't starve ?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    43. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by jafac · · Score: 1

      What, besides faith in (free market == personal freedom) makes you think this wouldn't happen?

      That's essentially what we're talking about.

      It's faith.

      Starry-eyed members of the Church of the Invisible Hand.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    44. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      The problem with this approach is the reason most small businesses don't offer insurance. You can only get acceptable rates if you have hundreds or thousands of employees. For an individual, or for a small business, your only affordable option is catastrophic coverage. Catastrophic coverage is extremely difficult to evaluate, since claims are paid so rarely. You don't know if you've got bogus coverage until it's too late. It'd sure be nice if tax incentives were switched so employers could pay employees for the benefits, but it doesn't help until the problem of no affordable coverage is solved.

      I've worked at places that had similar retirement policies as Enron. It made me really nervous that they only matched company stock. I like 401k plans where you can pick from several options. Of course, few places offer pensions anymore. It's all employee-funded or the social security gamble. It's depressing to compare my Dad's pension+socsec and health care at 78 and come up with more than I make at 38. Oh well, I probably don't live in the worst demographic.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    45. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You get a lot of SciFi where in the furture, corporations rule everything. Is this really so far fetched?

      IT is when you take a look at that inconvenient body of facts called history, where out-of-control goverments (of which actual baronies are an instance) have left a trail of hundreds of millions of dead... more than all disease and natural disasters combined over the same time period.

      Number of dead at the hands of corporations "per se": NONE. It's never happened in history. (If your next thought is "What about Mussolini's 'corporatist' government", you are a complete historical illiterate; what Mussolini meant by "corporates" in his scheme were collectives organized by profession/industry, better known as unions or "guilds".

      And yet the Left insists that corporations are the great danger facing us, and that the solution is to enlarge government power over them.

      You'd think after 100 million dead in the last century alone -- at the hands of various Leftist societal forms-- we'd finally be past this kind of thinking...

    46. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1
      Man, you really need that seminar!


      Given that you are arguing with krell, your sig is so appropriate! Seriously, though, you are wasting your time. Krell is a brainwashed shill who would deny the Earth goes around the Sun if it went against his preconceptions.

    47. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by krell · · Score: 1

      Do you have anything to back up your false claims? tOr are you having fun with witty insults. Well, at least you are good at that. I see that your definition of "shill" means someone who disagrees with you and backs up arguments with facts. Or perhaps it fits you: you have been lying in order to support a brutal fascist dictator. One example of a blatant lie was that the "Dictator of the Month" (with its skewering of a large number of right-wing dictators) was some sort of "right-wing" site). Me? I dislike dictators, both left and right.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    48. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by krell · · Score: 1

      "Starry-eyed members of the Church of the Invisible Hand."

      Typically feared by those who worship in the Church of the Jackboot of Fascism.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    49. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by evilviper · · Score: 1
      Only the state can realistically challenge their authority, and even then only with considerable effort and expense.

      That effort and expense need not be necessary. The Republican party has been putting a LOT of effort into "Tort Reform", a code-word for removing the right of individuals from using corporations. If they put a FRACTION as much effort into limiting the legal remedies of corporations against the government, they could eliminate the vast majority of expenses associated with reforming corporations.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    50. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by Bloke+down+the+pub · · Score: 1

      And people should all be nice to each other.

      --
      It's true I tell you, feller at work's next door neighbour read it in the paper.
    51. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by LunaticTippy · · Score: 1

      I don't mind conversations with people who have different opinions. Sometimes I'll learn something, or see things with a new perspective. Other times it is enlightening to see how other people's thought processes work. I don't really try to "convert" people to my way of thinking anymore.

      Anyway, I like your nick!

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    52. Re:Corporations == 21st Century Barons by krell · · Score: 1

      The borg guy's problem came from another entirely separate conversation in which he was defending a certain dictator as not being a dictator at all.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  8. Hello ! by moseman · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Shit, they are still showing political stories disguised as news too. kdawson likes those.

    --
    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to think "profiling is worse than the slaughter of innocent people..."
  9. Real Story...? by LlamaDragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why not link to the the real article instead of, or in addition to, the story about the article?

    1. Re:Real Story...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe because it's already linked to in the Democracy Now article?

  10. what real news? .. by rs232 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    There isn't any real news. Don't you realize it yet. Stories are generated and fed to the media by the PR departments of the various interests. How it works is a bunch of 'journalists' sit in a room and generate feel good stories about the establishment and negative ones about whoever we happened to be currently at war with. You see it doesn't really matter if what is reported happened, all is required is the 'facts' be spun in favour of the winners. Like when Bush recently legalised the torture of prisoners, NBC reported this as Bush banning torture.

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
    1. Re:what real news? .. by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There isn't any real news. Don't you realize it yet. Stories are generated and fed to the media by the PR departments of the various interests. How it works is a bunch of 'journalists' sit in a room and generate feel good stories about the establishment and negative ones about whoever we happened to be currently at war with.

      Don't laugh - I knew a guy who worked for one of the weekly tabloids (hint - they encouraged people to subscribe by giving away 50-cent lottery tickets way back when), and they had to come up with goofy stories every week, so they made them up. Improbable stories ... They made up one of a 90-year-old woman giving birth to a baby, stuck a random name and state on it ... and sure enough, there actually WAS a 90-year-old woman by that name in that state. She sued, they delayed the lawsuit ("Hey, she'll die before we get to court ..." and when she stubbornly refused to just lay down and die, they had to settle a decade later.

      So yes, a lot of the stories you see "in the news" at the checkout counter are pure fiction.

    2. Re:what real news? .. by XorNand · · Score: 4, Informative

      For anyone who hasn't yet read it, I highly recommend that you read Paul Graham's blog post entitled "The Submarine". It's a very interesting insight into how PR firms craft the fake news that you describe.

      --
      Entrepreneur : (noun), French for "unemployed"
    3. Re:what real news? .. by Yfrwlf · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't be surprised if he works for a PR company. While it certainly could be genuine, and he does make some points that I think are very much true, ending the article with the tone that "stuff online is true" was a bad thing to do. Is this an ancient article? He says he thinks bloggers will be their next target. News flash: Lots of bloggers work for PR firms now. Lots of people are paid to "work at home to make money$$$$$!!!" and many of those jobs are "infiltration" jobs for forums and other things, or to just set up slanted blogs.

      --
      Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
    4. Re:what real news? .. by gt_mattex · · Score: 1

      *Waves finger*

      Paul is that you?

      --
      "No doubt one may quote history to support any cause, as the devil quotes scripture." - Learned Hand
  11. Oh, yeah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it would make more sence these days to point out news that really is news.

    How about a this-is-really-news and this-is-really-news-for-nerds departments? Slashdot?

    1. Re:Oh, yeah? by c0ldfusi0n · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, brain. I won't take you here anymore.

      --
      A computer makes it possible to do, in half an hour, tasks which were completely unnecessary to do before.
  12. Recycling: Not Just for Evil Corporations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But also for other special interest groups we're supposed to like.

    It's nice to see that somebody else finally noticed. Glenn Reynolds was writing about this problem back in 2002:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,42050,00.html

    Recycling is supposed to be a good thing, so you'd think that media organizations would be proud when they do it. But in fact, they tend to keep it quiet.

    I'm not talking about aluminum cans here, but about the tendency of media organizations to turn press releases and written-to-order opinion pieces into apparently objective accounts. This happens all the time, partly because of media laziness, and partly because of ingenuity on the part of the various advocacy groups that depend on media coverage to advance their agendas and promote their fundraising campaigns.

    The first part of this formula, media laziness, was demonstrated by journalism students here at the University of Tennessee a few years ago. They produced a fake press release for a non-existent student group opposed to political correctness and sent it to various news organizations. Some ran the item; some even embellished the report of an event that never happened with additional details that weren't in the phony press release. None called the contact number (which was genuine) or did anything else to check its validity. Yet when they were exposed, their response was to call the experiment "unethical."

    http://instapundit.com/archives/021755.php

    News stories, to a degree seldom appreciated by the general public, are often the product of press releases generated by trade associations and interest groups. Often those releases are converted into news stories by the simple expedient of placing a reporter's byline on top. Television news stories (especially those appearing on local stations) are often supplied fully produced, with blank spots left for the local news reporter to insert commentary that makes the story appear his or her own. Opinion columns are often "placed" by businesses or interest groups to support a particular point of view -- often, they are even written by those groups and then run with the byline of distinguished individuals, or even regular commentators, who have barely read the piece, much less written it. Indeed, the Sasso "attack video" was something of this sort, for the journalists who broke the Biden/Kinnock story did not at first disclose their source.

    Most readers and viewers have small appreciation of how little of what they see on television or read in newspapers and magazines is original with the reporters, editors, and producers involved. Yet in fact news organizations are highly dependent on predigested information from public relations firms, government officials, and advocacy groups, information that is often passed on to their readers and viewers with no indication that it is not original. That problem is not new, but it has gotten worse in recent years. . . .

    Although a "video news release" is still more expensive to produce than a standard paper press release, they have become much more common. According to a recent poll, seventy-five percent of TV news directors reported using video news releases at least once per day.

  13. Ric Romero has the scoop by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

    Corporations that pay media companies money sometimes affect their programming content. More at a 11.

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    1. Re:Ric Romero has the scoop by arivanov · · Score: 1

      The content of the news at 11:

      There are apparently some Channels and Stations which improve their profit margin by not buying newswire content and not doing original field reporting. They replace it by canned, pre-payed content which shows on their balance sheet as profit instead of the loss incurred by those pesky field crews (which you have to employ as well).

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
  14. Television......what a waste. by skeezix-the-cat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The trite reply to this article is -DON'T watch it-. I threw out my TV in 2000; I have a Mac, w/ great DVD capability, I rent stuff that's really great --Ken Burns stuff (jazz..), The Sopranos (isn't organized crime SO MUCH MORE interesting than the disorganized variety?), HBO and Showtime specials..... Other than that, TV is a wasteland. Go re-rent Clooney's 'Goodnight and Good Luck', pay attention to this gracious man's words about television. Show your kids.... But mostly, TV's PURE drek. DREK!! Makes kids stupid, and adults, even stupider. DON'T DO IT!! Resist your corporate overlords!! cheers, skeezix-the-cat.

    --
    --I do what I can, I work in the dark.
    1. Re:Television......what a waste. by MikeXpop · · Score: 5, Funny

      Pssh, you still use a computer? I threw my computer out in 1999 and haven't looked back. I have a library filled with great books, and I can borrow the others from the local library for FREE. The internet is such DREK. Makes kids stupid, and adults stupider. Resist your telecom overlords!!

      Cheers,
      Someone-holier-than-thou

      --
      Etiquette is etiquette. He kills his mother but he can't wear grey trousers.
    2. Re:Television......what a waste. by pandrijeczko · · Score: 1
      I hate to use bodily fluids to extinguish your catherine wheel but there is a helluva lot of product placement within movies these days anyway - so just by watching DVDs, you're not escaping the corporate brainwashing.

      Though I do agree that TV is mostly drek - although I consider myself fortunate in living in the UK and having the advert-free BBC TV and radio.

      --
      Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
    3. Re:Television......what a waste. by mgblst · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, I agree. I haven't used a computer for years!

    4. Re:Television......what a waste. by db32 · · Score: 1

      Pssh, you still read books? I threw my books out in 1984 and haven't looked back. I have a world of billboards to tell me what to think and I can read them any time I go outside for FREE. The printed word is suck drek. Resist your printing press overlords!

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
    5. Re:Television......what a waste. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I haven't either. After all, in Soviet Russia, the computer uses YOU!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:Television......what a waste. by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1
      I threw out my TV in 2000

      Area man? Is that you?

      http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694?

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    7. Re:Television......what a waste. by CmdrGravy · · Score: 1

      Gah ! I ditched my TV, Computer, Books and Bill Boards in 1976 and simply study the pattern of deer migrating across the moors to get all the news I need.

      In time I plan to ditch them to and simply observe microbial life on the beach.

    8. Re:Television......what a waste. by PCM2 · · Score: 1
      I rent stuff that's really great --Ken Burns stuff (jazz..), The Sopranos (isn't organized crime SO MUCH MORE interesting than the disorganized variety?), HBO and Showtime specials..... Other than that, TV is a wasteland.
      .... But mostly, TV's PURE drek. DREK!! Makes kids stupid, and adults, even stupider. DON'T DO IT!! Resist your corporate overlords!!

      Considering that you don't have a TV, it sounds like you're not really qualified to judge whether TV is good or not. A lot of people would say that we're in a virtual renaissance of TV drama today. Some of the most-rented DVDs are not Hollywood movies, but TV shows. I'm sure people can list lots more great shows than what you mention here. But hey, if you wanna sound like your grandfather, go right on ahead... pound that cane on the floor.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    9. Re:Television......what a waste. by JonnyCalcutta · · Score: 1

      Pah! Deer! I only have my whanger to play with...

    10. Re:Television......what a waste. by db32 · · Score: 1

      That is what that is for?! Forget TV, books, billboards, deer, and even the internet...well except for maybe that 1%...

      --
      The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
  15. Corporate Propaganda Still On the News by djupedal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One factor that seems to be overlooked is viewer ability to smell a rat and subsequently not be taken in. I feel more people realize the segment is a crafted fake, versus a genuine news spot, than the agencys doing the monitoring assume. I know I've seen these and have been able to tell, and if I can detect the fraud, so can others.

    Want something to really worry about in terms of broadcast hyjinks? MTV is using the tried and true subliminal 'power of suggestion' in various spots in their broadcasts in Asia. I happened to be capturing TV via a DVR one evening, and when I played back my sample via the jog wheel, I was able to clearly see a text message inside a faint white rectangular box, overlaid into a short commercial for an upcoming show. It came and went quickly...'progress is now - Fridays on MTV'...not long enough to spot unless you were paying close attention at that moment, but long enough to be captured by the brain for subliminal decoding...ouch. MTVs' idea or broadcast on the behest of some agency, perhaps?

    1. Re: Corporate Propaganda Still On the News by Nyph2 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Want something to really worry about in terms of broadcast hyjinks? MTV is using the tried and true subliminal 'power of suggestion' in various spots in their broadcasts in Asia. I happened to be capturing TV via a DVR one evening, and when I played back my sample via the jog wheel, I was able to clearly see a text message inside a faint white rectangular box, overlaid into a short commercial for an upcoming show. It came and went quickly...'progress is now - Fridays on MTV'...not long enough to spot unless you were paying close attention at that moment, but long enough to be captured by the brain for subliminal decoding...ouch. MTVs' idea or broadcast on the behest of some agency, perhaps?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subliminal_messaging# Effectiveness
      "Certain types of subliminal perception (hypnosis, for example) are known to affect the perceiver without any conscious knowledge of the effect on his part. However, there is no strong evidence that the types of messages discussed in this article (ones embedded into normal objects such as posters or movies) are at all effective."

      That's only the wiki quote on the subject. IANAP (but my mom is, so I hear no end of the stuff 2nd hand) but this is way beyond no strong evidence of it being effective. It's -no- evidence of any statistically significant effect in any serious study i.e. as close as you can get to proving it's not effective in any way we we've tried to do it.

      Now, to the topic of the article on the other hand, while many people can recognise stories like these as corporately funded, studies do show stories like these at minimum confuse the issue in statistically significant amounts. i.e. it's worth the companies to spend their money doing things like this rather than directly address the root issues they're trying to spread propaganda about.
      Ontop of this, despite some of this being found out, it doesnt cause enough public backlash on average to harm the company more than it helps. Some don't get found at all, some create a very minor stir, I dont know of any companies getting a major backlash against tactics like this, but if there have been any they're a minority to the point of it still being a sensible buisiness policy to take the risk.
      Until this changes, companies will continue to make business decisions like this because it's simply cheaper, including possible damages from backlash, to effect change in the population & the laws, than to actually fix their problems.
  16. This isn't news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Propaganda is as old as the printing press. Back in the days if you had political aspirations, you got editorials into the newspaper. This gave you exposure and the opportunity to push an agenda. These days it's much more sophisticated -- you've got people with absolutely no desire to be a public servant getting paid pretty decent money to cater a political agenda (Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, etc.). Since the people they most like to criticize have no power, they've moved beyond being mere editorialists to being Republican idea-brokers.

    Brief aside: While that's going to sound partisan, think about it. You've got one party that wants to tax the rich and one party that wants to cut taxes to the rich. (a) If you're rich, who're you going to side with? (b) List the number of CEOs for companies out there that aren't rich. Of course there are exceptions, George Soros I guess being a big one. Still, on the whole, propagandizing for the conservative movement is much older and more universal than the Republican/Democrat duality.

    Back on topic: What's news isn't that we're being targetted with propaganda. What's news is that we're THINKING it's news, when really it's been happening all along. Sort of scary that alot of people believe that propaganda is all silly WW2 posters and such and a thing of the past. It's sophisticated. Like the Devil, it's greatest victory is convincing the world that it doesn't exist -- and there are a LOT of people who don't believe propaganda exists. I guess, because, to realize it means to admit we've been suckered by it, and nobody wants to think of themselves as a sucker.

  17. Propaganda is all that comes out of 'the box' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    When the news is over, you then get Democrat party talking points andpolicy thinly disguised as sitcoms and Dramas (west wing, etc)

    1. Re:Propaganda is all that comes out of 'the box' by Omnivorax · · Score: 0, Troll
      When the news is over, you then get Democrat party talking points andpolicy thinly disguised as sitcoms and Dramas (west wing, etc)

      If you're talking about the major US political party, you mean "Democratic Party". Accidentally leaving off the "-ic" makes you seem lazy and ignorant, and deliberately doing so labels you a knee-jerk partisan shill.

      Not that we should expect anything better from an AC...
    2. Re:Propaganda is all that comes out of 'the box' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's very little democratIC about democrats

    3. Re:Propaganda is all that comes out of 'the box' by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 1
      you then get Democrat party talking points andpolicy thinly disguised as sitcoms and Dramas

      The correct usage is "Democratic party", or perhaps "the Democrats' talking points".

      Using "Democrat party" reveals one as a slavish follower of Republican partisans who practice Gingrichian language control.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    4. Re:Propaganda is all that comes out of 'the box' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      democratIC tactic #943: If you can't dispute the original facts, attempt to undermine the poster's credibility

  18. Corporations gaining power == fascism by nietsch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most usians may not be familiar with it, but fascism at it's core is the joining of political and corporate powers. Both Italy and Germany in the 30s had huge corporate blocks that had a lot of political power. That may give you some pause next time you see all the 'campaign donations' that flow one way. What do you think flows the other way?

    (oh and mods: please show your immaturiy to mod something down when you don't agree with it)

    --
    This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
    1. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by ElephanTS · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People don't seem to know that 'fascism' was the socio-economic paradigm of choice in the 20's and 30's. It's equivalent (or nearest) today is the 'free market economy'. Of course you're quite right about the US - the merger of state and corporation is technically fascism (tied together with the biggest propaganda machine the world has ever seen: the media). I think we're just in the 'benign' part of this new fascism and the next 10 years will begin to reveal the more sinister aspects of it.

      --
      spoonerize "magic trackpad"
    2. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      When writing your post, did you seriously believe that what you were writing was in anyway insightful? I mean, come on... with lines like this:

      tied together with the biggest propaganda machine the world has ever seen: the media


      Sounds like someone is in their freshman year of college...
    3. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we Americans are all too familiar with it. We had to help rescue those nations. Hopefully, over the course of the next 2 years, Al Qaeda will not attack. I suspect that the next attempt will be let through again, which will give W. the context to convert us to militia rule. If so, please send help.

    4. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by SkunkPussy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How he sounds doesn't make it any less true...

      I would say the media is an unwitting propaganda machine but a propaganda machine no less. It is a (mostly) free media so there is no reason that any individual cannot use the media for their own propaganda...assuming they can fund their own publicity/marketing department. So the media devolves more or less to be the mouthpiece of those with money (power) - government and coporations.

      Those points of view that do not have the resources to outshout other points of view do not get represented.

      --
      SURELY NOT!!!!!
    5. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by geobeck · · Score: 1

      I would say the media is an unwitting propaganda machine but a propaganda machine no less.

      I wouldn't exactly call them unwitting. In particular, News Corporation is about as witting as it gets.

      --
      Find environmentally and socially responsible products on http://buy-right.net
    6. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 1
      It's equivalent (or nearest) today is the 'free market economy'.


      I'm not sure if that's what you mean with the quotes around "free market economy", but the point here, what makes the current trend dangerously similar to fascism, is that the market is not actually that free.

      Proponents of the free market theory, well at least those who actually mean "free" when they say "free market", recognize that it requires three very basic conditions:

      1. Consumers must be rational, and able to make rational economic decisions.

      2. They must be free to exercise choice.

      3. They must have access to information to base their choice.

      It's easy to see that when megacorporations hold quasi-monopolies or oligopolistic cartels as they currently do, there is often little actual choice (condition 2). When said megacorps own the mass media, condition 3 goes out the window. Finally, I would wager that the constant barrage of advertising, the constant appeal to primal emotions such as lust, greed, pride and fear, obliterate condition 1.

      So there you are: even admitting that a "free market" economy would be the best thing, it just doesn't apply anyway.
    7. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by Gospodin · · Score: 1

      I'm so sick of this cracked logic. Corporations influence government - therefore it's fascism! I might as well say that governments regulate corporations - therefore it's socialism! The truth is that it's neither, so STFU.

      --
      ...following the principles of Heisenburger's Uncertain Cat...
    8. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by SkunkPussy · · Score: 1

      ok agreed :)

      --
      SURELY NOT!!!!!
    9. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there an option to vote "-1, Whines About Moderation"?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyr_complex

    10. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by Tired_Blood · · Score: 1

      You, and may others, misunderstand Fascism.

      Fascism as practiced by Nazi Germany and Italy (I don't know details of other variants) was strictly a means of power. The end goal of the Fascist state is to perpetuate the Fascist state - that's the only succinct description that can be applied to it. During its development, there is no generalized ideological structure. The form in Germany was a response to the threat posed by the Comintern (the whole point behind naming it national socialism), while the form in Italy being mostly a response to the general uncertainty post-WWI (with the idea that a single strong leader would eliminate uncertainty).

      It was essentially a hack system. There was no guiding doctrine such as a Constitution, Bible, or hardened political theory - just do what needs doing to become (and to remain) dictator.

      Given the lack of ideological structure, the practical structure simply co-opted existing ones. Corporations and the military were already rigidly organized and could be managed politically without much alteration. Other major organizations included labor unions, and the early Nazi movement did court them (for voter numbers) but could not embrace any single group since they were trying to be flexible (that hack system I mentioned).

      Ultimately, these governments had an easier time working with corporations, so they went on the path of least resistance.

      It is in a corporation's self interest to play along with any given government but Fascist states have no problem with nationalizing industries - a risky position for many corporations. OTOH, if powerful enough, corporations can influence governments. This is just to say that when corporations gain power, that (by itself) does not promote a Fascist state.

      The main disadvantage to this counter-balancing is that with all of these entities gaining power to more effectively assert themselves, the power of the individual citizen becomes less and less significant.

      --
      This is not my sig.
    11. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by Impotent_Emperor · · Score: 1
      I seem to remember that fascism is more akin to socialism rather than capitalism. After all, that is why the Nazis called themselves the National Socialist German Workers Party. Hitler did promise to aid the capitalists (he needed money and support), but he lied and screwed them over. However, it is hard to tell fascism from socialism by business interests alone, as both forms of government can take over corporations and essentially run them.


      I also seem to remember that Hitler had some rants against "Capitalist Jews" (also against "Communist Jews", Jews apparently being responsible for both capitalism and communism).

      Of course, fascism seems to take different forms in different countries, so it's hard to define. Mussolini was somewhat different than Hitler. I think this is in part why some people prefer the term "totalitarian" as it is more descriptive of government behavior rather than economic systems (it can also cover theocracies and monarchies). There are plenty of Capitalist and Socialist countries in the world, but only a few of them can be described as totalitarian. Totalitarianism may be an inherent part of fascism and that may be what it differentiates itself from the other "-isms".

      I think the word "fascist" is used more often than "totalitarian" simply because "fascist" is shorter and easier to remember.


      P.S. "USians" is not a word.

      P.P.S. After looking up the Wikipedia article on Hitler, he apparently also hated social democrats, [Jeffersonian?] liberals, and reactionary monarchists. I guess he doesn't fit on the normal political spectrum because he was crazy.

    12. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by krell · · Score: 1

      "I seem to remember that fascism is more akin to socialism rather than capitalism."

      It is for the most part. Socialism is all about government control of private (personal) economic matters. What functioning (heh) fascist system would let this one slip by? The differences between socialism and other forms of fascism are really just cosmetic the further you get in.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    13. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by jrumney · · Score: 1

      Both Italy and Germany in the 30s had huge corporate blocks that had a lot of political power.

      And don't forget the zaibatsu in Japan.

    14. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The media is absolutely not unwitting about it's role as a propaganda machine. FOX News unwitting? Puhleeeze.

      Media corporations are owned by industrial interests that have propaganda needs that have steered them into purchasing the media. At this point, 5 major corporations own most of the television media in the country.

      Is it accidental that the Carlyle Group just made a bid on Tribune Co., the company that owns the Chicago Tribune and the Los Angeles Times?
      Since the Carlyle Group owns and trades military industrial complex companies, I think you can expect these papers to become increasingly hawkish if they gain ownership.
      Unless the people figure out that media is in a fully whorish position in this century, selling *your opinion* for profit, and do something about it, we'll soon have an economy literally driven by blood for money.

    15. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by evilviper · · Score: 1
      Those points of view that do not have the resources to outshout other points of view do not get represented.

      Unless you have a cute little puppy, or sad little kids, or a woman who cries on cue... Any one of the above will get you ridiculous ammounts of TV time, to expouse whatever view you want.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    16. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by nietsch · · Score: 1

      Are you sure you did not mean communism? I know these countries called themselves socialist, but they all had a communist party. These did not come to be all by themselves, but under the influence of stalinist Russia. And stalin was very much a product of the 1930 (stalin came to power in 1924) so his idea of civil rights is not soo shocking.
      There are plenty of of socialist gouvernments that function in a true democracy that are not the totalitarian regimes you are made to think. Socialism is about the (rights of) the people.

      --
      This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
    17. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by krell · · Score: 1

      "Socialism is about the (rights of) the people."

      Only for the people who are in government, yes. Everyone else loses out. The more socialism there is, the more powerful the ruling elites are and the less people are able to control their own lives and affairs.

      "I know these countries called themselves socialist, but they all had a communist party".

      In general usage, the term "socialism" is used to describe systems where there is varying degrees of ruling elites controlling private/personal economic matters. The term "communism" tends to get used for the systems that are completely socialist (the ruling elites control and own everything, instead of just some).

      "There are plenty of of socialist gouvernments that function in a true democracy"

      Are you thinking of Sweden? Germany? Those countries are only a little more socialist than the US is. Even in these places, most private property remains in the hands of the people, instead of the state.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    18. Re:Corporations gaining power == fascism by krell · · Score: 1

      Fascism is at its core "a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism." (the dictionary definition).

      The definition does not mention corporations.

      "That may give you some pause next time you see all the 'campaign donations' that flow one way. What do you think flows the other way?"

      In my country, what flows from the government to the corporations? Volumes full of ever-burdensome regulations and punitive taxation.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  19. Propaganda in its own right... FUDD by pease1 · · Score: 1
    In the hurricane example, a local news reporter clips out quotes legit a news source from the PR supplied video and wraps her own stuff around it.

    This isn't any different then what happens every day in newspapers when reporters lift quotes from company press releases. If the reporter is worth a shit, they will add their own sources to it, but not their own spin. In some cases, this might be the only way to access a national level source who is difficult to reach, let alone film, especially with limit travel budget. But many, with the power in hand, will add their own spin. The lie occurs when the reporter does this, but doesn't disclose their own (or stations/newspapers) agenda.

    You can piss on Rush, Sean H., and the air america talkers all you want, but they fully disclose their agenda. The old main stream media hasn't realized this yet.

  20. Governments by camperdave · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Not only can the corporations bully the little guy, they can bully the Government. After all, some of these corporations are global in scale, and have economic resources that dwarf those of many countries. I think that's why Microsoft only got a slap on the wrist in their anti-monopoly case aa while back.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:Governments by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      No Microsoft got a slap on the wrist because you had an election at the end of the trial, and the nature of the US elections requires massive amount of money which Microsoft had.

      They didn't have to bully anyone, the bought their way out.

    2. Re:Governments by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 1

      Well, keep in mind that for whatever legislation these corporations are supposedly buying, if it doesn't have significant support to begin with, some bright upstart politician can knock the incumbent out of office simply by campaigning to undo it.

      For example, I hear people complain about corporate welfare, farm subsidies, and protectionist tariffs as exampels of corporate influence. But government "aid to business", farm subsidies, and protectionism are popular!!!!

      If it's corruption, it's corruption by engraved invitation.

    3. Re:Governments by Phoenix666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am an ardent populist and progressive (in the T.R. sense of the word) who's worked at a lot of big corporations in New York. I have to say that looking from the inside and having access to the other side of the table, corporations are not quite the monolith that popular wisdom believes. Every brand, product, and campaign I've ever seen they live in constant fear of angry consumers suing them.

      Sure, a $5 million judgement might not mean much to a company the size of GE on the whole, but if your brand or departmental budget is $4 million/yr you better believe the bean counters will be pissed if your fuck-up costs the company more than your budget. It's true that GE will continue, but you the brand manager almost certainly will not. So it's the individual interest that drives corporate behavior in reality.

      Not to mention that most people who work in big corporations are reasonably honest people. Everyone tends to think that evil unscrupulous people rise to the top, but they very largely don't because that is the sort of behavior that winds up getting the corporation sued. The people who rise to the top are clever politicians, but that's another discussion.

      In sum, you and we the consumers have so much more power than we think. And even just writing an angry letter does make a difference, because I guarantee you it will get read.

      --
      Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
    4. Re:Governments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But...but...corporations are evil!

    5. Re:Governments by krell · · Score: 1

      "In sum, you and we the consumers have so much more power than we think."

      Exactly. A corporation that does not serve the public interest gets in big trouble from the public. Government is much less accountable: harder to sue. Also if you refuse to deal with government, it can result in someone coming with a gun and killing you. This won't happen if you refuse to deal with Microsoft or GM.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  21. national debt anyone? by deevnil · · Score: 2, Funny
    Build up a large credit card bill and you can find out yourself. It's only when you have no money that you realise how powerless poverty makes you.
    You mean like the national debt?
  22. That can't be by tade · · Score: 1

    No way! News are good. Like that important piece of nerd news that you can now see corporate logos from space. (though it was still a bit unclear if they have a drive in lane in the orbit)

  23. Those people are wingnut morons! by Voltar · · Score: 0

    Those Workers World Party mouthpieces over there in their little firehouse do nothing but pass wingnut conspiracy theories as news. Their biggest story? Dick Cheney flew two cargo planes (armed with military pods) into the twin towers while surrounded by Jewish bankers in the sub-basement of the NYSE, after which the CIA detonated explosives which were planted two days prior during a mysterious fire drill. The freemasons then stole all of the gold from the WTC vaults so as to further fund their worldwide domination. Other great feats of DN/WBAI? Accusing Rudy Guliani of trying to keep WBAI shut down after 9/11 due to the dust. Afterwards they bitched 24/7 about letting them in too soon and not doing an environmental impact study and endangering their lives. Sneaking on to the NYSE floor during an invitation-only party and harassing guests. Actively supporting dictators like Kim Jong Il. Bantering as nausium about Islam is so wonderful and peaceful and misunderstood...I have yet to see Jews and Christians fly planes into large buildings, though. Let the flames begin!

    1. Re:Those people are wingnut morons! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, news media outlets are not broadcasting corporate propaganda pieces put together by corporations and the FCC is also lying about it?

      I'm sure you did intend to address the topic at hand, right?

  24. They teach it in schools... by Erwos · · Score: 1

    When I was in college, I had a part time job as a classroom tech. You see, we had fancy, computerized classrooms that the profs really weren't trained to use. When they ran into issues, I had to help them.

    One of the classes I did this for was a sophmore or junior level public relations class. The technique of handing the news something that looks like a news video, but is really just a corporate press release, was explicitly covered in this class. Not only was it covered, but it was encouraged as a legitimate and smart method of getting the word out.

    In other words, the underlying problem might not just be corporate greed, or the laziness of news organizations - it could be that this kind of public relations is still being taught as appropriate in schools. Time to beef up the ethics training in the college of communications?

    --
    Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
  25. Watch: Network (1977) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... and when you're done with that, maybe you'll remember that all TV News is Television first. That's why we don't call it News TV.

  26. A New Study!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank God! Now, we know the truth.

  27. Care less by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
    I don't really care if they air these VNRs as long as they have something like a box onscreen at all times throughout it identifying it as an advertisement so I know I should change the channel. And that CERTAINLY needs to be displayed at the beginning, but I'm more of a fan of making it illegal to not show it during the entire length because if someone starts watching in the middle of it they'd have no idea it was paid for.

    This is something that happens in print too with advertorials. Recently in PC Gamer there was a huge section in there about cellphone games. I'm in advertising, and thus have pretty finely honed ad senses so I could tell pretty quickly it was sponsored by Cingular, but the section was HUGE, and the ONLY indication I had of this was the TINY TINY black text on dark background on the very front page that said "ADVERTISEMENT". Absolutely disgusting.

    If you find this sort of crap on TV or in print, feel free to call the station/publisher and let them know your feelings about being misled by their content and explain how you are going to be perusing their competitors media instead.

    --
    Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
  28. If only it were just T.V. by bealzabobs_youruncle · · Score: 1
    Product placement in the movies, advertising within video game, every public gathering space smeared with corporate logos; there is no limit to what corporations have bought their way in to.

    Up until election day last week the company that employs me sent emails every day to advise me on how I should vote to best impact the company's wishes. Every fall I endure coercion to give to United Way, including a meeting for those of us who opt out getting a special "sit down" to help us understand why it is important. Every spring I am "encouraged" to participate in the company sponsored "walk for this" or "pledge for that". Note that company policy strictly prohibits me from visiting political web sites, handing out political infromation, engaging in excessive political/social/religious debate or soliciting for any charity on company time or property.

    I can no longer refuse company provided health insurance without providing written proof that I get some coverage from my spouses employer? Alcohol is now banned from the company "holiday" party because the company wants to shield itself from any risk, and of course protect our health as well.

    Some of you will ask why I stay; simple answer, the pay check is fat and the work somewhat engaging. If either of those change, I am out of here, but for the time being... After 20 years of working I have come to the conclusion that all large companies act like this, and while some idealist will pop in and tell me to go work for a small company; mega-corp is where the money is for the most part.

    I wish T.V. was the only problem....

    1. Re:If only it were just T.V. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What the hell of a company is that? Screw money, my company will not tell me what to do, think, speak out or act for or against in my spare time.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:If only it were just T.V. by bealzabobs_youruncle · · Score: 1

      I think you find it more common than not in very large companies...

    3. Re:If only it were just T.V. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Reminds me why I hated working for one. And why I'll never return to them.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  29. Sounds like a cue for a song by Bastard+of+Subhumani · · Score: 0

    # Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose...

    --
    Only three things are certain; death, taxes, and apocryphal quotations - Ben Franklin.
  30. Something to consider by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This organization calls itself "Democracy Now!" yet fawns over Fidel Castro as if he really were leading a democratic government.

    1. Re:Something to consider by ThePhilips · · Score: 1

      From my reading of the site, it is strongly American. IOW, why do you care what happens on some not-so-distant island?

      Cuba has one of the top health systems in the world. They have low crime level. Well, they do not have democracy. But, you know, many people would exchange the populism of democracy to sane and stable dictatorship.

      One of the top promises of democracy (and advantage over monarchy/feudalism) is that government is rotated, thus minimizing probability of crazy reaching (and holding for too long) power. But let be realistic. Dictatorship Cuba has prospering social system and doesn't initiate and doesn't intervene in international conflicts. But all the populism and democracy didn't stopped US from becoming empire and top world aggressor.

      To me as foreigner Cuba looks more peaceful and friendly place, than business crazy, litigious, war-minded USA.

      --
      All hope abandon ye who enter here.
    2. Re:Something to consider by krell · · Score: 1

      "Cuba has one of the top health systems in the world."

      Does this include the fact that they treat being infected with HIV as criminal justice matter (go to prison)? Their system is also not "one of the top", being mere 40 out of 190. That's the upper 1/4, but not tops. You have to wonder about it being ranked that high. It is ahead of New Zealand.... however, can you find one person who would rather go to a Cuban hospital than go to one in New Zealand? There's also the matter of how the Cuban government, since it controls everything and limits access to investigators, has great leaway to make up fake numbers to make things look better than it is.

      "They have low crime level."

      That's what you can get in a police state/dictatorship. The crime level is similarly low in North Korea.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    3. Re:Something to consider by krell · · Score: 1

      "Dictatorship Cuba has prospering social system and doesn't initiate and doesn't intervene in international conflicts."

      They have a real bad record of this, actually. They intervened in Nicaragua and caused a war there during the 1980s that killed tens of thousands. Similar in El Salvador. Angola in Africa fought to free itself from a European colonial power: Cuba intervened against Angola. Currently, they are backing fascist movements in Colombia and Venezuela.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    4. Re:Something to consider by ferd_farkle · · Score: 1

      While I'm no fan of 'Democracy Now' (silly antediluvian gits), I read the piece, and, uh, where's the fawning?
      Where's the relevance to corporate Video News Releases masquerading as news?
      Why isn't this modded Utterly Offtopic?

    5. Re:Something to consider by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 1

      Oh for fuck's sake, the US government was universally condemned for ITS intervention in Nicaragua. IIRC the world court ordered them to pay reparation to Nicaragua, and not Cuba!!!

    6. Re:Something to consider by OakDragon · · Score: 1
      Cuba has one of the top health systems in the world.

      How do we know this?

      But, you know, many people would exchange the populism of democracy to sane and stable dictatorship.

      Define 'many.' One thing you will notice is that very, very few people get in boats and land on Cuban shores. (Well, willingly - there's Gitmo.)

    7. Re:Something to consider by krell · · Score: 1

      That's a great reason why "world" kangaroo courts are worthless.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    8. Re:Something to consider by dedazo · · Score: 1
      But, you know, many people would exchange the populism of democracy to sane and stable dictatorship.

      Really? Would you? Because the dear leader said so?

      I don't know about you but I'd rather die on some dark back alley due to lack of healthcare than live "happily" under the thumb of some megalomaniac who operates like the good old enlightened tirants of the middle ages and has life-or-death power over my person.

      Holy crap, I cannot fathom the thought process that generates ignorant comments like yours. I guess we need another massive world war with 50M+ dead to remind us how expensive freedom is.

      --
      Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
  31. We're misdirecting our focus. by serial_crusher · · Score: 1

    The part we should be truly offended about is that this sort of thing works. People watch their local news, and say "gee, if Asian Reporter Trisha Takinowa says global warming is horseshit, it must be!" I don't see anything wrong with bias in the news, so long as all the facts are presented.

  32. Re:Propaganda in its own right... FUDD by Rhett's+Dad · · Score: 1

    Hear! Hear! Doesn't anyone remember " Mad City " from '97?

    --
    Let me introduce you to my very own DMCA-protected encryption key: BC 1B 64 4A 8D DE 49 E8 C3 7D CC EE 1A AD EE
  33. Even more insidious by Ferment · · Score: 1

    Even more insidious is the media's tenancy to state as fact corporate assertions. Its worse because I believe it is much easier for JQP to swallow these whole. For example, in how many newscasts have you heard something like "the music industry lost 8 bajillion dollars to piracy last year.", with no mention of how everyone and his brother outside of the music industry disputed that claim.

    --
    A passion for apathy.
  34. Way to go, Captain Obvious! by blueZ3 · · Score: 1

    Work that anti-business /. meme for fun and karma!

    Hot on the heels of telling us these things are shown by "News Corp., Tribune, and Disney," Captain Obvious wants us to know that they're paid for by "the country's biggest corporations." Whoa. No kidding, Sherlock. What next? Water Wet, film at 11:00?

    The only people with money to produce this crap are big corporations. It's pretty unlikely that Joe's Pizza is going to be able to pay for an advertisement disguised as a hard-hitting news story on the benefits of eating pepperoni. It's equally unlikely that big business is going to spend tens of thousands of dollars on these things and then air them on Public Access Channel 9.

    I swear that the stories here are getting more and more like tabloid articles written by four-year-olds after one too many servings of Chocolate Frosted Sugar Bombs. I suppose that with my high UID, I shouldn't be complaining about the decline and fall of slashdot, but it's hard to resist when stories like this are "news for nerds"

    --
    Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
    1. Re:Way to go, Captain Obvious! by Kohath · · Score: 1

      It's not slashdot's fault. It's because "news" == "opinion with a few supporting factoids" now. So "news for nerds" has become "information supporting the editors' politics". The nature of "news" has changed forever.

      You're supposed to agree that it's bad that corporations get to portray their point of view as news, BTW. At the same time, you're supposed to agree that it's good for left-wing activists to portray their point of view as news. If you don't, you're evil or ignorant (because you don't read the right "news") or stupid or on the payroll of one of these hated corporations.

      Thinking for yourself is called Flamebait, and will be modded down accordingly. So just don't do it. Hate the people they tell you to hate and say the same things in your posts as everyone else.

  35. Capitalism vs Democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not to start a huge flame war but I think this raises the issue of how modern capitalism which is reflected in the institution of the Corporation has an impact on modern democracies.

    The Corporation as an institution focuses on one thing; to benefit itself (profit). The classical theorists would argue that making a profit in the free market would coincide with the common good. However the idealized free market is not a real world example and in real world examples we find a "clustering" effect where economic power becomes consolidated with a very few. Therefore they act only to benefit a select minority.

    Democracy in its modern form via representative governments has basically three basic premises; transparency of government, accountability of the government and the equal protection of the rights of all citizens. The role of the government is to provide for its citizens solutions through policy over matters of importance to its citizenry. But also to protect the rights of minorities over the majority.

    In these two structures we have two very distributions of power. In the Corporation power is held by the top percentile. In Democracy power is distributed more cleanly, representatives and government officials wield more power by the nature of their office however they are bound by the rule of law. Also in a functioning democracy these officials are never in power for too long and are accountable to the public (elections). The basic incongruence of these power structures, the Corporation and the Democratic State, leads to a conflict.

  36. "Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

    They also love the fascist dictator of Venezuela, and their coverage of the Middle East is downright antisemitic.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
    1. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not agreeing with Israeli policy is not "anti semitic".

    2. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typically, hatred of Israel is based in antisemitism. "Democracy Now" was rather one-sided in their coverage of Lebanon's invasion of Israel a few months ago.

    3. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by meadowsp · · Score: 1

      Lebanon's invasion of Isreal? Sure you've got that the right way round?

    4. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      "Lebanon's invasion of Isreal? Sure you've got that the right way round?"

      Lebanon invaded Israel and kidnapped two Israelis. This started that war that happened earlier this year. Israel struck back. How were you not aware of this?

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    5. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1
      They also love the fascist dictator of Venezuela, and their coverage of the Middle East is downright antisemitic


      Good grief, you're stupid! Chavez was elected by about 80% of Venezualans, which is far, far more than the current US "president". Disagreeing with the US does not make one a "fascist dictator". And, as others have pointed out, opposition to the Israeli governments Middle East policy is not anti-Semitic. And, just so you might hopefully get the point, disagreeing with "President" Bush does not make one anti-American either.

    6. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 1

      Can you explain to me how a democratically elected president (as confirmed by president Carter himself) is a dictator? Oh, that's right, Carter is a tool of the evil socialist plot.

      As for the antisemitism bullshit part ... did you know that Amy Goodman (Democracy Now's anchor) is jewish? Oh right, she's a self-hating jew just like Chomsky ... riiight.

    7. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      "Disagreeing with the US does not make one a "fascist dictator".

      No, but being a fascist dictator does the trick for Chavez. Disagreement with the US (he even said he wanted to "bury" the United States!) does not make one a dictator, however. I never claimed it did. Chavez was elected with 80% so he is not a dictator? Saddam Hussein was always elected with 100%, so that made him even more democratic using your defend-the-dictator logic. "Good grief, you are stupid"

      The hatred of Israel (which is mostly based in good old fashioned antisemitism) is another issue.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    8. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      "Can you explain to me how a democratically elected president (as confirmed by president Carter himself) is a dictator?"

      Here is one good place. Democracy is rather shaky in Venezuela now that there are laws in place demanding jail terms for those who vocalize criticism if the dictator. "Evil socialist"? The terms are kind of redundant. However, all Carter did was verify that the vote counting was fair. This does not stop Chavez from rigging the elections in other ways to further fascism and thwart democracy.

      "As for the antisemitism bullshit part"

      Yes, "Democracy Now" does give vent to antisemitic bullshit. You are right, however, pointing out the self-hating Jew part. Chomsky is also quite antisemitic, but his hate goes way beyond that. Chomsky is one of those who gave "intellectual" arguments supporting Pol Pot's Killing Fields. I really don't care whether Goodman and Chomsky are Jewish or not. That does not change their pro-fascist, anti-semitic, hateful views. Antisemitism at "Democracy Now" is quite apparent when they downplayed Chavez' speech from about a year ago when the dictator blamed Jews for all the evil of the past 2000 years.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    9. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by Nicolas+MONNET · · Score: 1

      "I really don't care whether Goodman and Chomsky are Jewish or not. "

      Of course you don't care, since it makes your assertion completely ridiculous. If you'd care, you would'nt make it.

    10. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      "Of course you don't care, since it makes your assertion completely ridiculous."

      No, it doesn't. There are plenty of Jewish people who are willing to shrug off or even support antisemitism, just as "hate my own race" racists are found in other ethnic groups. This does not change my assertion at all. I really don't care what their ethnic group is: I just care about the hatred they support.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    11. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1
      Unlike the Hussein's "election" (gee, you really know how to throw out irrellevant bullshit, don't you?), the 2000 election in Venezuela had more than one candidate, namely Chavez and Arias. 60% of Venezuelans voted for Chavez and 38% voted for Arias. Now, Chavez has about an 80% approval rating (unlike Bush who is in the 30's). Your little right-wing site does not alter this fact.


      And no, disapproval of the policies of the Israeli government does not equal anti-Semitism. I notice you so conveniently tried to alter that to "hatred of Israel". You are clearly a dishonest shill.

    12. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lebanon invaded Israel and kidnapped two Israelis. This started that war that happened earlier this year. Israel struck back. How were you not aware of this?

      Also, Israel has invaded several countries including France, Italy, and Norway; Saudi Arabia committed the largest terrorist attack on US soil several years ago; Great Britain attempted a coup in Equatorial Guinea recently.

      No? Aw, come on, I want to use this sort of twisted logic too...

    13. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      Saudi Arabia did not commit any attack. Al Queda is illegal there as well. There is nothing "twisted" to know that Lebanon invaded Israel earlier this year. In the late 1960s, the government of Lebanon signed a decree allowing groups such as Hezbollah to operate in Lebanon as long as the groups were working to exterminate Israelis. The government of Lebanon never rescinded this decree. Hesbollah has been doing what the government of Lebanon wants it to do. In addition, the Lebanese government officially does not believe that Israelis have the right to exist: any aggression by Lebanon against Israel is just fulfulling this pro-genocide policy.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    14. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by jafac · · Score: 1

      My criticism of Israel is based on love of Liberty.
      While it's true that Israel is very free (for Israeli citizens) compared to many other middle eastern countries - they're way behind the US in many areas (like Family Law), and their foreign policy and security practices suck. Let's just say I'm really glad I don't live in a country within 1000 miles of Israel.

      Jews? Jewish people? Who cares? - it's a culture. The culture has very little to do with the fascist policies of the Zionist movement. In fact, I know a lot of Americans of Jewish heritage who agree with me on the policies of Israel.

      Bottom line is - I really will not put up with the McCarthyish character assassination of blaming all criticism of Israel on "antisemitism" - - there IS antisemitism out there. But it's a logical fallacy to assume all criticism of Israel is driven by it. It's not just a logical fallacy, it's fucking insulting, and in many cases, it's an accusation made specifically to silence legitimate criticism.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    15. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by jafac · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Never mind the air strike on a Lebanese family picnicing on the beach.

      Hostilities on both sides had been building for weeks. The enablers and excuse-makers in the US media pretended that the breakout of open war was a surprise - - "nobody could have predicted that. . . " (where have we heard that before?).

      When two powers want to go to war, they rattle sabers, build tensions, and stage incidents. It's rarely the case that any attack is completely unprovoked. Even the US expected Japan to attack before Pearl Harbor - because the US was embargoing Japan's oil supply. Does not make Japan's surprise attack right - but you certainly can't blame the whole war on that one incident. It's a childish and ill-informed position to take. But dishonestly taking such a position is very useful, when you're trying to justify barbarism.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    16. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by jafac · · Score: 1

      Saddam Hussein was always elected with 100%

      Saddam Hussein controlled and supressed opposition parties in his country, and manipulated the press.

      (Just like we do in the US.)

      That's what made him a fascist dictator, despite the elections.
      Fuck, even the Soviets had elections.
      Even crazy-as-fuck Ahmadinijad was democratically elected.

      That's the whole point of this Bush thing.
      If you don't respect Liberties, even under a contrived "war" (ie. "The bill of rights isn't a suicide pact!") then you're a fascist dictator. Tampering with the democratic process turns it into nothing more than a jingoistic slogan.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    17. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      "That's the whole point of this Bush thing."

      We were talking about the fascist dictator of Venezuela. If you want to talk about Bush as a fascist dictator, feel free to start another conversation item. You can even include your "tampering with the democratic process" claim which (in your case) is typically a sour grapes thing used when your side fails to get enough people to want to vote for it. I've seen a few Republicans make the same sort of sour grapes claim about Democrats cheating to win Congress last week: but like with the Democrats who could not accept that Bush won elections, it is all sore losers who don't respect democracy when it does not go their way.

      "even under a contrived "war"

      The conflict you are probably referring to meets the definition of war. The contrived and the quotes thing make you look ignorant: as if you think that there are no troops, no battles and no conflicts in Iraq. If there were, there'd be a war, no quote marks necessary, right?

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    18. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      "The culture has very little to do with the fascist policies of the Zionist movement."

      You say "Jewish people? Who cares?" And then you bring up the "Zionist" boogeyman: a favorite resort of antisemites everywhere. That is a very common antisemitic code-word. There's nothing McCarthyist about pointing out this fact. There is antisemitism out there, alright.(Never mind that you use the word "Fascist" without any regard to its meaning).

      " it's an accusation made specifically to silence legitimate criticism.

      No, it's just pointing out facts. Irrational hatred of Israel is not "legitimate", however feel free to vent your ignorance and hatred. If I had mod points, I would not mod you down. There is no "specifically to silence" here.

      "it's a logical fallacy to assume all criticism of Israel is driven by it."

      That is a bogus straw-man. All criticism of Israel is not directed by anti-semitism. Only those who question the Israelis very right to exist (and the right to defend themselves and fight back if invaded: as when Lebanon invaded Israel earlier this year) step over the line into antisemitism. So, even if you showed some legitimate criticism, there'd be no attempt to silence it.

      "My criticism of Israel is based on love of Liberty."

      A love that won't be served until those scum are wiped off the map, right? How dare they fight back in an attempt to get Lebanon to call off its aggression. The Lebanese government is one of those that does not recognize the rights of Israelis to even eixst.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    19. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      "Yeah. Never mind the air strike on a Lebanese family picnicing on the beach"

      Chalk it down to a successful effort by Hesbollah to turn Lebanon into a war zone and to use civilians as human shields. Imagine all the bad things that would not have happened if Lebanon and not invaded Israel.

      "The enablers and excuse-makers in the US media"

      I sense a careful dancing around code-words here. Tempted, you are, to tell us "who owns the media", right? Anything to justify the barbarism of the unreasoned and unprovoked aggression by Israel's neighbors.

      "but you certainly can't blame the whole war on that one incident. It's a childish and ill-informed position to take"

      You have a good point. It would be childish to blame it on that one incident. There are, in fact, many years of entirely unprovoked aggression against Israel by Lebanon. Not surprising: Israel has always supported the right of the Lebanese to live, but Lebanon does not recognize the rights of the Israelis to exist. Israel at times gets fed up with the constant one-way attacks and decides to retaliate every once in a while. It's only reasonable. Nobody would criticize such actions unless they have some sort of illogical reason to hate the country that keeps getting attacked and finally decides to fight back.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    20. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by meadowsp · · Score: 1

      According to Wikipedia Hezbullah was formed in 1982 in the war where Isreal invaded Lebanon. Provide sources for your apparent decree in the 60's to do with Hezbullah.

    21. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      Interestingly misleading. Never mention that Lebanon invaded Israel repeatedly, forcing Israel to retaliate? Hint: there were other terrorist groups located in Lebanon, operating with approval from the Lebanese government, before Iran created its Hesbollah army.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    22. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by jafac · · Score: 1

      That's bullshit. I never once questioned Israel's right to exist. I don't even question their (or anyone's) right to legitimate self-defense. However - there is a responsibility in how one defends one's self, particularly when there is an overwhelming strategic advantage, as is the case here with Israel vs. Lebanon, or Israel vs. Palestine. Just because scumbag Hezbollah leaders use civilians as shields, does not make it okay for Israel to target civilians. In particular, to use a recent example, Israel's use of cluster munitions to effectively mine southern Lebanon is particularly vile. The mines will not discourage Hezbollah, but they will kill and maim innocent civilians for the next 10 years.

      If Israel has a problem with Hezbollah's tactics, then they should file a formal complaint with the UN, get these leaders arrested, and tried at the Hague for crimes against humanity. They don't do this, because having these enemies gives them an excuse to act dispicably themselves.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    23. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      "If Israel has a problem with Hezbollah's tactics, then they should file a formal complaint with the UN"

      And then the UN can protect Israel the same way it protected Srebrenica.

      "and tried at the Hague for crimes against humanity"

      If you can call a years-long travesty in which the accused die of old age in their cells a "trial"....

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
    24. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by jafac · · Score: 1

      So - it's not even worth it to TRY Rule-of-law? givingup on civilization already?

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    25. Re:"Democracy Now" is really Democracy? No! by krell · · Score: 1

      What the UN did at Srbenica did not advance civilization. A trial so badly run that the accused died in a cell in between court sessions years after the trial started is not justice.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  37. Thank You TASS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would like to thank ITAR-TASS for bringing this to our attention. This will help me separate the news from the capitolist propoganda. Long live comrade Stalin!!!

  38. That's Why Streaming Video Is So Important by cannuck · · Score: 0

    That's what video is so important on the Web. The Elite and their puppets (Rove, Bush et al) love....love to spin that the media is control by the Democrats - or controlled by the so-called Left (which of course doesn't exist (more spin)) but all the while, the Elite dominate all the media, everywhere. And brain wash millions ...... 50 million or so in the last election in the USA

    And it's now so obvious that the Elite are spreading their bullshit onto the Web - with it's "Pay For Say" web sites - 1000s and 1000s of web sites.

    What's even worse is Web users who believe everything they see on the Web - when folks here start quoting Wikipeeedia - then I know "we" are all in deep shit.

    I don't know whethet to laugh and cry when I hear all over the Web - for example - from web site producers who think that movies or video on the Web - means animating magazine pages (to make them load as slow as possible!?). These same schlock site makers more often than not, then start yacking that "we" don't need more television on the Web because "we" have 1000s of channels to watch on regular TV...blah blah blah. Of course these web site killers all crapped in their pants when YouTube sold for 1.5 billion.Too bad YouTube uses Flash - which sucks...sucks badly. More schlock.

    Band width needs to be preserved for true streaming of video on the Web. All web pages that simply use Flash to make magazine pages wiggle - needs to be banned! If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video must be worth millions of words. Even the dumb assed Fascist Republicans understand that.

  39. Don't buy this... by Phat_Tony · · Score: 1

    Corporate propaganda isnt' really still in the news. The giant anti-corporate propaganda industry produced and planted this story, and duped news outlets are reporting it. It's entirely untrue that any news outlet would run a story that was pla... nt... oh, wait... Darn.

    --
    Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
  40. Is this any diffrent? by Dissman · · Score: 1

    Honestly, is this any different than a press release? I mean seriously, when i submit a press release on a slow news day, i can expect to find some to most of it copied verbatim into a news story the same day. Is this really any diffrent?

    Also, what about places like CNN who *pay* al-queida for propaganda tapes and then air them? Why is this kind of thing OK to groups like Democracy Now? May that be against their political interests? hmm.

  41. News for ratings, not for information by eclectic4 · · Score: 1

    ...which is why I listen to PRI/NPR. I would be overwhelmed with shock to see hour blocks devoted to true discussion of important topics by leaders in their field on both sides of a story on FOX, or CNN (don't get me started on the utter slop that is nightly local news). In between these discussions they report news via BBC WorldWide, which is one of the most respected, public driven news outlets on the planet.

    I watch FOX on occasion for pure enjoyment in exercise. I can talk about all the things flashing on the screen for hours. It's quite fun. I love John Stewart's take on it...

    --

    "The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin
    1. Re:News for ratings, not for information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Sorry, but if you watch/listen closely, NPR has the same problem. Just because they spend 5 minutes on an issue instead of 50 seconds, doesn't mean they do this as well. They use PR FUDD. They all do it. NPR has seen budget, staff and travel cuts. Running a quality news organization is expensive. Using PR stuff is a way to save time and money.

      I once had a Journalism professor exclaim "All PR people are WHORES. WHORES. You use their stuff, you are just fucking a whore." But asked if HE had ever done it, the answer was "Yes, of course, but the trick is not to catch anything".

      The power of the new media and bloggers is the leverage of many eyeballs, and massive, cross disapline experience in a near realtime environment.

  42. So, what's the difference between this... by stankulp · · Score: 1

    ...and DNC talking points being presented as news?

    --
    We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
    1. Re:So, what's the difference between this... by Kohath · · Score: 1

      Hello? The DNC is good and corporations are evil. Don't you watch the news?

  43. "The media".... not corporations? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The media, at least mass media, are by their very definition and size required to be corporations by themselves. The difference to "normal" corporations is that the goods they sell are information.

    Or opinion.

    In a democracy, you cannot rule against the people. Or so you're told in school. Actually, you cannot rule against the public opinion. If that opinion is based on information and facts, and people finding their own opinions, this is actually a good thing.

    That's not the reality today, though.

    Public opinion is made and shaped by the media. You're told what you're supposed to hear, you're shown what you're supposed to see and more often than not, you're also told what you're supposed to think and believe because "that's the public opinion". To support it you often get to see some statistics that make the statistician in me cringe, because you can see easily how crooked they are sometimes.

    And hey, if "the people" believe that, how can it be wrong? 10000 say yes, you say no, now who's more likely wrong? You? Or 10000 others?

    There's a carefully crafted and delicate balance of power (and money) between government, corporations and media (corporations). You, the voter, don't matter anymore. You're being shifted around and moved, statistically dissected and examined to see what spin would make you vote this or the other way.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:"The media".... not corporations? by ultranova · · Score: 1

      In a democracy, you cannot rule against the people. Or so you're told in school. Actually, you cannot rule against the public opinion.

      Sure you can. You just need to have a red herring to turn everyone's attention away while doing so. That, or you need to lie really well.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    2. Re:"The media".... not corporations? by pnuema · · Score: 1
      The media, at least mass media, are by their very definition and size required to be corporations by themselves. The difference to "normal" corporations is that the goods they sell are information.

      Bzzzt. Incorrect. The goods they sell are eyeballs. Your eyeballs on ads. Never forget that when it comes to mass media you are the product. That's why Britney and K-Fed are on the front page of CNN - because you will look.

    3. Re:"The media".... not corporations? by evilviper · · Score: 1
      There's a carefully crafted and delicate balance of power (and money) between government, corporations and media (corporations). You, the voter, don't matter anymore.

      Right. The voters don't matter anymore, as they proved in the mid-term elections a week ago...

      Unless you want me to believe the corporations for some reason I can't imagine, WANTED democrats to come into power.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    4. Re:"The media".... not corporations? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      This would imply that the "news" aren't paid for ads. Think 'bout it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:"The media".... not corporations? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Unless you can show me in what way exactly the Democrats are any different from the Republicans, I want a change in the system.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:"The media".... not corporations? by krell · · Score: 1

      Which of the dozens of policy differences between Democrats and Republicans do you want us to mention?

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  44. No Difference by roster238 · · Score: 1

    The fact is that all news is slanted to the view point of the presenter. Liberals may not notice as much because 80% of the news is slanted their way. Until Fox news came along it was closer to 100%. Everyone should be free to hear the news from their political perspective, with 80% of the new remaining Liberal and about 50% of the people being on the liberal side of things look for Fox News' ratings to continue to climb.

    --
    I swear I didn't know it was loaded...
  45. Sheesh. The Pentagon uses this method all the time by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 2, Informative
    I remember a study from a year back which showed that upwards of 90% of 'news' reports from Iraq all came from Pentagon press releases and contained aboslutely no fact checking or anything resembling actual investigative journalism. "Is your war budget justified?" "Oh, yes! Really, it is! Just look at the news."


    -FL

  46. Please define 'we' by nietsch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You had to rescue those nations? How did you do that, go back in time? And now those nations have to pay tribute to you with support for all those other wars your country is diving in?
    Pardon me, but have you been drinking the nationalistic-flavoured Kool-aid? All people that fought in WW2 are retired or dead. The politicians that got you in that war are all dead. Do you think you somehow inherited some right over 'your' former allies?

    --
    This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
    1. Re:Please define 'we' by krell · · Score: 1

      "All people that fought in WW2 are retired or dead."

      Yes, the people in Europe have forgotten. Which must be the reason why they are ignorant enough to vote in socialists, even after that problem with German socialism in the mid 20th century.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  47. Subject by Legion303 · · Score: 1

    So when a local station did a "report" on Wal-Mart dropping the price of something or other to a quarter, that wasn't a real story? I feel so used.

    In any given 30-minute "news" timeslot I get maybe 5 seconds' worth of actual news between the weather, sports, and paid advertising that should be run during the scheduled commercial breaks. That 5 seconds consists of information I hadn't already found on the internet 2 days previously, and is more often than not celebrity gossip. "Oh, Brittney Spears got divorced. Nifty."

  48. So is Google a good, or bad baron? by mattgreen · · Score: 1

    Since so many willingly pledge allegiance to them, I thought I'd just throw that out there.

  49. What did you expect? by east+coast · · Score: 1

    When you have several 24 hour news stations and about 6 hours of news on local stations you're going to needs some filler. Basically my local evening news is a three hour loop of the same 15 minutes of stories. I'm sure there is stuff that should be reported that simply isn't but for the most part the local news covers little more than the front page headlines of the local paper. Maybe this waste of airtime would be better spent airing more Judge Judy but Joe Sixpack simply isn't going to watch coverage of a high school marching band competition for very long. They NEED to sensationalize a few key stories and keep repeating them. That's their only hope to fill airtime and still keep a viewers interest. It's a sad truth but it's still a truth. I think reports like these would be a bit more insightful (and appear less bias) if they fully covered the aspects the return of investment that "news" crews get for sending people all over the place looking for news versus companies and organizations that are willing to give their broadcast materials away for free for some airtime. It's cheaper than a commercial and people take more notice.

    Besides, press releases aren't news? You better tell that to the slashdot editors. Never mind the slashvertisement aspect of it all.

    --
    Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
  50. news flash: the media lies by davek · · Score: 1

    I RTFA, and the point of the article... is.... what? The media lies? Wow, now there's a news flash.

    Local stations can play all the propoganda they way and call it "news." That's their right. The evil creeps in when governments begin to _force_ stations to play propoganda as news.

    --
    6th Street Radio @ddombrowsky
  51. Corporate campaign contributions by Phoenix666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One common myth is that corporations pour millions and millions into a candidate's campaign coffers. But they don't and can't. FEC regulations limit donations from one individual or organization to a given candidate or elected official to $2500 in a calendar year. Neither can they give $2500 each to 100 employees on the understanding that they'll give the money to that candidate individually. If they get caught with a scheme like that, or even encouraging their employees to donate to the candidate, they will be in hot water and so will the candidate.

    That also goes for what the FEC calls "in-kind" donations, what is popularly called "soft" money. That is considered to be the same as giving them hard cash.

    What corporations can and do do is say to candidate X, "We sure love what you stand for, and are sorry we can't give you more. But do you have colleagues who believe as you do whom we could also support?" Then candidate X gets to cherry pick his/her supporters who are also in or seeking office, and the corporation gets to spread its money broadly.

    Nevertheless, the level of maximum contribution to a given candidate is low enough that we private citizens might conceivably match it. If you can go beyond that and do what the corporations do, you will get decent access to the candidate on par with what they have. I've seen it, especially on the local level. Doctors, Dentists, and lawyers, usually.

    The truth is that corporations really have more influence than John Q. Public because they maintain a relationship with officials and John doesn't bother. But he could.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
    1. Re:Corporate campaign contributions by ultranova · · Score: 1

      The truth is that corporations really have more influence than John Q. Public because they maintain a relationship with officials and John doesn't bother. But he could.

      Except that Joe Senator knows that Disney will be alive and willing to contribute the next year too, while Joe Average might not. Therefore, Disney makes a better master to serve.

      Besides, Disney is old, powerful and famous. Serving it allows Joe Senator to warm himself with that glow. Joe Public can offer no more money, and no glamour whatsoever, so why serve the commoners when you can serve a king ?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    2. Re:Corporate campaign contributions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we can't pour millions into a candidate. We can give the max to each candidate (on both sides) and then pour millions into each partys general election fund, give a large sum to various PAC's and other political entities that have no 'clear' connection to the candidate. And you don't think they know who bought them? I think they know us. Look at their voting record. They know us.

    3. Re:Corporate campaign contributions by Moofie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "The truth is that corporations really have more influence than John Q. Public because they maintain a relationship with officials and John doesn't bother. But he could."

      Sure, I could. In the same way that I could become a ninja, or climb Mt. Everest, or fly to the moon. It's not impossible.

      Lobbyists get paid by corporations to do nothing but influence legislators. I get paid to do my job. If I'm not doing my job, and I'm off attempting to get an appointment with legislators, I do not get paid.

      So, no, John Q. Public does not have the same access to legislative services as corporations do.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  52. Propagandist group complains about propaganda by cptnapalm · · Score: 1

    So a left wing propaganda group trying to pass itself off as non-partisan, which has a show on NPR which is mostly leftist propaganda passing itself off as news, is complaining about corporate propaganda being passed off as news?

    Please keep the references to pots referring to kettles as black to a reasonable volume.

  53. Law Firms Do It Also by ec_hack · · Score: 1

    It's not just large corporations that do it. I've seen VNRs and the like from law firms trolling for plaintiffs to join class action suits or to gin up sympathy for one of their cases in advance of jury selection.

  54. hmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Dr. William Gray, the famed Colorado State University hurricane predictor"

    I'm sure that colorado state is a fine institution and all, but shouldn't this be a tip that its fake? What the hell would an expert on hurricanes be doing in the middle of the country? Wouldn't he be at some institution on the east coast or in the gulf region?

    Next up, lets talk to the famed Southern Illinois marine biologist Dr. Ima B McFishy.

    1. Re:hmmm... by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      Uh, no.

      He knows about hurricanes.

      The first rule of hurricanes is "Don't live in a hurricane zone!"

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
  55. In other news... by mypalmike · · Score: 1

    Water is wet. Especially Dasani water, which has been shown to be 15% wetter than the leading brand. Dasani, from Coca Cola. Ain't nothing like the real thing.

    --
    There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
  56. Our Corporate Overlords - www.theyrule.net by Phrogman · · Score: 1

    This seems like a good opportunity to mention "They Rule" located here:

    They Rule

    Its a neat (flash based sadly) tool allowing you to identify which heads of various corporations are also heads of other corporations and see the web of power and influence they exert. I am sure these individuals don't think of themselves as the defacto government, but I think they are rapidly becoming it.

    The core evil to my mind, the main mistake, was in allowing a corporation to have legal status as a type of individual - a "corporate entity" as such. In this role it ends up having more rights than a citizen, and that makes it superior to a citizen in some sense.

    --
    "The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
  57. Do you burn books too? by krell · · Score: 0

    The anti-TV attitude represents the same sort of close-mindedness found in book burners. TV can't make anyone more stupid than books can.

    "Resist your corporate overlords!! "

    Oh. A tinfoil helmet nutjob? That must explain it. You'd better burn the books too: most of them are published by corporations. shudder.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
    1. Re:Do you burn books too? by laffer1 · · Score: 1

      I didn't throw out my TV, but I don't watch it often. If you stop watching television for a few months and then sit down one day and watch, you'll notice quite a few attempts at influence. I've been watching less and less television. When I do watch a show with my wife, I find the ads funny or confusing. I don't get some of the references because I missed the 4 previous ads to setup what its supposed to tell me.

      The other effect is that watching the news on television is painful. When they begin to show fake news, or start on a fluff story I just want to click on the next article! It seems like such a waste of time to watch the news. I don't like watching video clips on news sites either. By the time it gets through ads and their spin, I could have read 3 articles on 3 different sites about the topic instead.

      The downside to skipping on television is that everyone thinks something is wrong with you as you don't watch Lost or haven't seen desperate housewives. You sometimes miss references to "television events".

      Unlike the grandparent, I do still watch some television. I also watch old televison on DVD. It is not the medium but merely the poor content.

    2. Re:Do you burn books too? by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      This is why you:

      a) Get a PVR. I built a Myth setup, and I rarely watch commercials anymore.
      b) Don't want news on TV. Unless it's the BBC or CBC, it's just not worth the trouble.

  58. But somehow they have millions to spend? by nietsch · · Score: 1
    If they get caught with a scheme like that, or even encouraging their employees to donate to the candidate, they will be in hot water and so will the candidate.

    So, how many candidates get in that hot water with each election? If the motive is certainly there, but nobody is getting caught, then either your assumption (companies are motivated to buy political influence) is wrong, or the corruption happens but goes undetected.
    IMHO all political advertising in all media should be forbidden, there should be no ties between political parties/factions and the media. If a candidate can not spend his election money on ads, he might be less inclined to start smearing.
    Alas, one can dream... (or live in the Netherlands :)
    --
    This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
    1. Re:But somehow they have millions to spend? by krell · · Score: 1

      "IMHO all political advertising in all media should be forbidden"

      That is truly fascist and totalitarian. One of the cornerstones of free and progressive societies is the unfettered ability to speak out on political issues and candidates. Your idea is not new, or rare. In fact, it's downright medieval in nature and is also practiced by the worst modern societies. That's how they do it in North Korea (a nice completely socialist country, by the way).

      "If a candidate can not spend his election money on ads, he might be less inclined to start smearing"

      "Smear" being a subjective term for criticism someone does not like. How about this: if you don't like what someone says, ignore it?

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  59. Owners of the media, controlling the media by Oriumpor · · Score: 1

    Surprised? Media agencies are controlled by major politicos... why is it any surprise that their attitude is mimmicked by their creations?

    Is this any different from a Hamas member providing footage for Al Jazeera broadcasts, or an IDF provided video airing on Fox News?

    They'll air mass murderer's demands for retribution, hell even their savage decapitations. Knowing that, why is it a surprise they are also shills for corporate interests, as well as those who perpetrate acts of violence, all in a quest to increase ratings and to maintain corporate sponsorships?

    Corporations are formed to protect and increase wealth for their shared owners, they are in existence to make money. Positive press releases from "friendly" interests, IE those who have a say in their Advertising revenues, are obviously going to be spun in a positive light. While negative press releases will be buried unless they are impossible to avoid, or generate immense viewer interest.

    Negative, ala attack reports, will be spun negatively etc. It's quite simple. To maintain income they must appease sponsors and grab viewer attention, not report the news. So news is no longer important, and one could argue it hasn't been for quite a while.

    Of course corporate controlled media serves its feduciary interests...

  60. What a coincidence! by Cragen · · Score: 1

    Living in the DC area, these types of "TV Reports" are often pulled right off the fed. gov't Public Affairs Offices Announcements. These "announcement" are often "announcement softeners", it seems, as quite often new official policies are announced soon after such a "news report". Just as often, it seems, does some Congressional vote surface on the exact same subject right after such a gov't PAO report.

    These days, quite a few Dept.-level (Fed.) Public Affairs Offices have their own TV studios to create the filler used in these reports. I know FEMA/HSA does. Once the "news" is created, they then "broadcast" the availability to all TV stations, especially when a disaster has struck. Occasionally, they actually broadscast helpful info, but this is not their prime goal, that being information management.

    Cragen

  61. It happens in the print world, too. by SocialEngineer · · Score: 1

    I work at a newspaper, and we have a number of advertisers who send in out-of-house designed ads that look exactly like a news story (with a very tiny, faint "advertisement" notice). Usually they are for weight loss pills or crap like that.. We run them anyway, though. *sigh*

    --
    "Better to be vulgar than non-existent" -Bev Henson
  62. An Example by Telepathetic+Man · · Score: 1

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6147984.stm seems to be an innocent story, but guess who got it placed? My own company's UK subsidiary. An interesting story nonetheless for us geeks :)
     
    Wait, is this comment a slashvertisement?

    Oops

    --
    Just because you can, does not mean you should.
  63. Subliminal advertising has been debunked for ages by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tried and not true, you mean.

    http://www.snopes.com/business/hidden/popcorn.asp

    Subliminal advertising does not work. It may have a marginal effect that fades very rapidly, but it is much less effective than superliminal advertising, where people are actually aware of the message and will remember it. The only experiment in which it was reported to have Master of Puppets-like mind control effects was not only not reproduced by others who tried to replicate the results, the guy who did the study admitted later he made the whole thing up. (Technically he only admitted to making up the data, but that's more or less the same thing.)

  64. Of course they love him by krell · · Score: 1

    "Now, Chavez has about an 80% approval rating (unlike Bush who is in the 30's). "

    Of course Chavez is Loved by Millions. It is the law there. Also, the Dictator of the Month site is not "right wing". It is merely anti-dictator, and shows a marked lack of "wing" bias. Roughly half (or at least half?) of the dictators named are "right wing". If they had any sort of right-wing bias, they would have quietly left OFF the list Pinochet and Marcos and many others.

    As for Israel, I know that hatred of Israel is typically rooted in hatred of Jews. I'm honest enough to admit that. Honesty is not shilling. "Disapproval of the policies of the Israeli government" is a straw-man, typically a cover for rabid hatred of Israelis. A typical ludicrous belief that someone hides under mere "disapproval" is the idea that Israel has no right to fight back when attacked or invaded. It ranges from there on down to the belief that Israelis don't have a right to exist: a wish for genocide shared by countries ranging from Iran all the way to "moderate" Dubai.

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    Where were you when the voynix came?
  65. That's a good thing... by krell · · Score: 1

    "Can you even see city hall in most modern city skylines?"

    Not much in the free world. In places like the former USSR, you can find such places where government buildings towered over all. Legacies of the time when the supremacy of the leaders was most important (as opposed to supremacy of the people, which tends to encourage private skyscrapers).

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    Where were you when the voynix came?
  66. What's sickening about it? by krell · · Score: 1

    It's just free speech in action. If you don't like the articles and ads, just ignore them. It's nothing to get worked up about. I learned long ago not to easily get "sickened" that someone expresses views I might not agree with.

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    Where were you when the voynix came?
  67. whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dear Kettle,

    You're black.

    Sincerely,

    Pot

  68. VNRs are the definition of bullshit by M0b1u5 · · Score: 1

    VNRs are the very definition of "bullshit". That, and Direct-To-Consumer marketing by pharmaceutical companies ("Big Pharma") - which only the US and New Zealand allows BTW.

    Please read the hilarious, fascinating and yet disturbing book "Your Call Is Important To Us: the truth about Bullshit" by Laura Penny - it is most excellent and elucidating.

    --
    How many escape pods are there? "NONE,SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
    1. Re:VNRs are the definition of bullshit by krell · · Score: 1

      "which only the US and New Zealand allows BTW."
      Shouldn't the consumers have the choice here, and not governments? Hurrah for the US and New Zealand allowing more free speech than the countries that are too fascist to allow this. Geez, if you don't like the ads, ignore them. Problem solved.

      --
      Where were you when the voynix came?
  69. Funny - Corporate Propaganda being outed by... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... political propaganda!

  70. What part of ... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Let me be ... the first one to say DUH

    You got that right.

    What part of "News Release" don't they understand?

    When did the rules change so it was only "news" if a reporter pried it out of people as they kicked and screamed, tricked it out of them, or dug it out of their trash cans?

    When did the people operating corporations lose the same free-speech rights, and the expectation that news media would carry their voices when they had something interesting to say, that demonstrators and political candidates enjoy? (Or did THEY lose access to media attention, too?)

    If it's news there's no reason not to run it. If the PR operation did the work of making a video it's a cost savings for the broadcaster. And quoting verbatim rather than rephrasing increases the chance of getting it right.

    (NONE of which reduces the ethical obligation of the news operation to credit the source (rather than pass it off as their own work), to fact-check (especially if the claims are unreasonable), to present opposing views (if the subject is in dispute) and/or estimates of the credibility of the source, and to make editorial decisions on whether the material is right for their format and target audience.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:What part of ... by krell · · Score: 1

      "NONE of which reduces the ethical obligation of the news operation...."

      They don't have any such "obligations" in the list you gave. These are not conditions put on the free press or free speech in the Bill of Rights.

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      Where were you when the voynix came?
  71. It's All Propaganda by sycodon · · Score: 0

    Everything on the news is propaganda.

    Stories are selected by editors, who have their own agenda.

    Stories are reported by the correspondents, who also have their own agenda.

    Meaningless crap is hyped all evening urging you to tune in at 11 while truly important stories are never broadcast.

    It's all propaganda of someone with some viewpoint.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  72. You have a very strange interpretation of 'social' by nietsch · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but all those people that vote for socialist parties (I probably will next week) do not do so to help your 'elite' to get a gouvernment the way you describe. It could be that they all are being decieved, or it could be that you are just plain wrong?
    Socialism in my book is about the gouvernment behaving socially. Maybe your ideal is more like each man for himself?

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    This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
  73. Re:You have a very strange interpretation of 'soci by krell · · Score: 1

    "It could be that they all are being decieved"

    Probably, or they are ignorant of history. Tens of millions died as socialism was implimented in Central and Eastern Europe during much of the 20th century. There's also the element that the socialist parties in Western democracies. Even though they want to increase government oppression, are not really that socialist.

    "Socialism in my book is about the gouvernment behaving socially. Maybe your ideal is more like each man for himself?".

    It's always every man for himself. That's not an ideal, that's just how it is. Socialism is the proven best method for one man to get the most for himself at the expense of all of society. It appeals to the worst in people. As for a "book" definition of socialism, why not look at wikipedia first? It mentions greedy government control first: "As an economic system, socialism is often associated with state or community ownership of the means of production."

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    Where were you when the voynix came?